September 8th 2013 Micah A. Hanks and Scott Alan Roberts

[LeBombette]

Just listened to the episode and found parts very enjoyable, but I did think the guests were a little dismissive of the forum questions posed. Pierre and Polterwurst had some great questions about Von Daniken and I was hoping this might spark a good discussion about his research which is very questionable and yet the basis of most other Ancient Alien theorist. To say that it's ok he committed fraud because there wasn't Internet back when he was doing research or the past is just the past was pretty ludicrous. There are lots of people spoken about on the show that are certainly not given a free pass on sketchy backgrounds. As far as my question...it is NOT historical fact that Hitler was a member of the Thule society. The claim that he was is something promoted by bad history channel documentaries and crypto-historians. I'm not saying that documentation could turn up to prove that Hitler believed the theories of the Thule society but as of now there is no documentation of that. Overall, it was an interesting show but may have worked better with just one guest. As always though, thanks to Gene and Chris for doing the show and making an effort to put forth a varied lineup of guests.

 

[RenikNorthEngland]

It was a decent show with the conversation going in some interesting directions although at times the topics were skated over and not delved into too much. The arising controversy about Hitler and the Thule society has captured me- Mr. Roberts stated that Hitler was a card carrying member, in a way that suggested he knew this for a fact. I wonder from what sources does he base that knowledge? I thought he was an active member after reading it in some books but LeBombette's question and forum response has peaked my interest to know more.

I like the idea of ancient cultures removed from human existence as we know it, but surviving as we have since the mysterious beginnings. Perhaps there was a conscious decision to remove themselves through some kind of opinion or even knowledge of the future of human civilization. Or they could be the ones guiding and controlling, hoarding the knowledge and using it against us to achieve some unknown goal- I don't like this idea.

There's a Bill Hicks stand up show from London where he reenacts the evolution of man to the space odyssey 2001 theme tune- beginning with a monkey foreging for food and discovering a mushroom patch...he eats a couple, has a bit of a giggle, then he looks up at the sky. He stands up and say's "Dude, I think we can go to the moon." It highlights perfectly the idea that the ancients could have based some of what they knew on these kind of spirit walk, dream-state, and hallucinagenic type experiences, which could also have included interractions with other forms of consciousness from which new things were learned and applied to daily lives.

There's a fascinating Nordic story - supposedly factual- I have been meaning to look into but the details escape me - it's about a man and his son (I think) who take a vessel to some remote location through storms and all kinds of nasty weather, then they're resued by these tall beings who take them back to their home where they stay for two years. Does anyone know the title of this story?

The Edward Bulwer Lytton book is called The Coming Race- I think Scott mentioned it but couldn't remember the title. It's an awesome book. http://www.free-ebooks.net/ebook/The-Coming-Race/pdf/view

 

[bonaventura]

It was a decent show with the conversation going in some interesting directions although at times the topics were skated over and not delved into too much. The arising controversy about Hitler and the Thule society has captured me- Mr. Roberts stated that Hitler was a card carrying member, in a way that suggested he knew this for a fact. I wonder from what sources does he base that knowledge? I thought he was an active member after reading it in some books but LeBombette's question and forum response has peaked my interest to know more.

It's amazing how much nonsense was spawned by Pauwel's and Bergier's immensely entertaining but factually challenged The Morning of the Magicians.

 

[LeBombette]

@RenikNorthEngland I believe history is a dynamic study...its always changing...all it takes is finding one letter, one photograph, etc. to prove a previously held notion wrong so maybe one day someone will find Hitler's Thule Society membership card at a garage sale and Mr. Roberts will be proven right. However, the idea that Hitler was a card carrying member of the Thule society is one that has no proof whatsoever. It's just an assumption that has been written about and put on the History channel so much that people believe it to be truth. Hitler had an association with the Thule Society, but that's as far as any "proof" takes it. There is no documentation that he ever even attended a meeting. You may want to take a look at the book, The Occult Roots of Nazism" by Goodrick-Clarke.

This is Wikipedia, which is not so reliable, but whoever wrote this entry was a definite fan of Goodrick-Clarke's work and posted some good info...here's a quote from the page that helps explain where this notion originate.

Goodrick-Clarke examines several pseudo-historic "books written about Nazi occultism between 1960 and 1975", that "were typically sensational and under-researched".[35] He terms this genre "crypto-history", as its defining element and "final point of explanatory reference is an agent which has remained concealed to previous historians of National Socialism".[4] Characteristic tendencies of this literature include: (1) "a complete ignorance of primary sources" and (2) the repetition of "inaccuracies and wild claims", without the attempt being made to confirm even "wholly spurious 'facts'".[36] Books debunked in Appendix E of The Occult Roots of Nazism are:

• Louis Pauwels and Jacques Bergier, 1960, The Morning of the Magicians[37]
• Dietrich Bronder, 1964, Bevor Hitler kam[38]
• Trevor Ravenscroft, 1972, The Spear of Destiny[39]
• Michel-Jean Angbert, 1971, Les mystiques du soleil[11]
• J.H. Brennan, 1974, Occult Reich[38]

These books are only mentioned in the Appendix. Otherwise the whole book by Goodrick-Clarke does without any reference to this kind of literature; it uses other sources. This literature is not reliable; however, books published after the emergence of The Occult Roots of Nazism continue to repeat claims that have been proven false:

• Wulf Schwarzwaller, 1988, The Unknown Hitler[40]
• Alan Baker, 2000, Invisible Eagle. The History of Nazi Occultism[41]