Hey - now I definitely don't think I'm a conspiracy nut but then I think of two things, out of many more: The Pentagon, JFK. If they are truly not-as-told, then who knows what else we don't know?
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Say it Ain't So! Sandy Coincidences Mounting...
- Thread starter Christopher O'Brien
- Start date
Free episodes:
Wade
FeralNormal master
Can't say I agree with the conclusion, but high marks on the kevin bacon quip angelo. Come to think of it, kevin does have a new show coming out on fox and I think foxes have been sighted in aurora and sandy hook.
exo_doc
Foolish Earthling
WARNING: Conspiracy Theory Ahead.....Viewer Discretion Is Advised
OK, a shot in the dark for "silly conspiracy theorists" reasoning;
1. Two fathers were planning on testifying against very powerful people.
2. These powerful people, have unknown - but presumably- vast resources.
3. They not only want to shut these guys up, but anyone else who might be a threat in the future.
4. Just outright killing them might not be enough of a threat message to anyone else.
5. Said guys might be willing to die to bring said powerful to justice.
6. BUT, would they sacrifice their own children? (I'd assume no.)
7. So, said powerful secretly brainwash thier kids using drugs, machines, voo doo....who knows what....and turn them into mindless soul-less killers who are also brainwashed to be suicidal.
8. This way they ...A) Get the message out (through fear and intimidation) to those who know what to look for.... NOT to mess with them......and B) If anyone suspected something (journalists, reporters,etc) they would blow it off as too "conspiratorial" or thier editors would'nt take such a silly story seriously.
Killing these two guys outright would also raise too many suspicions, and obviously point directly to said powerful.
This way, the only ones implicated are the brainwashed killers.
Ya know, now that I've actualy worked through this, I'm leaning more toward plausible on this.
And, it's really not that complicated once you look at it. It's at the very least worth looking further into.
The only weak link I see is the brainwashing. How could that have been done? Using CIA/NSA mind control stuff?
OK, a shot in the dark for "silly conspiracy theorists" reasoning;
1. Two fathers were planning on testifying against very powerful people.
2. These powerful people, have unknown - but presumably- vast resources.
3. They not only want to shut these guys up, but anyone else who might be a threat in the future.
4. Just outright killing them might not be enough of a threat message to anyone else.
5. Said guys might be willing to die to bring said powerful to justice.
6. BUT, would they sacrifice their own children? (I'd assume no.)
7. So, said powerful secretly brainwash thier kids using drugs, machines, voo doo....who knows what....and turn them into mindless soul-less killers who are also brainwashed to be suicidal.
8. This way they ...A) Get the message out (through fear and intimidation) to those who know what to look for.... NOT to mess with them......and B) If anyone suspected something (journalists, reporters,etc) they would blow it off as too "conspiratorial" or thier editors would'nt take such a silly story seriously.
Killing these two guys outright would also raise too many suspicions, and obviously point directly to said powerful.
This way, the only ones implicated are the brainwashed killers.
Ya know, now that I've actualy worked through this, I'm leaning more toward plausible on this.
And, it's really not that complicated once you look at it. It's at the very least worth looking further into.
The only weak link I see is the brainwashing. How could that have been done? Using CIA/NSA mind control stuff?
Wade
FeralNormal master
very good point, the fact that there are people out there with the inclination and resolve to look into piecing together these events in the first place, regardless of their viability is fascinating to me. If i ever get reincarnated i'm going to come back as a sociologist, you guys are a never ending source of fascination to us....i mean to me...i wonder what the going pay for a sociologist is.
exo_doc
Foolish Earthling
Muadib
Paranormal Adept
Yeah the brainwashing is a weak link but I still say it would've been easier to kill the kids with a little car accident, B&E gone wrong, gang shooting, whatever and the people who knew what to look for would still get the message. The one kid from Sandy Hook still lived with his mother, how would they manage to brainwash him over a period of time and have her not know about it? Especially since she told their therapist she was afraid to leave the kid alone due to his behavior, I'm assuming she was with him most of the time. In the end, it's fun to speculate but I don't think this particular line of reasoning gets us any closer to the truth, sometimes there are no easy answers for why people do crazy shit.
exo_doc
Foolish Earthling
No arguing that!
