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The Problem of Distance for ET

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I don't think distance is the biggest problem.The question of distance is irrelevent. Even polite armchair physics can see many ways to overcome this boundry. All of which are merely technilogical hurdles. Albeit, cascading and of a complex enough nature to openly terrify a Vulcan, but technological none the less. The important part is that it is not as obviously impossible as some notable astronomers have had occasion to portray. If this is indeed where the phenomenon originates, I see nothing more than the "magic" of those with a greater technological sophistication than we.

I think the biggest problem with the ETH are the claims and claimants. Starting with those who claim to be in contact with the "aliens" and then go on to catalog, often in great detail, the language, culture, and other specific attirbutes of the aliens and their home worlds.

Since the late 40's people have claimed to be in contact with Venusians and Martians. Now that we know there aren't booming metropolises on these planets this has moved further out into the unknown. Zeta Reticuli and so forth.

But, it doesnt stop there. Even the sane folks have their issues. I often hear things like, "The ETH is the most logical origin". Usually, I immediately say "WTF? How about we start with confirming the phenomenon and then gather some intell before we go slinging origin logic out there."

It has been said before and should be duely noted here. If, the occupants are communicating to common Joe's... and Jolene's... PC and all, then why should we just take them at their word with absolutely no way to verify the verasity. In fact, there seems to be a concerted effort to confuse and disorient. So why are we so damn eager to accept "their story"? To me, it seems a bit silly.

Anyway, that was my 43 cents.
 
Human being have been around for what, a few tens of thousands of years?

Hell, let's go wild, and say we've been around for 300,000 years, for shits and giggles. Look how much we've advanced technologically in the last 100 years, compared with everything before that.

Now, take a species with technology and civilization that's been around for, oh, I don't know, let's say 500 million years. Give that race the benefit of an insect-like hive mentality, extremely efficient, highly technological, unencumbered by emotional baggage and greed. Where do you think they would be compared to us? We can't even imagine it, we have absolutely no reference point of any useful sort. We barely tap into the direct energy of our star, for chrissakes, we're using sticks and stones and melted dinosaur goo, barely even registering on the galactic scale of technological sophistication. We're basically a sad little warmongering bunch of talking monkeys, easily controlled by fear, who think that we've magically tapped into the soul of the Universe, and that we alone are somehow the special focus of The One™. Rather comical, and stupendously stupid, IMO.

dB
 
RonCollins said:
So why are we so damn eager to accept "their story"? To me, it seems a bit silly.
Click to expand...

It's individual, but personally, "their story" is what rings to my intuition, and is perfectly logical on the other side.

But then you mention Venusians and all that other BS, so I'm not so sure what do you actually mean by "their story", who is it they?
 
There's an idea that we humans currently travel *on* space not *through* it.

How difficult it is to get from here to there depends on how you choose to go about it. It was considered impossible to go to the moon, or fly for that matter, not long ago. We see how right they were.
 
All it would take for a superior race to do, is to be 1/10th of a second out of phase with us, and they would live right beside us and we would never know.

It would explain how abductees see everyone around them frozen, and unresponsive. It would also explain missing time.

It's funny to me to even entertain that they would act, or behave anything like humans where space travel is concerned.

I was reading on the web, as well as in a couple of different books about a certain dinosaur that looked uncannily like a human being. In fact, it made me think about the Sleestak from Land Of The Lost. Now, imagine if this were an intelligent creature, a forerunner to humanity in some way. Imagine if there had been a split from reptiles to mammals, and they evolved along a similar path. The difference, is that during the mass extinction they were already technologically proficient to survive it.

They would literally be millions of years far more advanced than us.

It would explain a lot of things.
 
I appreciate the reponses guys and girls. It seems that if we don't even register on the technological scale hardly at all, then it is even plausible that "they" are maybe even from Saturn or Jupiter. And maybe they live on planets in our space time, and step outside of this realm to get somewhere, like here. I could be that that they are ET's who travel in another dimension and are time travellers. In other words, everything could be true couldn't it??

But it is all irrelevant. Wherever they come from and whatever they are is separate from the fact that this phenomenon is all on their terms. So until they want us to know something who really cares right??

