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Great point. Pygar's perpetuating the myth of rich people as "job creators," the rich don't create jobs, demand creates jobs. No demand, no jobs, they don't hire people out of charity, they hire them to service customer demand and when demand plummets, so go the jobs. Also, let's not pretend that they don't try to keep that as profitable for themselves as possible, which is fine, but you'll have to excuse me if I don't feel some overwhelming sense of reverence towards these folks. Most of them will cut an American job and figure out a way to bone their employees out of their pensions as fast as they can if it will make them and their shareholders a few extra bucks, all the while taking government handouts to stay afloat like the welfare cases they so despise. Hypocrisy is an ugly thing. Take a few minutes to watch this TED talk about the myth of the rich as benevolent job creators and keep in mind that this is coming from a billionaire.

It is the parasite saying to the host, "You need me to exist."
 

I like this video and agree totally with what he is saying - and definitely agree about the smashing of the 'intelligentsia' (in the US) during the 1950's with McCarthyism. We saw something similar happening in Maoist China and were very sniffily superior about such 'book burning' and pilloring of intellectuals - smugly certain (in our ignorance) that it would never happen here in the US. Yet it had, was happening, to great effect.

There is one thing I am not quite on board with, though. While I for sure have met specimens of the very rich he is describing (and in my case they tend to be foreign rich transplanted here to the US - some such people definitely do not have any appreciation of US democracy) - but I do not experience American 'old wealth' families like he posits. I think he has a bias that is skewing his personal vision - but he has his reasons, it's clear.
 
I think he has a bias that is skewing his personal vision - but he has his reasons, it's clear.

Oh for sure, we would both be foolish not to notice that and of course we all develop our own personal level of bias when it comes down it. But I do agree with a good 90% or more of what he is saying.
 
Great point. Pygar's perpetuating the myth of rich people as "job creators," the rich don't create jobs, demand creates jobs. No demand, no jobs, they don't hire people out of charity, they hire them to service customer demand and when demand plummets, so go the jobs. Also, let's not pretend that they don't try to keep their hiring practices as profitable for themselves as possible, which is fine, but you'll have to excuse me if I don't feel some overwhelming sense of reverence towards these folks. Most of them will cut an American job and figure out a way to bone their employees out of their pensions as fast as they can if it will make them and their shareholders a few extra bucks, all the while taking government handouts to stay afloat like the welfare cases they so despise. Hypocrisy is an ugly thing. Take a few minutes to watch this TED talk about the myth of the rich as benevolent job creators and keep in mind that this is coming from a billionaire.


To much truth there is there not? Great post man.
 
Clearly, no one read past the first few words of my last post. There are just as many jobs as ever- but they are waiting for the next rich person to drag them into existence, same as every job that currently exists. The reasons that so many jobs are going overseas are well known- correct the problems on this end that make *them* more employable! Oh, and mutualism and parasitism are two different things. A worker in an empty lot with empty hands, won't be earning profit for himself or anyone else.
I can't see any videos on this site- you wouldn't believe how many sites want to run javascript on this particular page alone, and aren't going to get to- but if it is just another bunch of RedTalk from people who think that rich people are not the enablers they are, why do I need to hear them? Again, anyone who dislikes the rich can go ask a hobo for a job, using the facilities and raw materials owned by him.
 
"If a man has an apartment stacked to the ceiling with newspapers, we call him crazy. If a woman has a trailer house full of cats, we call her nuts. But when people pathologically hoard so much cash that they impoverish the entire nation, we put them on the cover of Fortune magazine and pretend that they are role models." - B.Lester

This is not about smart people who are able to manipulate the system we have. What we have is simply a variation - albeit an exceedingly sophisticated version - of a tribal system. Time to move past our primitive beginnings.
 
