Sh*t Apple Fanatics Say, Part 1

[Muadib]

NDE's are most likely the product of a dying brain, as evidenced by numerous studies that observed the same effects in pilots that are subjected to high G forces. They black out and have the same exact "experiences" as those who have NDE's, only they aren't dead or even close to it. Which goes a long way towards explaining why NDE's are almost all different and seem to follow exactly what the subjects prior beliefs about the afterlife encompassed.

 

[stonehart]

I am going to save you some finger skin. I don't debate on forums, there isn't a more ludicrous place to attempt to carry on one.

Regardless, the well studied NDEs alone provide enough evidence about afterlife that the facts are irrefutable by anyone - with an open mind, a skint of reason and a hint of logic.

If you simply must get your butt burned on the subject of afterlife, take it up with Alex Tsarikis. He specializes in skewering the unwise.

Whatever you can not back up the claim so bow out as no reputable scientific institution has ever said that there is solid evidence for an after life.

One other member here has already said "go away" to you.

The ignore button has its use and I have only ever used it a very few times in all the time I have been here.

*** click ***

 

[Muadib]

He meant the pseudoscience community has all the evidence it needs, whether he realizes it or not. Mediums? Bwahahahaha. Take that table tapping nonsense and hit the bricks.

 

[stonehart]

He meant the pseudoscience community has all the evidence it needs, whether he realizes it or not. Mediums? Bwahahahaha. Take that table tapping nonsense and hit the bricks.

hahahaha I love how you put things Muadib ... cut to the bone.

 

[Wade]

If you believe in an afterlife,
And I do,
Then I would say he looks
A heck of a lot better than you.

I don't need my power of clairvoyance

to see you posts are meant to cause annoyance

so I will try to ignore,
until you're thrown out the door

only to bother others with your flamboyance

 

[stonehart]

That guy still posting in here?

This requires a special song for special people don't you think guys

 

[Muadib]

Who to believe, who to believe. 30 years of personal experiences, Dean Radin, Ian Stevenson, Atwater, Long, Shuldrake, etc. etc. etc. or a couple of Forum List Brothers...one of which believes that video games are the equal of great novels.

Tough choices. rofl

30 years of raping the ignorant for their hard earned money. Good for you. I'm sure you'll be well rewarded in your imaginary afterlife. Rofl.

 

[Randall]

NDE's are most likely the product of a dying brain, as evidenced by numerous studies that observed the same effects in pilots that are subjected to high G forces. They black out and have the same exact "experiences" as those who have NDE's, only they aren't dead or even close to it. Which goes a long way towards explaining why NDE's are almost all different and seem to follow exactly what the subjects prior beliefs about the afterlife encompassed.

So you are saying that pilot blackouts aren't periods of unconsciousness, but rather periods where they seem to mysteriously float up out of their bodies and look back down on themselves in the simulator or whatever? Please post that link up. I'd like to check that out.

 

[Muadib]

So you are saying that pilot blackouts aren't periods of unconsciousness, but rather periods where they seem to mysteriously float up out of their bodies and look back down on themselves in the simulator or whatever? Please post that link up. I'd like to check that out.

Actually they are one and the same. During their testing when they're exposed to high G's, they found that pilots would black out and get the tunnel thing that is talked about in NDE's so often, plus they would see dead relatives, hear voices, meet spiritual beings, etc. It was in a Nova documentary about Near Death Experiences if I'm not mistaken, I'm looking for the video now and will post it when I find it.

 

[Muadib]

Here's another bit about it including the name of the Dr. who conducted the study for the military while I search for the video that I can't seem to find:

It turns out that extensive research has been done to characterize a person's experience with loss of blood to the brain when there is no risk of death, by that patron saint of human experimentation, the US military. For 15 years, Dr. James Whinnery put hundreds of healthy young fighter pilots into centrifuges to understand what a pilot might experience under extreme gravitational loads. He put them in until they blacked out. Once they reached a point where there was inadequate bloodflow to the brain, they lost consciousness; and among the frequently reported experiences were the following: Bright light, floating through a tunnel, out of body experiences, vivid dreams of beautiful places, euphoria, rapid memories of past events, meeting with friends and family, and more. The list is an exact match with the events attributed by believers to a brush with the afterlife.

 

[Randall]

Here's another bit about it including the name of the Dr. who conducted the study for the military while I search for the video that I can't seem to find:

It turns out that extensive research has been done to characterize a person's experience with loss of blood to the brain when there is no risk of death, by that patron saint of human experimentation, the US military. For 15 years, Dr. James Whinnery put hundreds of healthy young fighter pilots into centrifuges to understand what a pilot might experience under extreme gravitational loads. He put them in until they blacked out. Once they reached a point where there was inadequate bloodflow to the brain, they lost consciousness; and among the frequently reported experiences were the following: Bright light, floating through a tunnel, out of body experiences, vivid dreams of beautiful places, euphoria, rapid memories of past events, meeting with friends and family, and more. The list is an exact match with the events attributed by believers to a brush with the afterlife.

