September 23, 2007 Episode

[Gene Steinberg]

A matter of publicity strategy and location. We were in the Philadelphia area, but the convention was a little too far from "Center City," which meant up to a 45 minute drive for city residents. We might have paid a little more to stage this event at a suburban location closer to the city, but I think we would have attracted a far greater audience. That's just for starters.

Since it was over 30 years ago, forgive me if I don't have all the fine details at hand. But that's what stands out.

Ah I see, well luckily that's a particular situation I can take care of. I've fortunately established relationships with downtown venue people so finding a good central location shouldn't be a problem.

The main thing I haven't figured out is... a rock show and a lecture are such wildly different things with different moods - A lecture is generally a calm and rational affair while a rock show is a more loud & crazy situation. What is the best way to combine them?

Normally in public events the calmer show is scheduled first and the louder show is last, but ideally I'd like the lecture to be last so that everyone who comes to the show will stick around for the lecture. If the lecture is first, then people might not bother showing up until the bands are playing, and that ruins the whole purpose of the event.

But if the lecture is second, then with people all hyped-up from the show they probably wouldn't want to chill out and pay attention to a calm dude who's just up there talking. They'd probably be in a rowdy/intoxicated mood and I wouldn't want anyone to be loud and disrespect the lecturer.

So basically I'm still trying to figure out the best way to organize it so that the maximum number of people show up for the lecture.

Gene did your event involve music? If so, how did you arrange the music and the speakers?

We never considered music in those days.

 

[tommyball]

I really like your idea Brandon.

Would you restrict lecturers to individuals on the level of Dolan, Kimball and Maccabbee?

It sounds like you certainly have experience and contacts in the music/concert/DJ arena and you've probably thought of this, but presentations of Kimballs film or Out of The Blue could be centerpieces of the event.

-todd.

 

[Verum]

BrandonD wrote..

I think it's really possible that these lecturers could get the word out to a greater number of people than the usual "choir".

Well, the fundamental problem isn't getting the word out. The "word's" been out for decades, with enormous exposure in every media, from movies to internet. The problem is that the "word" stinks. There's no credible proof, developed by credible people using a verifiable scientific methodology that there's anything substantive to the UFO issue. Worse still, the whole "ufology" business simply has no resonance in the day-to-day lives of most people who see it as a minor distraction from the "real issues", like earning a living and raising a family.

Connecting good music to a UFO convention will be like wrapping dog crap in pie.

 

[BrandonD]

Connecting good music to a UFO convention will be like wrapping dog crap in pie.

So you say, but if the organizers of such an event allowed only credible and sensible people in the ufo field to be involved, then your scenario wouldn't necessarily be the case. I'm not interested in "popularizing" ufology. I'm interested in exposing people to legitimate ufo information, when normally they're only exposed to hype and silliness.

 

[BrandonD]

I really like your idea Brandon.

Would you restrict lecturers to individuals on the level of Dolan, Kimball and Maccabbee?

It sounds like you certainly have experience and contacts in the music/concert/DJ arena and you've probably thought of this, but presentations of Kimballs film or Out of The Blue could be centerpieces of the event.

-todd.

Screening a film would be a great idea actually. Especially Kimball's film since I haven't seen it yet (I must have watched Out of the Blue a dozen times by now). But ideally I'd also like an actual speaker who has some sort of expertise in the area so that perhaps people could ask questions or talk further with them.

If I were to organize such an event I wouldn't necessarily restrict the lecturers to the "big names" with a media presence. But it would be important that they'd have some experience in public speaking and be very knowledgable on the subject.

 

[Verum]

Brandon wrote

but if the organizers of such an event allowed only credible and sensible people in the ufo field to be involved, then your scenario wouldn't necessarily be the case.

Is there any UFO conference ever that didn't think it was presenting only "credible and sensible" people? Again, having been around this subject as a dispassionate observer for many years it seems to me the issue isn't the format of conventions and/or exposing the uninitiated to something new, it's the underlying data and message. But it's intriguing watching what may be the birth of a new concept/enterprise. Good luck with it.