Clearly, no one read past the first few words of my last post. There are just as many jobs as ever- but they are waiting for the next rich person to drag them into existence, same as every job that currently exists. The reasons that so many jobs are going overseas are well known- correct the problems on this end that make *them* more employable! Oh, and mutualism and parasitism are two different things. A worker in an empty lot with empty hands, won't be earning profit for himself or anyone else.
I can't see any videos on this site- you wouldn't believe how many sites want to run javascript on this particular page alone, and aren't going to get to- but if it is just another bunch of RedTalk from people who think that rich people are not the enablers they are, why do I need to hear them? Again, anyone who dislikes the rich can go ask a hobo for a job, using the facilities and raw materials owned by him.
Did you know that China is loosing jobs to Bangladesh due to the high wages in China. The correction that is needed at this end, to get the ruling elite to give *them* the ruling elite's jobs, is for *them* to work for less than the Bangladeshi. Is your perfect system that one person owns everything and everyone else lives in abject poverty? Also *them's* working conditions would need to be lower than Bangladesh for the ruling elite to bestow work to *them*.
Bangladesh taking jobs away from China
Bangladesh has the lowest garment wages in the world, according to labour rights advocates. Akthar, who is relatively well paid by local standards, earns about $64 a month. That compares to minimum wages in China’s coastal industrial provinces ranging from $117 to $147 a month.
 
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"If a man has an apartment stacked to the ceiling with newspapers, we call him crazy. If a woman has a trailer house full of cats, we call her nuts. But when people pathologically hoard so much cash that they impoverish the entire nation, we put them on the cover of Fortune magazine and pretend that they are role models." - B.Lester

This is not about smart people who are able to manipulate the system we have. What we have is simply a variation - albeit an exceedingly sophisticated version - of a tribal system. Time to move past our primitive beginnings.

Can I ask you what you do for a living? Just generally. Personally, and I won't discuss it much because of my own personality, but I honestly think that it's extremely misguided to blame the rich when in all reality it's just 545 people that are specifically to blame. Why have we lost our collective objectivity here? Can any one of us deny ANY of the following? Nope.

From Charlie Reese:
Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.
Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?
Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?
You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does.
You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.
You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.
You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.
You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.
One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.
I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.
I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.
Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The President can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.
The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? John Boehner. He is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members, not the President, can approve any budget they want. If the President vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.
It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.
If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.
If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.
If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it's because they want them in Iraq and Afghanistan ...
If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.
There are no insoluble government problems.
Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power.
Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.
Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.
They, and they alone, have the power.
They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses.
Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees...
We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.
What you do with this article now that you have read it... is up to you.

This might be funny if it weren't so true. Be sure to read all the way to the end:
Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table,
At which he's fed.
Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.
Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for
peanuts anyway!
Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.
Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.
Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.
Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.
Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his ass.
Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.
When he screams and hollers;
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.
Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid...
Put these words
Upon his tomb,
'Taxes drove me
to my doom...'
When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply:
The inheritance tax.
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Sales Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was the most prosperous in the world.
We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What in the heck happened? Can you spell 'politicians?'

I hope this goes around THE USA at least 545 times!!! YOU can help it get there!!!
GO AHEAD. . . BE AN AMERICAN!!!
 
.
Can I ask you what you do for a living? Just generally. Personally, and I won't discuss it much because of my own personality, but I honestly think that it's extremely misguided to blame the rich when in all reality it's just 545 people that are specifically to blame. Why have we lost our collective objectivity here? Can any one of us deny ANY of the following? Nope.

From Charlie Reese:
Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.
Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?
Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?
You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does.
You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.
You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.
You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.
You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.
One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.
I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.
I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.
Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The President can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.
The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? John Boehner. He is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members, not the President, can approve any budget they want. If the President vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.
It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.
If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.
If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.
If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it's because they want them in Iraq and Afghanistan ...
If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.
There are no insoluble government problems.
Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power.
Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.
Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.
They, and they alone, have the power.
They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses.
Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees...
We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.
What you do with this article now that you have read it... is up to you.

