The 1980 Cash-Landrum sighting and investigation

[Trajanus]

that's the unconfirmed bit right there - totally hearsay, no one has his confirmed statement on that one.

Hmmm...I thought Mantell's alleged "Oh my god there are people in this thing!"was unconfirmed but "it's metallic and of tremendous size" was.

i don't know if you can jump to that conclusion, just as with Valentich. in all these cases wreckage has ultimately been found that is believed to be linked or confirmed,

Mantell definitely, but dunno if the piece of wreckage recovered in '68(?) was ever proven to be from Moncla's F-89.

but either way, i don't see ET as being responsible for their actions.

Probably not Moncla but Mantell...debatable IMO.

 

[Sentry]

Just published online, a 36 page PDF from the Texas Department of Health’s Bureau of Radiation Control file on their investigation of site radioactivity in Cash-Landrum UFO case of 1980.

The file contains the report of a field investigation by TDH agents, the results of their geiger counter tests and also the analysis of soil samples taken at the scene. While the results were discussed in the media, I'm unaware of any previous publication of the report itself, and certainly not of the raw files themselves.

There's an article giving background details and an index of the files at
Texas Department of Health file on the Cash-Landrum UFO case

To go directly to the files themselves, go to Cash-Landrum TDH file 36 page PDF

The information in the files about the sighting location is fairly earth-shaking to the case. My attempts to contact the original investigators have failed, so I've chosen to disclose it publicly. This is a serious matter worthy of further investigation.

I've been sitting on this for a long time. Jim Moseley was one of the few I'd shared this with. This one's for you, Jim.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Wow! Going to town. Thanks!

 

[Sentry]

Thanks Jeff! I'm eager to hear your thoughts on this. When I was on the show and Gene asked me if there were any new discoveries on the case, I had to hold my tongue. I've tried repeatedly to contact the investigators to hear their side of things, but get no answer. Maybe this will shake something loose. Now, others can help ask the questions.

 

[kellyiom]

I don't think so, in part because the rockets that got it off the ground only functioned briefly. Then there were the little men--seen in association with a rocket propelled UFO on at least one other occasion.



They could have hidden bases in our solar system and testing the effects of radiation on us



They kept no records? You'd think if the engineers or others behind it were aware of the ruckus it caused, by now one or more would've come forward.





There should be some documentation in that case, or a clear identification after 33 years.

sorry

Thanks Jeff! I'm eager to hear your thoughts on this. When I was on the show and Gene asked me if there were any new discoveries on the case, I had to hold my tongue. I've tried repeatedly to contact the investigators to hear their side of things, but get no answer. Maybe this will shake something loose. Now, others can help ask the questions.

wow, truly great work there, congrats. sorry for going off piste but do you think it funny that Socorro means Help! in Spanish ? or coincidence ?

 

[boomerang]

Just published online, a 36 page PDF from the Texas Department of Health’s Bureau of Radiation Control file on their investigation of site radioactivity in Cash-Landrum UFO case of 1980.

The file contains the report of a field investigation by TDH agents, the results of their geiger counter tests and also the analysis of soil samples taken at the scene. While the results were discussed in the media, I'm unaware of any previous publication of the report itself, and certainly not of the raw files themselves.

There's an article giving background details and an index of the files at
Texas Department of Health file on the Cash-Landrum UFO case

To go directly to the files themselves, go to Cash-Landrum TDH file 36 page PDF

The information in the files about the sighting location is fairly earth-shaking to the case. My attempts to contact the original investigators have failed, so I've chosen to disclose it publicly. This is a serious matter worthy of further investigation.

I've been sitting on this for a long time. Jim Moseley was one of the few I'd shared this with. This one's for you, Jim.

Great find ! Can you give us a hint regarding the next step in your investigation of Cash-Landrum?

 

[Sentry]

Thanks, boomerang. I have to admit to running out of steam after hitting so many dead ends. There are some more unpublished files I'll share, but most of it amounts to footnotes about the case. At this point, I feel like I'm mostly popping balloons. Still, I feel documenting as much as possible on the case (pro or con) has value.

On another front, I'm working on tracing the rumors, misinformation and lies that were spread about the case. Those tales generated some mythology that is still obscuring things. Much of it was spread by two prime Roswell / MJ-12 players, William Moore and Richard Doty.

There may be some government files we don't know about, and of course I'd love to see those. What I feel would benefit the case is a release of the original 1981 report by John Schuessler that was distributed to MUFON, CUFOS and APRO. Since there was no police or Air Force investigation, this is the "best evidence". We need to see what was in the original report, not rely what was said about it later.

 

[boomerang]

Thanks, boomerang. I have to admit to running out of steam after hitting so many dead ends. There are some more unpublished files I'll share, but most of it amounts to footnotes about the case. At this point, I feel like I'm mostly popping balloons. Still, I feel documenting as much as possible on the case (pro or con) has value.