Wade
FeralNormal master
well, i certainly wouldn't dismiss any talk about a cover up/conspiracy given the coincidences, but just to show my audaciousness knows no boundries, i will go in another direction. as i've posted before the number of coinicedences that are a part of my daily life are very interesting to me, i do write down every coincidence that i experience no matter how teneous it may be. Now in a couple of threads we had fun talking about our perceived reality, i.e. that we are living in a matrix, we are a computer program etc. and there are those of us (including me) that don't dismiss this out of hand. Now if this were the case, would this not be cause enough to re-evaluate the extent (if it even exists) of our own free will? Would there not have to be a master programmer who would set the boundries of what and what not would be allowed? in lieu of a better explanation , past societies would have given this program (or master programmer) a face to help them find a reason to an irrational event. So they come up with a god or a trickster that is ever so subtly (or not so subtly) manipulating events, changing the rules. But getting back to my point (sorta) if we are open to the idea that we are living in a reality not of our making, we should be willing to concede that some things happen not just because the people involved are trying to cover their asses but because it is part of the program. It just is. In other words, these coincidences could occur because of man's attempt to intervene, (course correction) and maybe they occur despite his attempt to intervene(keeping the ship on auto pilot) and would there be any reason to think the programmer wouldn't be above employing a plot twist?
As anyone who watched the video i posted will now know, its absolutely possible to program someone to kill aka MkUltra.
I highly recommend watching the whole thing for context's sake, but if you lack the time and inclination skip to 37:30 ish part and watch the final result, its mindblowing.
Jaw dropping and terrifying stuff
For those only watching the last the polka dot dress and ringtone are the preprogramed triggers. when he touches his forehead with his finger, thats the conditioned response to initiate the program.
This is MKUltra in action, proven as a working technique
I highly recommend watching the whole thing for context's sake, but if you lack the time and inclination skip to 37:30 ish part and watch the final result, its mindblowing.
Jaw dropping and terrifying stuff
For those only watching the last the polka dot dress and ringtone are the preprogramed triggers. when he touches his forehead with his finger, thats the conditioned response to initiate the program.
This is MKUltra in action, proven as a working technique
Muadib
Paranormal Adept
It's a TV show. Derrin has been accused of staging his shows a number of times, I don't know if it's been proven but I wouldn't have a hard time believing it given some of the things I've seen on that show. I am pretty sure that the CIA experimented with hypnosis and drugs in the 70's and the results were nowhere near as spectacular, at least the results that we know about... cue X-Files theme...
Well hes gone after and exposed fake psychics, it would be very bad form to fake his own experiments.
Is Derren Brown Legitimite or Fake? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers
Is Derren Brown Legitimite or Fake? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers
Muadib
Paranormal Adept
I agree but the accusations are there and if it's on TV it's for entertainment, I don't think it's meant to be taken seriously, more to give you something to think about but I could be wrong. I saw one episode where he hypnotized some kid and had him convinced he was in a video game, then woke him up in front of an arcade game and the kid believed he was in the game, I don't know, seems a little far fetched but I've never experimented with hypnosis.
Muadib
Paranormal Adept
Here's the thing though, to me it's totally understandable that he wouldn't admit it if it were faked, first of all it would kill all interest in the program and put him out of a job, second it's kind of like stage magic, if you ask David Copperfield how he makes the Statue of Liberty disappear, he's going to tell you it's magic, but we all know better. I just have a hard time buying it based on the things I've seen, that's all. What I'd really like to do is find a professional hypnotist and see what they think of his show, that would at least be a more informed opinion than mine or another member of the television audience. My grandfather got hypnotized to quit smoking a couple times and it never worked, just as an example, maybe it depends on the person?
Double Nought Spy
May I please go back to the zoo now?
What are the odds?
The Lincoln - Kennedy Connection.
I know some people consider the amazing coincidences in the Lincoln and Kennedy assassinations to be some kind of conspiracy, but those folks (as far as I know) never get around to explaining who might be behind such a feat. Reptilian overlords lurking in the Matrix, maybe? God trying to tell us something? What would that be? Well, maybe that things are not always what they seem. Like Occam's poor old abused and misappropriated razor, that idea cuts both ways. It seems to me that any honest seeker-after-the-truth who has made it far enough in the quest to be posting at a place like this would have been through several such tricksterish episodes. I can think of several of my own. While I never made it to the dizzying heights of something like Richard Hoagland's infamous Old Navy Shirt Price Conspiracy, I have held some silly notions for a while as I entertained wild explanations for puzzling coincidences.
