I would have loved to be there for the short duration of his public concession. Congratulations manx. He's a hard nut to crack and lies through his teeth.
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Science of ufos
- Thread starter Constance
- Start date
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I would have loved to be there for the short duration of his public concession. Congratulations manx. He's a hard nut to crack and lies through his teeth.
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
Disingenuous. Beats me what's your issue, Constance.
I'm not aware that you said there was a lack of evidence for the occult so I couldn't have taken it personally. However, it's clear you have an issue with what I have posted elsewhere - I guess.
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strange going back thru that thread.
heh heh this is the point at which he starts to conceed.
.........................mr oberg
They were dumping water through the FES as an experiment.
It does not mean they were NOT dumping water out of the normal ports.
Be careful! you're digging into genuine research here. You might find information you'd rather not know about, that will support a prosaic explanation.
New knowledge can be dangerous to preconceptions.
..............................
i reply back now havng found the data.
...................
jim on flight 75 they rerouted thru a switch valve all waste urine to the fes flushes as ive already told you
its not my assumption but nasa data avaliable in the link provided.
...................................
heh heh this is the point at which he starts to conceed.
.........................mr oberg
They were dumping water through the FES as an experiment.
It does not mean they were NOT dumping water out of the normal ports.
Be careful! you're digging into genuine research here. You might find information you'd rather not know about, that will support a prosaic explanation.
New knowledge can be dangerous to preconceptions.
..............................
i reply back now havng found the data.
...................
jim on flight 75 they rerouted thru a switch valve all waste urine to the fes flushes as ive already told you
its not my assumption but nasa data avaliable in the link provided.
...................................
and finally a few posts later
......................
looks like jims colleges are cleaning house.
try clicking the hotlinks now on those pages for the experiments
error pages now only.
how long will it take them to make everything fit your scenario jim.
USMP-3
PAGE NOT FOUND
mephisto
PAGE NOT FOUND
sams
zeta.lerc.nasa.gov...
Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage
(AADSF
dragon.larc.nasa.gov...
The webpage cannot be found
ZENO Critical Fluid Light Scattering
roissy.umd.edu...
Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage
and all the others aswell i would guess shame on you jim and shame on nasa.
i suppose its big boys games and big boys rules but its pretty obvious that you only use forums to entice people to dispute your theory with fact and then dissapear the fact.
....................
The upshot is the ''tether incident'' is not ice crystal debri imo.
It was a micro meteor strike, an explosive event, and created alot of debri fragments, blown out between the camera and line of sight to the tether, thats what was the source of the bokha
......................
looks like jims colleges are cleaning house.
try clicking the hotlinks now on those pages for the experiments
error pages now only.
how long will it take them to make everything fit your scenario jim.
USMP-3
PAGE NOT FOUND
mephisto
PAGE NOT FOUND
sams
zeta.lerc.nasa.gov...
Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage
(AADSF
dragon.larc.nasa.gov...
The webpage cannot be found
ZENO Critical Fluid Light Scattering
roissy.umd.edu...
Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage
and all the others aswell i would guess shame on you jim and shame on nasa.
i suppose its big boys games and big boys rules but its pretty obvious that you only use forums to entice people to dispute your theory with fact and then dissapear the fact.
....................
The upshot is the ''tether incident'' is not ice crystal debri imo.
It was a micro meteor strike, an explosive event, and created alot of debri fragments, blown out between the camera and line of sight to the tether, thats what was the source of the bokha
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Well done, manx. Was that on ATS or maybe a British forum? I hope a lot of people saw it. I might cite it to him if I ever run across him again, but will link it to this forum or your user name. I should mention the remarkable speed with which he appeared on that small out-of-the-way forum whenever I or anyone else posted leaks from NASA people or videos/photos or strong ufo cases. I had the impression he must have had his computer set up to link to such posts on that and other ufo forums. The last time I was there (more than a year ago) I read one of his debunking and ridicule attacks that I'd just read on ATS copied over almost verbatim to the smaller site.
Disingenuous. Beats me what's your issue is, Constance.
I'm not aware that you said there was a lack of evidence for the occult so I couldn't have taken it personally. However, it's clear you have an issue with what I have posted elsewhere - I guess.
