The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis : Fact and Fallacy

[Creepy Green Light]

In today's news......(remember, nobody's cameras are pointed up - that's why there are no real flying saucer video's/pictures to be found....)

 

[withoutlimits09]

As a thought experiment, I often wonder if Earth is nothing more than a cosmic "ark" of biological diversity, purposely placed in safe part of the galaxy free from others, to preserve what exists. Perhaps "evolution" was just the basic mechanism put into effect create the most abundant types of organisms.

When you watch one of the EARTH 4k Blue Rays that show the Amazon rain forest, the deep sea, etc, it really seems Earth is just a massive container to hold as much biological complexity as possible. Perhaps those who are trying to preserve and collect specimens, also pop in from time to time..

Just a thought.

 

[withoutlimits09]

I have no idea if this is legit, but it can be illustrative of the problems associated with catching this kind of thing on video (and actually it kinda reminds me of the objects that I saw as a kid):

Note how the natural inclination to zoom in for more detail, completely obliterates the viewer's ability to discern accelerations from camera jiggle and how little you can make out of the shape using a typical video camera (or more likely, a smartphone camera). And also note how easy it would be to fake - this video could easily be faked, because all you can make out is a small blur anyway.

It's pretty amazing how much better our eyes work than a modern smartphone camera - our field of view and ability to focus on a tiny point located even miles away, is pretty amazing. Our sighting of a pair of bright objects zigzagging through the sky in complete defiance of inertia, was only impressive because our field of view kept the objects on the horizon within our peripheral view, as we clearly witnessed the objects move in perfect formation at high speed. So to record that kind of sighting, you'd need to record a huge field of view without the typical handheld camera jiggle (I wonder how many megapixels it would take to replicate human vision - a whole lot more than any consumer technology, that's for sure), plus some kind of AI that could identify the anomalous dot in the sky and keep it in focus.

It's a daunting problem, technologically - we're not even close to that level of video capability yet. But I'm sure we'll get there, eventually - maybe once we have gigapixel cameras with rock solid image stabilization and AI that's smart enough to identify an anomaly of interest and stay focused on it as it moves with seemingly impossible agility through the sky, like the Tic-Tac ufo that Cmdrs. Fravor and Slaight witnessed.

If that UFO had a "pilot," he was drunk! There seemed to be no purpose or "intelligence" behind its travel. It behaved very much like an insect...without much purpose. Perhaps the "Mantis" aliens fly their ships like their insect relatives fly around on earth. Now I am not saying the object in the video IS an insect, I am just saying it doesn't seem to be a very thoughtful flight pattern indicative of intelligent control.

 

[Thomas R Morrison]

If that UFO had a "pilot," he was drunk! There seemed to be no purpose or "intelligence" behind its travel. It behaved very much like an insect...without much purpose. Perhaps the "Mantis" aliens fly their ships like their insect relatives fly around on earth. Now I am not saying the object in the video IS an insect, I am just saying it doesn't seem to be a very thoughtful flight pattern indicative of intelligent control.

Haha - well, it looks like it (or "they" - the second half with increased contrast seems to show two objects, one kinda chasing the other) move in a straight line, and then make a sharp vertical turn, and finally dart off on a wiggling trajectory. It's hard to be sure about how much of that last part is the movement of the objects, and how much is wiggling camera motions, because there's nothing in the frame to check for camera movements until the very last bit.

The objects that I saw, zigzagged with acute angle turns without any sign of changing speed, in perfect tight formation, with an overall tendency to move in one direction - it makes no sense to move like that. All I can think is that either they were playing, or, they were showing off for our benefit "betcha can't do this, MFers," lol.

As a thought experiment, I often wonder if Earth is nothing more than a cosmic "ark" of biological diversity, purposely placed in safe part of the galaxy free from others, to preserve what exists. Perhaps "evolution" was just the basic mechanism put into effect create the most abundant types of organisms.

When you watch one of the EARTH 4k Blue Rays that show the Amazon rain forest, the deep sea, etc, it really seems Earth is just a massive container to hold as much biological complexity as possible. Perhaps those who are trying to preserve and collect specimens, also pop in from time to time..

Just a thought.

