shapeshifters

[smcder]

I think everyone should have some sort of comparative religion studies. Reading or studying the Bible as just pure literature can be rewarding. Certainly, if you have any religious leanings at all, you should make an effort to explore the origins and histories of various religious schools of thought from an objective viewpoint. Religious art, prose, and poetry can be appreciated for what they are, great efforts of human passion and devotion of historical significance, sans the supernaturalism. We should certainly celebrate truth, beauty, perseverance in the face of adversity, and gratitude, amongst other virtues. Preserving those ideals through an institutionalized focus seems pretty effective. Taking the mumbo jumbo seriously that is draped around those concepts by religions, theists, or spiritualists can a slippery slope though.

Have a listen to the Jordan Peterson link - worth the time. Northrop Frye has a good link on the Bible as literature. Peterson goes deeper I think - he has a number of other talks available Big Ideas and YouTube on related ideas. One thing I found very interesting is that as he warms to his topic in the link above he takes on some very familiar cadences. Peterson is Canadian and as far as I can tell "secular" (whatever the hell that means these days) but, with a few "ehs" and the accent, he begins to sound more and more like a Southern Baptist minister in terms of cadence and intonation. My wife heard it too and I'm planning to email him to see if anyone has pointed it out to him. Let me know if you listen and hear anything interesting.

Jordan Peterson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[boomerang]

Try Godbody by Theodore Sturgeon

IMO, one of Sturgeon's best. It's a frank and profound exploration of the relationship between human sexuality and religion.

 

[flipper]

Have a listen to the Jordan Peterson link - worth the time. Northrop Frye has a good link on the Bible as literature. Peterson goes deeper I think - he has a number of other talks available Big Ideas and YouTube on related ideas. One thing I found very interesting is that as he warms to his topic in the link above he takes on some very familiar cadences. Peterson is Canadian and as far as I can tell "secular" (whatever the hell that means these days) but, with a few "ehs" and the accent, he begins to sound more and more like a Southern Baptist minister in terms of cadence and intonation. My wife heard it too and I'm planning to email him to see if anyone has pointed it out to him. Let me know if you listen and hear anything interesting.

Jordan Peterson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I will do as you suggest.
Thanks

 

[smcder]

I came across a passage on siddhis - by Aldous Huxley in The Perennial Philosophy this morning. He says that these "psychic" (his quotes) powers develop as a result of physical austerities, mortification and pain, self inflicted. However, tradition (Buddhist, Hindu, Abrahamic says they are a hindrance to true knowledge. I'll post if I can find the passage online.

 

[smcder]

Full text of "The Perennial Philospy"

Mortification is not, as many people seem to imagine, a
matter, primarily, of severe physical austerities. It is possible
that, for certain persons in certain circumstances, the practice of
severe physical austerities may prove helpful in advance towards
man's final end. In most cases, however, it would seem that
what is gained by such austerities is not liberation, but some-
thing quite different the achievement of 'psychic' powers.
The ability to get petitionary prayer answered, die power to
heal and work other miracles, the knack of looking into the
future or into other people's minds these, it would seem, are
often related in some kind of causal connection with fasting,
watching and the self-infliction of pain. Most of the great
theocentric saints and spiritual teachers have admitted the exist-
ence of supernormal powers, only, however, to deplore them.
To think that such Siddhis, as the Indians call them, have any-
thing to do with liberation is, they say, a dangerous illusion.
These things are either irrelevant to the main issue of life, or,
if too much prized and attended to, an obstacle in die way of
spiritual advance. Nor are these the only objections to physical
austerities. Carried to extremes, they may be dangerous to
health and without health the steady persistence of effort re-
quired by the spiritual life is very difficult of achievement. And
being difficult, painful and generally conspicuous, physical aus-
terities are a standing temptation to

 

[smcder]

from the same source:

Augustine Baker

To sum up, that mortification is the best which results in the elimination of self-will, self-interest, self-centred thinking, wishing and imagining. Extreme physical austerities are not likely to achieve this kind of mortification. But the acceptance of what happens to us (apart, of course, from our own sins) in the course of daily living is likely to produce this result. If specific exercises in self-denial are undertaken, they should

MORTIFICATION, NON-ATTACHMENT u 9

be inconspicuous, non-competitive and uninjurious to health.