I haven't said elsewhere than here in this thread that I think there is a lack of evidence for the occult.. Nor do I have an issue with 'what you have posted elsewhere', as you can see from the 'likes' I've recorded concerning many of your posts. I do think you are too quick to dismiss McClelland and reacted similarly to the moon anomaly researchers who presented evidence in the 2-hour doc on that material (testimony gathered and organized by Don Berliner) discussed here a few months ago. Also, it seems to be Ingo Swann's rv-ing of the dark side of the moon, targeted by an unnamed security agency, that has put you off taking him seriously.
What I wrote above in this thread that has upset you is this:
I do have trouble buying into some of your posts concerning occult knowledge, entities, and magic. I haven't disputed those posts because I know of no demonstrable grounds on which to do so, and it might very well be that everything you tell us is true. I do feel that you might extend the same 'wait and see attitude' to witnesses and whistleblowers in the ufo field. Again, I'm sorry if I seemed to be attacking you and not the comparative degrees of lack of evidentiary support for NASA's ufo cover-up and occult subject matter. I see from the parenthetical note I expressed in that sentence that I must have anticipated that you might take what I was about to say personally, and I should have listened to that subconscious warning. I'd delete that sentence or my whole post now except that that would produce confusion in posts that have followed.
A significant upshot.
Maybe. Maybe not. We keep seeing those ships with the notch in moon and other space videos and photos. I just saw an impressive clip the other day showing several of them apparently crossing the moon. Was it posted here?
Shyte ive been re-reading that for over 2 hours and frankly im only about 40 pages, another 100 to go.
i found one of a few 'kudos posts, but not the one, but not the one i was looking for yet.
quote jim.
BTW, those are the times 'spacefan' was claiming -- he (unlike you) does original research, and deserves the credit for it.
Funny thing is we come to the same conclusion, bokha, but at first i thought critters, cos i was sure it wasnt ice, but then i carried on reading reports, and it became obvious from photographs of tile strike damage, and the shuttles positioning [attitude] and the corner the camera the footage was shot from, referenced against strike sites, it was clear to me it was just a random strike at the wrong time.
Bearing in mind shuttles rarely take less than 100 strikes a mission, it was hardly unusual, it wasnt critters, and i lost interest.
2 things.
over there i wasnt manxman, but spacefan, and i put about 6 weeks of solid work into sts75, by far the most time/effort i have ever spent on one event, i really did believe they wre critters at one time attracted like moths to a fluorescent light strip..
secondly what forum did you use for 15 years Constance.
i found one of a few 'kudos posts, but not the one, but not the one i was looking for yet.
quote jim.
BTW, those are the times 'spacefan' was claiming -- he (unlike you) does original research, and deserves the credit for it.
Funny thing is we come to the same conclusion, bokha, but at first i thought critters, cos i was sure it wasnt ice, but then i carried on reading reports, and it became obvious from photographs of tile strike damage, and the shuttles positioning [attitude] and the corner the camera the footage was shot from, referenced against strike sites, it was clear to me it was just a random strike at the wrong time.
Bearing in mind shuttles rarely take less than 100 strikes a mission, it was hardly unusual, it wasnt critters, and i lost interest.
2 things.
over there i wasnt manxman, but spacefan, and i put about 6 weeks of solid work into sts75, by far the most time/effort i have ever spent on one event, i really did believe they wre critters at one time attracted like moths to a fluorescent light strip..
secondly what forum did you use for 15 years Constance.
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Tyger
Paranormal Adept
Martyn Stubbs - I know this from Martyn Stubbs! I've tried a couple of times to get a conversation going about his analysis on this chat site but it never goes anywhere. Do you know Martyn Stubbs' work, Manxman?
In this vid (below) at approx 0:40 Martyn references your pal Jim Oberg -
In this video (below), at 1:35 one sees that fabulous video of the 'fleet of disks/ufos' flying over the earth. Martyn was postulating three phenomenon: disks photographed from the ground are #1 ; disks photographed from space are #2 ; and then there is the 3rd phenomenon, the very fast movement of small 'balls' or streaks, which he calls the 'spherical phenomenon'. I have been mesmerized by his work ever since I came across it several years ago.
