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Something amazing

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David Biedny

Paranormal Adept
Folks,

Strap yourselves in.

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This is one of the most profound things I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot.

Enjoy.

dB
 
We'd be in trouble if they had opposable thumbs. I've seen a video of one that was angry at his master stomp him, pick him up and stuff him into wicker basket, and then put a lid on it. Not as impressive as painting a flower, but it made me realize that there's a lot intelligence in that big 'ol brain.
 
Here's something equally amazing...this woman could have been our President!

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after our previous presidents, a gnat turd could be president. As Bill Hicks used to say, "When I was growing up, they said anyone could be president..... I didn't know they meant it literally... ANYONE can be the president."


The Palin vid a fake? Sorry, but if it's real, I could buy it, if it's not, I could buy it.
 
Even trained to do it, that's amazing. I'm gobsmacked (this should get a cheer from everyone who's wanted to smack me in the gob :)).

I can't think of a good reason not to think of an animal that can do that as somebody.

PS. That's also a pretty nifty trunk demonstration...I've thought until now that aliens would need rigid arms (at least a little) like ours, but I have to say after this I think tentacles could work on land after all.
(for some light relief, see here for the appropriate response in all cases like this one)

Wow. That's the coolest thing I've seen in ages.
 
So is the Elephant trained stroke for stroke, or how does it work? Id look it up but Im capped at the moment (lousy Aus Internet), took me over half an hour to load that video.
 
Going from the largest to the smallest -

The elephant may have been trained to do this - but, I agree that it is profound.

But who trained this to do this? - and I don't believe it has brains?

http://www.myvideo.co.za/video/virus-attacking-bacteria

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A couple of points:

- I seriously doubt that the elephant could be "trained" to paint with that level of complete accuracy and determination - it would be tough to train a lot of humans to do something like that.

- The creature is not looking at an image and replicating it - it's creating this from it's mind, and the flourish of the last brush stroke is something else. No, this animal appears to be expressing itself. It's mixing colors, applying them with total, absolute precision, deliberately, thoughtfully. Seriously, I teared up when I saw this for the first time, and in subsequent viewings. The power of this video is astounding, at least for me, for some of you as well.

- Comparing this creative, self-reflective action with a meh-rendered CG of a natural organism doing what it does on a regular basis is just not useful, IMO. This elephant is not just any other animal - it is an artist, expressing itself in an abstract way that we've always assumed is the exclusive domain of humans on this planet. This is a clear, concise and determined effort at communication between species, and it leaves me humbled, floored, dumbfounded and oddly optimistic.

dB
 
David Biedny said:
A couple of points:

- I seriously doubt that the elephant could be "trained" to paint with that level of complete accuracy and determination - it would be tough to train a lot of humans to do something like that.

- The creature is not looking at an image and replicating it - it's creating this from it's mind, and the flourish of the last brush stroke is something else. No, this animal appears to be expressing itself. It's mixing colors, applying them with total, absolute precision, deliberately, thoughtfully. Seriously, I teared up when I saw this for the first time, and in subsequent viewings. The power of this video is astounding, at least for me, for some of you as well.

- Comparing this creative, self-reflective action with a meh-rendered CG of a natural organism doing what it does on a regular basis is just not useful, IMO. This elephant is not just any other animal - it is an artist, expressing itself in an abstract way that we've always assumed is the exclusive domain of humans on this planet. This is a clear, concise and determined effort at communication between species, and it leaves me humbled, floored, dumbfounded and oddly optimistic.

dB
Click to expand...

I am kinda speechless at the moment. I've seen video of elephants mourning their dead weeks after a death (One was by a train). One had a group of elephants shunning another because some scientists put a camera on its head to get an view elephants of things. As soon as the camera was removed they accepted him again.

To me this is self awareness. Its a thing of beauty, and I'm gonna make sure many people see this.
 