On the other hand, the rather desperate attempt to dubunk the whole Lincoln-Kennedy thing that's posted at Snopes is just as silly in its own way. Apparently unable to admit there are some rather remarkable coincidences there, the author goes about trying to make it look like there is nothing the least bit unusual about any of it. That's no more intellectually honest than the average UFO debunking, which is really kind of depressing. Yes, some of the "coincidences" are exaggerated, some just plain made up, and others misrepresented, but an honest person has to admit that the list contains a lot of things that seem to defy the odds, as we know them. Proof of a conspiracy? Of course not!
The Lincoln - Kennedy Connection.
I know some people consider the amazing coincidences in the Lincoln and Kennedy assassinations to be some kind of conspiracy, but those folks (as far as I know) never get around to explaining who might be behind such a feat. Reptilian overlords lurking in the Matrix, maybe? God trying to tell us something? What would that be? Well, maybe that things are not always what they seem. Like Occam's poor old abused and misappropriated razor, that idea cuts both ways. It seems to me that any honest seeker-after-the-truth who has made it far enough in the quest to be posting at a place like this would have been through several such tricksterish episodes. I can think of several of my own. While I never made it to the dizzying heights of something like Richard Hoagland's infamous Old Navy Shirt Price Conspiracy, I have held some silly notions for a while as I entertained wild explanations for puzzling coincidences.
On the other hand, the rather desperate attempt to dubunk the whole Lincoln-Kennedy thing that's posted at Snopes is just as silly in its own way. Apparently unable to admit there are some rather remarkable coincidences there, the author goes about trying to make it look like there is nothing the least bit unusual about any of it. That's no more intellectually honest than the average UFO debunking, which is really kind of depressing. Yes, some of the "coincidences" are exaggerated, some just plain made up, and others misrepresented, but an honest person has to admit that the list contains a lot of things that seem to defy the odds, as we know them. Proof of a conspiracy? Of course not!
Muadib
Paranormal Adept
Just so we don't get all carried away trying to work out whether Derrin Brown is a fraud or not and to put all my cards on the table, I require a lot more evidence than a TV show to believe that the government is out there programming Manchurian candidates to shoot up elementary schools. Not to be dismissive because I have no problem with the possibility that all that hypnosis stuff could be true but I'd need a lot more to go on then just that to buy into this particular conspiracy theory. That's just my opinion though, take it for what it's worth. (about 2 cents)
Polterwurst
Paranormal Adept
Man, that is just scary. Ever thought of writing a conspiracy horror novel?
You know, I think Lance probably had a point in comparing paranormal beliefs to conspiracy beliefs, but only in that there is definitely some truth underneath all the wild theories, the true believer nonsense, the wishful thinking and the money-making. Back in the 90s I used to laugh about the idea that the CIA had secret interrogation centers here in Germany, but by some information leak and some real investigative journalism that turned out to be true. There are things the government won't tell you and there are things that mainstream scientists won't acknowledge. Does that mean that there is a worldwide conspiracy spun by reckless billionaires who have the secret of Nazi UFOs or that there are angels and demons interfering with humans on a regular basis? Nope, I don't think so.
RenaissanceLady
Paranormal Adept
Here's the corrected (updated) link to the Examiner.com article. I also got the error message when I clicked on the link given by Chris but this one seems to work:
Libor scandal reveals frightening connection to mass shootings of 2012 - National Twitter trends | Examiner.com
My 2 cents: 16 worldwide banks have been linked to this scandal. That doesn't mean 16 little bank branches out in BFE where I live but 16 gigantic global banks, each of which will employ thousands, tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of people. Bank of America, which is one of the banks that has been implicated, has more than 179,000 employees. Citibank has almost 200,000 employees. UBS is smaller but it has 3500 employees in 25 countries. Now multiply those numbers for the 16 banks that have (currently) been implicated in LIBOR. That's a whole lotta people in a whole lotta places, many of whom have been called to testify or may yet be called to testify about this scandal, especially as the investigation continues to grow.