It's curious at approx 4:00 as Martyn talks about showing his work to scientists, both in Canada and at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory: "You really have to be there to hold their hand."
At 4:40 he talks about the tether.
I wonder if Martyn Stubbs is not the darling of the ufo'ers because he is only willing to say what the phenomenon is not (not ice crystals, not space debris, not meteors). He is not willing to say - like a good scientist, though he is not a scientist - what they are. He is documenting a phenomenon - and he even says that he was staying away from the 'little grey alien' explanations. In that respect what he is saying is not 'sexy' - but I find what he is showing very exciting and wish he had more play.
Stubbs' non-paranoia, btw, is refreshing. He has a very grounded view of his interactions with NASA and JPL, etc. He's really rather fun. Famous section at 2:30 regarding the space walk and what's in front of the astronaut.
At 7:00 (below) Stubbs talks about the lights that came into the space ship with the astronauts are commenting live on the feed -
For the first 35 seconds on this video (below) we hear the astronauts talking about the flashes of lights.
At 2:00 (below) Stubbs has interesting things to say about the phenomenon.
At 4:00 (below) the Russian cosmonaut report on ufo's. At 5:25 there is a description of a Ufo seen from space by a cosmonaut. At 6:00 we see the Russian footage of a UFO that Stubbs will verify from the US cameras from a different angle. This is the most convincing piece of video footage I have ever seen - demonstrating that the disks are an objective event, occurring in real time and real space.
At 8:00 (below) the mesmerizing video sequence of the 'bed of diamonds' - 'fleet of disks' - flying over the ocean.
We keep seeing the 'fleet of disks' at the beginning of this video (below).
This video has all the footage.
At 3:49 darts the Russian footage that Stubbs eerily verifies.
Martyn Stubbs VS NASA 6 - YouTube
Russian footage continues (below) - one from 1989 - another in 1991 (the Russians always focus on the anomalies).
Then at 3:40 the tether -
Martyn Stubbs VS NASA 7 - YouTube
We continue to see the tether at the beginning of the video (below) - and then proceed to other footage showing disks behaving in definite ways seen from space.
Martyn Stubbs VS NASA 8 - YouTube
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Tyger
Paranormal Adept
I believe Martyn Stubbs died of a brain tumor sometime in the late 00's. [Note: No he didn't - he had cancer but lives - see below.]
Extraterrestrial Energyzoa Hypothesis (ETZH)
LINK: User:Cyberguru/etzh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Extraterrestrial Energyzoa Hypothesis (ETZH)
LINK: User:Cyberguru/etzh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Tyger
Paranormal Adept
Since you all have been mentioning Jim Oberg......I came across this looking for Martyn Stubbs....
From May 2011 -
LINK: Martyn Stubbs Secret NASA Transmissions, page 3
Jim Oberg: "Oh? Nobody's criticizing Martyn's imagination and creativity, but his sense of importance may have led him to misinterpret random events as being directed at him. Isn't there a clinical psych term used for that delusion?"
[Thing is, if you watch Martyn, he is not anything like what Oberg is claiming. Oberg - unpleasant man. I see what you mean.]
AgentSnarf: "So what is the deal is Martyn Stubbs dead or not seems to be A LOT of confusion about this, one of the top things that comes up when you search "Martyn Stubbs" on google is Martyn Stubbs dead and Martyn Stubbs death, so is dude dead or what?"
Jim Oberg: "Does anybody have any indication that Martyn has actually died? So far these rumors pop up from time to time and turn out to be spurious."
Arbitrageur: "When I typed "Martyn Stubbs" into the Yahoo search engine, it suggested the search "martyn stubbs died" which was interesting. So I clicked that suggested search. The only thing I found was a 2009 claim on a site that competes with ATS that Stubbs was already dead. This was obviously false since Stubbs was posting on ATS in 2010, though he's now apparently banned. I also found a link to a facebook account with his name, but with no facebook account of my own, I can't tell if he's posted to it lately. Somebody with a FB account could check that."