And all these cases of contact doesn't hold much water either because there is no real concrete way for us to determine who is telling the truth. Are the contactees telling the truth?? Are they interpreting the experience while trying to describe it?? And are the beings encountered telling the truth?? We will probably never know and it is subjective to the ones that experience it. If in fact they are not delusional or hallucinating.

Sometimes I wonder why I'm even remotely interested in something so convoluted and seemingly unsolvable. It, many times, seems like such a waste of time.
 
AnnetteMarie said:
whenever I think I have a hint as to a possible maybe perhaps might be purpose or end goal of our "visitors", I come up with a thought that turns the earlier logic on its head.

hence, the headache...:frown:
Click to expand...

Get used to it. This stuff can get weirder than most imagine. The more you dig, the deeper the hole gets. The whole 'alien-visitor' thing is only one piece in a much larger puzzle.
 
David Biedny said:
Human being have been around for what, a few tens of thousands of years?

Hell, let's go wild, and say we've been around for 300,000 years, for shits and giggles. Look how much we've advanced technologically in the last 100 years, compared with everything before that.

Now, take a species with technology and civilization that's been around for, oh, I don't know, let's say 500 million years. Give that race the benefit of an insect-like hive mentality, extremely efficient, highly technological, unencumbered by emotional baggage and greed. Where do you think they would be compared to us? We can't even imagine it, we have absolutely no reference point of any useful sort. We barely tap into the direct energy of our star, for chrissakes, we're using sticks and stones and melted dinosaur goo, barely even registering on the galactic scale of technological sophistication. We're basically a sad little warmongering bunch of talking monkeys, easily controlled by fear, who think that we've magically tapped into the soul of the Universe, and that we alone are somehow the special focus of The One™. Rather comical, and stupendously stupid, IMO.

dB
Click to expand...

Actually, a hive mentality is no mentality at all - like birds flocking the apparently intelligent behaviour of hive insects is emergent behaviour: the result of each individual following a very simple algorithm is collectively complex behaviour. That's been used in fiction as a basis for alien societies (where they are individually unintelligent but have evolved advanced technology over millions of years), but in reality it's not clear that it scales to advanced technology: ants do not wonder.
Other point: Let's assume a species that has been around for millions of years. It's likely to have developed advanced technology (possibly more than once), but if the individual members of that species are not immortal (and don't forget that death is very handy: arguably you can have immortals or you can have children, but not both) then each individual in still starts as a blank slate and has to learn the lessons of life and their civilisation, just as we do.
Civilised beings don't need to be particularly intelligent compared with savages (the fact that a society has acquired a certain level of knowledge over millennia does not require that its members be individually particularly intelligent). We are a young species for sure, even by the standards of genus homo, but there's no reason why humans couldn't exist a million years from now basically unchanged from the current version: a million years isn't such a long time in the life of a species.
I've always found the arguments for aliens (or whatever) being so far beyond us as to be incomprehensible to be unconvincing - it might well be true of their technology, but there's no reason for it to be true of them as individuals.

My money is on them being just as big arseholes as us.
But with flasher cars.

On the Dreaded ETH: It's clearly inadequate to explain everything reported, but that's only to be expected when we have a big bucket full of Things We Don't Know Shit About and try to kid ourselves there's a single answer.
In its defence however it has the considerable merit of depending on fewer unknowns than some of the alternatives: We know that stars have planets, we know that in the right circumstances planets can support life, we know that planet-based life is able to develop forms that are able to ask the sort of questions about the universe that lead to advanced technology. Where there are UFO reports that could be explained by extraterrestrial visitors but not by natural phenomena or human technology, that makes them a more sensible explanation than more exotic alternatives (don't invoke the miraculous to explain the merely unlikely). If it's a question of evidence of physical, piloted objects then yeah, I'll piss everybody off and say the ETH looks pretty good in those cases. Then there are all the other cases...and the only honest answer in my opinion is to say we don't have a clue what's going on.
 
One other interesting thing is that, a lot of us were probably them in the past, because they are probably older species than us, and before there were humans, you had to incarnate as something else, an older species (going back to the moment of creation).

A lot of abduction cases also involve claims of some of these beings, that abductees in question are part of their project (that they decided to help them before entering this life), and that they were friends in many lifetimes , and things like that
 
showflake said:
One other interesting thing is that, a lot of us were probably them in the past, because they are probably older species than us, and before there were humans, you had to incarnate as something else, an older species (going back to the moment of creation).