Interesting ... thanks. Do you recall if any of the OOBEs included seeing themselves strapped inside the pod and observing the doctors like we've got from some hospital patients? I recall one experiment in a hospital where a readout was placed on top of a cabinet in an OR out of view of the patient, so that if they had an OOBE they should be able to float up and see it and recall what it says. I've not heard of anyone being successful at that yet.

 

[Muadib]

Interesting ... thanks. Do you recall if any of the OOBEs included seeing themselves strapped inside the pod and observing the doctors like we've got from some hospital patients? I recall one experiment in a hospital where a readout was placed on top of a cabinet in an OR out of view of the patient, so that if they had an OOBE they should be able to float up and see it and recall what it says. I've not heard of anyone being successful at that yet.

OOBEs were reported but I can't recall them mentioning whether or not they observed the pod, doctors or the room around them. I am aware of the type of experiments that you're talking about and I haven't heard of anyone successfully pulling that off either, which to me further proves that these experiences are likely the product of a dying brain, but in the end, who really knows? I certainly don't know for sure, I can only offer my opinion.

 

[Muadib]

Here's a little more about the experiment that I found:

Scientific research has tried to unlock the secrets of death and what happens to consciousness after death. Our scientific understanding of the mind / brain chemistry involved in the processes of death remains relatively limited. In spite of the findings reported from these studies, little emphasis has been placed on the loss of consciousness. The results of the loss and recovery of consciousness experiments in healthy humans may provide insight into the normal processes in the brain that occurs in association with NDEs.

This report focuses on the mind/brain events associated with acceleration gravitationally-induced loss of consciousness, also known as G-LOC, in completely healthy individuals. Acceleration of gravitational stress is a unique aspect of flying fighter aircraft during aerial combat maneuvering. Modern fighter aircraft can attain high levels of gravitational forces that puts most humans at risk for G-LOC.

The gravitational-stress reduces blood flow to the head and causes pooling of blood in the abdomen and extremities which result in G-LOC. A solution for the G-LOC problem requires a thorough understanding of the alterations of consciousness. Although preventing further losses of aircrew and aircraft is the goal of fighter aviation medicine, the results from experiments involving G-LOC in completely healthy humans should be of interest to a broad range of scientific disciplines.

The results to be discussed represent data collected from over fifteen years of acceleration research and more than 700 episodes of G-LOC that occurred in fighter aircraft and during gravitational centrifuge exposure. The research subjects averaged in age of 32 years. All of them were healthy after having successfully completed a military physical examination. The G-LOC episodes from the centrifuge were all recorded on videotape for analysis.

When gravitational stress is applied well above tolerance, there is a short time period during which normal brain function persists, despite loss of adequate blood flow. At the end of this period, consciousness is lost, and the gravitational stress is reduced back to normal conditions. The length of the unconsciousness averaged 12 seconds with a -5 to +5 standard deviation and a range of 2 to 38 seconds. The estimated average length of time blood flow to the central nervous system was altered during the loss and recovery of consciousness was approximately 15 to 20 seconds.

Convulsive activity was observed in 70% of the G-LOC episodes. The convulsive activity began on the average 7.7 seconds after the onset of unconsciousness and lasted 3.9 seconds. The convulsions would cease with the return of consciousness. Upon recovery of consciousness, there is a period of relative incapacitation that lasts on the average about 12 seconds, in which there exists confusion/disorientation.
It is possible to classify the G-LOC episodes. The G-LOC experience includes specific visual symptoms (tunnel vision through blackout), convulsive activity, memory alterations, dreamlets, and other psychological symptoms. The major, overall G-LOC experience characteristics that have commonality with NDEs are shown below.

Tunnel vision / bright light

Floating

Automatic movement

Autoscopy

Out-of-body experience

Not wanting to be disturbed

Paralysis

Vivid dreamlets / beautiful places
a. Euphoria
b. Dissociation

Pleasurable

Psychologic state alteration

Friends / family inclusion

Prior memories / thoughts inclusion

Very memorable (when remembered)

Confabulation

Strong urge to understand
The G-LOC syndrome, however, suggests that loss of consciousness may be considered to be an evolutionarily developed protective mechanism that is evoked in a stepwise sequence in the face of excessive gravitational stress, well before any pathologic alterations of the nervous system occurs. Specific states of consciousness, subconsciousness, and unconsciousness are induced during loss and recovery of consciousness. One additional state of consciousness, a state that corresponds to a critically low range of blood flow, is where death occurs. The magnitude and duration of the gravity induced reduction of activity in the cephalic nervous system determines just how near to the state of death the individual comes.