Richard Toronto and Geneva Hagen

[Randall]

This was a really enjoyable show; the kind that you can casually listen to without having to dig out an encyclopedia every 5 minutes. The futility of continuing to hammer on the doors of the government for answers, was a point by Gene that both I and the the dog in the background seemed to agree with ( or am I imagining the barking dog? ). Chris' point that even if the government did come clean there would still be skeptics who wouldn't take it at face value is a recurring theme of late. Without some verifiable and compelling evidence you could count me among those with the incredulous expression on my face. For example Paul Hellyer's statements don't amount to much more than what we already know, and if he'd come out and said his bit while still in the Government, it would still be as inconclusive as it is now.

I also think Chris is right about certain private research companies knowing some of the details because their role would likely be analytical. For example consider the testimony of Donna Hare. Much of her story sounds entirely plausible. But let's not forget where the evidence came from in the first place. The origin is still inside the military, particularly the United States AFSPC with the USAF, USN, and intelligence agencies in general serving as funnels and liaisons with allies. Anyone who studies this subject knows there's simply no way that those agencies don't have something to at least catalog the various incidents, even if guys like John Alexander try to tell us otherwise.

 

[pixelsmith]

It's uploaded now. So we should be OK, unless another segment got repeated later on.

It still repeats when I listen via iTunes

 

[Gene Steinberg]

It has to be downloaded again. The one you have is the one you have, and it may be the original.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Fabulous show. I have the an original copy of first appearance of the Shaver Mystery and it is hilarious and disorienting. I believe that Palmer appears in a photo in the same issue, dressed in military garb and calling himself by another name (pretending to be one of the authors of a story in the same pulp).

An example of how Shaver had some fantastic ideas was related on the Long John show: Supposedly there is a building in New York City that has an elevator in which, if you push the basement button a certain number of times , you can travel down into the land of the Deros.

I have an interesting book on outsider art that features Shaver's work.


Thanks,

Lance

Just listened to the show finally last night. Wow! BEST Paracast show I have listened to in a long time! Lance, the reason I quoted you is that I am hoping to grab your attention long enough to ask you for the title of the book with some of Shaver's work in it. I am a big fan of outsider art and people. As I listened to the show last night I was struck by the similarities to one of the most incredble outsiders of all time, Henry Darger.

What a show! I really am not blowing smoke here, but Gene really seemed within his element in that show. Another thing guys (Chris & Gene), man am I ever digging this little regroup that you guys have been doing at the beginning of the show. I'm serious, that's cool! It's like this editorial recap or something, and you know how these phenomena intersts go, it feels GREAT when anyone shares your hypothetical point of view. Lets just say Gene & Chris, we are right down the middle.

Rock On!

 

[Burnt State]

Also one of my favourite episodes for the colorful exposé of a unique part of early UFO culture. These two characters seem to embody a lot of what still takes place today: some people have creative, original, outsider ideas and someone else is there to market it and make money. The net effect is the larger socio-cultural developments: the first defining of the phenomenon for the masses is confabulation based on wild inspiration. While I'm fascinated by these cultural effects and their intriguing history, as defined by two iconoclasts found in Palmer and Shaver, you can also understand why the history of Ufology is interwoven with doubt, mockery and pure invention. It is in this space that the debunker and skeptic celebrates while the believer is left to hold onto evidence and tales that is slippery at best.

 

[SRL+]

Just catching up, as wondering if Toronto is going to return. He mentioned publishing another book. I started looking into Stanley Weinbaum, author of: “A Martian Odyssey”, and how Shaver and Palmer's writing may possibly relate to his.