On another front, I'm working on tracing the rumors, misinformation and lies that were spread about the case. Those tales generated some mythology that is still obscuring things. Much of it was spread by two prime Roswell / MJ-12 players, William Moore and Richard Doty.

There may be some government files we don't know about, and of course I'd love to see those. What I feel would benefit the case is a release of the original 1981 report by John Schuessler that was distributed to MUFON, CUFOS and APRO. Since there was no police or Air Force investigation, this is the "best evidence". We need to see what was in the original report, not rely what was said about it later.

I don't see the lack of evidence of ionizing radiation as contrary to what we seem to know about events and post incident conditions of the witnesses. Seems like you have posted links regarding this. Missing medical records are, for me anyway, the most tantalizing part of this mystery.

Have you tried or considered trying to gain an interview with Colby Landrum ? I think there is still the possibility he will open up on the subject as he gets older. As many witnesses do.

At any rate--Thanks again for your substantial contributions to this case.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Sentry,
This is indeed, as you stated, earth shaking with respect to the solidity of the case itself as reported. Due to the fact that you have uncovered this information, I now question Schuessler's motives more than anyone.

In your opinion Curtis, did MUFON, via Schuessler over sensationalize this case in an attempt to either a) elicit a government response with respect to damages to the witnesses, or b) merely attempt to fortify an attention getting effort? Either way, as you stated, one is left seriously doubting the case far more so than supporting it at this point.

I don't doubt for a second that something occurred however. What exactly seems more so unclear than ever at this point.

Kudos for the GREAT work here! This is REALLY cool Sentry. Other than Blue Blurry Lines, this is sort of like a Sentry/Paracast exclusive. I applaud you for doing as good a job as you did of keeping it under raps as you attempted to contact some of those originally involved.

 

[Sentry]

I've about emptied the cookie jar:
Another Cash-Landrum file, including an examination of Betty Cash's medical records

 

[Muadib]

I've about emptied the cookie jar:
Another Cash-Landrum file, including an examination of Betty Cash's medical records

Very interesting Sentry, you certainly have done some exceptional work on bringing different aspects of this case to light. When I read the post you linked I noticed that a hospital examination of Betty Cash was set to be funded by the Fund For UFO Research and yet it never seems to have happened. Do you have any idea why this is? I've seen a lot of the skeptics, including Robert Schaeffer who published a recent blog post on the case, are now referring to the case as a probable hoax. Do you agree with that assessment? Thanks in advance if you have time to answer.

 

[Sentry]

Muadib, No, I can only speculate about the FUFOR exam, but notice this seems to be the second time that medical help was refused. Worth noting, though that an examination did take place at Houston Methodist Hospital for "That's Incredible!" Possibly that served instead.

As to the hoax question, I'm not ready to label it such. What we may have here is a genuine case and a faulty or fraudulent investigation.

 

[boomerang]

Sentry, I'm hoping you might have plans to compile all this great stuff into a book on the Cash-Landrum incident. Looks like there is more than enough documentation.

The letter from Dr. Peter Rank to John Schuessler is well worth reading. If nothing else, Dr. Rank seems to take the medical aspects of the case quite seriously.

In point 1, he states: "I have talked to Dr. Shenoy in depth."
We take it Dr. Shenoy was Betty Cash's cardiologist of some years? He presumably regarded Betty and her complaints as credible.

In point 3 : "To date Betty has been worked up remarkably well." "She has had a complete physical examination."

4A: "Both women sustained some evidence of scalp damage including hair loss."

4B: "Betty had simultaneous loss of nails on the second through fifth digit of the right hand."

4E: "The patient's history seems very reliable."

A possibly significant finding because it is so medically precise may be found in 4 F : "The biopsy specimen describes the dissolution of intracellular bridges....may be feature of ionizing radiation."

In Point 7 : "The conclusion I can make so far is that radiation damage occurred, type unknown...."

Even if the cookie jar is empty, what is already on the table could keep us busy for a while. I lean in the direction of your observation that this is more likely to be a mishandled investigation than a garden variety hoax.

 

[Sentry]

4B: "Betty had simultaneous loss of nails on the second through fifth digit of the right hand."

I believe Dr. Rank mistyped the name. There are several other references to Vickie losing fingernails, but none of Betty.

Thanks for your interest and support. I like your idea about a book, but I wrote a 7 page article for the second issue of UFO Today magazine and it was draining, far harder than I imagined. The case definitely deserves further examination, but for now I'm just focusing on unearthing and making public what I can.

By the way, skeptic Robert Sheaffer picked up on my article and has written a piece at his blog:
Bad UFOs: Skepticism, UFOs, and The Universe - by Robert Sheaffer: Between a Beer Joint and Some kind of Highway Warning Sign: the "Classic" Cash-Landrum Case Unravels

 

[Burnt State]

Sentry, you seem to have a real passion for the subject. Don't rule out the book idea. Trying to create seven polished pages to capture something extensive is a task. But writing longer books is just like chopping wood. You chunk out how much you want to get accomplished each day, and in what order you want to do it in. Then you keep whacking each day until you're done. I betcha Nick Redfern can chop out a cord in an afternoon; he's one of those oldschool lumberjack types. It's just about patient discipline and it's easier if you have it all mapped out in your head already. You can do it.

