The Day I died (Documentary)

[Polterwurst]

"Perchance to dream. Aye, there's the rub."

As you've brought him up, so to speak, I wonder why Kenneth Brannagh chose reincarnation as a theme for this:

Sure, it makes for a great suspense movie. But he could have stuck to a more conventional murder mystery instead.

 

[Oakenwulf]

And of course, there is my personal experience that with the second of "my own cases" the memories of a very dear deceased person seemed to show up in my sister's child, which after years of thinking about and researching the subject, led me to believe that these memories are not just fragmented information without sense or intent, surviving in some kind of field which is in itself not conscious, but are actually part of a "discarnate consciousness" which seems to be able to choose to be "born into" another body. By some unknown mechanism, the consciousness that shows up in the newborn brain is "reset", at least the memories of former existences are no longer accessible, but for some reason this mechanism partially fails in a minute percentage of births. AFAIK, in nearly all of the cases investigated by Stevenson and his people, the children remember traumatic and/or violent deaths, so this seems to be a main factor why it fails.

Wasn't there a previous show that discussed this? or am I thinking of paramania radio....netherless it was on a show where a guy (forgot his name) discussed talking to a spirit/spirit guide who explained how this worked in the same way as this post. Our selves in the spirit realms are in a different intelligence in the other side, then new decide or chosen by "our time" due to a specific plan to be born in new bodies on this world. example is say myself and two friends on the other side are reborn into this world, I become the father, my one friend comes back as my sister, and the other friend as the mother and this is all because of some plan. Then he goes on to explain death in stating that for example one who would come back and be born into this world then die at birth is also part of that spirits plan in a way. He stated that even at certain events given example of several mass murders were originally agreed upon and planned by all parties. The deaths and events were meant to happen and it was their time to leave this realm. It was a very interesting lecture. On top of this our minds would be reset at birth and these previously agreed plans we would have no memory of.

 

[Polterwurst]

I don't think there was a reincarnation-themed paracast episode ever. And I don't know anything about previously agreed-upon plans. No idea if karma exists, soul groups, soul mates etc., I'm happy to leave that to speculation, probably because it would call for the existence of "unknown forces", a god or supreme spiritual being of some kind. I get suspicious as soon as I hear people talking about spirit guides and information they receive or "channel" from "the other side" or "higher beings". And frankly, the idea of (mass) murders making any kind of sense, even if they were happening for the soul to go through some kind of learning process, is just disturbing and terrible. I think it's this kind of speculation that is keeping many scientists, who might have become interested by the demonstrable facts in these cases, from investigating them further. Do you know if the lecturer could present any evidence for these claims?

 

[Oakenwulf]

I don't think there was a reincarnation-themed paracast episode ever. And I don't know anything about about previously agreed-upon plans. No idea if karma exists, soul groups, soul mates etc., I'm happy to leave that to speculation, probably because it would call for the existence of "unknown forces", a god or supreme spiritual being of some kind. I get suspicious as soon as I hear peaople talking about spirit guides and information they receive or "channel" from "the other side" or "higher beings". And frankly, the idea of (mass) murders making any kind of sense, even if they were happening for the soul to go through some kind of learning process, is just disturbing and terrible. I think it's this kind of speculation that is keeping many scientists, who might have become interested by the demonstrable facts in these cases, from investigating them further. Do you know if the lecturer could present any evidence for these claims?

Yea, I will have to dig that lecture up for you, if its from paramania radio (one of their shows) It will be a while, but yea its a more spiritual lecture and can be taken with a grain of salt but considered, they did state that the plans were of higher intelligence. Yea it was a touchy subject, as for evidence you would have to talk to the lecturer yourself as he received all his information from his spirit guide type entity

 

[Polterwurst]

No pressure, thanks. The very name of the radio show makes me believe I don't really want to listen to it.

 

[Oakenwulf]

I believe its from the fearless ghost hunter show, the shows are all not bad and are legit, you just get some of those subjects and interviewees that come on for example like third moon from the sun guy or third moon from earth well you know........ yeahhhhhh, paramania radio is worth listening to in my opinion, I can support this claim too..., im very picky with paranormal radio/media..very picky ....

 

[Tyger]

So many believe. No one knows.

Global statement. I will agree that many believe - and that is across the board. Belief-assumptions are a function of thought. But that no one 'knows' - another matter. That statement is definitely in the realm of belief. I would say there is as much belief afoot with science as with anything else - since science is our 'religious war' right now.

