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The Official Paracast Political Thread! — Part Four

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I foresee innumerable orange Trump piñatas in Donald’s future.

I suppose that's the art of the deal.

Update:

WH denies report that Trump threatened Mexican president over 'bad hombres'

At some point if correct there should be a retraction from the AP

Either way ..., I predict mucho Trump piñatas.

Update:

Some underling at AP screwed up as this is what Trump said in reference to drug cartels:

"According to an excerpt of the transcript of the call with Peña Nieto provided to CNN, Trump said, "You have some pretty tough hombres in Mexico that you may need help with. We are willing to help with that big-league, but they have be knocked out and you have not done a good job knocking them out.""

And who is going to pay for the U.S. to go down into Mexico and fight a protracted war against well-equipped gangsters?
 
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Out of interest how much air time is the situation with Australia and the refugee deal getting ?

The deal to take up to 1,250 refugees has become a flashpoint in diplomatic relations between Australia and the US, with Government sources confirming Mr Trump blasted Mr Turnbull during a weekend phone call.
The President reportedly described the deal as the "worst ever" while speaking with Mr Turnbull on Sunday morning, accusing the Prime Minister of wanting to export "the next Boston bombers".

Donald Trump: Joe Hockey holds talks with US officials after President questions Australia refugee deal

I have to agree with the POTUS, its a crappy deal. WE don't want them why should the US be saddled with them.

I'm disappointed our Prime Minister is forcing this deal on the US. Friends don't dump their garbage on other peoples lawns, And especially not on the lawns of such good friends as we have traditionally been with the US.
 
Did somebody just yank someone's chain? If so, who done it?

Trump Embraces Pillars of Obama’s Foreign Policy

LINK:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/02/...2&nl=breaking-news&nlid=54852892&ref=cta&_r=0
TEXT: President Trump, after promising a radical break with the foreign policy of Barack Obama, is embracing some key pillars of the former administration’s strategy, including warning Israel to curb construction of settlements, demanding that Russia withdraw from Crimea and threatening Iran with sanctions for ballistic missile tests.

In the most startling shift, the White House issued an unexpected statement appealing to the Israeli government not to expand the construction of Jewish settlements beyond their current borders in East Jerusalem and the West Bank. Such expansion, it said, “may not be helpful in achieving” the goal of peace.

At the United Nations, Ambassador Nikki R. Haley declared that the United States would not lift sanctions against Russia until it stopped destabilizing Ukraine and pulled troops out of Crimea.

On Iran, the administration is preparing economic sanctions similar to those the Obama administration imposed just over a year ago. The White House has also shown no indication that it plans to rip up Mr. Obama’s landmark nuclear deal, despite Mr. Trump’s withering criticism of it during the presidential campaign.

New administrations often fail to change the foreign policies of their predecessors as radically as they promised, in large part because statecraft is so different from campaigning. And of course, today’s positions could shift over time — and there is no doubt the Trump administration has staked out new ground on trade and immigration, upending relations with Mexico and large parts of the Muslim world in the process.

But the administration’s reversals were particularly stark because they came after days of tempestuous phone calls between Mr. Trump and foreign leaders, in which he gleefully challenged diplomatic orthodoxy and appeared to jeopardize one relationship after another.

Mr. Trump, for example, made warmer relations with Russia the centerpiece of his foreign policy during the campaign, and European leaders had been steeling for him to lift the sanctions that they and Mr. Obama imposed on President Vladimir V. Putin after he annexed Crimea. But on Thursday, Mr. Trump’s United Nations ambassador, Ms. Haley, sounded a lot like her predecessor, Samantha Power.

“We do want to better our relations with Russia,” Ms. Haley said in her first remarks to an open session of the United Nations Security Council. “However, the dire situation in eastern Ukraine is one that demands clear and strong condemnation of Russian actions.”

Similarly, Mr. Trump presented himself during the campaign as a stalwart supporter of Israel and sharply criticized the Obama administration for allowing the passage of a Security Council resolutionin December that condemned Israel for its expansion of settlements.