If that's true, then they must be really miffed that we've triggered the sixth global mass extinction event:

Earth is on its way to the biggest mass extinction since the dinosaurs, scientists warn

 

[withoutlimits09]

Haha - well, it looks like it (or "they" - the second half with increased contrast seems to show two objects, one kinda chasing the other) move in a straight line, and then make a sharp vertical turn, and finally dart off on a wiggling trajectory. It's hard to be sure about how much of that last part is the movement of the objects, and how much is wiggling camera motions, because there's nothing in the frame to check for camera movements until the very last bit.

The objects that I saw, zigzagged with acute angle turns without any sign of changing speed, in perfect tight formation, with an overall tendency to move in one direction - it makes no sense to move like that. All I can think is that either they were playing, or, they were showing off for our benefit "betcha can't do this, MFers," lol.

If they want to show off, there are far better forums than over some random guy's house. I suggest they perform at the half time of this year's Super Bowl! Unfortunately that never seems to happen.

 

[Trajanus]

If they want to show off, there are far better forums than over some random guy's house. I suggest they perform at the half time of this year's Super Bowl! Unfortunately that never seems to happen.

Of course not, because they don't want us to be sure they're real and here. Acting strangely over some "random" guy's house is something many hear about but can't verify and it seems to cast doubt on the ETH.

 

[Thomas R Morrison]

Today I was listening to an old Art Bell interview with Nick Pope, and I was struck by a comment that he made. Nick pointed out that alien technology doesn't seem to be that far ahead of us, because we often track them on radar quite readily. And they do seem to consistently act evasively, so it makes sense that they don't typically seem to want to be observed. Perhaps they're simply not advanced enough to achieve full radar-visual invisibility. Therefore, he reasons, we may be able to come up with countermeasures of some kind to deter their blithe intrusions over our military bases etc.

That triggered a thought that's never occurred to me before. Let's assume that there's a fairly wide spectrum of technological levels of sophistication among myriad civilizations in our galaxy. If a civilization is looking to exploit the resources of another civilization - say, for example, they'd like to conduct a biological survey of mutations in a sentient species like our own. Then they're not going to try that with a civilization that's more advanced than themselves - so all of the higher civilizations are off-limits for that.

They're going to find a less advanced civilization, like ours. And honestly it doesn't get much less advanced than ourselves - we've only had tap water for just over a century. And we've only had the wheel for about 5500 years. A few millennia is a blink of the eye, in evolutionary timescales.

So maybe the races sending probes/craft/ships/whatever to the Earth, are generally only a few centuries or millennia ahead of us technologically, the low-hanging fruit. Significantly more advanced civilizations would've had plenty of opportunities to explore and sample and study civilizations at our level of development for thousands of years. So maybe it's a kind of hierarchy, where the alien civilizations visiting the Earth have their own UFO encounters with civilizations more advanced than their own, and on and on up the ladder - each rung of the ladder exploiting the rung directly below their own.

It's an amusing thought anyway - the Greys going back home, and dealing with their own unexplained UFO sightings =D

 

[Trajanus]

Nick pointed out that alien technology doesn't seem to be that far ahead of us, because we often track them on radar quite readily.

In fact there's much more evidence than that, for relatively primitive ETs.

Let's assume that there's a fairly wide spectrum of technological levels of sophistication among myriad civilizations in our galaxy.

So maybe it's a kind of hierarchy, where the alien civilizations visiting the Earth have their own UFO encounters with civilizations more advanced than their own, and on and on up the ladder - each rung of the ladder exploiting the rung directly below their own.

This is possible, and there does seem to be variation in the technical sophistication of various aliens. On the other hand, consider the view of Stent, who thought progress ultimately comes up against a brick wall, so to speak, and stops.

 

[DROBNJAK]

Today I was listening to an old Art Bell interview with Nick Pope, and I was struck by a comment that he made. Nick pointed out that alien technology doesn't seem to be that far ahead of us, because we often track them on radar quite readily. And they do seem to consistently act evasively, so it makes sense that they don't typically seem to want to be observed. Perhaps they're simply not advanced enough to achieve full radar-visual invisibility. Therefore, he reasons, we may be able to come up with countermeasures of some kind to deter their blithe intrusions over our military bases etc.??

Nick Pope wouldn't have educational background to make that type of assessment. He was low level clerk who had very restricted access to information. If one watches 3 videos with Nick Pope one soon finds that he is practically repeating 3-4 same observations on each show. Nevertheless, he made great contribution to rising general awareness.

I thought same as Pope when I began my research. Oh, its just electric fields and microwaves. But, when one looks into GR and QM one can see that we are very far off behind visitors. Unless we stumble on something accidentally, aliens are hundreds, if not thousands, of years ahead of us.