 

[Tyger]

No pressure, thanks. The very name of the radio show makes me believe I don't really want to listen to it.

There is a saying in German - 'reaching for the door' - are we?

Oakenwulf, much to say about the content of your post. Later this evening. Cheers!

 

[Oakenwulf]

There is a saying in German - 'reaching for the door' - are we?

Oakenwulf, much to say about the content of your post. Later this evening. Cheers!

sounds good - considering I definitely would love others input toward these paranormal shows - probably a whole new topic really,

 

[Tyger]

sounds good - considering I definitely would love others input toward these paranormal shows - probably a whole new topic really,

Intend to comment when time surfaces - events intervene. Always interested in the topic - especially in people's visceral reactions - in the midst of talk of greys and 'nordic' annunaki - I find the reactions to the 'Old Religion' fascinating.

 

[TalkingMeatSuit]

If you're sentient and present in a body once, why is it so hard to think that it can't happen more than once? Your beliefs form your reality - there are people who believe the Holocaust never happened. If you don't think something is possible, you simply won't go looking for the experience or even recognize it if it happens. Having experienced a number of psychic episodes myself, there is no way to measure it with calipers or transcribe it into a research paper notarized by Stephen Hawking as evidence, it just doesn't work like that.

People are afraid of being wrong worse than almost anything. It keeps people on the sidelines where it's easy to be a skeptic rather than trying it themselves. For example, how many people knock oiuja boards but have never tried it? (I don't have any experience on it, so I can't say one way or the other). Perhaps they saw a youtube video of Penn Jillette talking about ideomotor effect and that's good enough for them to shape their world view. While it's hard to argue with the fact that many stories are far out there and hard to believe, it takes a degree of arrogance to tell another person that something didn't happen to them when you weren't even there nor are you educated on the topic in many cases.

I always get a kick out of the way people think medium / psychic phenomenon works. "Why don't you know the winning lottery numbers?" type stuff usually. Psychic doesn't mean "all-knowing". It doesn't mean you have access to an invisible wikipedia with every answer to everything. It doesn't mean you know about the challenges you are going to face in life ahead of time, many of which I personally believe are planned and intentional (the purpose is to make yourself grow, learn, become a better individual). Being the person that passes a message from a non-physical being to a physical one has felt more like "interpreter" to me the handful of times I've experienced it, except the language barrier is substantially higher, and although the senses used do resemble their physical counterparts in a way, they simply do not do it justice. What does a sunset look like to Hellen Keller? Obviously that's not a knock on Ms Keller, she was brilliant and amazing.

This is a debate that can't be won from either side of the table. If there is something more, perhaps we'll have a cup of joe and laugh about it some day. If there isn't, it won't matter anyway.

I particularly enjoyed the Gary Schwartz interview from the old Paracast. If cases like that, the case I posted about in the other thread where the psychiatrist hypnotized the dude who gave his military identification from who he was in WW1, the entire UFO field, the vastness of our universe, and how primitive we still are doesn't give you some sense of wonder, but rather makes you think that you know all things possible and impossible, then I don't know what to say you. I probably wouldn't want to talk to you anyway, and I'd seem like a lunatic to you.

My opinion is that religion has taken many of these considerations off the table for smart people. Shit gets pretty interesting if you can do away with dogma and illogical arcane rituals but still be open to other possibilities.

 

[Randall]

So many believe. No one knows.

Above: One of the few statements of truth we can make, at least to the extent that although it may be possible that some of those who claim to know actually do know, but even they ( along with anyone else ) still cannot be certain based only on personal experiences like OOBEs or NDEs or disjointed memories. The fact of the matter is that definitive evidence of "life after death" still appears to be absent. Every single claim of life after death that I have read about or seen on some documentary ( so many now that it's more than I remember ) relies almost exclusively on the existence of memories that the subject claims is from another life. However such memories, even if true, do not constitute life after death. At best they only constitute some form of memory creation or transfer that match the information we have about what the deceased person might have possessed in his or her memory back when that person was still alive. So such evidence, even if true, is purely circumstantial.

