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Something From Nothing - a conversation w/ Richard Dawkins & Lawrence Krauss
- Thread starter stonehart
- Start date
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stonehart
Paranormal Adept
Used to great effect no one can argue with that.
The concept of Satan is in interesting inclusion with regards to Christianity as opposed to Judaic belief/tradition that it apparently emerged from.
It is only with Christianity that we get the concept of torture of the dead, for with the old Testament once you are dead god is done with you.
So what we have here is Old Testament God a psychopath that demands attention but is done with you when you are dead, and the New Testament Jesus who represents gods love but if you do not accept that you will be tortured after death.
This is not a dig at those who believe in this but is just a comment on the change.
Too true, and the logical conclusion is the bible 2.0 is just a new book.
Lets face it the sociopathic rules from the old testament, were so restrictive it must have been hard to get new converts. if any one of your grandparents going back 10 generations was a bastard.... you cant join.
So we have a new narrative, one with both the carrot and a stick, a get into heaven free card in jesus, and a burn in eternal torment option with el diablo.
Cleary contrived as a tool for societal control and manipulation
Neat little scam too, tithe 10 percent of your labours to the priesthood in return for an eternity of luxury if you do, and an eternitys torment if you dont
And during the inquistion , if the fire and brimstone sermons didnt convince you to give to the church, there was always the torture dungeons......
The hideous inhuman acts practised there could be reconciled with the rationale that its better to torture someone to death, and save their eternal soul.
Its a good trade.
If course since heaven and hell dont exist except in the imaginations of the gullible.
There is no trade, just torture
And the devil character gave justification to deem some people to be in league with him.
This is an example of the religious "logic"
If they floated, they were hauled out and burned alive at the stake, if they drowned.... lucky them
Either way being accused of being in leauge with this fictional character was a death sentance...........
But again as a tool for societal domination it works well, subscribe to our doctrine, or be tortured and burned alive.
The witch pricker is a classic example, the myth being a "devils mark" (mole/scar/birthmark) didnt bleed
So the blade retracts into the handle giving the illusion its peirced the flesh, which it doesnt so , no blood.........
The poor victim is then tortured until death is preferable to another day on the rack, and they confess, and then its off to the town square for a public burning, in this manner "object lessons" were never in short supply
The meme...... obey the church or wind up on the pyre
Lets face it the sociopathic rules from the old testament, were so restrictive it must have been hard to get new converts. if any one of your grandparents going back 10 generations was a bastard.... you cant join.
So we have a new narrative, one with both the carrot and a stick, a get into heaven free card in jesus, and a burn in eternal torment option with el diablo.
Cleary contrived as a tool for societal control and manipulation
Neat little scam too, tithe 10 percent of your labours to the priesthood in return for an eternity of luxury if you do, and an eternitys torment if you dont
And during the inquistion , if the fire and brimstone sermons didnt convince you to give to the church, there was always the torture dungeons......
The hideous inhuman acts practised there could be reconciled with the rationale that its better to torture someone to death, and save their eternal soul.
Its a good trade.
If course since heaven and hell dont exist except in the imaginations of the gullible.
There is no trade, just torture
And the devil character gave justification to deem some people to be in league with him.
This is an example of the religious "logic"
If they floated, they were hauled out and burned alive at the stake, if they drowned.... lucky them
Either way being accused of being in leauge with this fictional character was a death sentance...........
But again as a tool for societal domination it works well, subscribe to our doctrine, or be tortured and burned alive.
The witch pricker is a classic example, the myth being a "devils mark" (mole/scar/birthmark) didnt bleed
So the blade retracts into the handle giving the illusion its peirced the flesh, which it doesnt so , no blood.........
The poor victim is then tortured until death is preferable to another day on the rack, and they confess, and then its off to the town square for a public burning, in this manner "object lessons" were never in short supply
The meme...... obey the church or wind up on the pyre
stonehart
Paranormal Adept
With that in mind you can understand why men like Galileo were taking a huge risk in going against the defined doctrine of the day, just look at Giordano Bruno's fate due to his cosmological theories for an example:
The church would have and did absolutely hate this idea due to its implications for the church's set dogma. As such he was burnt at the stake for it.
The church would have and did absolutely hate this idea due to its implications for the church's set dogma. As such he was burnt at the stake for it.
stonehart
Paranormal Adept
In addition to my above post.
Science and scientific thinking is an irresistible force for change that it would appear not even religious dogma can hold back forever "God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance." That holds a profound truth when one thinks about it.
I have said this so many times here that I feel like a broken record but "there is a vast difference between being spiritual and being religious"
So Tyder I think this may relate to where you stand right now if I may be so bold to say it, I feel that maybe you have gone beyond being a religious person to being a spiritual one and that gets a huge thumbs up from me.
I am not religious I think that is obvious but I do see myself as a spiritual person in regards to how I feel about the world around me. I do not mean this in a New Age way and I have no need of a god, but the simple majesty of nature itself leaves me aw struck when you consider how lucky we are to have existed at all.
Maybe as Carl Sagan put it we are the universe itself pondering its own existence.
But consider this 90% plus of all life that has ever existed on this planet has gone extinct and so will we in our time.. no the world was not made for us, but I can see how a primitive mind could think there must be a creator to it all but in the end that dose not mean there is or ever was one.
For as I said we will go extinct in time either by climatic change, meteor strike, or simply the slow hand of evolution, our species as you see it now will not be here in time.
Maybe there will be a form of human that is related to us but it will not be us.
But, and I mean this vehemently, we need to grow up as a species and start looking after the world we live on and the people around us or our decedents will have no world left to live on.
"Imagine that you lived on an island and all that you needed to survive was on that island... would you pollute it and strip mine it? wage war and destroy it? ... no that would be insane right?.... well you do live on an island so we best look after it."
Science and scientific thinking is an irresistible force for change that it would appear not even religious dogma can hold back forever "God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance." That holds a profound truth when one thinks about it.
I have said this so many times here that I feel like a broken record but "there is a vast difference between being spiritual and being religious"
So Tyder I think this may relate to where you stand right now if I may be so bold to say it, I feel that maybe you have gone beyond being a religious person to being a spiritual one and that gets a huge thumbs up from me.
I am not religious I think that is obvious but I do see myself as a spiritual person in regards to how I feel about the world around me. I do not mean this in a New Age way and I have no need of a god, but the simple majesty of nature itself leaves me aw struck when you consider how lucky we are to have existed at all.
Maybe as Carl Sagan put it we are the universe itself pondering its own existence.
But consider this 90% plus of all life that has ever existed on this planet has gone extinct and so will we in our time.. no the world was not made for us, but I can see how a primitive mind could think there must be a creator to it all but in the end that dose not mean there is or ever was one.
For as I said we will go extinct in time either by climatic change, meteor strike, or simply the slow hand of evolution, our species as you see it now will not be here in time.
Maybe there will be a form of human that is related to us but it will not be us.
But, and I mean this vehemently, we need to grow up as a species and start looking after the world we live on and the people around us or our decedents will have no world left to live on.
"Imagine that you lived on an island and all that you needed to survive was on that island... would you pollute it and strip mine it? wage war and destroy it? ... no that would be insane right?.... well you do live on an island so we best look after it."