Seeing Ghosts Sucks

[Graphimancer]

Well, Jeff, that one you told about you walking into the field toward the light, and not opening your eyes, that was way more intense than anything I've encountered. I'm not complaining, mind you--I definitely don't need that in my life!

I think one factor is that I grew up in a family that looking back seem's very New Agey. They wouldn't have described themselves as such, but they were always going to psychic fairs, or talking about typical 70's style New Age stuff, like biorhythms, or Atlantis, or the like. My Mom had a very pronounce out-of-body near-death experience on the operating table, and my dad used to lay in the yard watching for ufos (he never saw one, to my knowledge). In the 70's, it seemed a big part of the culture, and we went to all those movies, like Chariots of the gods, Noah's Arc, the ones about Yetis, etc.

(Now that I think about it, I guess I should be surprised that at 43 that my life isn't stranger than it already is. I guess I never had a chance.)

 

[Raevenskye]

I understand where you're coming from Scott. I've been in my own little "crisis of spirituality" since my Dad crossed over 2 years ago. My beloved aunt (his sister) crossed over on Christmas night. I see "people" come and go all thru my house, have a "visitor" who hangs out in the kitchen and hallway, see/hear/experience things almost everywhere I go...but...nothing from the ones I'd really like to hear from! What difference does is make if my closet is a portal, and spirits come and go like a train station? (other than the fact that they get safe passage, and we don't mess with each other). There are no messages...nothing of consequence, and yet....there it is. Maybe I'm being a little bit of a myopic drama queen, and I don't feel this way all the time, but I *am* a little bitter right now. I'm never alone, often spooked, and am I really helping anyone? Often imprinted emotions manifest in me via tears, and that freaks everyone out. It's almost impossible to explain.
There are parts of "the sight"(whatever you want to call it), that are fun and wonderful, but it can be equally difficult and confusing. I wouldn't trade my abilities ...they're a part of me, and life would be lonely without them, but sometimes....they suck

 

[Graphimancer]

Well, Raevenskye, you life sounds pretty similar to mind. I'm glad I outgrew or got past the tears/crying response, I have to admit.

I understand what it's like to have them come and go. We've had one that played with dishes in the sink downstairs when we are upstairs, we've had ones who take pleasure in tipping things off shelves. We even had one who kept turning a light on in our living room to get our attention. And, while it sounds like total malarky, I'll be the first to admit, the light-turner even turned on a light for bit that had been unplugged. We got tired of him messing with the light, unplugged it, and he still turned it on for several seconds. Spooky.

In this case, not knowing how you are supposed to react with such things, I yelled at the light-turner as though he where a kid, telling him to leave the light alone. It stopped. It's not foolproof, but forcefully telling an entity to cease and desist usually works. If it doesn't, you've got a problem on your hands, and you are best served by vacating quickly.

When I say Second Sight, I do think there is a genetic tie to it; I'm Scottish-Irish, with some German thrown in. It seems a lot of Celtic people have talents in this regard. I guess since I'm a professional artist, I live in my head and imagination a lot, and that ads to it, too.

Raevenskye, you mention the fun parts of Second Sight. I don't know if this is part of it, but sometimes I see the reality of things behind their physical appearance. Yes, this this weird, and hard to explain. Sometimes it's sort of a symbolic vision, overlaid in the imagination over the physical world. Usually my impressions are born out as accurate. I guess it also comes across as a sensitivity to synchronicity, where meanings are given to single subjects from a bunch of different sources.

It would be nice to have these abilities without the ghosts, though.

 

[Ally]

I just thought I would add to the geneticCeltic theory. I am Irish, German and French. I have had a wide range of psychic events and abilities all my lfe. I am 43 now.

 

[Raevenskye]

In my current house, the cabinets won't stay closed (former owners even put child locks on them). Some people would be terrified to come into the kitchen every morning and find all the cabinets open, but for us, it's business as usual. I just close them and keep on going. I do ask sometimes why "it" can't wash the dishes instead! hehe
I'm better at controlling the emotional manifestations, altho I occasionally get blindsided. I come from a long line of "spooky" women, but nobody bothered to tell me how to help myself, so I've had to learn on the fly.
Heritage-wise, I'm Native American with some Scots-Irish (and prob some Welsh waaaaaay back) thrown in. I've always had these kinds of experiences, dreams, etc. I really wouldn't know how to live any other way!