 

[BrandonD]

Brandon wrote

but if the organizers of such an event allowed only credible and sensible people in the ufo field to be involved, then your scenario wouldn't necessarily be the case.

Is there any UFO conference ever that didn't think it was presenting only "credible and sensible" people? Again, having been around this subject as a dispassionate observer for many years it seems to me the issue isn't the format of conventions and/or exposing the uninitiated to something new, it's the underlying data and message. But it's intriguing watching what may be the birth of a new concept/enterprise. Good luck with it.

I actually don't think we should assume that the organizers of ufo events think they're providing credible and sensible people. I don't think that's always their prime motivation. I think that more often than not people are motivated by profit. Especially today, when more than ever the value of something is judged by whether or not it can generate money.

I'm not rich by any means but I'm financially comfortable, so I'd be fine if I didn't make a dime out of it. I only want the event to be successful. So removing the profit aspect is one thing that I think makes an enormous difference in the integrity of such a venture.


Along with this is the fact that it's impossible to simply present data objectively without an underlying message. (Anyone who tells you differently is feeding you an underlying message right there!) Even the encyclopedia brittanica has an underlying message, because the information was provided by humans.

Having said that, my personal bias in any field is towards those people who are passionate about the subject, but can communicate in a calm and non-dramatic way. This type of communication says to me that the person is not trying to persuade the audience with emotional hooks and rhetorical flourishes, but is appealing to the thinking part of the audience.

I can be cynical about certain things, but I still think that there are people out there who genuinely want to learn, but are rather lost in the sea of BS and showmanship that constantly floods the media. This goes for other subjects as well as ufos. If I can figure out a way, I'd like to provide a means for these people to access information. One can't be objective in their presentation of the info, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

Thanks for the good luck wishes.

 

[CapnG]

Honestly Brandon, there's no way I can see your idea working and I mean EVER. You cannot mix a rock concert with a lecture. You certainly can't hope any of the attendees will walk away "informed", espescially since many of the concert goers will probably be on something. The whole thing would be a waste of time for all involved, the musicians wouldn't make nearly as much money as they would touring by themselves, the lecturers wouldn't be received as seriously as they would need to be and the audience is probably going to be composed of people with mostly the wrong idea as to what the event is about. Throw in the fact that the media would have a field day reporting it (doubly so if it was a failure) and you have a recipie for disaster. I can't possibly see how such a venue could do anything but hurt the UFO topic more than it would help.

 

[Verum]

Brandon wrote..

I think that more often than not people are motivated by profit.

I suspect you're right, that they all hope to turn a profit. It would be interesting to get your hands on some honest financials and develop your own pro forma. From what I've heard and read most of them are financial busts. I heard Gene just recently mention that Jim Moseley lost money on the mother of all conventions back in '66/'67. (I was there, at the old Commodore in New York, when I was a very young man. Even then it was a pretty strange and unfocused affair. In fact, it was the last time I went to a non-business convention.)

I don't think it will work, and CapnG also questions it. But there's nothing worse than letting a bunch of naysayers keep you from doing something that just might be a homerun. If you're prepared to take a financial hit (just in case) and have the passion for it, what's the worse that happens? You deliver the Edsel of UFO conventions and, like the car, it lives on forever in legend.

 

[devan]

Peter Resta is running a one day class at Anne Arundel Community College in Maryland next month with some pretty credible researchers.

Rob and Sue Swiatek, Carl Feindt, Bruce Maccabee, Don Berliner and Dick Hall are scheduled to be there. Dick Hall is somewhat controversial, but he's also been around a while and does have quite a bit of experience.

The course is called "Mysteries of Space and Sky" and is intended to " Reflect on 60 years of ufology. Study both historical UFO cases and recent sightings...".