“While we don’t believe the existence of settlements is an impediment to peace,” the White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, said in a statement, “the construction of new settlements or the expansion of existing settlements beyond their current borders may not be helpful in achieving that goal.”

The White House noted that the president “has not taken an official position on settlement activity.” It said Mr. Trump would discuss the issue with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel when they meet Feb. 15, in effect telling Mr. Netanyahu to wait until then. Emboldened by Mr. Trump’s support, Israel had announced more than 5,000 new homes in the West Bank since his inauguration.

Mr. Trump shifted his policy after he met briefly with King Abdullah II of Jordan on the sidelines of the National Prayer Breakfast — an encounter that put the king, one of the most respected leaders of the Arab world, ahead of Mr. Netanyahu in seeing the new president. Jordan, with its large Palestinian population, has been steadfastly critical of settlements.

The administration’s abrupt turnaround also coincided with Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson’s first day at the State Department and the arrival of Defense Secretary Jim Mattis in South Korea on his first official trip. Both men are viewed as potentially capable of exerting a moderating influence on the president and his cadre of White House advisers, though it was unclear how much they had to do with the shifts.

With Iran, Mr. Trump has indisputably taken a harder line than his predecessor. While the Obama administration often looked for ways to avoid confrontation with Iran in its last year, Mr. Trump seems equally eager to challenge what he has said is an Iranian expansion across the region, especially in Iraq and Yemen.

In an early morning Twitter post on Thursday, Mr. Trump was bombastic on Iran.

“Iran has been formally PUT ON NOTICE for firing a ballistic missile,” he wrote. “Should have been thankful for the terrible deal the U.S. made with them!” In a second post, he said wrongly, “Iran was on its last legs and ready to collapse until the U.S. came along and gave it a life-line in the form of the Iran Deal: $150 billion.”

Still, the administration has been careful not to specify what the national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, meant when he said on Wednesday that Iran had been put “on notice” for its missile test and for its arming and training of the Houthi rebels in Yemen.

The new sanctions could be announced as soon as Friday. But most experts have said they will have little practical effect, because the companies that supply missile parts rarely have direct business with the United States, and allies have usually been reluctant to reimpose sanctions after many were lifted as part of the 2015 nuclear accord.

Ali Akbar Velayati, an adviser to Iran’s supreme leader, replied, “This is not the first time that an inexperienced person has threatened Iran,” according to the semiofficial Fars news agency. “The American government will understand that threatening Iran is useless.”

Some analysts said they worried that the administration did not have tools, short of military action, to back up its warning.

“Whether the Trump administration intended it or not, they have created their own red line,” said Aaron David Miller, a senior fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. “When Iran tests again, the administration will have no choice but to put up or shut up.”

Mr. Netanyahu will cheer Mr. Trump’s tough tone with Iran. But the American statement on settlements may force him to change course on a delicate domestic issue. His coalition government seemed to take Mr. Trump’s inauguration as a starting gun in a race to increase its construction in occupied territory.

After Mr. Trump was sworn in, the Israeli government announced that it would authorize another 2,500 homes in areas already settled in the West Bank, and then followed that this week with an announcement of 3,000 more. On Wednesday, Mr. Netanyahu took it a step further, vowing to build the first new settlement in the West Bank in many years.

For Mr. Netanyahu, the settlement spree reflects a sense of liberation after years of constraints from Washington, especially under Mr. Obama, who, like other presidents, viewed settlement construction as harmful to the chances of negotiating a final peace settlement. It is also an effort to deflect criticism from Israel’s political right for Mr. Netanyahu’s compliance with a court order to force several dozen families out of the illegal West Bank outpost of Amona.

Mr. Trump had also promised to move the American Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. But in recent weeks, the White House slowed down the move, in part out of concern that it would cause a violent response.

