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Rosemary Ellen Guiley
- Thread starter wwkirk
- Start date
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DaveM
Paranormal Adept
What I wanted to know was why Rosemary Ellen Guiley would want to rehash this subject. I would think the business with Phil Imbrogno would have left a bad taste in her mouth. I also wonder how different this book is compared to their joint venture. Amazon seems to be out of stock on her book so it makes comparing a little difficult.
The new book is just out, so it may be a few weeks before Amazon has them in stock.
Pararescueman
Skilled Investigator
I thought the show was just horrible. It was extremely difficult to sit though and listen. It made the commercials seem almost sane and sensible. I hardly ever post, but I just feel this was really,really bad. I failed to hear any criticism of the topic. It was just plain silly. Thought I was listening to C2C.
We gave you listeners an opportunity to ask your own questions. You had your chance. But it's also a matter of accepting the folklore, the claims, and the personal experiences -- or not. Unless or until you can capture a Djinn, how do you prove it?
Jeff Crowell
Paranormal Annoyance
To re-iterate what Gene's mentioned in this post, Mary Ellen is a folklorist. She gathers stories and attempts to develop similarities within those stories. She even mentions at least once in the interview that she's not a scientist and not attempting to prove the Djinn, or any element of the paranormal, within the confines of the scientific method. Take it as pretend or the power of myth if you wish, but I would recommend not getting offended by the interview. Keep it in perspective for what Mary Ellen is offering.
As far as her 'dropping the Djinn' pet theory after the Imbrogno business, well, how many UFO claims have been proven to be hoaxes themselves? Do we then drop all UFO research because of a few bad apples? Mary Ellen genuinely believes in the Djinn as being a sourcing for paranormal occurrences and she's not going to let the fraudulent claims of another person stop her in her own research. It's not like Imbrogno did all the research himself, faked it, and Guiley just supported it. No, she's done her own work and has her own confidence and faith in that, apart from Imbrogno's.
This isn't saying I'm supportive of the Djinn explanation for any paranormal phenomenon. In fact I'm rather skeptical, myself......regarding the Djinn or demonic/angelic interaction in any of these cases. But that's just my own humble opinion.
Peace.
J.
As far as her 'dropping the Djinn' pet theory after the Imbrogno business, well, how many UFO claims have been proven to be hoaxes themselves? Do we then drop all UFO research because of a few bad apples? Mary Ellen genuinely believes in the Djinn as being a sourcing for paranormal occurrences and she's not going to let the fraudulent claims of another person stop her in her own research. It's not like Imbrogno did all the research himself, faked it, and Guiley just supported it. No, she's done her own work and has her own confidence and faith in that, apart from Imbrogno's.
This isn't saying I'm supportive of the Djinn explanation for any paranormal phenomenon. In fact I'm rather skeptical, myself......regarding the Djinn or demonic/angelic interaction in any of these cases. But that's just my own humble opinion.
Peace.
J.
Muadib
Paranormal Adept
Two things, 1. Didn't she just jack this idea from Ann Druffel? I know that's been one of her whacky theories for years. 2. How is this any different than your typical religious POV that aliens are demons? What, it's different because these are the Islamic equivalent of demons? What good does it do us to label something with a label that we don't understand and that cannot be proven to exist? Seriously, the only information about these kinds of entities comes from books written by ignorant sheep herders thousands of years ago. What does this do to help the field of Ufology in other words? I know, I'm going to write a book and my new theory is that aliens are Snarks and Grumkins. What are Snarks and Grumkins? I don't know, but they're bad and they're from the spooky spirit world, so you can't prove if they exist or not, so my "theory" is basically unfalsifiable. There, I've solved the UFO mystery, can I be a speaker at the next big conference?
Tell that to millions of people who have this tradition today in the Near and Middle East. If you thought that was "extremely difficult to sit and listen," then what Paracast episode have you heard that you like? I dunno Gene... Rosemary is one of our most prolithic authors and a true expert on the many subjects within the so-called "paranormal." I guess you can't be all things for all people...sheesh
Sure, I'll bring the tomatoes and rotten fruit for everybody.
Ro stated several times that the djinn can't be thought of as a one-size-fits all theory. Don't forget: she has spent decades in the field investigating thousands of cases. She is a very astute investigator who comes by her opinions and knowledge by getting her hands dirty and doing the hard work of dealing w/ victims of unusual events and attempting to ascertain what operative forces may be involved. Its one thing to sit at your computer and cast judgement—quite another to actually be motivated enough to go out and try to help people experiencing these manifestations. She did not come by this opinion lightly, or as some kind of convenient catch-all explanation.