But than, there is a tantalizing thought, what if there is a blind spot in our own theories? Some kind of oversight everybody is looking at, but not seeing.

UFO spacecraft design had to be optimized for many different needs, mainly for crossing interstellar voids. One would think that stealth is quite low on their priority list, since they have this enormous performance advantage. When it comes to radars, it is important to say that same UFO frequently behaves intermittently as visible and invisible. That is because in different flight modes plasma is created around the craft or is not created. Because plasma perfectly absorbs EM waves, UFOs become invisible and when they don't use plasma they become visible again. Actually during the Cold War there were various projects to envelope aeroplanes in plasma as a kind of stealth.

If reports are taken at face value: they have nearly indestructible materials resistant not just to cannon shells, but small meteorites with far more energy. As well, they can effortlessly turn on telepathy in our own brains, never mind theirs. Their computers consist of 3D lattice made of carbon fibers. They can heal metastasizing cancer within 2-3 days. They routinely insert chips directly into pituitary gland through nose cavity etc.

In fact there's much more evidence than that, for relatively primitive ETs.

I've noticed that as well. In that abduction with hunter in south California, where he spent a night on tree, fighting aliens off, aliens had some clumsy robots that appeared to be worst than our own. It was almost laughable.

That triggered a thought that's never occurred to me before. Let's assume that there's a fairly wide spectrum of technological levels of sophistication among myriad civilizations in our galaxy. If a civilization is looking to exploit the resources of another civilization - say, for example, they'd like to conduct a biological survey of mutations in a sentient species like our own. Then they're not going to try that with a civilization that's more advanced than themselves - so all of the higher civilizations are off-limits for that.

They're going to find a less advanced civilization, like ours. And honestly it doesn't get much less advanced than ourselves - we've only had tap water for just over a century. And we've only had the wheel for about 5500 years. A few millennia is a blink of the eye, in evolutionary timescales.

What you just said is just inevitable emergent behavior in large populations. There is a noticeable power law distribution in frequency of encounters, leading to belief that there is one dominant and most advanced group, followed by myriad medium and smaller groups. It is very noticeable that the largest group is the most disciplined and organized group, while smaller group are more behaving in an opportunistic fashion.

When one thinks about it, we don't have any resources to offer to them, that they don't already have, except for genes. If, among other planets discovered so far, Earth is budging the anti-anthropocentric principle in any respect, it is standing out by its biodiversity. At least 30% of encounters with aliens occur when they are collecting plant samples in agricultural fields or in forests. I don't know much about genetics, but it seems that nature needs millions of years to develop genes and some part of that process can't be done in lab.

If that's true, there is a reason they are here.


But there are two other things, all different groups adhere to non-interference in our affairs and they all themselves want to hide their activity as much as our governments do.

 

[Trajanus]

Unless we stumble on something accidentally, aliens are hundreds, if not thousands, of years ahead of us.

Dunno, given the logarithmic acceleration of progress.

One would think that stealth is quite low on their priority list, since they have this enormous performance advantage.

But they seem to prefer they aren't detected, not just get away.

If reports are taken at face value: they have nearly indestructible materials resistant not just to cannon shells, but small meteorites with far more energy.

Not sure given a few believable crash retrieval cases.

As well, they can effortlessly turn on telepathy in our brains..

But some apparently speak English, others in some strange language.

I've noticed that as well. In that abduction with hunter in south California, where he spent a night on tree, fighting aliens off, aliens had some clumsy robots that appeared to be worst than our own. It was almost laughable.

Yeah Shrum.

When one thinks about it, we don't have any resources to offer to them, that they don't already have, except for genes.

What about a habitable planet--a rarity in the Universe, and probably younger than theirs (to the degree they need a replacement(?)? Genes are fine--if you live on the planet they evolved to become adapted to.

At least 30% of encounters with aliens occur when they are collecting plant samples in agricultural fields or in forests.

Thirty per cent seems high to me.

I don't know much about genetics, but it seems that nature needs millions of years to develop genes and some part of that process can't be done in lab.

If that's true, there is a reason they are here.

Indeed.

But there are two other things, all different groups adhere to non-interference in our affairs and they all themselves want to hide their activity as much as our governments do.

Government obscurantism may just be to avoid panic, especially if their means of coping are still woefully inadequate. But ET secretiveness invites suspicion about their motives...