[Strange that such a gentle man would be banned - but that got retracted - was not true. I just checked - he has a FB account - this is him, last posted on FB in August 2014, started school at BCIT: https://www.facebook.com/martyn.stubbs.58?fref=ts ]
In June 2012, paradiselost333 posted: "Martyn is not dead! 100% 4 sure. just dropped out of public eye after the cancer..."
Jim Oberg: "Yes, thanks! He actually has been posting on other space UFO threads on ATS regularly, and recently. Under some other names, but acknowledging his identity openly."
So that ends that foray. Glad to know that Martyn is alive and attending university for a degree. Good to know he survived the cancer. Now to bed.
From May 2011 -
LINK: Martyn Stubbs Secret NASA Transmissions, page 3
Jim Oberg: "Oh? Nobody's criticizing Martyn's imagination and creativity, but his sense of importance may have led him to misinterpret random events as being directed at him. Isn't there a clinical psych term used for that delusion?"
[Thing is, if you watch Martyn, he is not anything like what Oberg is claiming. Oberg - unpleasant man. I see what you mean.]
AgentSnarf: "So what is the deal is Martyn Stubbs dead or not seems to be A LOT of confusion about this, one of the top things that comes up when you search "Martyn Stubbs" on google is Martyn Stubbs dead and Martyn Stubbs death, so is dude dead or what?"
Jim Oberg: "Does anybody have any indication that Martyn has actually died? So far these rumors pop up from time to time and turn out to be spurious."
Arbitrageur: "When I typed "Martyn Stubbs" into the Yahoo search engine, it suggested the search "martyn stubbs died" which was interesting. So I clicked that suggested search. The only thing I found was a 2009 claim on a site that competes with ATS that Stubbs was already dead. This was obviously false since Stubbs was posting on ATS in 2010, though he's now apparently banned. I also found a link to a facebook account with his name, but with no facebook account of my own, I can't tell if he's posted to it lately. Somebody with a FB account could check that."
[Strange that such a gentle man would be banned - but that got retracted - was not true. I just checked - he has a FB account - this is him, last posted on FB in August 2014, started school at BCIT: https://www.facebook.com/martyn.stubbs.58?fref=ts ]
In June 2012, paradiselost333 posted: "Martyn is not dead! 100% 4 sure. just dropped out of public eye after the cancer..."
Jim Oberg: "Yes, thanks! He actually has been posting on other space UFO threads on ATS regularly, and recently. Under some other names, but acknowledging his identity openly."
So that ends that foray. Glad to know that Martyn is alive and attending university for a degree. Good to know he survived the cancer. Now to bed.
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
Oooh - I just figured out that Jim Oberg and Secretnasaman (Martyn Stubbs) had this exchange on the ATS Forum - same thread as linked above but on the 2nd page of the thread. Lots of good back-and-forth up to 2010 - but here is the shank of the dialog between Oberg and Stubbs.
Jim Oberg, from September 2005: "What was that?"
Secretnasaman/Martyn Stubbs: "posted on Sep, 23 2009 @ 10:28 AM
Jim...All you do is motivate me to share more of my footage with ATS, You Tube etcetera...and..You know that the 2nd Space Phenomena is real & not cosmic rays & you` are very quiet on this strange NASA phenomena. And 3 people have sent me more of this from the 3 last NASA missions..so NASA is failing to censor it...I even frame captured them on a CNN feed !.... & posted it on the secretnasaman You Tube channel along with 200 plus other NASA vids... I have a lot more NASA mission video to review & post yet, that should keep you busy 'splaining the unexplainable ...
"RE another posted comment...
I have no problem with David Sereda & we spoke last night on a new "tether" breakthrough we are working on with the worlds best imaging labs..so stay tuned..I will see if I can show everyone some of the work as I just got some of the new still images today & they show more than I thought they would!...
"Finally & sadly Graham Birdsall & Jeff Challender both have passed away..& they were wonderful friends who loved working with me on the NASA footage. I miss them."
Jim Oberg: "Which you try to make harder by withholding the date/time of the video so context cannot be determined. Tricky!!"
