Steven Greer

[Rick Deckard]

The woolsey affair is small potatoes compared to some of the other stuff he's done, but it is indicative of what he's really like.

Has the letter been authenticated? Have you got any links or pointers to the 'big' potatoes?

...and the frauds that were also included in the DP.

Which frauds are they, then?

You're only as good as your weakest link in the evidentiary chain.

I don't buy that - if you're putting together a court case to prove *anything*, you might leave the 'weakest' links out but you wouldn't just say "oh that witness is questionable, therefore all of them must be".

BTW, this argument about 'proving the UFO case in a court' is bogus - we all know that the guilty sometimes go free and the innocent are sometimes sentenced. Hardly 100% reliable.

Paul, what are your thoughts on the 500-page briefing document?

 

[CapnG]

Personally, I've had it with Greer. I've been following the increasingly inert Disclosure Project for several years and am digusted to see it's as impotent as I orginally thought it would be.

What's worse however is Greer's increasingly repetitive commentary. Same script in every interview he's done for the past three years. If the man has proof let's see it. I'm tired of this crap. Make it happen, or be silent.

 

[Atrayo]

Hi CapnG,

I've been following the increasingly inert Disclosure Project for several years and am digusted to see it's as impotent as I orginally thought it would be.

What's worse however is Greer's increasingly repetitive commentary. Same script in every interview he's done for the past three years. If the man has proof let's see it. I'm tired of this crap. Make it happen, or be silent.

I suspect this is why in some respects that Dr. Steven Greer was jittery when Gene & David mentioned the cost of those field trips he sponsors. Much like David & Gene (reversed it just to be fair ) have stated such an activist cause isn't a road track for monetary wealth. Dr Greer about a year or so ago raffled off a mercedes benz of his as a fund raising tool. He's stated as a physician he could be making $100,000 plus a year here in the US.

So he's under the gun per say of keeping his "Disclosure Project" afloat. And probably gets rattled when someone broaches such a topic. Hopefully it doesn't get to the point where Dr. Greer has to go into merchandising selling T-Shirts and Key Chains.

I also concur that he covers nearly the identical script in his various radio show interviews. Although i listen to many of them hoping to hear an additional fact nugget that may pop out from time to time. One needs to keep in mind that many be listening to Dr. Steven Greer for the first time. Not taking into account the semi-hardcore who may be hearing from him on his radio interview spots repeatedly.

But I wonder for someone who has a security task force in place so as to not have Men in Black spook him, his family, his collegues, etc... How come he can't raise significant capital monies so as to mind the store indefinitely.

 

[Guy.W]

Can someone clarify for me the people in the project the others in the UFO field find to be full of crap? I know Steven has his detractors, but what about the other people that were at the press conference in 2001? Were the legit? or are some of these people full of it.

 

[Rick Deckard]

Can someone clarify for me the people in the project the others in the UFO field find to be full of crap? I know Steven has his detractors, but what about the other people that were at the press conference in 2001? Were the legit? or are some of these people full of it.

I asked the same in my previous post - no further comments have been made.

Although I could hardly describe myself myself as a "cheer-leader" for Greer, I have noticed that certain individuals appear to be attempting to undermine his character rather than comment on the core evidence of the Disclosure Project. Have any of these people actually read the 500-page briefing document?

I have.

Could one of the "nay-sayers" please comment on that document rather than make vague claims about "flakey" witnesses and a letter about a meeting that may or may not be authentic?

So far, the paracast interviews and forums have helped me make my mind up about the Serpo Project and the One-Armed-Swiss-Farmer - if the Disclosure Project is also another profit-making scheme then please show me the evidence and I can add that to my UFO 'ignore' filters...

 

[CapnG]

My main problem with the Disclosure Project is, was and continues to be the following:

If there is indeed a huge, "black government" exercising control over the ebb and flow of ET information and technology (and I believe there probably is but that's just my opinion) then how can the Disclosure Project's core mission POSSIBLY succeed? Taking the Black Gov as writ, we're talking about the people who print the money, they make the rules and they do whatever they please whenever they like. To think they can be brought to task through legal channels is ludicrous. How can laws be applied to people who operate outside the law? I've never once gotten a decent answer to that question (and I did email the DP about it when I first found out about them three years ago).

As for the witnesses, I have no comment. My case is not with them, it's with Greer. He's the head-honcho, it's his responsibility to put forth new information. And I don't buy the "Well maybe it's the first time they've heard him speak" line. That's crap. Doubly so considering almost every one of his interviews is catalogued on the DP website.

 

[David Biedny]

Deckard,

I've watched a good amount of the Disclosure Project materials available online via Google video, and I'm very impressed by the credibility and testimony of the witnesses, with perhaps a couple of exceptions. I'm really baffled by the fact that their testimonies have not elicited any real response from the UFO community, much less the mainstream media. The CSETI stuff is really a distraction, and appears to have really leached credibility away from the Disclosure Project, a very sad thing, indeed.