Thus, in the matter of diet, most people will find it sufficiently mortifying to refrain from eating all the things which the
experts in nutrition condemn as unwholesome. And where social relations are concerned, self-denial should take the form, not of showy acts of would-be humility, but of control of the tongue and the moods in refraining from saying anything charitable or merely frivolous (which means, in practice, refraining from about fifty per cent, of ordinary conversation)*, and in behaving calmly and with quiet cheerfulness when external circumstances or the state of our bodies predisposes us to anxiety, gloom or an excessive elation.

When a man practises charity in order to be reborn in heaven, or for fame, or reward, or from fear, such charity can obtain no pure
effect.


*I really would have thought it was more than fifty percent, maybe as much as 75!

 

[trainedobserver]

Yes, the pursuit of the illusionary powers, worlds, and experiences is a brightly lite side-street down which many take a wrong turn along their journey.

 

[smcder]

Yes, the pursuit of the illusionary powers, worlds, and experiences is a brightly lite side-street down which many take a wrong turn along their journey.

yes . . . yes . . . in fact, I believe I've seen you there a couple of times, my friend!

 

[trainedobserver]

Have a listen to the Jordan Peterson link - worth the time. Northrop Frye has a good link on the Bible as literature. Peterson goes deeper I think - he has a number of other talks available Big Ideas and YouTube on related ideas. One thing I found very interesting is that as he warms to his topic in the link above he takes on some very familiar cadences. Peterson is Canadian and as far as I can tell "secular" (whatever the hell that means these days) but, with a few "ehs" and the accent, he begins to sound more and more like a Southern Baptist minister in terms of cadence and intonation. My wife heard it too and I'm planning to email him to see if anyone has pointed it out to him. Let me know if you listen and hear anything interesting.

Jordan Peterson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Very good stuff. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks for posting. I get what you mean by the cadence and intonation.

 

[trainedobserver]

yes . . . yes . . . in fact, I believe I've seen you there a couple of times, my friend!

I still have some of my super powers, I just refuse to use them.

 

[smcder]

I still have some of my super powers, I just refuse to use them.

Good for you! ;-) I still use mine, but discretely. Meaning both with discretion and in a non continuous fashion.

 

[manxman]

from the same source:

Augustine Baker


MORTIFICATION, NON-ATTACHMENT u 9

be inconspicuous, non-competitive and uninjurious to health.

but of control of the tongue and the moods in refraining from saying anything charitable or merely frivolous (which means, in practice, refraining from about fifty per cent, of ordinary conversation)*, and in behaving calmly and with quiet cheerfulness when external circumstances or the state of our bodies predisposes us to anxiety, gloom or an excessive elation.

Bollocks.

 

[smcder]

Bollocks.

For example.

 

[manxman]

i'll cue em up, you knock em over.

the rest of it's a bit deep for me, good read, but a bit deep.


ps
if we all stuck to just communicating our point, the world would be a lonely place, there would be no real relationships.
we are not designed to be happy 24/7, in truth we are moody, broody, animals, conflict is a release mechanism, towards being happy..

 

[smcder]

i'll cue em up, you knock em over.

the rest of it's a bit deep for me, good read, but a bit deep.


ps
if we all stuck to just communicating our point, the world would be a lonely place, there would be no real relationships.
we are not designed to be happy 24/7, in truth we are moody, broody, animals, conflict is a release mechanism, towards being happy..

Right, this is for the mystic - those seeking unitive knowledge of God (it's pretty clear where everyone stands on that - no need for endless debate) but if that's your thing then the author is saying mindful speech and a steady mood are probably mortification enough - further austerities, especially extreme mortification of the flesh, may lead to psychic powers (again we know everyone's beliefs on that) but tends to take one away from God.

If anyone here has actually practiced such extreme mortification in pursuit of siddhis - a vision quest for example - I'd like to hear about the results.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Well odd this thread rings a bell regarding a true story of child in a street in 1950s who mother forgot to close the gate which the child dropped a ball that bounced over the gate, the child went out of the gate. Prior to this his mother was having cup of tea where's her friend told her not to worry her son has died and the child is with God. ( Welsh White Witch) Which she saw a slight image out the corner of her eye of him with her child .? Also how many servicemen and women convert to religion during combat it's been said through history.