Secretnasaman/Martyn Stubbs: "Jim, I am,like you, not a perfect human & part of the reason to revisit my Archive is for me to learn more. A lot of what you claim is "withholding" is not. I think it is better to observe the NASA flight day videos & LISTEN to how much detail NASA & the astronauts DO NOT GIVE.
"Much of what you see is in context & of many of the flights circumstances are obvious. NASA has hundreds of pages of "detail" already posted & I had no problem matching much of the various flight videos details by specific payload "events"..Which satellites were with which mission...who the astronauts were on the videos..who's voice was CAPCOM...the control room shots reveal more..etc..I post the pictures & NASA posts the words(your details?) ...but I'm aware now of your line of attack..paperwork!
"Yes...Jim , I will improve my posts & info as life is full of lessons..but so very many of the posts I read have no problem with missing details, paperwork, & all that stuff you love to complain is missing! ATS members want to SEE what NASA won't post...& not read what NASA has already fully posted. This is the 21st century."
Jim Oberg: "Martyn, by posting as little context as possible, you allow people's -- and your own -- imagine to run wild. The most hilarious example continues to be your insistence that in one case Mission Control is relaying an order to astronauts to 'stay vector' in the face of a UFO confrontation -- a musunderstanding of the words so basic it's breathtaking. Will you even consider the possibility that you have misinterpreted the spoken words?"
Secretnasaman/Martyn Stubbs: Regarding Oberg saying: "The most hilarious example continues to be your insistence that in one case Mission Control is relaying an order to astronauts to 'stay vector'" - Martyn Stubbs: "Totally wrong.."continues to be your insistence that"... is lying like a sidewalk! In 2001, I dropped any Vector talk...after your debate with the U.K. UFO magazine. And same with that 'astronaut replaced' stuff. I dropped it as it deviates from the NASA UFO videos...
"Jim its not about me, or what I once said 8 years ago. ..Move on..please, cuz it just is not true I "continue". Every time you throw this stay vector out at me, it's you that "continues" to insist...not me!"
Jim Oberg: "Thanks for clearing it up, and glad to hear it. Sorry that I didn't find some why to learn this earlier, but I couldn't manage to until you just told me. Good."
Jim Oberg, from September 2005: "What was that?"
Secretnasaman/Martyn Stubbs: "posted on Sep, 23 2009 @ 10:28 AM
Jim...All you do is motivate me to share more of my footage with ATS, You Tube etcetera...and..You know that the 2nd Space Phenomena is real & not cosmic rays & you` are very quiet on this strange NASA phenomena. And 3 people have sent me more of this from the 3 last NASA missions..so NASA is failing to censor it...I even frame captured them on a CNN feed !.... & posted it on the secretnasaman You Tube channel along with 200 plus other NASA vids... I have a lot more NASA mission video to review & post yet, that should keep you busy 'splaining the unexplainable ...
"RE another posted comment...
I have no problem with David Sereda & we spoke last night on a new "tether" breakthrough we are working on with the worlds best imaging labs..so stay tuned..I will see if I can show everyone some of the work as I just got some of the new still images today & they show more than I thought they would!...
"Finally & sadly Graham Birdsall & Jeff Challender both have passed away..& they were wonderful friends who loved working with me on the NASA footage. I miss them."
Jim Oberg: "Which you try to make harder by withholding the date/time of the video so context cannot be determined. Tricky!!"
Secretnasaman/Martyn Stubbs: "Jim, I am,like you, not a perfect human & part of the reason to revisit my Archive is for me to learn more. A lot of what you claim is "withholding" is not. I think it is better to observe the NASA flight day videos & LISTEN to how much detail NASA & the astronauts DO NOT GIVE.
"Much of what you see is in context & of many of the flights circumstances are obvious. NASA has hundreds of pages of "detail" already posted & I had no problem matching much of the various flight videos details by specific payload "events"..Which satellites were with which mission...who the astronauts were on the videos..who's voice was CAPCOM...the control room shots reveal more..etc..I post the pictures & NASA posts the words(your details?) ...but I'm aware now of your line of attack..paperwork!