The policy shifts came after a turbulent week in which Mr. Trump also clashed with the leaders of Australia and Mexico over one of the most fraught issues of his new presidency: immigration. He defended the tense exchanges as an overdue display of toughness by a United States that has been exploited “by every nation in the world, virtually.”

“They’re tough; we have to be tough. It’s time we’re going to be a little tough, folks,” he said at the prayer breakfast Thursday. “It’s not going to happen anymore.”

Yet later in the day, the White House felt obliged to put a more diplomatic gloss on events. Mr. Spicer said Mr. Trump’s call with Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull of Australia had been “very cordial,” even if Mr. Trump bitterly opposed an agreement negotiated by the Obama administration for the United States to accept the transfer of 1,250 refugees from an Australian detention camp.

A senior administration official disputed a report that Mr. Trump had threatened to send troops to Mexico to deal with its “bad hombres.” The official said that the conversation with President Enrique Peña Nieto had been “actually very friendly,” and that Mr. Trump had been speaking in jest.
 
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Has an adult just entered the room.....?

Petraeus Warns That Divisive Actions on Muslims Strengthen Extremists

The former general appeared to undercut President Trump's early national security moves.
LINK: David Petraeus just dropped a truth bomb on the Trump administration
TEXT Excerpted: President Donald Trump has faced criticism from across the political spectrum after signing an executive order last Friday restricting travel from seven majority-Muslim countries. On Wednesday, one of Trump's favorite military minds appeared to add his voice to the public condemnation.

General David Petraeus, a finalist for secretary of state in the Trump administration despite his disgraced exit from the CIA, told the House Armed Services Committee that broad-brush statements from Trump and others in his administration about Islam and Muslims complicate the fight against groups like ISIS.

"We must also remember that Islamic extremists want to portray this fight as a clash of civilizations, with America at war against Islam," Petraeus said at a hearing on national security threats and challenges. "We must not let them do that. Indeed, we must be very sensitive to actions that might give them ammunition in such an effort."

[...]

At Wednesday's hearing, Petraeus also pushed back on Trump's suggestions that NATO alliances might be weakened and Russian aggression tolerated. Trump has called NATO "obsolete" and has worried leaders across the world with his seemingly soft stance on Russia.

"Americans should not take the current international order for granted," the retired general said. "It did not will itself into existence. We created it. Likewise, it is not naturally self-sustaining. We have sustained it. If we stop doing so it will fray and eventually collapse. This is precisely what some of our adversaries seek to encourage.”

Petraeus told the committee that "conventional aggression" may get US adversaries like Russia "a bit of land on its periphery," but the real fight is more fundamental. "The real center of gravity is the political will of the major democratic powers to defend Euro-Atlantic institutions like NATO and the [European Union]," Petraeus said. "That is why Russia is working tenaciously to sow doubt in the legitimacy of these institutions and our entire democratic way of life."
 
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It may be a crappy deal, but Trump clearly has no idea how to deal with diplomatic issues, or how to deal with people who are government officials.

It almost seems that he is trying, by dint of his outrageous behavior, to find a way to get out from under this albatross.

So:

Howard Stern: Trump wants to be loved, presidency will be 'detrimental' to his mental health

Australia is being no less hard line about these people though. The rule is if you try and get here as an illegal refugee you will NEVER set foot in Australia for as long as you live. That's why these refugees are locked up on Manus island. And even if they go to the US or New Zealand or Germany and get citizenship our laws are such that they cant even come here on vacation. Try and sneak in the back door, and you don't get to pet a Koala period.

We have the same placard waving liberals insisting refugees welcome, But the UNHCR lists 65 million refugees as at 2017.

We have a problem with ME migrants/refugees here they don't want to work.

MIDDLE Eastern migrants are piling on to the dole queue — with a 33 per cent jobless rate during their first five years in Australia.

The Daily Telegraph can reveal the unemployment rate among recent immigrants from the Middle East has doubled in a decade, with one-in-three out of work.
Asian and European immigrants have an even lower jobless rate than Australian-born workers, after living here five to nine years.