 

[BrandonD]

Honestly Brandon, there's no way I can see your idea working and I mean EVER. You cannot mix a rock concert with a lecture. You certainly can't hope any of the attendees will walk away "informed", espescially since many of the concert goers will probably be on something. The whole thing would be a waste of time for all involved, the musicians wouldn't make nearly as much money as they would touring by themselves, the lecturers wouldn't be received as seriously as they would need to be and the audience is probably going to be composed of people with mostly the wrong idea as to what the event is about. Throw in the fact that the media would have a field day reporting it (doubly so if it was a failure) and you have a recipie for disaster. I can't possibly see how such a venue could do anything but hurt the UFO topic more than it would help.

I understand what you're getting at, but I have a slightly different point of view.

Firstly, I don't really care about the public image of ufology all that much. For one, it's out of my hands - people with MUCH bigger wallets than mine are calling the shots. Plus it's been my observation that people who obsess about the public impression of ufology are suffering from an overdose of self-importance (not referring to you). When it comes to "the masses", the thing I consider most important is providing access to information for those with an interest or a potential interest.

Regarding the media having a field day, the small-scale plan I'm considering wouldn't involve a big band like The White Stripes or anything of that size, so I can't imagine it would generate much attention outside of Houston. Inside Houston it might get a bit of attention because I have a few friends in the independent papers out here. In the big picture I can't see it making that much of a splash, but like I said, I'm not trying to "transform ufology", just provide information access to people and perhaps have a good time while I'm at it.

Thirdly, you're making an awful lot of assumptions about people who go to rock concerts. I'm going to guess from your statement "many of the concert goers will probably be on something" that you don't actually go to many concerts. I for one happen to go to a lot of them and I also happen to perform at a lot of them, and I tried my first "illegal" drug last year (age 30). Additionally, when someone like Noam Chomsky is giving a dry lecture at the local university I get just as excited as I do for a rock show. I have friends who are the same, so it's possbile that the people out there have more facets than the stereotypes would suggest.

Still, I understand the problems you bring up. I've organized several rock shows in the past, but before I tried to organize anything like this, I'd first and foremost make sure that the event was worth the speaker's time.

 

[tommyball]

Regarding the media having a field day, the small-scale plan I'm considering wouldn't involve a big band like The White Stripes or anything of that size, so I can't imagine it would generate much attention outside of Houston. Inside Houston it might get a bit of attention because I have a few friends in the independent papers out here. In the big picture I can't see it making that much of a splash, but like I said, I'm not trying to "transform ufology", just provide information access to people and perhaps have a good time while I'm at it.

You've got a great plan, Brandon.

I think at this point it (and by "it" I mean the progress of understanding this phenomena or if you want to call it, ufology) is about spreading credible information on the subject. That information is out there it's just a matter of getting it to the public and bypassing the regular media which either ignores it altogether or presents show after show about Roswell.

In the week or so since the X-Conference, I've been very surprised by the interest people have shown when asking me about it. Almost everyone (girlfriend, family, friends etc..) has been genuinely interested in the subject once I explained about some of the real cases and evidence I saw presented (Richard Dolan's lecture, The Mamlstrom AFB case, the Rockefeller initiative, Paul Kimball's film). The interest is out there and I think Joe Public needs more than Roswell or Kenneth Arnold's sighting.

Your approach might be the right thing to bring it to a new audience. Conferences are great but one has to have more than a casual interest in the subject to pay to attend or even know about one.

Please keep us updated as your plans progress.

-todd.

 

[valiens]

For anyone who wants to put on a festival like that, it's possible. I did it last June. It's going to be bigger next year.

The music really draws the young crowd in but we were working in separate venues for speakers, movies, music, art, staged reading of a play--and really didn't cross-pollinate well. I mean my big screw up was not getting the club kids to go to the other events but that was because I didn't realize that the music would pack 'em in. I thought the same people would show up for music as they did for movies, etc.

Nope. Totally different crowd.

So if you're going to throw a bash, make sure you advertise all of the various events at each location.

Also, try to have a running theme or two and not a hodge-podge of speakers for no apparent reason. Streamline it. Quality over quantity.

This is what I've learned. Good luck.

--j

 

[cottonzway]

I didn't get a chance to listen to last week's show and I am listening to it now. Let em just say a big "F U!" to whoever brough up the 9/11 "space beam" crap at the X-Conference. Judy Wood and Morgan Reyonds can go to hell for starting this disinfo nonense!