Now let's look at the shooters, both of which had loooong histories of mental health problems:
James Holmes, the suspect in the Aurora shootings, told at least one classmate 4 months prior to the shooting that he wanted to kill lots of people. Apparently he even showed violent episodes with his psychiatrist. He started buying weapons months prior to the shooting and bought his semi-automatic and an additional glock just hours after he failed a college exam. A month prior to the shooting, he tried to join a shooting club. It would appear that after a lifelong struggle with mental illness, he took part in a rampage that he had been planning for months, going full-throttle after failing a fundamental exam. Much is still to be determined about Holmes but it does appear that countless warning signs were ignored by those who were supposed to treat him as well as others who knew him. As he even warned his classmates about how dangerous he could be, he might have been trying desperately to get an intervention for months and months prior to the massacre.
Not as much is yet known about Adam Lanza, as more details come out about this case every single day. We do know that he also had a history of mental illness since childhood. We also know he was assigned a psychologist in high school, after which his mother decided to home school him. We should also consider that this is the same mother who had her own paranoid fantasies involving Doomsday scenarios, causing her to buy the weapons used in the massacre and supposedly even take her son to the shooting range - all in spite of the fact she (allegedly) warned others about her son's violent behavior and was afraid of him. A Huffington Post article even speculates that he was about to be committed to a psychiatric institution and this fear of being committed is what caused his rampage.
So, we can look at this one of two ways:
1. With around a million or more employees for 16 banks worldwide, of which countless employees may or may not be directly or indirectly linked to LIBOR while the number of those scheduled to testify continues to grow, a thorough search of those employees found two men who had sons with a long history of violent mental illness. These sons became brainwashed to kill loads of people all after the LIBOR scandal broke, even though these kids appear to have been violent and wanting to cause harm long before there ever was a scandal and therefore no need to utilize brainwashed psycho-killers. This is meant to be a threat across the globe to those who (may or may not) get called to testify, while at the same time, is meant to look so much like the random actions of psycho-killers that most people would never be aware that a threat against them even exists.
Or....
2. Out of a Very Wide sampling of Americans and others across the globe, two kids with a long history of violent mental illness had the warning signs ignored by those who could have helped them. If they had parents who applauded cut-throat and shady business practices (in other words, typical American businessmen and bankers who feel empathy is a weakness - the kind who might have been part of a major banking scandal), it is possible that they may have been further impaired by such an upbringing, confusing what is right and what is wrong. At least one of these killers was also raised by a mother who had paranoid fantasies, leading her to arm herself in contemplation of acts of violence. (I would wonder if Adam Lanza's mother also had a history of mental illness, leading to even more evidence that there was something genetically wrong with him.) Both of these kids were able to create the massacres entirely because getting the kinds of weapons used was so incredibly easy, with no one even bothering to ask why so much ammo would be needed by one killer while the other could get the weapons and ammo in his own home.
This isn't to say that brainwashing doesn't occur, especially with unwilling or unknowing participants who may have sought out psychiatric help. Earlier this month, Salon.com had an excellent article that shows a "conspiracy theory" that clearly points out this very thing, also discussing the CIA's involvement in these brainwashing experiments. I hope everyone here reads that article. Still, I have a hard time believing that, in a global scandal, two American kids with a history of extreme mental illness, who were violent and may have been fantasizing about killing scores of people long before there ever was a scandal, were quickly brainwashed to do EXACTLY WHAT THEY ALREADY WANTED TO DO in order to create some threat that is so vague as to be invisible. In order for a threat to work, people must know they are being threatened. Using these kids to create massacres would simply appear as the random actions of suicidal crazy people. Remember, 200+ Americans are killed by guns every single week. The same day as this last mass-shooting, another man walked into the Excalibur casino in Vegas and killed a woman before killing himself. This was in spite of all the armed security in that casino. In less than two weeks prior, we also just had the Jovan Belcher murder-suicide, the Portland mall mass-shooting and heaven knows how many other killings that happen daily but don't make the national news.
Libor scandal reveals frightening connection to mass shootings of 2012 - National Twitter trends | Examiner.com
My 2 cents: 16 worldwide banks have been linked to this scandal. That doesn't mean 16 little bank branches out in BFE where I live but 16 gigantic global banks, each of which will employ thousands, tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of people. Bank of America, which is one of the banks that has been implicated, has more than 179,000 employees. Citibank has almost 200,000 employees. UBS is smaller but it has 3500 employees in 25 countries. Now multiply those numbers for the 16 banks that have (currently) been implicated in LIBOR. That's a whole lotta people in a whole lotta places, many of whom have been called to testify or may yet be called to testify about this scandal, especially as the investigation continues to grow.