 

[DROBNJAK]

Its the one from the back of majestic. Streiber insists it was given to him by someone reliable. Ive had a pathologist at a hospital read it and he says, while bizarre its consistent with a real report.

Full reports:

SUBJECT: AUTOPSY REPORT # 1
DATE: 7/14/47
COPY ONE OF THREE

Initial Findings Upon Examination And Autopsy Of The Body Of An Apparent Alien Creature

1. External Appearance

This body was observed to be in a state of significant deterioration. It hadbeen preserved with formaldehyde solution but not otherwise dissected.

The cadaver was 44 inches long with a weight of 27 pounds when the preservative solution had been drained.

The external appearance of this cadaver was of a human embryo with an enlarged cranium. Hands and feet were normal. Fingers and toenails had been had been pared. Fingerprints of a swirl-left pattern were observed and taken. All ten fingers and toes were apparent. There was some vestigial webbing between first and second fingers and toes.

Sexual organs appeared to be those of a male. They were in an embryonic state and revealed no evidence of pubescence.

Ears were partially formed, and showed some evidence of surgical intervention. Folds of skin had been drawn out from the surface of the scalp in an apparent attempt to create the impression of a more fully developed ear than was actuallypresent.

Lips were vestigial and the mouth contained no erupted teeth. The nose was also in an incomplete state of growth and had also received surgical intervention, resulting in what appeared to be a very thin a delicate organ.

Eyes were distinguished by extensive surgical intervention. They were almond-shaped and by far the most prominent facial feature. The eyeballs were not matured and appeared to have been sutured with artificial lenses of an unknown type. Because of their extremely unusual condition, dissection of these eyes was not attempted.

2. Dissection

An incision was made from the thorax to the scrotum. The skin was first extendedfrom the fascia and the fascia was observed to be consistent with the appearance of an immature human male. The fascia were then dissected and the internal organs were observed. The position of the heart was observed to be vertical, as would be consistent with a very early fetus, prior to the fourth month. The organ was prominent and was weighed to be 1/70th of the mass of the body. When the organ was dissected it was found that there was direct communication between the two auricles through the formen ovale. The Eustachian valve was observed to be large. A ductus arteriosus was observed to communicate between the pulmonary artery and the descending aorta. This ductus opened into the descending aorta just below the origin of the left subclavian artery.

Alterations in the structure of the circulatory system suggested that this body had been surgically corrected to detach it from placental dependence in an artificial manner. The stomach was opened and found to be free of any food substances. The cardiac orifice was apparently atrophied, although the deterioration of the corpus made this difficult to determine. It is possible that this individual did not eat.

The liver was prominent and it was clear that the blood of the umbilical vein would traverse it before entering the inferior cava. The umbilical vein itself had been severed of its placental crown and returned to the circulatory system by a means that was beyond the scope of this dissection to establish.

The lungs were not developed. There were lateral pouches on either side of the central diverticulum, open through into the pharynx. The larynx was somewhat cartilaginous and the trachea was developed.

It is probable that this individual did not breathe and more than he ate. The means of sustaining life is unknown, if he was ever alive in any practical sense.

The cranium was dissected and it was found that the skull was formed of exceptionally thin and pliant cartilaginous material, appearing to be bone precursor that had been affected in some manner, making it more than usually thin and delicate. The brain itself was extensively and surprisingly formed. There was an unknown cortex superimposed on the forebrain and extending as far back as the fissure of Ralando.

Because of this extraordinary formation it was decided not to pursue dissection of the brain at this time. The organ was extracted and placed in fluid preservation pending further study.

Overall, this corpus presented the appearance of a human embryo of three to four months duration that had been the subject of considerable alteration and modification, some of it obviously surgical. Other modifications, such as that of the brain, were harder to understand. In addition to the alterations, there was the matter of the size of the body and the relatively mature condition of the epidermis and nails. It would appear that this fetus was separated from its mother and brought to a semi-functional state by artificial means.

3. Conclusion

This is a human fetus that has been subjected to forced maturation without normal gestation. Its degree of functionality while living if it ever was alive is unknown.



=====================
SUBJECT: AUTOPSY REPORT # 2
DATE: 7/14/47
COPY ONE OF THREE

Initial Findings Upon Examination And Autopsy Of The Body Of An Apparent Alien Creature

1. External Appearance

This body was observed to be in a state of profound deterioration. It had notbeen preserved but was delivered in a container of rubberized canvas, to which some of the tissue had adhered. The cadaver was 36 inches long with a weight of 8 pounds. The external appearance of this cadaver was not of a human type.