 

[David Biedny]

I didn't get a chance to listen to last week's show and I am listening to it now. Let em just say a big "F U!" to whoever brough up the 9/11 "space beam" crap at the X-Conference. Judy Wood and Morgan Reyonds can go to hell for starting this disinfo nonense!

I seem to remember that Jeremy V. told me that those words of wisdom came from the mouth of Alfred Webre. I was fortunate enough to miss that particular presentation.

 

[cottonzway]

I didn't get a chance to listen to last week's show and I am listening to it now. Let em just say a big "F U!" to whoever brough up the 9/11 "space beam" crap at the X-Conference. Judy Wood and Morgan Reyonds can go to hell for starting this disinfo nonense!

I seem to remember that Jeremy V. told me that those words of wisdom came from the mouth of Alfred Webre. I was fortunate enough to miss that particular presentation.

It really made me upset to hear this was going on at a UFO conference. I have been involved and been following "9/11 Truth" or whatever people care to call it for years now and those concepts were started by liars (and yes that "agent" term does apply IMO to those who started this farce of a lie) and it is sadly being passed around as something to even consider. I consider it insulting to consider it at all.

 

[Ron Collins]

I flew to Denver this year and attended the MUFON Symposium. It was my first time to go to one of these and took a long time to muster the nerve to go. I feel its important to look into the topics surrounding UFO's but I am not eager to be labeled as a nut job.

I stood outside and prepared myself to wade through the tin foil hat crowd. Thankfully it was nothing like that. Sure there were a few colorfull characters. A couple of guys touting Bob Lazar and a speech by the Nutty Professor but they were in the minority. Most of the speakers and attendees were very serious about the topic and were there to learn and share.

It has inspired me to really delve deeper into the topic and continue to sift through the mountain of garbage out there. I only bring this up because I thought seriously about attending this one. But, when I looked at the speaker list and started to research these guys I noticed that for every credible speaker there were some who were not so... confidence inspiring.

Someone said that Bassett has backers and it is his responsibility to put butts in seats. The businessman in me acknowledges the sense in that. However, he has to know that this is exactly what ostracizes him in official circles.

Bassett wants players in Washington to come to this conference and hear the "truth". After hearing it they will be so ashamed and disgusted at the lies told to the unsuspecting masses that they will stand up and herald the age of disclosure. YET, he invites people to speak that (and this may get me in trouble with some of you) most people would not and could not believe. He has allied himself with demonstrably incredulous characters and still wants himself and this conference to be taken seriously

It comes down to credibility. The only way to win the masses over to start demanding answers is to give them something they can easily believe in. Something that isn’t too much of a stretch of their imagination. AND, you have to win in the credibility department.

The general public doesn't have an open mind. They watch a 15 to 25 second video clip and make a judgment.

I am saddened to think that there might have been someone trying to decide if this phenomenon was worth their time and attention like I was when I flew to Denver that attended this conference. I can imagine them hearing some of the crap spewed by these guys and made the opposite decision.

David, I would suggest that you trek out to San Jose next year for the MUFON Symposium. If it is anything like this year, you will not be disappointed.

Ron

 

[valiens]

I didn't get a chance to listen to last week's show and I am listening to it now. Let em just say a big "F U!" to whoever brough up the 9/11 "space beam" crap at the X-Conference. Judy Wood and Morgan Reyonds can go to hell for starting this disinfo nonense!

I seem to remember that Jeremy V. told me that those words of wisdom came from the mouth of Alfred Webre. I was fortunate enough to miss that particular presentation.

It really made me upset to hear this was going on at a UFO conference. I have been involved and been following "9/11 Truth" or whatever people care to call it for years now and those concepts were started by liars (and yes that "agent" term does apply IMO to those who started this farce of a lie) and it is sadly being passed around as something to even consider. I consider it insulting to consider it at all.