But among Middle Eastern jobseekers, the unemployment rate is an alarming 17.5 per cent.

This compares to 3.6 per cent for southeast Asian migrants, and 1.9 per cent for those from southern and eastern Europe.

Australian National University economist Bob Gregory said most Middle Eastern migrants were refugees, and English language skills were “crucial’’ to finding work.

“Refugees have very high unemployment and this lasts for a very long time,’’ Emeritus Professor Gregory said.

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

The Kuwaiti foreign minister says the same.

“Kuwait and other oil-rich Muslim countries are too valuable to accept low-class Muslim refugees who we will have to support because they don’t want to work.

Kuwaiti says no to refugees

Our population is 25 million, we sure as hell cant take 65 million refugees who think social welfare is the way to make a living.

So this is indeed a crappy deal, we dont want them. The US doesnt want them. They dont want to go to the US anyway because you dont have the social welfare we do. And the west cant possibly absorb the 65 million refugees we have without bankrupting the host nations.

However, as the Washington Post reports, wealthy Gulf Arab nations like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and others have taken in precisely zero Syrian refugees.

While it refuses to take in any more refugees, Saudi Arabia has offered to build 200 mosques for the 500,000 migrants a year expected to pour into Germany.

Saudi Arabia Has 100,000 Empty Tents With AC, But Police Won’t Let In a Single Refugee

I'm just glad its not my job to sort out this mess.
 
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I'm just glad its not my job to sort out this mess.

Yet not knowing how to 'sort out this mess' doesn't restrain you from propagating prejudice and parroting Trumpian immoral and unethical indifference to the impossible situations in which vast numbers of people in the Middle East are forced to flee violence and persecution in their home lands. Maybe we need to take some time here to recall which world powers have colluded in colonializing the oil-rich Middle East since before WWII, exploiting the resources of these countries, manipulating their local economies for our profit and the profit of their princes and land owners, and seeding the inevitable revolutions that have led in our time to terrorist ideologies and activities directed against us by a group of people there who remember their history and have nothing left to lose. We created the conditions under which the mass of ordinary, nonviolent, people in the ME have had to live for nearly a century, and the conditions that they have to flee today. Do you really think we have no obligations to provide them with refuge in our own safer parts of the world? I don't understand how you can think this way.
 
It looks as though Trump, Bannon, & Sessions prefer an exclusively white membership into their new White House & country.

Ben Carlson & Elaine Chao really don’t count since undergoing neuralization.

Donald Trump Cabinet: Current Status of All of His Appointments

Harry Potter..., just another one of Trump’s most recent victims.

People are burning Harry Potter books and J.K. Rowling has perfect responses

& while anyone’s @ it, check out the memes for Conway’s ridiculous “Bowling Green Massacre” statement. Later, after having been caught in her falsehood, the rambunctious rascal fessed up.

Conway’s “alternative facts” are becoming legendary.

Best memes of the 'Bowling Green massacre,' the tragedy that never happened

JOIN US IN HELPING THOSE IN THIS TIME OF NEED
 
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Yet not knowing how to 'sort out this mess' doesn't restrain you from propagating prejudice and parroting Trumpian immoral and unethical indifference to the impossible situations in which vast numbers of people in the Middle East are forced to flee violence and persecution in their home lands. Maybe we need to take some time here to recall which world powers have colluded in colonializing the oil-rich Middle East since before WWII, exploiting the resources of these countries, manipulating their local economies for our profit and the profit of their princes and land owners, and seeding the inevitable revolutions that have led in our time to terrorist ideologies and activities directed against us by a group of people there who remember their history and have nothing left to lose. We created the conditions under which the mass of ordinary, nonviolent, people in the ME have had to live for nearly a century, and the conditions that they have to flee today. Do you really think we have no obligations to provide them with refuge in our own safer parts of the world? I don't understand how you can think this way.

