• NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!

    Subscribe to The Paracast Newsletter!

Suggestion for new forum

Free episodes:

Hey guys I ended up here because I have an honest interest in the unexplained. I have my own theories as to what some of it is as i'm sure we all do.

Maybe this drifts slightly from the rant subject but I'll give you my take on it. Any website delving into anything called "paranormal" is in my guesstimation delving into the spiritual realm or at least it is a possibility especially concerning spirits ghosts hauntings possessions etc.

Religion and spirituality have comingled for eons. Don't be surprised what can of worms this can potentially open up.Some of it is not good IMO.
 
One of the long time motto's of the show has been seperating the wheat from the chaff

Many of the participants here ,myself included are of the firm opinion that religion is chaff

Just as someone who were to post billy meiers photos are real spaceships, would be challenged, so too do many of us challange what we see as the absurd claim there is a god and that jesus was his son.

Any time the claim is made to the contrary its going to be challenged, like it or not.
Because thats all ignorance and superstition need to flourish, is for the rational to turn a blind eye.

The earth is not 6 thousand years old, the planets massive and diverse range of biological lifeforms did not all come out of a wooden boat, the bible is pile of superstitious fairy tales.


/rant
 
I hear you on that Mike. That's your world please don't try to force it on the rest of us. You can challenge all you want to. I find some of your comparisons interesting. Who would have ever thought to compare the Bible to Billy Meiers?:)
 
@Starise - what's your profile pic of? is it inside a light aircraft? Is there any UFO or personal significance to yourself?

goggs
 
I hear you on that Mike. That's your world please don't try to force it on the rest of us. You can challenge all you want to. I find some of your comparisons interesting. Who would have ever thought to compare the Bible to Billy Meiers?:)

Its not much of a stretch

Talmud Jmmanuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Talmud Jmmanuel (TJ) is a purported ancient text in Aramaic that the Swiss UFO contactee Billy Meier, along with an ex-Greek Orthodox priest named Isa Rashid, claimed to have discovered south of the Old City of Jerusalem in 1963. According to Meier, Isa Rashid kept the manuscript and sent him the translation in 1974. The first edition in German came out in 1978. It is described by its promoters as the source text (often termed the Logia, or the Q document) of the Gospel of Matthew, which Meier claims demonstrates extraterrestrial origins for the Bible. The spelling Jmmanuel was allegedly commanded to Meier by extraterrestrials

As recounted in the unabridged version of Message from the Pleiades, Vol. 2, Meier was taken back in time by the extraterrestrial Asket where he met personally with Jmmanuel, alleged to be the real Jesus, and who told Meier that Meier's evolution was higher than that of Jmmanuel himself, saying, "Truly, your evolution has proceeded for 2000 years further, which fact I have not considered." (page 512). The contact with Jmmanuel lasted for four days after which Meier was returned to the present time

Who knows, two thousand years from now, the gospels of billy might even be accepted as canon by a large following of faithful believers:rolleyes:
 
i358nl.jpg
 
Hi Goggs, yes that is me going to 15000 feet right before I jumped out, no UFOs that day though :)

I guess if I were on a religious forum or a religious debate forum I would expect more detbates in the religious realm. I have been on forums like that with credentialed theologians from all persuasions duking it out over the finer nits of the Bible. Tons of forums that deal specifically with religion with a lot of highly gifted minds and some not so gifted minds on them. These guys must be retired because they have tons of time to go look for information or have spent vast amounts of time learning the finer points on their interests and they are well prepared to overload you with more data than a mainframe at NASA.

If I say I'm Hindu or Christian or whatever in a forum not dedicated to religious discussion. Usually people just accept that fact and move on. They don't "usually" level an attack on that individual based on their beliefs. We just accept the background and belief of our fellow posters and move on from there, maybe acknowledging that they might see things a little differently because of their persuasion. It's called equal respect and fair space. If you say that you believe that you were born three times I would not agree but I am not going to beat you over the head indefinitly for that. Everyone is at their own place. Challenging someone on their belief and demanding some kind of proof isn't a bad thing but if you approach an individual like they are some kind of a retard because they hold a certain belief, if you publicly berate that person, if you had a bad experience in a religion and indirectly blame all participants for it, If you try to ram your facts and figures(made by opeople who ascribe to your belief) on another person this is out of line IMO.