Now let's look at the shooters, both of which had loooong histories of mental health problems:
James Holmes, the suspect in the Aurora shootings, told at least one classmate 4 months prior to the shooting that he wanted to kill lots of people. Apparently he even showed violent episodes with his psychiatrist. He started buying weapons months prior to the shooting and bought his semi-automatic and an additional glock just hours after he failed a college exam. A month prior to the shooting, he tried to join a shooting club. It would appear that after a lifelong struggle with mental illness, he took part in a rampage that he had been planning for months, going full-throttle after failing a fundamental exam. Much is still to be determined about Holmes but it does appear that countless warning signs were ignored by those who were supposed to treat him as well as others who knew him. As he even warned his classmates about how dangerous he could be, he might have been trying desperately to get an intervention for months and months prior to the massacre.
Not as much is yet known about Adam Lanza, as more details come out about this case every single day. We do know that he also had a history of mental illness since childhood. We also know he was assigned a psychologist in high school, after which his mother decided to home school him. We should also consider that this is the same mother who had her own paranoid fantasies involving Doomsday scenarios, causing her to buy the weapons used in the massacre and supposedly even take her son to the shooting range - all in spite of the fact she (allegedly) warned others about her son's violent behavior and was afraid of him. A Huffington Post article even speculates that he was about to be committed to a psychiatric institution and this fear of being committed is what caused his rampage.
So, we can look at this one of two ways:
1. With around a million or more employees for 16 banks worldwide, of which countless employees may or may not be directly or indirectly linked to LIBOR while the number of those scheduled to testify continues to grow, a thorough search of those employees found two men who had sons with a long history of violent mental illness. These sons became brainwashed to kill loads of people all after the LIBOR scandal broke, even though these kids appear to have been violent and wanting to cause harm long before there ever was a scandal and therefore no need to utilize brainwashed psycho-killers. This is meant to be a threat across the globe to those who (may or may not) get called to testify, while at the same time, is meant to look so much like the random actions of psycho-killers that most people would never be aware that a threat against them even exists.
Or....
2. Out of a Very Wide sampling of Americans and others across the globe, two kids with a long history of violent mental illness had the warning signs ignored by those who could have helped them. If they had parents who applauded cut-throat and shady business practices (in other words, typical American businessmen and bankers who feel empathy is a weakness - the kind who might have been part of a major banking scandal), it is possible that they may have been further impaired by such an upbringing, confusing what is right and what is wrong. At least one of these killers was also raised by a mother who had paranoid fantasies, leading her to arm herself in contemplation of acts of violence. (I would wonder if Adam Lanza's mother also had a history of mental illness, leading to even more evidence that there was something genetically wrong with him.) Both of these kids were able to create the massacres entirely because getting the kinds of weapons used was so incredibly easy, with no one even bothering to ask why so much ammo would be needed by one killer while the other could get the weapons and ammo in his own home.
This isn't to say that brainwashing doesn't occur, especially with unwilling or unknowing participants who may have sought out psychiatric help. Earlier this month, Salon.com had an excellent article that shows a "conspiracy theory" that clearly points out this very thing, also discussing the CIA's involvement in these brainwashing experiments. I hope everyone here reads that article. Still, I have a hard time believing that, in a global scandal, two American kids with a history of extreme mental illness, who were violent and may have been fantasizing about killing scores of people long before there ever was a scandal, were quickly brainwashed to do EXACTLY WHAT THEY ALREADY WANTED TO DO in order to create some threat that is so vague as to be invisible. In order for a threat to work, people must know they are being threatened. Using these kids to create massacres would simply appear as the random actions of suicidal crazy people. Remember, 200+ Americans are killed by guns every single week. The same day as this last mass-shooting, another man walked into the Excalibur casino in Vegas and killed a woman before killing himself. This was in spite of all the armed security in that casino. In less than two weeks prior, we also just had the Jovan Belcher murder-suicide, the Portland mall mass-shooting and heaven knows how many other killings that happen daily but don't make the national news.