 

[Rick Deckard]

My main problem with the Disclosure Project is, was and continues to be the following:

If there is indeed a huge, "black government" exercising control over the ebb and flow of ET information and technology (and I believe there probably is but that's just my opinion) then how can the Disclosure Project's core mission POSSIBLY succeed? Taking the Black Gov as writ, we're talking about the people who print the money, they make the rules and they do whatever they please whenever they like. To think they can be brought to task through legal channels is ludicrous. How can laws be applied to people who operate outside the law? I've never once gotten a decent answer to that question (and I did email the DP about it when I first found out about them three years ago).

I also feel that way - I'm now of the opinion that the battle was lost before it started. The mechanisms are already in place to stop the disclosure from ever happening. I'm also beginning to wonder if the whole project was allowed to happen in order to put all the whistle-blowers 'in one basket'.

Also, I remember reading somewhere that an unsuccessful attempt was made in the 1970's to get witnesses to testify before congress - I'll see if I can find the relevant information...

 

[Rick Deckard]

I'm really baffled by the fact that their testimonies have not elicited any real response from the UFO community, much less the mainstream media.

Me too - well more frustrated than baffled. This just re-enforces my suspicion that many so-called serious UFO researchers are in this for themselves - they are not interested in full disclosure because their mortgage relies on their next 'best-seller' and if the ET reality becomes 'common knowledge' their books will drop off the 'sensational stories' radar and attract far fewer sales.

 

[Guy.W]

Let me be clear when I say that full disclosure will never happen.

back in the mid-nineties I remember seeing people interviewed regarding the meteorite that purportedly had Martian microbe fossils inside of it. Most of these were Christians and they just stared wide eyed and said it couldn't be true because GOD created life here on earth and nowhere else. I just sat there and shook my head in disbelief

Can you imagine what would happen if they made a Full disclosure? riots in the streets, dogs and cats living together, total anarchy folks.

It would be like the villagers hunting down Frankenstein with torches and pitchforks, because the demons had arrived.

 

[Paul Kimball]

Apparently this didn't sink in last time, so let me try again - there are good witnesses in the DP, and lousy ones. Simply watching the video or reading the book doesn't mean you're able to distinguish between the two.

Here's one of the good ones, whom I've had the pleasure to meet and interview myself - Bob Salas.

Here's one who has been shown by UFO researchers, after extensive research, to be full of it - Cliff Stone.

The problem comes when you mix the two, as Greer did (for what reasons, one can only speculate). How many folks here have ever argued cases before a court? I have, and I can tell you that a case is only as strong as the weakest witnesses or evidence that you present. Science works the same way. And that's what this is all about - the presentation of evidence.

Maybe Greer was just hopelessly naive (I don't think so, but I recognise opinions can differ here), and took everything at face value. The problem with that is that you haven't vetted the witnesses, and removed the bad ones who taint the good testimony, as well as the ones who might be questionable.

But that's ufology - a lot of people don't actually look at the evidence, do the research, and make the tough choices to reject those things and people which / who can't be verified (and the ones who do are often attacked by the True Believers). The result is a long list of frauds and liars who taint the overall case in the eyes of the public, and science, and government, and anyone else outside the narrow little world of ufology who might be in a position to make a positive contribution.

Or, as Kevin Randle put it back in 2001:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/may/m14-025.shtml

Or, as Stan Friedman put it back in 2001:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/may/m12-020.shtml

Or Dick Hall:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/may/m03-005.shtml

Or Project 1947's Jan Aldrich:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/may/m04-010.shtml

And, just for fun, a final thought, from former CAUS founder Brad Sparks on the "good doctor":

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/mar/m30-021.shtml

To quote Brad, who has interviewed more senior military and intel people over the past 30 years than anyone, Greer is:

"The ultimate spoiler and stinker who has ensured that for generations to come there will _never_ be a Congressional investigation or hearing on the Air Force and UFOs or the AF and Roswell, because all the legitimate witnesses are contaminated with others who are liars and ringers and because all efforts at securing Congressional hearings on UFOs or Roswell are dominated and/or controlled by this spoiler."

It's not as if Congress is unwilling to look at the prospect of ETI, either. See:

The Other Side of Truth: Congress & Intelligent Life in the Universe

As I wrote:

"It is clear that the committee is open to the possibility of alien life 'out there'. Given that, how hard would it really be to get Congress to discuss UFOs if it were people like Dr. Peter Sturrock approaching them, as opposed to 'Disclosure Project' true-believers?

How hard? Not very, I think, especially if presented properly, by the right people.

Which is why Dr. Steven Greer et al have been such a disaster."

Paul

 

[Rick Deckard]

Wow, way to go - if one's lying then they're all lying. Brilliant logic. Plays right into the clutches of the disinformation effort.

If the Disclosure Project fails then I won't be blaming Greer, I'll be blaming all the other so-called UFO experts who seem only too willing to jump on the pseudo-skeptics band-wagon rather than help the cause. Sounds more like professional envy than constructive criticism.