The skin appeared smooth and a dark bluish-gray in color. There was no clothing on the body. There were no genitals and no was of determining sex, if any. The nose consisted of two slits, the mouth was a small opening that did not appear to be supported by an articulated law, and there were holes in the position of ears. The cranium was round and large in proportion to the body and the eyes were almond-shaped. The eyes were closed and could not be opened without damaging structures, due to condition of decaying tissue.

Arms and wrists were very thin. The hands displayed a three-digit arrangement without thumb. The arms extended to approximately three inches above the knee. The three fingers extended directly from the wrist, with no palm.

2. Dissection

The body was opened from crotch to chin. A green liquid emerged from the incision. The skin was not backed by fascia, and the bone structure appeared to be a cartilaginous substance of light green-blue color.

Internal organs were observed but their function was unclear. The thoracic and peritoneal cavities communicated and there appeared to be no respiratory system and no stomach. The esophagus was vestigial and dissipated before reaching another organ.

There appeared to be two multi-chambered hearts and it was surmised that body fluid could be pumped rapidly. There was an extensive circulatory system that involved three different types of vein. Some material was extracted from one of these systems and suggested possible waste, leading to the notion that waste mayhave been exuded through the skin.

The fluid removed from the body was analyzed under the microscope and found to be a vegetable substance, chlorophyll-based. It is possible that photosynthesis was the means of obtaining energy.

The cranium was dissected and it was observed that a ridge of cartilage separated the brain into two completely isolated components. The brain was severely deteriorated, but appeared to be extensively fissured and divided into numerous lobes. Because of the deterioration the degree of bilateralism of the two halves could not be determined with any accuracy.

This cadaver exuded an unusually foul odor.

3. Conclusion

This is not a cadaver of a kind previously observed by or known to this pathologist. It appears to be a form of creature utilizing elements of both the animal and vegetable.

The second autopsy is very interesting. My research into electrodynamics of UFOs leads to conclusion that UFOs are basically LC circuits, something like capacitor-inductor with possibly some energy storage, like battery. This LC circuit is sloshing large amounts of electromagnetic energy through the hull of the craft, and possibly than the material of the hull is used to help create warp drive, inside of the material's thickness. This conclusion comes from combination of witness testimonies and our knowledge of general relativity. But more about that at some other opportunity.

Now, I forgot where (probably from Daniel Fry's book), but possibly one of contactees reported that the most advanced among alien species live on giant ships. The way they get their their energy is by a number of "gravitational assist" maneuvers, exactly the same way NASA does with satellites that it sends to the outer solar system. Practically, they dash with a ship towards a star, harvest gravitational and electromagnetic energy and than they slingshot themselves towards the next star and so on.

As well, apart from very few very tiny number of cases, no rocket plumes were observed coming out of the most of UFOs.

Now, the above conjectures mean that aboard the UFO electrical energy is abundant, and used both for propulsion and for running equipment.

Electrical energy is extremely easy to convert into light, we know that. Quoting the conclusion of the second autopsy: "... It appears to be a form of creature utilizing elements of both the animal and vegetable.". It makes perfect sense that these aliens evolved themselves to basically feed on a light, because their spaceships would be able to produce plenty. Natural photosynthesis is relatively inefficient, but artificial one was replicated in a lab and improved upon natural 200-400%. So with lots of light and improved photosynthesis they would be able to supply themselves with plenty of energy for their everyday life.

If a species had decided to move off planets and live on ships, that it makes perfect sense for them to evolve to be half-animal half-plant species. They would need to carry no food and they would directly produce energy for their body from lighting on the ships.

But, as well, that would mean that they are at least 1,000,000 years ahead of us ;-(

Just my 2¢ worth.

 

[Constance]

As a thought experiment, I often wonder if Earth is nothing more than a cosmic "ark" of biological diversity, purposely placed in safe part of the galaxy free from others, to preserve what exists. Perhaps "evolution" was just the basic mechanism put into effect create the most abundant types of organisms.

When you watch one of the EARTH 4k Blue Rays that show the Amazon rain forest, the deep sea, etc, it really seems Earth is just a massive container to hold as much biological complexity as possible. Perhaps those who are trying to preserve and collect specimens, also pop in from time to time..