A lot of abduction cases also involve claims of some of these beings, that abductees in question are part of their project (that they decided to help them before entering this life), and that they were friends in many lifetimes , and things like that
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That assumes that you accept any of the New Agey stuff.
I'm more partial to the idea that before there were humans (and until about 48 years ago), I didn't exist, and consequently didn't have to incarnate as anything.

I prefer that to the notion that abductees gave permission before incarnation to be treated like livestock - the implicit "so that's all right then" makes my skin crawl. It's the same line of thought that wealthy ex-hippies use to convince themselves that it's OK to ignore human suffering because the unfortunates "chose" their fate in a previous (or preliminary) existence.
Are we going to argue next that rape victims "agreed" before they were incarnated to one day be raped ?
Such a wonderful concept: it frees people from the need to ever feel outrage against a group or individual they've decided to idolise, or ever feel compassion for another human being. I'm sure that sociopath Ayn Rand would have loved it for the last reason, if not for the believing in things part.

I'll go out on a limb and call that one bollocks.
 
The idea of reincarnation is not a new concept, or the idea of preexistence.

As for being "treated like livestock", well, even if we didn't give permission, I don't seen anything wrong in what they are doing.
I'm sorry for the people who have to go through such fear, but so do animals when they go to vet, yet it's for their good.
 
showflake said:
As for being "treated like livestock", well, even if we didn't give permission, I don't seen anything wrong in what they are doing.
I'm sorry for the people who have to go through such fear, but so do animals when they go to vet, yet it's for their good.
Click to expand...

WTF! Are you freakin serious? Wow. I think you need to stop drinking the bong water.

This "Space Brothers" shit makes me psychotic.
 
showflake said:
It's individual, but personally, "their story" is what rings to my intuition, and is perfectly logical on the other side.

But then you mention Venusians and all that other BS, so I'm not so sure what do you actually mean by "their story", who is it they?
Click to expand...
Its very simple. The "they" who existed in those times told the contactees they were from Venus or Mars. Now we know that is BS. So, the "they" are now pointing to places farther away. Or at least acording to some of the contactees.

I think that it is important to state that I have known and honestly believe many experiencers/abductees. I have never found the contactee ilk ("I have been chosen to communicate on behalf of zog") to be anything more than charlatan's. These knucklehead's are the ones I am talking about.

For instance, there was a guy that David and Gene interviewed who claimed to spend 8 hours or more on board a alien craft learning the alien alphabet and other shit. I think it was David that asked him how he would relieve himself. In essence, what did the toilet look like? His answer was classic. Something to the tune of "I often hold it for 8 or more hours". So we were to believe that this guys has spent hundreds of hours on board and never had to take a piss. Very convenient.
 
I don't drink. You don't need to jump like that to my opinion. I think they are doing important job, that needs to be done, and has been done for millions of years, regardless of whether you or I have any problems with it. Personally, I think we are living on their planet as local wildlife, and not that they are visitors on our planet.
 
RonCollins said:
Its very simple. The "they" who existed in those times told the contactees they were from Venus or Mars. Now we know that is BS. So, the "they" are now pointing to places farther away. Or at least acording to some of the contactees.
I think that it is important to state that I have known and honestly believe many experiancers/abductees. I have never found the contactee ilk ("I have been chosen to communicate on behalf of zog") to be anything more than charlatan's. These knucklehead's are the ones I am talking about.
For instance, there was a guy that David and Gene interviewed who claimed to spend 8 hours r more on board a alien craft learning the alien alphabet and other shit. I think it was David that asked him how he would releive himself. In essence, what did the toilet look like? His answer was classic. Something to the tune of "I often hold it for 8 or more hours". So we were to believe that this guys has spent hunderds of hours on board and never had to take a piss. Very convenient.
Click to expand...

The person you are talking about is Jim Sparks. I think he is a pretty confused person
 
Well, I'm 23, i don't think I'm too young to drink, the only drinking I do is wine on Lord's supper, but other than that, I just feel it goes against my spirit.
But I used to drink too much in the past.

And besides, why does everyone call this New Age? I think New Age beliefs are a bit different from what I'm talking about. My beliefs are quite conservative.
I don't think any of this stuff is new, it has been written many times in many ancient texts, mankind was informed through various prophets, of all of what is happening now
 
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