You are thinking with your heart not your head.

The number of refugees, asylum-seekers and other displaced persons exceeded 60 million globally last year. More than half of the refugees have been uprooted not for months, but for years upon years.

It's clear that the international legal framework for responding to such crises — the 1951 Refugees Convention — is insufficiently comprehensive to deal with a situation of this magnitude and complexity. Created to respond to the 1 million Europeans still displaced years after World War II ended

(Prince El Hassan bin Talal of Jordan is chairman and founder of the West Asia-North Africa Institute.)


60 million refugees: a crisis that has outgrown its 65-year-old solution

The number of refugees in the world is at the highest level it's ever been

They way we think about refugees is outdated, the 1951 refugee convention was to deal with a million. That same solution cannot work with 65.3 million. Helping them all is like taking 2 dozen homeless into your house and feeding them on one wage. It just cant be done. Your solution "provide them refuge here at home" cannot work. Its no solution at all and is just as cruel in that it fixes nothing. It leaves millions suffering while you get a warm fuzzy glow about helping a few thousand.


I had this conversation with a pro refugee friend the other day.

"How many should we take here in Australia?"

Her reply "All of them"

"You realise there are 65 million of them ?"

Reply "So ?"

"We have 24 million here as is, the welfare and public health system is already strained, the Aust Bureau of Stats shows 75 percent of recent refugees are still on welfare after 5 years of settling with no prospect of employment in the near future", "How do we pay for this plan", How do 24 million taxpayers pay for the welfare payments of an extra 65 million ?" (forget housing, health and infrastructure like water,roads, sanitation, Police etc etc)

Her response like yours, "You racist hateful arse".

Among the benefits that can be made available to those granted protection visas, and those granted refugee status, is a one-off household formation package of up to $9850. Families can be eligible for education assistance of up to $9220. People granted refugee status become eligible for welfare payments immediately without having to wait the two-year period set for immigrants. Single applicants are eligible for a Newstart Allowance. Parents are eligible for Centrelink's parenting payment. Refugees, and some on bridging visas, also receive Medicare assistance for medical, hospital, dental, medicine and optical costs. Mobile phones are provided to those who arrive as unaccompanied minors.

This is the honeypot that has combined with civil strife to cause entire villages to empty in Sri Lanka and thousands of young men to travel from Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and Pakistan to get on illegal boats to Australia.
The truth on refugees is worse than fiction

Yeah lets multiply this by 65 million......................... As an idea its lovely. Let them stay, Help them. As a practical solution...... Its impossible


But you know Constance, go to your local CBD, there will be dozens of homeless there. Take 2 dozen into your home on your wages and feed them and see how long that works for you. Our heads know that on this scale its unworkable. But somehow the bleeding hearts can use cognitive dissonance to avoid the logic when it comes to 65.3 million refugees.

Nor is whats happening new.

In 1882 all Chinese were banned from immigrating to the US even though they only made up .002 of the then population
In 1924 all Asians were banned and a strict quota placed on all nations of origin.
When Vietnamese boat people started arriving in the 80's .62 percent of Americans said don't let them in.
In world war II boatloads of Jewish refugees were turned back by the US including one boat of Jewish German children.


This crisis has outgrown our old solutions, "letting them stay here" wont fix a damn thing, what it will do is turn your/our country into the very shitholes they are fleeing.
 
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But i guess even though your Govt Debt is 19 trillion the cost of taking refugees isnt a big deal

Government Debt: Not a Problem
When most people talk about debt, they talk about the U.S. national debt, which is approaching $19 trillion, more than 100 percent of GDP. However, this debt is not a problem at the moment because of the way the government is set up.

Unlike households and businesses, the U.S. government can force people to give it money to service its debt via taxation.

Debt Nation: The Problem, the Solutions


US taxpayers will hand over around $20,000 to settle each “refugee” and “asylum seeker,” coming to America in terms of the Obama Middle East refugee policy, a new report from Negative Population Growth has said.