 

[Graphimancer]

Heritage-wise, I'm Native American with some Scots-Irish (and prob some Welsh waaaaaay back) thrown in. I've always had these kinds of experiences, dreams, etc. I really wouldn't know how to live any other way!

Well, you got a double whammy there--Celtic + American Indian! You probably never had a choice whether you would be psychic or not.

Plus, women often seem more likely to be psychic than are men.

I don't think there is a good guidebook for what we put up with. If it's all business as usual for you, then you have handled it like I have.

I just thought I would add to the geneticCeltic theory. I am Irish, German and French. I have had a wide range of psychic events and abilities all my lfe. I am 43 now.

Makes me think there should be a support group. Just chatting here, I'm not as bothered by all this as I was when I started the thread.

 

[Raevenskye]

hehe...I didn't have a choice...it chose me, and that is that! I was "born with a veil" (as the elders called it), and they say that's the reason I see spirits, but many in my family do (and not just the women).
I'm not too bothered by it anymore (unless I'm alone all night...still don't like that), but sometimes it gets irksome.
A really cool experience I had was while visiting an historic house in the area. In the downstairs kitchen I encountered a little boy spirit who insisted "this was not right....this room is wrong"..and proceeded to lead me around the room telling me all the things that had been changed since his time there...where his mother worked, and even when they "put him" when he was really sick. Come to find out, he told me things that weren't public knowledge, and things that the historic home's reps don't talk about...mainly that he's buried in that house...but he told me. That was a great experience. He will tell anyone that listens. I'm not the only one.
I am a little hurt that I can't communicate with my Dad often, but I can see some other old man in the house almost nightly. I don't know how to reconcile that.

 

[Graphimancer]

Born with the veil--I've heard of that. Requires surgery right after birth, that's the same thing, right? I've heard that gives you true vision or some such. It sounds like your abilities are even more finely tuned than my own.

I can't explain the why's and wherefores of who decides to show up. I've never attempted to summon anyone specific, because I figure they have important things to attend to in the beyond, and calling them might be rude. Most of my encounters with people I knew in life have been not as common as with meeting strangers. I guess most of my encounters, now that I think of it, have been with ghosts who have bonded with a place.

About two years ago, or three, maybe, I started seeing shadows of houses that are gone or torn down. When I took my wife to see one, she started seeing them too, when I was there at least. There's a shadow house in my front yard. About 25 or 30 years ago, the house was torn down. We found its foundation when we put in our septic tank. Now, it's still there in a way.

It's weird. Last night, I felt my alarms go off, and I sense a big energy move through, but I never saw any sort of manifestation. I don't think it was a false alarm, but I didn't see anything. I guess these things aren't very exact.

When you talked to the little boy, did you hear his words inside your head? That's my experience, but you sound more advanced than me.

 

[Raevenskye]

I don't know if the veil thing required surgery or not, but there was a membrane covering my face, so I'm told.
Yes...I heard the little boy in my head and "saw" him pulling at me...he was everything but standing there.
I think it's cool that you can see structures! What a neat thing!

 

[Graphimancer]

Yeah, I figured you heard/saw him in your head--that's the way it is for me, like a mental overlay over the material world.

I think the ability to see the structures is potentially cool, I have to admit. I haven't tried to go into to any of them. I'm not sure how that would work.

 

[Raevenskye]

I'm always intrigued by the reports of people seeing a whole past scene, or something like that. Wonder what would happen if they walked into it? Would they be transported, or would it disappear?

 

[Graphimancer]

That's a very good question, and I don't know. Interesting concept, though.

 

[TClaeys]

If anyone is still reading this thread:

I don't really believe in ghosts, but have had some strange coincidences that make me think differently. However it seems to depend on the openness of my thoughts. These strange coincidences seemed to happen when I felt open to them. And it really makes me wonder if your frame of mind has something to do with it OR if you can fit in "coincidences" to fit your mind.