Moreover, the person claiming to be the deceased person also has his or her own unique set of memories, plus a distinct personality, plus an entirely different body. The idea that a few bolt-on memories makes the person who possesses them into someone else who died is complete nonsense. Additionally, the claims about similar bodily markings can also be explained by genetics and/or hoaxing and/or non-disclosed information or coincidence. There are however experiments underway that could give us sufficient reason to believe continuity of consciousness ( or at least the OOBEs and NDEs ) can happen. If those experiments show positive results they will get my attention, otherwise, just like this latest round of discussions over the last few months, and the numerous others I've had dating back decades, it's the same old story repeated over and over and over again backed only by belief in some mythology or religion or mystical or so-called "spiritual" paradigm.

 

[TalkingMeatSuit]

Above: One of the few statements of truth we can make, at least to the extent that although it may be possible that some of those who claim to know actually do know, but even they ( along with anyone else ) still cannot be certain based only on personal experiences like OOBEs or NDEs or disjointed memories. The fact of the matter is that definitive evidence of "life after death" still appears to be absent. Every single claim of life after death that I have read about or seen on some documentary ( so many now that it's more than I remember ) relies almost exclusively on the existence of memories that the subject claims is from another life. However such memories, even if true, do not constitute life after death. At best they only constitute some form of memory creation or transfer that match the information we have about what the deceased person might have possessed in his or her memory back when that person was still alive. So such evidence, even if true, is purely circumstantial.

Moreover, the person claiming to be the deceased person also has his or her own unique set of memories, plus a distinct personality, plus an entirely different body. The idea that a few bolt-on memories makes the person who possesses them into someone else who died is complete nonsense. Additionally, the claims about similar bodily markings can also be explained by genetics and/or hoaxing and/or non-disclosed information or coincidence. There are however experiments underway that could give us sufficient reason to believe continuity of consciousness ( or at least the OOBEs and NDEs ) can happen. If those experiments show positive results they will get my attention, otherwise, just like this latest round of discussions over the last few months, and the numerous others I've had dating back decades, it's the same old story repeated over and over and over again backed only by belief in some mythology or religion or mystical or so-called "spiritual" paradigm.

And that, my friend, is your opinion

 

[Randall]

And that, my friend, is your opinion

Actually there's a combination of facts and one or two opinions. But can you spot difference?

Fact Versus Opinion​

​

 

[starise]

My email box has been inundated lately by this thread and so I came on over to see what the rucus was all about. Interesting discussion.

I still find it interesting that one or two individuals are bent on determining what is and isn't valid to the rest of us.

I don't pretend to be an expert on what happens in any detail after we die other than to say we meet our maker IMO and in what way that plays out exactly is a mystery. I believe we eventually end up in a situation we decide to put ourselves in during this life. I know this view isn't valid to a few here. You'll find out soon enough and maybe a lot sooner than you think. I get my outlook from study of books some of you don't tend to hold as valid either.

I really hope the best for everyone when that time comes. I think most of us know at a deeper level that there is more regardless of what experiences anyone else has had, or how much we personally try to deny it for ourselves. I will admit that this is me going out on a limb because I can't see into anyone else. I can only speak for myself.I know I will continue.

The subject of reincarnation is an interesting one. I once was bent against any possibility of it happening. Now after some more research I am led more to believe that there is a strong possibility that some souls are "recycled". This isn't anything like the way some eastern religions view it though IMO. In my view, coming back a second time isn't guaranteed for everyone. It seems to be allowed under certain conditions in which there are unresolved issues of some kind. This is also a hunch on my part based on what I know as of now.

 

[Randall]

My email box has been inundated lately by this thread and so I came on over to see what the rucus was all about. Interesting discussion. I still find it interesting that one or two individuals are bent on determining what is and isn't valid to the rest of us.

Indeed. Those who insist that statements that aren't mere opinions, are mere opinions are doing exactly that. In fact, unless substantiated, using the phrase "it's your opinion" as counterpoint is in and of itself mere opinion, and as such provides no valid counterpoint. It's also an assessment of a personal position. Therefore those who know this and use it anyway are actually intentionally provoking an emotional defensive reaction ( flaming ).

I don't pretend to be an expert on what happens in any detail after we die other than to say we meet our maker IMO and in what way that plays out exactly is a mystery. I believe we eventually end up in a situation we decide to put ourselves in during this life. I know this view isn't valid to a few here. You'll find out soon enough and maybe a lot sooner than you think. I get my outlook from study of books some of you don't tend to hold as valid either.

I really hope the best for everyone when that time comes. I think most of us know at a deeper level that there is more regardless of what experiences anyone else has had, or how much we personally try to deny it for ourselves. I will admit that this is me going out on a limb because I can't see into anyone else. I can only speak for myself.I know I will continue.