This might be funny if it weren't so true. Be sure to read all the way to the end:
Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table,
At which he's fed.
Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.
Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for
peanuts anyway!
Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.
Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.
Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.
Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.
Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his ass.
Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.
When he screams and hollers;
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.
Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid...
Put these words
Upon his tomb,
'Taxes drove me
to my doom...'
When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply:
The inheritance tax.
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Sales Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was the most prosperous in the world.
We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What in the heck happened? Can you spell 'politicians?'

I hope this goes around THE USA at least 545 times!!! YOU can help it get there!!!
GO AHEAD. . . BE AN AMERICAN!!!

Exceptional post Jeff.....*golf clap*

I know that this post was addressed to tyger but I would like to make a few comments: If you would like to know who runs the world, and what they do, here are their names:
Exposing the Financial Core of the Transnational Capitalist Class:
From the article:
These 161 directors are part of Rothkopf’s superclass. Given their control over $23.91 trillion, Western governments and international policy bodies serve the interests of this financial core of the TCC. Wars are initiated to protect their interests, and to promote the free flow of global capital for investment anywhere that returns are possible. Identifying the people with such power and influence is an important part of any democratic movement seeking to protect our commons so that all humans might share and prosper.37

Appendix

Citizenship, CB-Corporate Boards, PE-Prior Corporate Employment/Boards, PC-Policy Councils & Government, E-Universities N=161

Barclays PLC (Assets $2.4 Trillion)

Antony Peter Jenkins, UK, CB-Group Chief Executive, Barclays PLC, PE-Citibank, Visa Europe Ltd, Absa Group Limited, PC-World Economic Forum-2013, Chartered Institute of Bankers, British-American Business—International Council, E-Oxford University, Cranfield Institute of Technology-MBA
more:
Exposing the Financial Core of the Transnational Capitalist Class | Global Research
The book he is talking about is: Superclass: The Global Power Elite and the World They Are Making
Today's superclass has achieved unprecedented levels of wealth and power. They have globalized more rapidly than any other group. But do they have more in common with one another than with their own countrymen. They control globalization more than anyone else. But has their influence fed the growing economic and social inequity that divides the world? What happens behind closeddoor meetings in Davos or aboard corporate jets at 41,000 feet? Conspiracy or collaboration? Deal-making or idle self-indulgence? What does the rise of Asia and Latin America mean for the conventional wisdom that shapes our destinies? Who sets the rules for a group that operates beyond national laws?
Superclass: The Global Power Elite and the World They Are Making: David Rothkopf: 9780374531614: Books - Amazon.ca
One more book on this subject:Government of the Shadows: Parapolitics and Criminal Sovereignty
Government of the Shadows analyses the concept of clandestine government. It explores how covert political activity and transnational organised crime are linked -- and how they ultimately work to the advantage of state and corporate power. The book shows that legitimate government is now routinely accompanied by extra-governmental covert operations. Using a variety of case studies, from the mafia in Italy to programmes for food and reconstruction in Iraq, the contributors illustrate that para-political structures are not 'deviant', but central to the operation of global governments. The creation of this truly parallel world-economy, the source of huge political and economic potential, entices states to undertake new forms of regulation, either through their own intelligence agencies, or through the more shadowy world of criminal cartels.
Government of the Shadows: Parapolitics and Criminal Sovereignty: Eric Wilson, Tim Lindsey: 9780745326238: Amazon.com: Books
Pygar 2 is right when (s)he says that the some people do well creating a product that sometimes employs others. Like Nick Hanuer in his TED talk they have a conscience. I remember one entrepreneur who spoke during the Occupy movement saying that he was part of the 1% and he wanted a much fairer distribution of wealth. These are not the folks I am talking about. They are not the ruling class.
Rich is a relative term. How much some needs to be rewarded more than others is a question we should be asking our selves. A world were everybody is equal and equally rewarded is possible but not necessary. READ Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell. We can make the world in so many different ways. We are an extremely imaginative species. A world where there is not jails, no police, and no leaders has already existed;
War, Peace, and Human Nature by Douglas P. Fry
The Convergence of Evolutionary and Cultural Views