 

[Sentry]

Thanks, Burnt State. For me, it's dealing with documentation that bogs me down. For now, I'll concentrate on organizing the material and blogging it. Each piece is almost a chapter, so maybe if not chopping, I'm chipping my way there.

Two more entries:
Blue Blurry Lines: The DAIG Investigation of the Cash-Landrum UFO Incident, John B. Alexander’s Involvement and Opinions

Blue Blurry Lines: Cash-Landrum UFO Case: The Legend of the Scorched Road

 

[Burnt State]

Thanks, Burnt State. For me, it's dealing with documentation that bogs me down. For now, I'll concentrate on organizing the material and blogging it. Each piece is almost a chapter, so maybe if not chopping, I'm chipping my way there.

Two more entries:
Blue Blurry Lines: The DAIG Investigation of the Cash-Landrum UFO Incident, John B. Alexander’s Involvement and Opinions

Blue Blurry Lines: Cash-Landrum UFO Case: The Legend of the Scorched Road

Well you are definitely structuring it; just don't give away too many personal opinions as you'll want to save that to provide colour and personality for the book. This is such an exceptional primary source that you've built at Blue Blurry Lines. I would hate for a lumberjack to come along and stack it all before you do!

 

[Jeff Davis]

Muadib, No, I can only speculate about the FUFOR exam, but notice this seems to be the second time that medical help was refused. Worth noting, though that an examination did take place at Houston Methodist Hospital for "That's Incredible!" Possibly that served instead.

As to the hoax question, I'm not ready to label it such. What we may have here is a genuine case and a faulty or fraudulent investigation.

This really jumped out at me via the whole "return to the exact location of the event" false reporting. John F. Schuessler's official follow up that your presented documentation of the case bears out all too clearly, shows an absolute contradiction. Bummer, but far more GOOD than the disappointment that will fade soon enough as the truth prevails and opens new doors.

That scorched road BS was a monstrous red flag for me. In terms of a run away imagination, one is left wondering if he may have possibly been approached and coerced by one of the many prototypical developers he had associations with in the professional aerospace community. Even if such a relationship were only vaguely peripheral in nature. Such a contractor, not wanting to be ruined at the cost of his officially charged investigations, knowing full well Mr. Schuessler's accredited academics, and professionally grounded investigative qualifications relating to the matter, they may have suggested to him to derail the case. In terms of withholding medical record information due to a direct effort to maintain control over information that was integral to the preparation and execution of the damages case.

The thing I note too, via BBL, is how via your EXCELLENT chronological time line of blog entries, that reference the historic blunder building of what we now know is a falsely supported case, I see well your fairytale connotation. It's amazing how the progressively developing cache of faux information continues to build successively like a mounting collective edifice to ignorance concerning the matter. All due to some botched or intentional false initial investigative reporting. Weak Schuessler, weak!

Who would have thought we would see these developments at this point in time. It's like the newly released SUNlite article that you shared on the forum recently Sentry. Man, am I ever interested in the authenticity of that MUFON reps claims from that article. It's always better to know the truth. Keep up the great investigative efforts Sentry. Whatever they bring, we are lucky to have you bring them here.

 

[Sentry]

I'm slightly reluctant to post this here, as it mentions other shows, and but this is NEWS:

Martin Willis of UFO Podcast just announced that he's obtained a commitment from the reclusive Colby Landrum to come on the show and discuss his experiences in the Cash-Landrum case in "the next two or three weeks".
Listening to The Sky-Empowered Talk on the CBS Local Media Player

I (Curt Collins) was supposed to be part of a show on the case anniversary along with Chris Lambright (a key secondary original investigator). Martin mentioned the chance of Colby joining us, but I thought, "yeah, right". Now it's happening!

I'm really jazzed about this and now the challenge will be to shut up and let Colby talk. This is big!

Martin's site is Podcast UFO

More details to follow when available!

 

[boomerang]

I'm slightly reluctant to post this here, as it mentions other shows, and but this is NEWS:

Martin Willis of UFO Podcast just announced that he's obtained a commitment from the reclusive Colby Landrum to come on the show and discuss his experiences in the Cash-Landrum case in "the next two or three weeks".
Listening to The Sky-Empowered Talk on the CBS Local Media Player

I (Curt Collins) was supposed to be part of a show on the case anniversary along with Chris Lambright (a key secondary original investigator). Martin mentioned the chance of Colby joining us, but I thought, "yeah, right". Now it's happening!

I'm really jazzed about this and now the challenge will be to shut up and let Colby talk. This is big!

Martin's site is Podcast UFO

More details to follow when available!

I want a saved Podcast of this one !