Thats not very clear and this is hard to express. Let me try again. Lets say you ask for some kind of sign. And you get one. Even a specific one. Am I just connecting the two subconsciously because I am looking for it, or is it something else, perhaps out-of-normal-reality?? This is something I struggle with, because I tend now to think it was just me subconsciously putting one and one together. When before in my open minded framework I thought it may be a sign, whatever that may be. Hope I'm making sense here. I've never written about this and it's hard to explain.

On another level sticking with the relevant stories here I wonder a few things. If I was standing with any of you who have had these experiences, what would I see?? I tend to think nothing as Scott seems to relay stories of perhaps non-physical entities. But cabinet doors?? Surely these are physical.

So where does this leave us as to the nature of the experiences?? Is it real in a sense, do you think, that there IS some actual communication or appearance by beings(whatever they are) OR is it some imaginative and creative part of ourselves that projects and conjures imagery and experience??

Either way I find it interesting. And Scott I live in Indy. If you could share with me some places where encounters have happened, perhaps I can, well, ..... I don't know what. Go there? See for myself? I don't know, but I suppose that some of the reason I'm here is that I'm puzzled, intrigued, perhaps gullible, open minded, and skeptical. And I will probably die not knowing anymore than I do now, but it's worth a try to uncover what reality is.

I hope I've made a little sense in this ramble, but maybe not.

 

[Seth]

Am I just connecting the two subconsciously because I am looking for it, or is it something else, perhaps out-of-normal-reality?? This is something I struggle with, because I tend now to think it was just me subconsciously putting one and one together.

I know exactly what you mean by this. How many times have you learned a new word only then to hear it used several times in the next conversation by someone else. I think this is similar to what you are saying and is called confirmation bias.

Confirmation bias causes people to give weight to instances base on their willingness to perceive it…don’t perceive it---it didn’t happen. That is, if you are looking for paranormal occurrences (ghosts) and something strange happens you are likely to attribute it to being a paranormal occurrence. A non-event is not worth recording in your memory or analysis and therefore all the other times you have not seen a ghost seems irrelevant.

I am not convinced this is always the case with paranormal observations, however. I am just saying I understand and would argue that confirmation bias accounts for a majority of ghost/paranormal claims.

To respond to your inquiry, I do not think you would see any “ghost” when standing next to someone who really can unless you are “meant” or “allowed” to see it, whatever I mean by that.

 

[Graphimancer]

You've brought up some valid points, both of you.

Usually, unless you were skilled at seeing entities yourself, you would see nothing if you stood next to me and I saw something. Today, for example, in open studio, the spirit of a woman who often comes around the art center I believe to take part in the creative energies came by. Her arrival was very clear to me, but no one else reacted when she showed up.

On the surface, then sounds like magical thinking, or psychosis or some sort, or overactive imagination. Confirmation comes when other sensitives are around, and they detect the manifestation as well. I've been part of group encounters like this several times, and once even with this aforementioned spirit.

I've seen ghost that took on physical manifestations twice that I know of in my life. Once, a few years back, I saw a mist manifestation in a Noblesville, Indiana graveyard. Anyone who was there could have seen it, and it was a daytime encounter on a sunny, clear day. To be honest, I felt awed and honored to have witnessed this.

I'm more of an experiencer than a ghost hunter. I've never had to go looking for them, and don't need proof. I do know a ghost hunter who operated out of Converse Indiana, and he has had some very memorable experiences.

In relation to a ghost allowing or not allowing you to see it, I don't think it works that way. If you have the sight to see it, you'll see it. If the ghost goes to the effort to gather energy and take on a form or exert physical force, anyone will see or experience it. It's my understanding that those famous cold spots associated with haunting are areas where a ghost just extracted the ambient energy to take action.

 

[Graphimancer]

So where does this leave us as to the nature of the experiences?? Is it real in a sense, do you think, that there IS some actual communication or appearance by beings(whatever they are) OR is it some imaginative and creative part of ourselves that projects and conjures imagery and experience??