Just a thought.

Excellent idea, @withoutlimits09. That would also explain the motivations and intentions behind the last seven decades of ufo intrusions over SAC missile bases and nuclear weapons dumps.

 

[Constance]

Also want to repost the above informative post by @DROBNJAK :

The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis : Fact and Fallacy

 

[DROBNJAK]

Excellent idea, @withoutlimits09. That would also explain the motivations and intentions behind the last seven decades of ufo intrusions over SAC missile bases and nuclear weapons dumps.

Yeah, I read somewhere, that one physicist, who believed in UFOs, said that aliens behaved as Zoo Keepers. They are just keeping an eye on things, but not interfering.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Excellent idea, @withoutlimits09. That would also explain the motivations and intentions behind the last seven decades of ufo intrusions over SAC missile bases and nuclear weapons dumps.

I used to play Cosmic Ark on my Atari 2600 in the 80's

 

[Burnt State]

Yeah, I read somewhere, that one physicist, who believed in UFOs, said that aliens behaved as Zoo Keepers. They are just keeping an eye on things, but not interfering.

It's a persistent theme in ufology....that human beings have no birthright of their own, always someone else's object instead of our own subject. As a species we seem to enjoy ideas of submission and subjugation to the sky gods, the prison minders, our eden keepers. And we are such precious things, surrounded by a rare garden, but with no real ultimate sense of self determination because we have to worry about what big daddy god alien has to say about how much free will we actually get to have while on our little cosmic ark being kept safe just like we need to be kept safe...

....well that is until big daddy god alien needs to experiment on us in his super advanced abundant energy machines that house a few medieval torture rooms just for us. My Lord has prepared a room for me in his house and he is my rod and my comfort.

It seems we can not escape the same old story can we? Maybe that was scripted into our dna by our creators as well.

 

[DROBNJAK]

I was reading this article just a minute ago and it saddened me greatly. I should say subject is directly related to this thread:

A Researcher Got Paid $300,000 to Resign After He Said Shooting Wolves Is Bad

In short, an academic was fired from Washington State University because his research discovered that killing wolves is bad for ecosystem overall. Meaning, its not even good for ranchers. But still, ranchers pay out of a pocket for each lost cattle, so they want to kill wolves, and they didn't like his science no matter what, so they put a pressure on congressmen and congressmen put a pressure on university administrators and got researcher fired. It is so sad to learn that science was defeated when confronted with commerce and politics.

Now, comparing to UFOs research, ranchers vs. researchers is 100 times more benign. Practically, we can be coming up with rock solid research, testimonials and physical evidence till the end of the time and nobody will ever accept anything. Just when people don't want to believe, than evidence and reason don't matter.

 

[DROBNJAK]

Yeah, politics overarching science, is something of a recent big discovery for myself. I would never understand that somebody in a position of responsibility would turn back on reason as a basis of decision making.

Its a bit of a rant, but if I didn't enter into ufology I would never understood how much people mistrust each other and how they refuse to see evidence even when is it in plain sight.

Ufology is like that old French fable "King's invisible clothes". Ufologists keep on bringing some clothes to the King to put them on, because he's naked in public, but he keeps on refusing them because he insists that he is already dressed.

Hundreds of soil samples, human implants, radar traces, electromagnetic measurements, magnetic anomalies, inundations in soil, engine malfunctions, photos, videos, crop circles, medieval history records, scientific predictions by witnesses are all of cause hoaxes done by us ufologists who are just hell bent attention seekers.

But in ufology, we keep on bringing and bringing proofs, and skeptics tell us "it's just a swamp gas"

I was educated as an engineer, so for me it was: experiment & measure ... do the maths ... make conclusions. And its not just us techies who do it that way, business works on the same principle, its "tell me the story", and "show me the results" and only than "here is my money". So its really confusing trying to have conversation based on 'free will', because it is just enough to simply ignore evidence, not to mention reason, to impose an angle of view. Basically in a 'free will' argument uninformed ignorance gives one a huge advantage, because he/she can always fall back on 'common sense', while 'common sense' was our intellectual foundation back when we were in a stone age.

 

[DROBNJAK]

Today I was listening to an old Art Bell interview with Nick Pope, and I was struck by a comment that he made. Nick pointed out that alien technology doesn't seem to be that far ahead of us, because we often track them on radar quite readily. And they do seem to consistently act evasively, so it makes sense that they don't typically seem to want to be observed. Perhaps they're simply not advanced enough to achieve full radar-visual invisibility. Therefore, he reasons, we may be able to come up with countermeasures of some kind to deter their blithe intrusions over our military bases etc.