The “refugees” are immediately eligible for cash welfare, food stamps, housing, and medical aid to the value of $19,884 on each refugee the US takes in.

Each “Refugee” Costs US Taxpayers $20K - The New Observer

Among the findings of this analysis:

  • On average, each Middle Eastern refugee resettled in the United States costs an estimated $64,370 in the first five years, or $257,481 per household.

  • The UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) has requested $1,057 to care for each Syrian refugee annually in most countries neighboring Syria.

  • For what it costs to resettle one Middle Eastern refugee in the United States for five years, about 12 refugees can be helped in the Middle East for five years, or 61 refugees can be helped for one year.


    The High Cost of Resettling Middle Eastern Refugees
So going back to my homeless person scenario. What makes more sense. Thinking with your head not your heart.
Taking in a single homeless person on your wage and feeding them. Or giving that same money to the salvation army or red cross who can use it to feed 12...........
 
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But i guess even though your Govt Debt is 19 trillion the cost of taking refugees isnt a big deal
Mike, in this country, the Republicans have been fear-mongering about the debt for years, when Democrats are in control. They didn't say anything when Ronald Reagan ran it up to record levels. They didn't say anything when George W. Bush put two undeclared wars on the nation's credit card. Vice President Cheney said, "deficits don't matter."

What started with a balanced budget went off the rails. Bush left us with one of the worst recessions in history, and Obama ran up debt trying to recover from the Bush mess, and made sure the expenses for the two wars weren't hidden. The Republicans complained about the deficit again.

You need to evaluate national debt against the GNP. In that respect, the U.S. isn't doing so badly. Bush destroyed the ability to balance the budget again for a generation, and Trump's ill-thought tax policies will only make it worse.
 
Mike, in this country, the Republicans have been fear-mongering about the debt for years, when Democrats are in control. They didn't say anything when Ronald Reagan ran it up to record levels. They didn't say anything when George W. Bush put two undeclared wars on the nation's credit card. Vice President Cheney said, "deficits don't matter."

What started with a balanced budget went off the rails. Bush left us with one of the worst recessions in history, and Obama ran up debt trying to recover from the Bush mess, and made sure the expenses for the two wars weren't hidden. The Republicans complained about the deficit again.

You need to evaluate national debt against the GNP. In that respect, the U.S. isn't doing so badly. Bush destroyed the ability to balance the budget again for a generation, and Trump's ill-thought tax policies will only make it worse.

Govt Debt isnt a problem as that article states, they can always take the money they need from you when they want it. The international banks are far more worried about personal debt than Govt debt.

Government Debt: Not a Problem
When most people talk about debt, they talk about the U.S. national debt, which is approaching $19 trillion, more than 100 percent of GDP. However, this debt is not a problem at the moment because of the way the government is set up.

Unlike households and businesses, the U.S. government can force people to give it money to service its debt via taxation.

Debt Nation: The Problem, the Solutions
 
If you mean raise taxes, one political party would rather give money back to rich people than deal with the consequences of such actions. They pretend rich people, being "job creators," will hire people with their tax refunds. The only people who get jobs are the ones in the Cayman Islands who work for the banks that manage their accounts. But people believe that nonsense.
 
If you mean raise taxes,

Yes thats what the article says is the way its done

Unlike households and businesses, the U.S. government can force people to give it money to service its debt via taxation.

And in truth its well known the debt being racked up now will be paid by citizens 3 generations down the line. I once read an article that said the cost of bridge maintenance in the US was being paid for on the "projected" tax income of 3 generations down the line. Taxpayers who haven't been born yet. So at our age its not much of a worry ;)
 
It's not that easy. Indeed, had "W" not screwed up the economy, stayed the hell out Iraq and Afghanistan, and didn't pass a tax cut that nobody needed other than rich people, we'd have made positive movement towards paying off the national debt. So it was possible until that loser got "elected." Excuse me, appointed by the Supreme Court.
 
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