Since I am Christian or maybe based on your definition of what a Christian is I'm not a Christian thats hard to say. I will say that the pre conceived notions here are over the top.

I'm not saying I never want to be questioned or that my skin is thin with regard to my beliefs. What I'm trying to say is that if I were going gung ho on religious philosophy and theory I would not come to a forum that is perdominantly trying to explain some of the unexplained. I would come well armed with the information needed to become involved in an in depth discussion on the topcs discussed and go to a forum for that purpose. I might use some of my knowledge in my belief to try to explain some of it from my perspective but I won't try to force that belief on you whoever you are.

Some here seem to have a thin skin and tolerance for Christianity or for possible theories regarding the Bible going so far as to insist it be squelched. If this is the case then the Athiest preachers need to do the same thing and stop preaching too. The truth of the matter is there are conflicting views on the so called facts presented.

Mike I'm sure you are a really decent guy. I never intended to get into an argument with any of you. I was basically drawn into a fight from my perspective. The incessant indirect slams are nothing but counter productive. The circular arguments are just that.

Rudders steer ships and thoughts determine outlooks and outcomes in both demeanor and behavior. There is no escaping that our world view will influence who we are and how we act. I don't think we can seperate the man from the belief.

IMO to put the shroud of science onto everything paranormal is a big mistake unless you think we can define the spiritual with the scientific. I think they are seperate realms.IMO our science is in the wrong domain to determine it in a way we can understand.

The study of Ufology is probably the most scientific in terms of paranormal subject matter. What a thing in the sky or the water is can run the gamut all the way from a spiritual entity to being a military drone. Ufology can fairly wear both hats IMO maybe should be divided into two disciplines. You can say the same thing about all of the others but the tendency more toward the spiritual and less toward the scientific in say a haunting....and this is probably where the Athiest differs in that they think it is all a scientific explanation.

So we have different views and the rants do nothing to make any headway here.
 
Starise, I respect you a lot for having a live and let live outlook on life. The world would be a much better place if more people felt that way.

And I normally try to stay out of religious discussions unless someone is really shoving thier beleifs on me after I've made it clear I'm not interested. And I may comment (read "RANT") on those in political power seeking to force their religion on me....that I will not tolerate under any circumstance.

But otherwise I feel as you do. Everyone deserves to thave their own beleifs, but does not have the right to force it on others.
 
IMO to put the shroud of science onto everything paranormal is a big mistake unless you think we can define the spiritual with the scientific. I think they are seperate realms.IMO our science is in the wrong domain to determine it in a way we can understand.

I disagree, imo the universe and its every function can be explained with science
There are no supernatural mechanisms in my world view.

There is nothing supernatural about how a car runs, nothing supernatural about how a computer works, or a sun burns or any other physical expression of the universe.

Supernatural explanations are just a way of avoiding the truth, ie that you dont know.

The term "God of the gaps" is sometimes used in describing the incremental retreat of religious explanations of physical phenomena in the face of increasingly comprehensive scientific explanations for those phenomena

IMO there are two honest answers available to a given question, either a comprehensive scientific explanation, or an admission of ignorance ie i dont know.

"God did it" is not an answer since god is an imaginary being, and thus a null factor in any equation.
We may as well claim the invisible pink unicorn did it or neptune did it.

Science can and will provide a comprehensive explanation for everything, we dont need supernatural explanations, they are primitive and ignorant.

Gods spirits faries and demons have been passed of as answers for far to long, by ignorant foolish ppl too proud to admit they just dont know the answer.
Thankfully humanity is slowly crawling out of this hole

There are no supernatural mechanisms, just understood and not understood ones

And yes i do have a thin skin for absurd superstitious rubbish, presented as a truth or answer for anything.