This is mostly design requirements question. For example, in 100 years of their existence our aeroplanes were only rarely made bullet proof, or radar invisible, because simply they already can use their speed to their advantage.

Primary design constraint for UFO spacecraft, besides artificial gravity, would be ability to cross voids between the stars. Comparatively speaking, radar invisibility, would be aliens' least worry. In outer space there is approximately one proton per cubic meter (10 cube feet). If spacecraft is moving at a speed of light its practically being sandblasted by all these protons hitting the craft with a kinetic energy produced by protons' near light speed. Its exactly the same as being inside a pipe in Large Hadron Collider accelerator, only that pipe would be some 100 times bigger and it would had micro meteorites added to the mix.

As we concluded so far from witness observations, electrodynamics and general relativity, a side effect of their propulsion is production of large quantities of EM energy and plasma. That plasma sometimes absorbs longer radar wavelengths. But plasma is propulsion side effect and it completely depends on changes in the internal engine operating modes. Yes, in testimonies of witnesses who had been close to UFOs it constantly comes out switching of propulsion from one mode to another. It is usually one of these: first blinding lights with no object visible (like looking direct at a Sun), than object enveloped in transparent plasma (mostly orange in color), than metallic object with no plasma, as well as clicks, bangs, high pitch turbine sounds, or "old washing machine" rambling sounds etc.

Actually there is a sound of UFO "turbine" (or whatever it was) which traffic controller, in Australian Frederick Valentich case, unintentionally recorded attached bellow.

Since these spacecraft have the speed and high-g advantage (many times they been consistently clocked up to 15 Mach, back in 50's) they wouldn't worry for safety, as much as they might worry about not being seen.

That triggered a thought that's never occurred to me before. Let's assume that there's a fairly wide spectrum of technological levels of sophistication among myriad civilizations in our galaxy. If a civilization is looking to exploit the resources of another civilization - say, for example, they'd like to conduct a biological survey of mutations in a sentient species like our own. Then they're not going to try that with a civilization that's more advanced than themselves - so all of the higher civilizations are off-limits for that.

They're going to find a less advanced civilization, like ours. And honestly it doesn't get much less advanced than ourselves - we've only had tap water for just over a century. And we've only had the wheel for about 5500 years. A few millennia is a blink of the eye, in evolutionary timescales.

I would completely agree with this. Once we agreed that aliens are here ;-), there is no reason why we shouldn't apply common sense to predict their behavior. Common sense is nothing more than layman's interpretation of physics law of energy conservation, and physics rules it all (with maths approval).

Like for example their 'zoo keeper' attitude is completely explainable. Why should they bother with us? They most likely sent a tiny crew, that traveled few months and will be here just for just few days to do some science and collect some samples, human or otherwise ;-). That puts minimal strain on their resources. Even if they are hundreds of years ahead of us, these interstellar trips must still cost them a large percentage of their GDP, as they cost us. So it's imperative to stay focused and do the job quickly and efficiently. If one trend in stories rings trues, is that aliens always work in teams and are very disciplined. Not unlike Apollo crews.

If they wanted to change our culture and behavior, that would require major war. And there must be thousands of planets like Earth that they want to check out. It might sound cruel, but when put in a perspective, why start a war if all that aliens want is few kidneys from some unfortunate abductees.

So maybe the races sending probes/craft/ships/whatever to the Earth, are generally only a few centuries or millennia ahead of us technologically, the low-hanging fruit. Significantly more advanced civilizations would've had plenty of opportunities to explore and sample and study civilizations at our level of development for thousands of years. So maybe it's a kind of hierarchy, where the alien civilizations visiting the Earth have their own UFO encounters with civilizations more advanced than their own, and on and on up the ladder - each rung of the ladder exploiting the rung directly below their own.

Yeah, that is a big question: how far ahead of us are they? Is it hundred years or tens of thousands. If our scientist are completely denying even a theoretical possibility that aliens can cross voids between the stars than aliens must be thousands of years ahead of us, despite exponential growth in our technology over the last 300 years. In other words, making an UFO is not going to happen even in a lifetime of our children.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Agree with your comments and it's ability to interact at will . Hence , open to the possibilty of ETH as other types phenomena.