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The most convincing case of an Identified Alien Craft (IAC) is?

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The Donald Shrum story from 1964.

This one is just too weird, both for the use of robots who spew out the sleeping gas and the absolute persistence of the aliens trying to get the human out of the tree. I find this one a lot less credible than Pascagoula, mostly because the battle goes on till dawn with him perched in a tree shooting arrows at robots. Why not shoot the aliens instead? There's also the whole follow up return trip where the ground around the tree appeared to be cleaned and free of evidence courtesy of a three letter agency was it? Hmmmmmm....

I just feel that if you are able to navigate your way to earth then surely you can get a human out of a tree pretty easily, no? Then again if you've ever tried to get a cat out of a tree you know these things are not easy. Maybe these are very comparable tasks? This midnight battle of the species has got a weak plausibility factor to it but a lot of exceptional, original detail.
 
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No kidding, eh? To be honest, unlike Burroughs who goes to Streiber's cottage to 'make contact', my tendency is always to run like hell a the first sight of aliens of any sort.

The cases with robots that make appearances every now and then are always the oddest of the bunch. On recent Radio Misterioso with RPJ they discuss the Russian robot UFO school children story where the fake ummo image appears.
 
speaking of robots;

flatwoods.jpg
 
Greer goes on to talk about biophobia and it may well be that we have some kind of repulsion to our own skins - the term "meat suit" is an almost pornographic denigration of the human body but I think it's the way many of us imagine ourselves...
I think this is a great point. And it's not just the Kurzweilians that are transhumanists, but the Christians, Buddists, Islamists, etc., psychedelic McKennites, and spiritualists as well. The general idea seems to be that the human "soul" is trapped in the Meat Suit biding its time until it is set free into the real, hyper reality beyond.

Call me gloomy, but I think the species peaked long ago and is in decline. Our fascination with technology and our assumption that we are "advancing" the human condition rather than mucking it all up, says absolutely nothing about the "static condition" of our own biological evolution. Biologically and behaviorally we have not advanced one iota since the beginnings of recorded history. In fact, it can be argued we have degenerated biologically in a wholesale fashion through our recorded history.
Absolutely. I would guess the "devolution" began right about the time man began "working smarter, not harder." And by that I mean began using fire, clothes, tools, and other technology. The devolution really picked up steam when we began manipulating the landscape on a large scale and became sedentary due to farming and agriculture. Not only did this new diet begin to wreak havoc on our physiology, but the new way of life - sedentary, property ownership (houses, animals, food, and, yes, other people), materialism, skill specialization, and free time - began to wreak havoc with our psychology.

With all this free time on our hands, and no longer having to worry about getting eaten by a tiger or where our next meal was coming from every second of the day, we began to wonder about the meaning of life. And because we gained a new understanding of time due to the passing down of property and the long term occupation of settlements, we began to wonder from whence we came.

As far as our nature, I don't think we are qualitatively different from the other animals. I've heard stories of wolves eating the hind quarters of living cattle and then leaving them to die, killer whales tossing penquins and seals around like toys as the eat them, cats torturing and maiming mice and chipmunks and then leaving them to die, and tigers that kill more prey than the can eat, viruses wreak havoc and misery on the animal kingdom, and animals exploit the Earth in other ways as well.

Typically, what happens is that nature has a way of balancing itself out, with one organism benefitting from and nullifying the otherwise destructive nature of another. However, with humans, because of our use of "artificial" technology and the sheer size of our operations, nature is unable to nullify our exploitive nature.

And this, perhaps, is when humans began to think of themselves - and our meat suits and "animal nature" - as evil. Concepts like atonement, sin, and karma entered the culture.
 
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This is an extremely confusing thread that really doesn't state anything. I am attempting to gain contextual entrance here but there is not much to latch on to. Just safe talk of what might be. I realize no one knows for certain, but I am honestly interested.

***Lets get real for a moment: There is no such thing as a substantiated "alien craft" or an identified alien craft.***

Pcarr, Burnt State, trainedobserver, what do you think UFOs are apart from mysterious lights or objects in the sky?


Agree with Jeff here

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Phobos 2 is unique in we have a object photographed heading to the spacecraft. And the craft was destroyed

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Phobos 2 is unique in we have a object photographed heading to the spacecraft. And the craft was destroyed

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I'm not at all persuaded that that's what it is. Remember, what you see in an imager is a 2 dimensional object that represents the states of pixels on a focal plane. Given sufficient illumination, the image to some extent represents what is in the field of view, but is not perfect. If it had been imaged moving across the FOV, that would be different.
 
Agree with Jeff here

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Apart from the obvious majority of cases that are either easily identified or insufficiently reported, there is a residue of true unknowns. That is what they are - unknown. I very much doubt that they all admit a single class of explanation.