The bible is an primitive collection of scientific absurdity and downright hideous cruelty.

Albert Einstein: God is a Product of Human Weakness
The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.​
Albert Einstein: Human Fantasy Created Gods
During the youthful period of mankind's spiritual evolution, human fantasy created gods in man's own image who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate influence, the phenomenal world.​
- Albert Einstein, quoted in: 2000 Years of Disbelief,​

I'm not an athiest, how can i not believe in something that doesnt exist ?

I don't believe any gods exist, but I'm not an atheist any more than I am an asantaclausist or an aeasterbunnyist. Not believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny doesn't commit me to an ideology or belief system shared with others who reject the notion that such creatures exist. My disbelief in leprechauns doesn't unite me with millions of other aleprechaunists. The label of 'atheist' is one that theists use to create the illusion that their belief in spirits has some substance. I don't mind that theists devote themselves to illusions and delusions as long as they don't do me any harm. But they fill their concept of the atheist with a number of lies and falsehoods that attempt to denigrate those of us who don't share their belief in the existence of spirits. Theists are particularly prone to parading forth non sequiturs in their attempt to vilify those of us who don't believe that an invisible spirit created us or the world we live in.
The fact that I don't believe in an invisible being who is all-powerful and created everything in the universe for a reason does not mean that I think we are nothing but slime and might as well just kill ourselves. The fact that I don't believe in angels who watch over us and grant us wishes from time to time doesn't mean that I think life is meaningless and we might as well just kill our neighbors. From the fact that I don't believe in miracles it does not follow that I believe we are just dirt. It means I don't believe that things happen because of intervention by spirits. From the fact that I don't believe divine commands are necessary for moral values, it does not follow that I don't believe in right and wrong.
Theists use the term 'atheist' to designate those they claim don't believe in right or wrong, think existence is meaningless, and who corrupt society by not adhering to the codes of some religion like Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. But from the fact that there aren't any gods it does not follow that there is no right or wrong, that a meaningful life is impossible, or that society will disintegrate into a war of selfish egoists against selfish egoists. Why would theists want to believe such obvious nonsense? For one thing, it deceives them into thinking they are relieved from self-examination. Faith in their religious beliefs is all they need. The more vile they make the atheist look, the more beatific they make themselves look, or so they seem to think. One thing they might discover upon self-examination is that from the fact that one believes certain commands came from God it doesn't follow that they do.
The theist thinks he has an advantage over those of us who don't believe in any gods, but his books and beliefs are just props that he uses to justify his take on what is right or wrong. The theist has no more insight than anyone else into what the right thing to do is in any given situation. The fact that theists disagree about morals should be their first clue.
The theist would trick himself into believing that his life is meaningful because he is following some rules and thinks he'll be rewarded with eternal life. He believes that he was created to follow a set of rules laid down by his creator, and that if he follows the rules, he'll get to spend an eternity worshipping this rule maker. A meaningful life, however, is one that is productive, useful, creative, and enjoyable. A life spent obeying rules may be none of those things.
Theists claim that atheists think everything is an accident and a human being is a collection of material particles that will disintegrate at death. It apparently doesn't occur to the theist that that's true whether there is a god or not. Of course, they like to throw in the word 'just' to make the distortion complete. According to the theist, the atheist thinks we're just an accident and just a collection of particles.
The atheist is a straw man created by theists. Every day there are hundreds of pious theists who write articles and books against atheism, as if atheism were a belief system. They attack one chimera after another and pat themselves on the back for slaying these evil dragons they call atheists. In the meantime, they don't examine their own lives or beliefs. I'm not suggesting, however, that theists would do a better job of self-examination than they have tearing apart the straw man they've created. The books and articles promoting the positive side of theism are usually little more than pabulum and feel-good pieces on the level of Chicken Soup for the Soul or The Purpose Driven Life.
I'm not an atheist because the atheist is a figment of the theist's imagination, a figment that is used to divert attention away from the dangerous delusions theists harbor. The most dangerous theistic delusion, of course, is that faith is superior to reason and that reason should be used to distort the truth whenever needed in order to defend doctrines of faith. The promotion of irrationality is one of the most harmful effects of theism. Some theists even condemn atheists for promoting rationality and science, and they do this with a straight face. They mean it. They accuse us of preferring reason to faith, as if that were a bad thing.
.
 