You know, any sane person would have to wonder if this was a long, well-constructed self-delusion, or a shadow psychosis or some sort.

Chaos magicians will often commune with god forms--these are part of the magician's own psyche that they give a name and image to. The magician knows that it is not a separate being, with external existence. The point in this case is to negotiate with one's own subconscious, and maybe get enlightenment that you know on one level but not on a conscious level. This is not what ghosts are.

Shamans are masters of entering a trance state, a very high level state of altered consciousnous, and communing with spirits (usually nature spirits) to find answers for his community. The shaman might ask about health issues for single people, or broader questions for whole groups. These spirits can be quarrelsome, dangerous, or lying, so the shaman has to know how to command and deal with the spirits. These spirits, while external to the shaman, are not ghosts in most likelihood.

In this day and age, and in the Western world, we have lost much of our mysticism. This is good and bad. When we see primitive churches where people dance with poisonous snakes, or churches where people get struck with the holy spirit and start speaking in tongues (glossolalia), we assume that these people are poorly educated or ignorant. While i'm not going to argue against this view, I will say there is a role for mystic experiences in the human culture that is positive and mind-opening.

Ah, I could go on and on about this stuff. Sorry for digressing.

 

[Raevenskye]

Even tho I'm a believer and experiencer, I'm still a semi-skeptic, if that makes sense. I usually don't accept "ghost" as the first answer, unless there are no others. Of course, I also choose to believe if it "was" or "wasn't" based on how I feel about the situation: sometimes my hubby leaves the cabinets open...sometimes they open on their own..in front of me.
When I talk about these kinds of things, often people will say "oh! I'd love to see a ghost!!"...and I always reply "be careful what you wish for!".
Usually anyone who is around me long enough will have some experiences, and it doesn't seem to matter if they're believers or not. Anyone who has been to my house has had similar experiences, and have seen the same "people" on separate occasions, and if they stay the night, there are other things that happen, that they all experience: voices...lights, etc. I don't tell them that these things will happen, they ask me about it in the morning. In fact, I haven't given anyone specifics about my house, but visitors always know.
I don't think you have to have anything special or be able to "do", "see", etc to have a ghostly encounter. They just happen. It's how you interpret what you've seen that makes a diff (was it a ghost? was it car lights?).

 

[Graphimancer]

In regards to skepticism, I often have a "I can't believe what I'm seeing," or "I can't believe what is happening to me" kind of reaction to the paranormal. I've never tried, though, to disprove things that I see that seem obvious. It's like, if you were hit by a red car, would you later wonder "was I really hit by a car, or did I imagine it?" Most people wouldn't question it that way.

Do you have to be special or empathic to see a ghost? Clearly, when they manifest, no. If the ghost goes to the effort to move something, or assume an image that is visible, or what have you, then people, cameras, audio recording devices, all of that works.

Most hauntings don't reach that point, however. Most ghosts are simply astral entities. In this form, they may be visible to empaths or sensitives, but not to cameras or the naked eye. The world is teeming with these spirits. Many of them do learn how to gather energy and affect our physical reality, but most don't bother.

I sound pretty sure of what I know, because I've had a lifetime of interraction and time to think about these things. Does that automatically mean everything I say is correct, and that I've arrived at all the right conclusions over the years? Of course not. I think I'm right, but I'm not afraid to entertain other ideas too.

Thanks to those who participated in this thread. I've had a little time now, and the issues that bothered me when I began this don't seem as pressing now. I still have doubts about the usefulness of this ability, but then those same perceptual abilities also power my work as an artist. So, I'll put up with it and abide.

 

[Jose Collado]

A true skeptic would get up off the street, take the license plate number and say "Man, that red car hurt". There's a car and plenty of reference material to prove it's a car. The colour is red and there's plenty of proof to back it including manufacturing colour code. The car hit the skeptic and he has a sore ass to show for it.

Now the question is. Was it accidental?

 

[Graphimancer]

Umm...OK.