DaveM
Paranormal Adept
Sandanfire, you say that Ms. Guiley is a folklorist. Didn't Ardy Sixkiller Clarke say the same thing? She was just relating stories told to her. The hosts pressured her for more details and when they didn't hear what they wanted, they labeled her a bad guest.. This time around they gave their friend, Ms. Guiley, a pass on her folklore stories. You can't have it both ways, in my book. Also, we don't know what Imbrogno and Guiley wrote between them. I didn't hear much that would make me think there is a big difference between the two books. As far as the 'Djinn are behind most paranormal occurrences' theory, that seems like so much silliness.
Rosemary has investigated and DOCUMENTED THOUSANDS of cases in the field. I have gone out on several cases with her and can say with confidence that she is a very talented, knowledgeable investigator that has been in the trenches REAL-TIME. Ardy simply recounts second-hand stories... I'd say there is a huge difference.
Muadib
Paranormal Adept
I'm sure you have plenty lying around, you're used to flinging crap at people who disagree with you, kind of like a chimpanzee, only less intelligent.
careful there dude, I haven't stooped to calling anyone names and insulting their level of intelligence... you are skirting right on the edge w/ that one! I don't "fling crap" at anyone. I state my opinion based on my years of hard work and research. I've been at it since way before your smary-sounding ass was born. Consider this post a warning...I'm sure you have plenty lying around, you're used to flinging crap at people who disagree with you, kind of like a chimpanzee, only less intelligent.
Muadib
Paranormal Adept
Hey I used "like" I'm following the rules as set forth by yourself, remember? Can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen, son. You want to talk shit but don't think you're going to get an answer back, you're living in a fantasy world, but most of us knew that already.
It is funny though, how you love to stick up for your pals even though they have about as much proof for their so called "theories" and claims (*cough* Ray Stanford) as your typical Paracast guest, the only difference is they aren't your buddies. It's even more funny how you label people as Kool Aid drinkers for believing things with no evidence, but when it's your pals you're right there double fisting that Kool Aid yourself.
Actionsquid
Skilled Investigator
As far as some of the criticism above, I'm not really sure what the guest could have said that would have satisfied them. As Sandanfire pointed out, she made the context of her work pretty clear, and stated explicitly she's not making scientific claims about anything.
If the mythology surrounding the Djinn isn't interesting to you, fine, but if that's the case, I don't really know why you'd even listen.
I enjoyed it and founf the interview thought-provoking. I don't think you need to 100% "buy into" Guiley's worldview to find it so, either.
If the mythology surrounding the Djinn isn't interesting to you, fine, but if that's the case, I don't really know why you'd even listen.
I enjoyed it and founf the interview thought-provoking. I don't think you need to 100% "buy into" Guiley's worldview to find it so, either.
OK, stop it here! You are free to disagree with people, but watch the attacks! The fact is that, to many around the word, the Djinn is still quite relevant. It's not just taking ancient folklore and extrapolating.I'm sure you have plenty lying around, you're used to flinging crap at people who disagree with you, kind of like a chimpanzee, only less intelligent.
Besides, if you don't care about such things, nobody forces you to listen. I don't see anyone capturing a Djinn to bring to the National Press Club. We can't just restrict the conversation to nuts and bolts. There are too many strange things occurring that aren't so readily explained.
As I said, if someone doesn't want to hear about these things, don't listen. But we had to expect this reaction.
Talk shit? I made a joke about your smarmy-sounding comment "....There, I've solved the UFO mystery, can I be a speaker at the next big conference?" I sent back a joke response that I'd supply everyone w/ tomatoes and rotten fruit. Talk about not being able to take a joke, let alone the heat in the kitchen. Your armchair must by scorching your backside, pal. If you keep this up it'll cool off in 30 days. As to your comment about my level of credulity, and being selective about who I feel is credible. You are entitled to your opinion of me, but let me be the first to tell you, you are WRONG—I give credit where credit is due and respect all of those who go out and do the heavy lifting. Anyone can sit back and criticize, not everyone can actually do the work. I respect all those who attempt to take it to the next level by putting in the hard work it takes to further our understanding. You haven't read Rosemary's over 50 books and nine encyclopedias and you haven't seen Ray's evidence. I have read her djinn books and seen Ray's analysis of his evidence. You have not. How can you make such judgements without being familiar w/ the work?
Muadib
Paranormal Adept
Please, oh pretty please enlighten me how Rosemary's theory about Djinn takes us to the next level because for the life of me I just can't see it, how is it any different than your typical fundamentalist Christian theory that ET's are demons? It's different because they're Islamic demons or something, yeah she really got us to the next level. LMFAO. As for banning me, I think we can see who can take it and who can't since you're talking about banning me for 30 days because you can't take a response to your insult. Kind of a little baby-ish, wouldn't you say? Do what you're gonna do.