Natalie Angier wrote in The New York Times: "The End of Faith articulates the dangers and absurdities of organized religion so fiercely and so fearlessly that I felt relieved as I read it, vindicated....Harris writes what a sizable number of us think, but few are willing to say."

This important and timely book delivers a startling analysis of the clash of faith and reason in today's world. Harris offers a vivid historical tour of mankind's willingness to suspend reason in favor of religious beliefs, even when those beliefs are used to justify harmful behavior and sometimes-heinous crimes.
He asserts that in the shadow of weapons of mass destruction, we can no longer tolerate views that pit one true god against another. Most controversially, he argues that we cannot afford moderate lip service to religion; an accommodation that only blinds us to the real perils of fundamentalism. While warning against the encroachment of organized religion into world politics, Harris also draws on new evidence from neuroscience and insights from philosophy to explore spirituality as a biological, brain-based need. He calls on us to invoke that need in taking a secular humanistic approach to solving the problems of this world.
The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason: Sam Harris: 9780393327656: Amazon.com: Books
 
As Harris says, we can no longer afford moderate lip service to this throwback thinking.

ITS WAR

There is no middle ground, there is no touchy feely agree to disagree solution here.
There are two mutually exclusive pov's its a war between reason and logic, and ignorance and superstition.
Its a war thats been in existance since Galileo was put in prison by the forces of ignorance, for being right, and is being fought now.
It wont be over until ignorance and superstition are consigned to the history books along with the religions that were their greatest patrons.

Humanity can not nor should not tolerate these absurd ideas any longer.

Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it, religion has actually convinced people that there's an INVISIBLE MAN...LIVING IN THE SKY...who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever 'til the end of time...but he loves you. [George Carlin, from "You Are All Diseased"]

Quotes on Religion - George Carlin
 
As Harris says, we can no longer afford moderate lip service to this throwback thinking.

ITS WAR

There is no middle ground, there is no touchy feely agree to disagree solution here.
There are two mutually exclusive pov's its a war between reason and logic, and ignorance and superstition.
Its a war thats been in existance since Galileo was put in prison by the forces of ignorance, for being right, and is being fought now.
It wont be over until ignorance and superstition are consigned to the history books along with the religions that were their greatest patrons.

Humanity can not nor should not tolerate these absurd ideas any longer.



Quotes on Religion - George Carlin

So more or less this then Mike.

ankn4.jpg
 
You're not wrong mate.

The religious truly believe it was an attack by one sect, against theirs.

But in reality it was an attack by ignorance and superstition on reason and logic.

I think flying planes into a building was a faith-based initiative. I think religion is a neurological disorder.
Bill Maher

Just like every other religious nutter on the planet, this lot truly believed their faith justified their insane behaviour......................

Logic and reason, and decency took a back seat to a fairytale ideology.

And the bible has its own examples of the exact same same insanity

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

When their god commands it, the deed is evil
When "our" god commands it its just and righteous............

From my seat in the theatre, they are both screwed up, and blind to the fact
 
Thanks exo-doc for your comments here.

You are right Mike it is war, war for the hearts and minds of men. The attempted comparitive analysis of all religions and beliefs from your perspective is seriously flawed. If you believe in nothing then why do you try so hard to keep everyone else from believing in something that isn't when it comes to God?

If there is nothing of any value in religion or in the pursuit of God then why are you fighting so hard here? I say it is because you either knowingly or unkowingly are a pawn in the game between good and evil. The goal of the enemy has always been deception and misinformation.