War, Peace, and Human Nature - Hardcover - Douglas P. Fry - Oxford University Press
Talk Nation Radio | Let's Try Democracy
This issue for me is justice. The kind of justice where everyone gets a fair shake and those who need some help get looked after by their community. This will not happen as long as the criminals make the laws.
POST SCRIPT; A example of how a society can try to evolve for the better is talked about here:
Will Cuban Reforms Create More Inequality? - James Early on Reality Asserts Itself
pt3
 
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Great post, Flipper - very interesting references - I'll be looking them up.

Jeff Davis, I am (currently) engaged in writing, publication and education.
 
When you read this remember we are a nation of just 4 million people.

Santa Claus says he is going home emotionally exhausted as poverty-stricken children ask not for toys but basic necessities this Christmas.

Robert Fisher, 74, who has been a Santa at Auckland's Westfield WestCity in Henderson for nine years, said at least half a dozen kids a day asked him for a house because their families were sleeping in cars.

"It's worse this year than what I can remember," he said.

Fisher said some children would ask for a happier family.

"There's nothing I can do. You just try and say ‘what would you like for Christmas and I'll see what I can do'. I give them a couple of chocolates."

Fisher was last week photographed with a 6-week-old baby who had undergone open-heart surgery just two days before.

"The mother wanted to get a photo in case something happened because she needed another [operation]."

He said he arrived home each night emotionally exhausted.

"It can be very emotional and I can be a bit of a sook. But once you put the suit on, you have to be Santa Claus."

The Christmas heartache comes as social services report more families than ever are desperate for basic food and housing. The Child Poverty Report, released this month, found one in six children going without basic necessities such as a bed, meal or doctor's visit.

Children's Commissioner Dr Russell Wills has called for a child poverty plan to be written into law.

He said child poverty had at least doubled by any measure since he was a child, and that as many as 265,000 children lived in poverty, defined as

households with less than 60 per cent of the median income after housing costs. (nation of 4 million).


Thousands of people are expected to eat free Christmas dinners put on at various venues around the country.

About 2500 people will attend the Auckland City Mission's Christmas dinner. Chief executive Diane Robertson said she felt saddened by the increasing number of families asking for help.

The mission had given out 3000 food parcels this December, up from 2400 last year.

Families were not coming for ham, turkey and cakes, she said, but basics such as bread, milk and baked beans.

"There's been changes in the last few years. We knew families were struggling and coming to us in emergencies, but this is chronic. I can see people are so worn down."

Christchurch City Missioner Michael Gorman said up to 100 families each day asked for help with a food parcel in December. "We get people coming into us every weekday saying they are desperate for accommodation."

Families sleeping in cars were stressed because they didn't know where to enrol their children for school next year, he said.

Santa's heart-breaking Christmas wishes | Stuff.co.nz

Merry Xmas.... We are all rich men here on this forum when we look at it.
 
Stonehart, the Part 5 I couldn't find - try as I might, all my searches came up with nothing - so thank you for posting it here. To my mind it's the most provocative - but I may think that because I'm seeing it out of sequence. Anyway, good stuff - and time to change things. It's a global awakening happening, I think. This time, rather than individual cities or single countries, there is a world-wide awareness. We are becoming of one-mind regarding this.

My great fantasy is that people will start to shift their views regarding birth into this world. In the US there is an old saw: 'The world doesn't owe you a living." I think we need to change that. While we may still need to contribute to the commonweal - there is something to be said for having a right to food, water, safety from harm (on all levels), clothing and shelter. It is not right that so many suffer and so many starve while others live in the lap of not merely luxury, but grotesque excess.
 
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