Oh yeah, I LOVE that video! When I'd first seen that one a few months ago, I watched it about five times in a row, it was INCREDIBLE, huh?

Thanks David for sharing this! :)
 
This elephant-as-artist video is remarkable and seems to illustrate that elephants can indeed use their brains (and trunks) in more ways than we usually give them credit. Why do we think we are the only conscious beings on the planet that can think and create?

Does anyone remember the news segment a few years back that reported, "Elephants can recognize themselves in a mirror, joining only humans, apes and dolphins as animals that possess this kind of self-awareness." The researchers at the Bronx Zoo determined that the elephants were perceiving themselves (and not just registering the image as another elephant) in the giant mirrors because the subjects used the mirrors to check out paint on their foreheads that otherwise they would not be able to see, and there were other experiments as well.

I looked up a link if you want to know more about this: http://www.livescience.com/animals/061030_elephant_mirror.html

Thanks, David, for bringing this to our minds on this rather gloomy day (here on the East Coast, anyway).
 
Very cool. I had no idea that elephants can make art.

I wonder what other animals could if they had arms/hands/trunks?

Thanks for that vid!
 
this reminds me if an incident with a chimp a few years ago.

it was using one of those pictogram boards to talk to one of his trainers greg, who was there in the company of other trainers.
greg started to reprogram the board so it wouldnt convey the expected meanings and this irritated the chimp, when greg restored the original template, the chimp signed "Greg you green shit"

now at first this sounds comedic, but the researchers were amazed, green was known as a colour this chimp hated, he had gone to extra effort to convey the degree of dislike for what greg had done.

we do indeed share this place with "people" other than us.

our inability to recognise this is a bit like the mindset that accepted slavery as normal. and hopefully it will be as transient in time


we'd be better off spending the money we do on SETI restoring the habitat of our younger "family" members .....
 
I'd like to know a little of the back story to this elephant and its "artistic" ability. Does anyone know how this might have happened?? I put "artistic" in quotes because, strangely, I'm not convinced of an inner elephant making art. I suppose this is due to my own programming and the ability and creativeness of animal trainers. So I look at it with a bias. Not saying the creature couldn't be consciously thinking, but it is such an odd and unverified (other than this video) phenomena.

While we don't really know why consciousness arises or really what it is, it isn't to say that it couldn't arise in other animals. But for now I guess I have to be a bit stubbornly skeptical of the free will of the elephant and its creation. Until I get some knowledge of the storyline of this episode, I can't say I think the elephant is expressing itself. On the other hand, perhaps it is. And that would be one of the most wonderful things I could imagine. Either way it is impressive, but there is a big leap from a trained animal to an animal creating art.
 
After a little searching I've found a few things. I'm just linking them to add anything to the discussion of this thread. One thing that may be thought about and is mentioned in the 1st article is the generation of a market for elephant art. If there is demand, then a product needs to be put out. But who looks out for the care, handling, and ethical treatment of these animals as they may be pushed to paint for someone elses motives??

1. Elephant Nature Foundation a reaction from this group as it pertains to the elephant video.

2. National Geographic Video This video might turn your stomach sour, especially if you view the Training Crush segment. It made me sick and you have to wonder what these elephants might have to go through to become trained (not just for art, but for numerous purposes)

3. Buy Elephant Art now. (Maybe you shouldn't, I just don't know right now)

I don't know what to think just yet, but my feeling is once again we push animals to their breaking points for our benefit. (And marketed as something to the animals benefit) I don't know for sure. Anyway hope you find these relevant.

And while I'd like to think that there is some animal connection to intelligence and consciousness, something seems, ... not quite right.
 
I remember reading about Desmond Morris doing some experiments with giving chimps paint and brushes. Some of them became so immersed in the activity that they lost interest in normal eating and mating patterns. But when they began to reward the chimps for the paintings, they began to put forth only the minimal effort necessary to receive a reward, and eventually lost interest.

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