I know you and a few others here are Athiest. You know by now that I'm not. I actually think that this makes the discussions more healthy with regard to alternate viewpoints.

To say that "God did it" as you said isn't necessarily going backward as there are many things we can't understand yet. Even when we finally understand it God still did it.We may use what God did but He still did it.

Sadly I have to agree we are at war but I don't hate the soldiers. I have my views that are founded both on personal experiences and factual basis. They run totally opposite from your views...sorry man that's just the way it is.

When you continue the same stories over and over about how cruel you think God is remember the Ninevites who were not Jewish and who God sent Jonah to minister to even though they had killed many Jews in very cruel ways. ....none of this matters because I feel you are mainly here to push your agenda. Discussion with you is probably not going anywhere . I have been reading the scriptures for years your cruel God scenario holds no water with me nor will it ever.
 
Well thats fairly typical of mindsets like yours, Faith inspired denial is necessary in order to reconcile the facts with the beliefs.
You cant for example reconcile "kind and loving god" who looks over all his children, with the horror of rape, and resulting pregnancy....... Well you can try

Indiana Senate candidate Richard Mourdock said that pregnancies resulting from rape are part of God's plan, that they were "intended to happen."


The god character in the bible is cruel

I kill ... I wound ...
I will make my arrows
drunk with blood,
and my sword shall devour flesh.
—Deuteronomy 32.39-42

Did you know, for example, that God:

  • Forced friends and family to kill each other for dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf?
  • Burned Aaron's sons to death for offering him strange fire?
  • Burned complainers to death, forced the survivors to eat quail until it literally came out their noses, sent "fiery serpents" to bite people for complaining about the lack of food and water, and killed 14,700 for complaining about his killings?
  • Buried alive those that opposed Moses (along with their families)?
  • Burned 250 men to death for burning incense?
  • Rewarded Phinehas for throwing a spear though the bellies of an inter-tribal couple while they were having sex?
  • Ordered, assisted in, or approved of dozens of complete genocides?
  • Accepted human sacrifice in the cases of Jephthah's daughter and Saul's seven sons?
  • Helped Samson murder thirty men for their clothes, slaughter 1000 with the jawbone of an ass, and kill 3000 civilians in a a suicide terrorist attack?
  • Smote the Philistines of several cities with hemorrhoids in their secret parts?
  • Killed a man for trying to keep the ark of the covenant from falling and 50,070 for looking into the ark?
  • Approved when David bought his first wife with 200 Philistine foreskins?
  • Killed King Saul for not killing every Amalekite as he told him to do?
  • Slowly killed a baby to punish King David for committing adultery?
  • Killed 70,000 because David had a census that he (or Satan) told him to do?
  • Sent a lion to kill a prophet for believing another prophet's lie, another lion to kill a man for not smiting a prophet, and some more lions to kill people that didn't fear him enough?
  • Killed 450 religious leaders who lost a prayer contest with Elijah and burned 102 men to death for asking Elijah to come down from his hill?
  • Sent two bears to rip apart 42 boys for making fun of Elisha's bald head?
  • Killed 27,000 Syrians by having a wall fall on them, sent an angel to kill 185,000 sleeping soldiers, interfered in human battles to kill a half million Israelite and a million Ethiopian soldiers?
  • Killed King Ahab for not killing a captured king, and then sent King Jehu on a series of mass murders to kill all of Ahab's family and friends who had ever "pissed against a wall?"
  • Killed Jehoram by making his bowels fall out?
  • Killed Job's ten children in a bet with Satan?
  • Killed Ezekiel's wife and told him not to mourn her?
  • Killed Ananias and Sapphira for not giving Peter all their money?
  • Killed King Herod by feeding him to worms?
All of these killings, and more, are found in the Bible, and the God of the Bible is proud of each one.

So your claim this character is not cruel, is simply not supported by the facts.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil..." (Isa 5:20).