So, it's time to pack up and go home - the conspirators have won.

There's nothing more to be done - except write another book on the 'big secret'...

I've come to realize that I'm wasting my time with this UFO B.S. - I see no reason why there should not be intelligent alien life out there. I see no reason why they would not visit this planet. I don't need someone to stand up in court and confirm what already makes logical sense to me.

This whole UFO circus is just one big side-show. A waste of time. Full of egos and conmen.

Lets flip the question on it's head - why wouldn't ETI's come here? Prove to me ETI's don't exist. Prove to me that they aren't visiting the Earth. Explain the logic to me says we are the only intelligent life in the universe capable of space travel. Explain to me why, if ETI's do exist, they wouldn't come here.

I think the probability the UFO's are ETI's visiting Earth far outweighs the probability that we are the only intelligent species in the universe capable of space travel.

It would be nice if that was 'officially' recognised as the 'consensual' reality, but I don't see that happening any time soon and it doesn't make one bit of difference to me any more.

I'm not a 'UFO worshiper' like the followers of the One-Armed-Swiss-Farmer, but if ETI's did land on the Whitehouse lawn then I won't be surprised by that and neither will anyone else.

 

[TerraX]

Rick, in ufology there are a great number of people who can be dubbed 'ufological lawyers'. I say that because many display behavior of bending the truth how it fits them and creating doubt where it suits them. Mr. Kimball excells in that. Hmm, Kimballism?

 

[Guy.W]

Well Paul named Clifford Stone as a bad guy. isn't he the crash retrieval person? Who says he's lying? What researcher or group of people outed this guy?


I'm not really sold on Greer being a bad guy. I see he's actually accomplished a lot more than a lot of other researchers. I mean look at all the people he brought together. I mean that was a huge shot in the arm to UFOlogy. I believe that it answered a lot of questions for myself and many others.

 

[CapnG]

I wouldn't say Greer is a "bad guy" either but what he's DOING is bad. What's the point of doing a triple-axel into a jacknife if all you do when you get in the pool is doggie-paddle?

 

[Rick Deckard]

I wouldn't say Greer is a "bad guy" either but what he's DOING is bad. What's the point of doing a triple-axel into a jacknife if all you do when you get in the pool is doggie-paddle?

What I don't understand is why all the 'experts' don't join the Disclosure Project?

It seems to me that most of the 'researchers' are in the UFO 'business' to line their own pockets - why don't they form some sort of 'movement' to create a core of 'good' UFO evidence?

If Greer's Project will be brought down by a few 'flakey' witnesses whey don't the nay-sayers help tighten up the case rather than stand on the side-lines sniping?

Surely there's now more than enough evidence to prove the case - why don't they all compare notes, pool their resources and actually do something with all their 'research' material? They can weed out all of the suspect witnesses and reports. What's left would be cast iron, wouldn't it?

But they won't. Their egos won't let them.

What a shameful state the UFO 'community' is in.

The 'secret' Government doesn't need a massive disinformation project - they just have to let human greed and egotism do their work for them.

 

[Paul Kimball]

It seems to me that most of the 'researchers' are in the UFO 'business' to line their own pockets - why don't they form some sort of 'movement' to create a core of 'good' UFO evidence?

<snip>

The 'secret' Government doesn't need a massive disinformation project - they just have to let human greed and egotism do their work for them.

You just described Steven Greer to a "T".

 

[Paul Kimball]

Well Paul named Clifford Stone as a bad guy. isn't he the crash retrieval person? Who says he's lying? What researcher or group of people outed this guy?

Opinions are wonderful things - everyone should have them. However, if you're not familiar with the literature, and the research, what are they really worth?

A number of good, pro-ET researchers have debunked Cliff Stone over the years. You might want to start with Kevin Randle. Try this, and then go from there:

A Different Perspective: Exopolitics

Paul

 

[Rick Deckard]

You just described Steven Greer to a "T".

Well, it's obvious that you're already convinced of that - I haven't made my mind up yet.

 

[Paul Kimball]

Rick, in ufology there are a great number of people who can be dubbed 'ufological lawyers'. I say that because many display behavior of bending the truth how it fits them and creating doubt where it suits them. Mr. Kimball excells in that. Hmm, Kimballism?

No - we seek the truth, wherever it may lead. We don't fit it into our belief system - it comes to shape our belief system. That's how it's supposed to work.

I can only assume from your post that you prefer another method, so often favoured in ufology today, where the belief drives everything else.

Or maybe you're one of those types who, when faced with someone who disagrees with you and can back his opinions up with facts, falls back on the tired old trick of attacking them, and accusing them of distorting the truth - sometimes even going so far as to accuse them of being an "agent of the government", or some such.

If that's the case, don't worry - in ufology, you have plenty of company. None of it good, alas, but you can't have everything, can you?

Paul