As to the extraterrestrial hypothesis, I think it is a strawman - the negative definition of ET is not very helpful, and is really no different in principle from ultraterrestrials, cryptoterrestrials, or interdimensionals. Best to learn and discover patterns with minimal biases and set aside theorizing drawn from pop culture.
 
I think this is a great point. And it's not just the Kurzweilians that are transhumanists, but the Christians, Buddists, Islamists, etc., psychedelic McKennites, and spiritualists as well. The general idea seems to be that the human "soul" is trapped in the Meat Suit biding its time until it is set free into the real, hyper reality beyond.


Absolutely. I would guess the "devolution" began right about the time man began "working smarter, not harder." And by that I mean began using fire, clothes, tools, and other technology. The devolution really picked up steam when we began manipulating the landscape on a large scale and became sedentary due to farming and agriculture. Not only did this new diet begin to wreak havoc on our physiology, but the new way of life - sedentary, property ownership (houses, animals, food, and, yes, other people), materialism, skill specialization, and free time - began to wreak havoc with our psychology.

With all this free time on our hands, and no longer having to worry about getting eaten by a tiger or where our next meal was coming from every second of the day, we began to wonder about the meaning of life. And because we gained a new understanding of time due to the passing down of property and the long term occupation of settlements, we began to wonder from whence we came.

Noble Savage?

See Steven Pinker's "The Blank Slate" for a round debunking.
 
Apart from the obvious majority of cases that are either easily identified or insufficiently reported, there is a residue of true unknowns. That is what they are - unknown. I very much doubt that they all admit a single class of explanation.

As to the extraterrestrial hypothesis, I think it is a strawman - the negative definition of ET is not very helpful, and is really no different in principle from ultraterrestrials, cryptoterrestrials, or interdimensionals. Best to learn and discover patterns with minimal biases and set aside theorizing drawn from pop culture.

Goodby folk tales? Never! Far too engrained in the human condition. We live on telling stories...what do you suppose that means? Collective unconsciousness food?

The bottom line is that UFO phenomena represent an aspect of reality that we have yet to understand.

I want you to do me a favor. Read this recent report from Roger Marsh. Tell me what you think these two people saw. Or feel free to present a theory or hypothesis that might explain and define such a mutual hallucination as the one reported here. Florida witness recalls 'being' watching from hovering UFO - National ufo | Examiner.com

The real issue here is that "something" *is* happening and has been since the beginning of recorded history. It's very well documented in every country on the planet throughout history.

Is it really a strawman to think/imagine that whether we are dealing with hidden denizens from our own environment, or ET, that we may just not be the be all/end all at the top of the food chain that we imagine ourselves to be?
 
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I want you to do me a favor. Read this recent report from Roger Marsh. Tell me what you think these two people saw. Or feel free to present a theory or hypothesis that might explain and define such a mutual hallucination as the one reported here. Florida witness recalls 'being' watching from hovering UFO - National ufo | Examiner.com

The real issue here is that "something" *is* happening and has been since the beginning of recorded history. It's very well documented in every country on the planet throughout history.

My evaluation of that case from the report without an investigation: unknown. You don't know what it was either. Now, when we investigate these things, we often find that the whole thing evaporates into thin air, but not every time. There have been other reports of windowed craft with "beings" looking out of the windows. There have also been reports of weird clouds before.

I would hope Florida MUFON would send a competent FI to talk to these folks, but I am not optimistic.

I agree that something is happening, and it may be more than one something, but again, theorizing is premature. Narratives are likely to be wildly wrong. The answer to what those somethings are might not be as woo woo as some people would like.
 
My evaluation of that case from the report without an investigation: unknown. You don't know what it was either. Now, when we investigate these things, we often find that the whole thing evaporates into thin air, but not every time. There have been other reports of windowed craft with "beings" looking out of the windows. There have also been reports of weird clouds before.

I would hope Florida MUFON would send a competent FI to talk to these folks, but I am not optimistic.

I agree that something is happening, and it may be more than one something, but again, theorizing is premature. Narratives are likely to be wildly wrong. The answer to what those somethings are might not be as woo woo as some people would like.

I agree, I have no clue.

But I also don't find the need to dismiss the obvious. They saw something and that something was a shared experience. No evaporation involved.

But what is woo woo exactly apart from what we would have considered Einstein's theory of relativity and special relativity just 100 years prior to it being reviewed and accepted and worked with in a myriad of situations?

It all serves to remind me of that quote from Arthur C. Clarke about that which is indistinguishable from magic, or woo woo.

There is nothing monumental within science that gets overturned without as much first be considered woo woo. Simple fact.

The consensus of the ego is that which predicates science, who can deny it?
 
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