"Yes...Jim , I will improve my posts & info as life is full of lessons..but so very many of the posts I read have no problem with missing details, paperwork, & all that stuff you love to complain is missing! ATS members want to SEE what NASA won't post...& not read what NASA has already fully posted. This is the 21st century."
Jim Oberg: "Martyn, by posting as little context as possible, you allow people's -- and your own -- imagine to run wild. The most hilarious example continues to be your insistence that in one case Mission Control is relaying an order to astronauts to 'stay vector' in the face of a UFO confrontation -- a musunderstanding of the words so basic it's breathtaking. Will you even consider the possibility that you have misinterpreted the spoken words?"
Secretnasaman/Martyn Stubbs: Regarding Oberg saying: "The most hilarious example continues to be your insistence that in one case Mission Control is relaying an order to astronauts to 'stay vector'" - Martyn Stubbs: "Totally wrong.."continues to be your insistence that"... is lying like a sidewalk! In 2001, I dropped any Vector talk...after your debate with the U.K. UFO magazine. And same with that 'astronaut replaced' stuff. I dropped it as it deviates from the NASA UFO videos...
"Jim its not about me, or what I once said 8 years ago. ..Move on..please, cuz it just is not true I "continue". Every time you throw this stay vector out at me, it's you that "continues" to insist...not me!"
Jim Oberg: "Thanks for clearing it up, and glad to hear it. Sorry that I didn't find some why to learn this earlier, but I couldn't manage to until you just told me. Good."
You're taking this too far (and have been saying some quite dreadful things about me over several posts). Please let it go and move on.
Jeremiah Dugger
Skilled Investigator
Seriously. I enjoy 'wild n wooly' and all, but aren't we all mature enough to maintain a little decorum in the forum?
Personal clashes aside, this thread-in-progress and the forums here at large are home to truly amazing discussions. Reading back through, I have so much catching up to do.
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Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
Eventually, even the most unlikely of clashes ensue. It's like a meme or something. Where's Nameless when you need him?
I always (well not always, only for the year or so I've been here) thought nameless was a woman. Must have been the avatar (looked like a girl sitting on a red car?). Haven't seen him here for a long time though.
My thought for the day: there are too many memes in the world.
My thought for the day: there are too many memes in the world.
Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
Yeah, that is the other very interesting aspect of avatar identity and posts produced by them - gender confusion. Of course, @Constance , you've made that obvious in your case. I've always felt we need more women's voices in this field talking it up as monocultural encironments are dangerous and/or uncomfortable. What most happens is that people are usually assumed male by default, or there's a lack of vision when names offer no clues. However, Nameless' avatar was the Koolaid man's face on that car which I've always seen as male and then there's tone in messages etc...well, anyway, I'm sure when he's done from his sabbatical we'll get that wiley wit, intensity of proclamation and absolutely innovative, in depth perspectives back again. But it is a little 'different' with a number of big voices from this forum not around. Interesting how time shaves people off here and there as the flavour of the stone soup is always in flux.
I've always felt we need more women's voices in this field talking it up as monocultural encironments are dangerous and/or uncomfortable. What most happens is that people are usually assumed male by default, or there's a lack of vision when names offer no clues. However, Nameless' avatar was the Koolaid man's face on that car which I've always seen as male and then there's tone in messages etc...well, anyway, I'm sure when he's done from his sabbatical we'll get that wiley wit, intensity of proclamation and absolutely innovative, in depth perspectives back again. But it is a little 'different' with a number of big voices from this forum not around. Interesting how time shaves people off here and there as the flavour of the stone soup is always in flux.Either that, or they re-appear under a new account name, forgetting that writing style, attitude and opinion will out them in the end.
Im of the opinion the duel dissection stalker/ bananas account is back under a new veil, but it all adds to the worldwide melting pot.
Im of the opinion the duel dissection stalker/ bananas account is back under a new veil, but it all adds to the worldwide melting pot.
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Jeff Davis
Paranormal Adept
Not sure if you caught this or not, but there is tremendous relevance in the following and it ties in nicely with Larry's posts that echo Hill's renderings at Kevin's blog:Any takers?
Travelling Spirit
Paranormal Novice
Great posts, thanks for putting in the work!