The subject of reincarnation is an interesting one. I once was bent against any possibility of it happening. Now after some more research I am led more to believe that there is a strong possibility that some souls are "recycled". This isn't anything like the way some eastern religions view it though IMO. In my view, coming back a second time isn't guaranteed for everyone. It seems to be allowed under certain conditions in which there are unresolved issues of some kind. This is also a hunch on my part based on what I know as of now.

Why would you believe, "... there is a strong possibility that some souls are 'recycled' ... " ? BTW assuming your statement is true, it's a fact that you believe it's a strong possibility. So that statement isn't merely an opinion. Perhaps to answer the question, we should ask ourselves what evidence there is that "souls" exist in the first place?

 

[starise]

Hi ufology,

Knowing you the way I think I do this is the only scenario that I think would be even remotely acceptable to you.It would go something like this:

It's June of 2027 and in a lab somewhere in an underground bunker in a super secret scientific installation one of the brightest minds and the reason the installation was made has actually managed after years of study to extract and measure souls.

At the time of the first soul extraction and measurement everything was captured on audio and videnly a few select people have seen the video. The first minutes were exhilarating as a soul was successfully planted into someone else who had lost theirs.They knew right away the soul plant had been successful because the soulless individual hated chocolate,in fact, he hated everything, that is when he had a soul. After his soul left he was simply a potato chip eating zombie.

As soon as they took him off of the sheptilectoriphigusmapoonangus machine he was different. In a starry eyed daze he kept mumbling Hershey's, Hershey's ,Hershey's. It was really sad though because Hershey's had long since seen it's demise after the coco crop went bust.He seemed to temporarily settle for something that tasted like chocolate but was really a chicken by product.

After this they could measure souls, tell you how long they were. How old they were.They knew the DNA of a soul. It was a new era,especially for folks with a lot of soul.

 

[Burnt State]

I still find it interesting that one or two individuals are bent on determining what is and isn't valid to the rest of us.

I don't pretend to be an expert on what happens in any detail after we die other than to say we meet our maker IMO and in what way that plays out exactly is a mystery. I believe we eventually end up in a situation we decide to put ourselves in during this life. I know this view isn't valid to a few here. You'll find out soon enough and maybe a lot sooner than you think. I get my outlook from study of books some of you don't tend to hold as valid either.

The most common feature of this forum is the rolling of large heavy mental stones up hills of thought only to have someone push it back down the skeptical hill of opinion and then you go down and push it back up, push back and get into it. Par for the course. I think tone is everything. Absolutism, certainty and other high horses of the apocalypse scream like the second coming all across the history of threads here. It is indicative of something i'm sure.

Expertise seems to abound on this forum; it's just a matter of perspective. Unfortunately some perspectives feel like theirs is the only valid vantage point in the room while others are open to having arachnid vision where multiple simultaneous perspectives exist. Those folks are great at starting conversations by agreeing to disagree, or both. Maybe paradox is a better place to inhabit, so long as you're not advocating any kind of oppression. Meanwhile others are just so elegant at celebrating the mystery. You are the reason why i'm here.

However, since i've invested time here the net impact has been that i am not any more certain than i ever was about UFO's, encounters with strange creatures and otherworldly beings, time slips, synchronicities, certain magical/mental 'powers' or reincarnation. i'm still pretty vague about the whole thing, but somehow know a lot more about the whole thing. That's the other Sisyphean aspect of it all.

The paranormal discourse has always been explosive, invested with emotion - both seen and unseen, and is hard to pin down, even amongst really smart people. It all fits the pattern: same personalities, same investments, same attacks, same paranormal miscommunications. That's what's ultimately disenchanting. That for me defines the general burning malaise of this space and the history of the field. Nothing learned, the same old patterns.

Now, I just stay away from certain conversations i know will be aggravating and try to stay away from those who push too hard. Though that just has to be an acceptable, democratic inevitability. What's sad is how different voices get silenced and whose opinions, no matter how surreal or wonderfully imaginative, go missing because this place is not comfortable for them to speak. Some might not get that - whatever. That's a high price to pay and not a fair exchange when it comes to looking for voices that are different, counter-establishment instead of those, whether knowingly or unknowingly, are entirely authoritarian, sometimes even dictatorial - depending on your perspective of course.

Sometimes it's all just ethnographic.