The Dark Bible: Sex, Obscenities, Filth

The Dark Bible: Atrocities
 
Actually, I think there still are people who deify the Sun, which makes it their God, and it is definitely real, therefore God ( at least this God ) definitely exists.

The further one regresses in time, the more obvious it becomes that the principal and singular religious worship found around the globe has revolved around nature.

This nature worship has included reverence not only for the earth, its creatures and their fecundity, but also for the sun, moon, planets and stars. For many thousands of years, man has looked to the skies and become awestruck by what he has observed. This awe has led to the reverence and worship both of the night and day skies, an adoration called "astrotheology."

While fertility worship has constituted an important and prevalent part of the human religion, little has astonished humankind more than the sky, with its enormous, blazing, white day orb in the azure expanse, and with its infinite, twinkling, black night dome.

So fascinated by the sky, or heavens, has been man that he has created entire religions, with organized priesthoods, complex rituals and massive edifices, in order to tell its story.
Astrotheology of the Ancients

As is evident, the study and reverence of the heavens goes back many millennia, and has constituted in large part the original religious concepts developed by humanity. As is also clear, the ancients were well aware that they were worshipping the sun, moon, stars and "all the host of heaven." Entire cultures were based upon astrotheology, and numerous magnificent edifices were constructed for its glorification. Indeed, the proscription by biblical writers shows how important and widespread was this worship of the cosmic bodies and natural phenomena. The Church fathers and other Christian writers also acknowledged this astrotheology and its antiquity, but denigrated it as much as possible. Why? What would a detailed investigation reveal about their own ideology? As demonstrated in The Christ Conspiracy and here, the knowledge about astrotheology would reveal the Christians' own religion to be Pagan in virtually every significant aspect, constituting a remake of the ancient religion
 
Actually, I think there still are people who deify the Sun, which makes it their God, and it is definitely real, therefore God ( at least this God ) definitely exists.


:)

Thanks guys you got the reference.

That was the main thing that stuck out above all others while I was in the study of the development of religion.
Really it is not hard to see this with a little study, the more you go back in time the more belief becomes centered around natural phenomena, and it should really come as no surprise at all, for if you think about it the answer is really quite obvious as to why.

Early man had no way of knowing that the sun was a star and our home world was in orbit around it, they also had no way of knowing that lighting was a natural product of atmospheric conditions and that earthquakes, volcanoes, tidal waves etc were simply the products of an ever changing planet.

Simply the God of the gaps in its early form.

But in some respect they truly understood that all life was bound to the sun, but that is not really surprising either, given that if there is no sun or very little it gets cold and plants do not grow. In the end it is not that much of a stretch to see why the Sun was deified and the same can be said for all other natural phenomena.

It is interesting to note that as we advance intellectually and scientifically God goes from being something like a volcano or a special tree which you can see etc to outside the universe and the physical realm... Carl Sagan pointed this out by the way in his usual poetic way but I can not find the video right now or I would post it.
 
Yes indeed if you look at the reality without the filters of religious brainwashing it all becomes clear.

Bit by bit we have replaced superstition and ignorance with scientific evidence and knowledge.


Educational presenter Bill Nye said the belief in creationism should end with the current generation in a recent web video for Big Think.

“So, once in a while I get people that really — or that claim — they don’t believe in evolution,” Nye said. “And my response generally is ‘Well, why not? Really, why not?’ Your world just becomes fantastically complicated when you don’t believe in evolution. I mean, here are these ancient dinosaur bones or fossils, here is radioactivity, here are distant stars that are just like our star but they’re at a different point in their lifecycle.”

“The idea of deep time, of this billions of years, explains so much of the world around us” he added. “If you try to ignore that, your world view just becomes crazy, just untenable, itself inconsistent.”

The crux of Nye’s argument lies in his implied purpose for speaking out—that Americans need to embrace science over belief for the sake of a better society.

Science Guy Promotes Evolution Over Creationism - Science News - redOrbit
 
Back
Top