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Something amazing

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mike said:
we do indeed share this place with "people" other than us.

our inability to recognise this is a bit like the mindset that accepted slavery as normal. and hopefully it will be as transient in time
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Slavery was necessary to get America off the back burner.

The American/British/Dutch etc Pioneers would trade with African Chiefs who would stock rival african tribes - push them on a boat and spend 4 weeks if they were lucky on the atlantic shitting and pissing on each other perhaps shackled to a fellow corpse.
After reaching the "land of the free" they would then be drilled into there tobacco or sugar plantation on the Islands or the Chesapeak or Virginian colonies and driven into the ground.

Then would come forth the "Evangelist" - the radicals/moderates - The new era of hope, The god fearing maniac with there fiery sermons which would offer the slave the last hope of freedom - "Westernised Indoctrinated Cultural Expression" - Allehlujhua - "The Gospel of Slavery".

Is this is what the Elephant is doing?

STAND STILL AND SEE YOSHUA!!

IMO - Let them return to there tribal origins and see the real innovation and intelligence of these creatures and lets not corrupt them.
Amen.
 
Is this is what the Elephant is doing?
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No, Its painting a picture. and it seems to be enjoying itself doing so.

So if a kids parents want their child to take piano or dance lessons to help develop various skills, is that slavery? I mean these things don't come natural and are learned experiences. These elephants learn to paint. Some may like to paint, some may not. In fact some may hate it, much like kids having to sit and learn chopsticks instead of watching Scooby-Doo after school. Their are also many children who like to dance and play piano. It fills them with a feeling of self accomplishment. I liked to play guitar, paint and wrtite. I got to stretch my mind and express myself as an individual.

These animals in that part of the world are pretty respected. Its not like a circus atmosphere were the animals are slaves. I can just imagine some evil dude with a whip and cattle prod screaming "Paint damn you Paint" while twisting his snidley whiplash mustache.

Did you ever think for a minute that the elephant is enjoying itself? Maybe all of the positive feedback from the people watching while it paints makes it happy? These creatures have a full range of emotions. maybe she gets filled with pride when she paints a good picture.

Think of the things that make you happy. I'm actually listening to my dog go nuts on a squeaky toy right now behind me. She's pretty happy. It wouldn't make her happy if I took it away. In fact she would get depressed and pout in the corner. Taking the elephants paint brush away would be like taking away my puppies chew toy and probably make it unhappy. In fact I'd bet you'd see a change for the worse in the elephant if you took away its creative outlet once its been exposed to it.
 
Mothra said:
So if a kids parents want their child to take piano or dance lessons to help develop various skills, is that slavery? I mean these things don't come natural and are learned experiences.
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I don't know about that. Music and dance, I think, do come naturally to people everywhere, as they are a part of every civilization on the planet, as far as I'm aware. Children will dance and sing without any instruction at all. True, it generally takes instruction and practice to get really good at it, but the basic desire is there naturally.

Even in other species, there is evidence of a natural desire to sing and dance. Mating dances are common in many species, and could not the howling of wolves, and other similar activities, be considered "singing"?

Except for that one point, though, I totally agree with the rest of your post.
 
I don't know about that. Music and dance, I think, do come naturally to people everywhere
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On a primal level I think I would agree with you. I'm speaking about Tap dancing, ballet and school band type stuff. Stuff we learn. No one is born with the knowledge to Tap Dance or Play the Piano ( that we know of). Some learn it quicker than others, some have no interest and can't, won't learn it at all.
 
Mothra said:
On a primal level I think I would agree with you. I'm speaking about Tap dancing, ballet and school band type stuff. Stuff we learn. No one is born with the knowledge to Tap Dance or Play the Piano ( that we know of). Some learn it quicker than others, some have no interest and can't, won't learn it at all.
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I see what you're saying, and pretty much agree, although there are always those "prodigies" who throw off the whole curve.
 
i watched a great Doco the other day Sigourney Weaver revisting "gorillas in the mist" 20 years after the movie.

the genetic data is irrefutable, these creatures are related to us, and they should no more have to struggle for survival, than a younger brother or sister in your own family would.

Chimps are people too

are we seeing the start of the long journey to sentience in these animals the elephant the dolphin ?.
we know primates taught amslan, teach it to their offspring. maybe sentience starts with the simple act of "enculturement" .

various old texts say man has "dominion" over our fellow creatures, but im certain that if i could give you "dominion" over Time itself, you'd soon recognise that giving each species its own space to develop is vital in the "big picture"
 
We've clapped ourselves on the backs for being the only self-aware animals in this forest. The elephant may have just given us evidence that we have been incorrect.

I think that's why the video is so touching. In a small way, we're less alone. In a very large way, we are intimately connected.

It may only be a suggestion, the elephant's talent for portraying his brother, but it's enough to bend the human mind. That in itself is priceless.
 
skunkape said:
Here's something equally amazing...this woman could have been our President!

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<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nJd_vm9VhpU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>
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I love how Government keeps telling us they are going to give us less Government. That's some ironic, funny stuff. Best of all is how some wackos believe them. :eek:
 
Aaron LeClair said:
Ugh, that's sad and my stomache is burning now. I can watch most crap happen to humans but many other animals suffering is my greatest weakness. The dog is dead it seems. By saved, do you really mean saved? The dog live?
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I'm crying like a big ass baby right now. Same reaction I had when watching that scene in I Am Legend. Human trauma has no affect on me. I've been involved in it first hand.

I'd take a bullet for my dogs. Is that crazy?
 
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