I have the audio of it about 2/3rds of the way into the podcast here:

http://blog.valiens.com/2007/09/25/culture-of-contact-episode-7-disclosure-deconstructed-a-rock-opera.aspx

Right after Webre says what he says, Richard Dolan properly chastises everyone. I don't have time code on it so probably the easiest way to find it is to forward through until you see Dolan's photo and work back from there. It's between Stephen Bassett's photo and Dolan's.

Actually, listening to it now, the photo that's up while he's speaking is of Nick Pope, Me, and Kris McBride. He. Is. CRAZY.

 

[cottonzway]

I have the audio of it about 2/3rds of the way into the podcast here:

http://blog.valiens.com/2007/09/25/culture-of-contact-episode-7-disclosure-deconstructed-a-rock-opera.aspx

Right after Webre says what he says, Richard Dolan properly chastises everyone. I don't have time code on it so probably the easiest way to find it is to forward through until you see Dolan's photo and work back from there. It's between Stephen Bassett's photo and Dolan's.

Actually, listening to it now, the photo that's up while he's speaking is of Nick Pope, Me, and Kris McBride. He. Is. CRAZY.

I knew I reconized that name. Alfred Webre. Yeah, he has a lot of ties to the well know "9/11 Disinfo crowd" who spews out pure bullshit to get people away from any reasonable debate on 9/11. He may as well be crazy but that info he spews is not "crazy by accident" but rather "crazy on purpose" coming from real CONITELPRO people who have infested the 9/11 truth movement. These assholes drag others into their garbage and try to associate themselves with people who have legit information so they can attach themselves to reasonable people while also discrediting the reasonable people. He sounds crazy and is an asshole for sure.

 

[Apocalypto]

Honestly Brandon, there's no way I can see your idea working and I mean EVER. You cannot mix a rock concert with a lecture. You certainly can't hope any of the attendees will walk away "informed", espescially since many of the concert goers will probably be on something. The whole thing would be a waste of time for all involved, the musicians wouldn't make nearly as much money as they would touring by themselves, the lecturers wouldn't be received as seriously as they would need to be and the audience is probably going to be composed of people with mostly the wrong idea as to what the event is about. Throw in the fact that the media would have a field day reporting it (doubly so if it was a failure) and you have a recipie for disaster. I can't possibly see how such a venue could do anything but hurt the UFO topic more than it would help.

I understand what you're getting at, but I have a slightly different point of view.

Firstly, I don't really care about the public image of ufology all that much.

I'd have to agree with you there. It's not even worth the energy to care what the public thinks about ufology. The average person's thoughts are so simple it's downright scary, and usually include such major issues as what Britney Spears is up to, the NFL or what happened in the last episode of "Grey's Anatomy" or "Dancing with the Stars".

The public image of ufology is what it is due to primarily one thing, a <i>lack of verifiable and undeniable public sightings</i>, as opposed to an abundance. As much as we - we being the folks who are very interested in UFOs (interested enough to listen to shows like the Paracast and use forums like this) - sometimes like to think that there has been in the past (and continues to be) a significant amount of UFO sightings, there really hasn't. Sure, there have been TONS on record, but obviously not enough to <b>render UFOs a reality in the mind's of the public...</b>

In order for the general public to show true interest in UFOs and ufology in general, there will have to be disclosure, massive, worldwide simultaneous, undeniable sightings or some combination thereof. Let's face it, this is all still fringe stuff, and will continue to remain so under the circumstances.

We truly interested folks are very much the minority. It's due to the reality of the UFO field. Your average guy on the street who may think there <i>might</i> be UFOs visiting Earth will most likely back down when pushed on the point of whether or not ufology deserves the same level of respect as the other "ologies".

As far as the average person probably thinks, the fact that someone even coined the phrase "ufology" is a bit of a self-righteous stretch; should ufology have the same respect as pyschology, biology or meterology?? They probably wouldn't think so.

Once there are HUGE, PUBLIC, WORLDWIDE sightings of UFOs, Ufology (with a capital "U") will come of age and finally get the respect it deserves. Right now it's a mixed back of legit scientists, con artists and people from just about every other walk of life, even Photoshop experts. (just teasing, David)