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The Problem with Ufology Today

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SgtRock

Skilled Investigator
I put together a list of things that continue to bother me about the state of Ufology today. These are just my observations. Feel free to add to it or tear it apart. In short, I believe that the field has been hijacked by those seeking attention, and each is trying to outdo the other in outrageousness just to get that attention. The more outrageous the claim, the further we get away from scientific analysis of physical evidence. I applaud people like Gene and Dave that have exposed a lot of these frauds on their show. Still, there fails to be what is really needed, a fundamental re-boot of the field of Ufology. Otherwise it will remain the dominion of the foil-hat crowd.

1 -- Physical evidence: In the 1940s and 1950s, the focus of Ufology (if it could be called that) was on sightings (interesting how it coincided with the world’s entry into flight technology). By the 1960s and 1970s, the focus became physical evidence – people seeing scorch marks, footprints, measurable levels of physical residue, increased radiation levels, etc. Then, by the 1980s, abductions started being widely discussed and reported. By the 1990s and through today, it’s back to sightings – Phoenix lights, O’Hare Incident – etc. With the current state of video editing technology, I really think there needs to be a greater focus on physical evidence. Photos and video are mostly useless today (not completely as trained imagery scientists can find fakes). But the field would be far better off if it focused on things that can be scientifically proven.>>
2 -- Eye Witnesses: People that state that trained observers like pilots and policemen are no better witnesses than the average Joe are idiots. Still, since humans still know very little about the brain and how it works (can people have mass hallucinations like at Fatima?), I think more study needs to be conducted on the human brain to determine whether it can “create” (some would say “perceive”) an alternative reality, and whether this situation can be “networked” across multiple brains (abductees), or concurrent perceptions (mass sightings). Along with number 1 above, if much of what is being “seen” actually is what the brain may be perceiving instead, these might be instances that cannot be photographed anyway – like abductions.
3 -- Why would they take 60 years to study soil”?: One common error on many in the field continues to be assigning human understanding and motivations to potential non-human actions. It can’t be done, so stop doing it.
4 -- It’s ETH or nothing: People that are not willing to consider alternative explanations no longer are researchers, they are advocates. Advocates are not concerned with finding truths, but only in proving they are not wrong. Discard them.
5 -- Finger Pointers and Cry Babies: When people are unable to engage in thoughtful scientific consideration, can’t find the answers, or otherwise have given up the scientific approach, they often engage in finger pointing – “it’s the government’s fault,” “they know the answer, if only they would tell us”, “this is too hard of a problem for me to solve, let someone else give me an answer”, etc. This intellectual laziness is killing the field. Look, serious researchers need to assume that no one out there has the answer yet – including the government. Stop looking for scapegoats as to why you don’t have the answers you want and look for them using established scientific principles.
6 -- Intelligence “Insiders”: Listen, everyone exposed to classified information signed a “non-disclosure agreement” (NDF not/not and NDA) stating that they swear and affirm to never disclose the information they are being exposed to, to ANYONE. Period. If a person then discloses that information, they are not only committing a “felony” offense, but they are by definition a “liar” – they have lied to the people they have taken an oath to protect. If a person is willing to “lie” once, they probably will be willing to lie again. There is a caveat to this, and that is “whistleblowers”. But the “whistleblower” statutes are very narrow and much defined -- a person has to follow a specific procedure. Anyone just coming out and releasing what they call is “classified” is either committing a felony, or making it up (unless they fall under the whistleblower statutes which require certain procedures – talking to the press or to Ufologists does not qualify). I am just saying that people willing to violate an NDF where they swore to protect their nation’s secrets need to be looked at skeptically.
7 -- Above “Top Secret”. What a popular phrase. But seriously, there are no classifications levels “above” Top Secret. There are three levels, confidential, secret, and top secret. Period. There also is special compartmented information, called SCI. This information usually falls within Top Secret, but may also be Secret. The point is, that the information in SCI compartments falls within one of the existing three levels. ALL compartments do this. When people say that they have clearances “above top secret” they should be looked at skeptically.
8 -- CIA/NSA “Agents”. The CIA and NSA don’t have “agents”. They have “analysts” or “operatives”. The FBI has “agents”. The DEA has “agents”, the TSA has “agents” (see a pattern?). Usually “law-enforcement” agencies have “agents”. Intel agencies have operatives, or analysts. As an aside, if someone were to ever be “accused” of being an “NSA Agent” they should not take this as an insult, but wear it as a badge of honor – because those people keep Americans safe every damn day.
9 -- Domestic intelligence Collection: Ever since “The Hughes-Ryan Act of 1974,” it has been illegal for US Intelligence Agencies to collect information on US citizens. This was a result of the Watergate era. This Act was amended in 1980 making it even stricter. Some of the provisions were clarified in the Patriot Act, so that terrorists overseas communicating inside the US could be collected upon. Any collection involving a US citizen requires a US court action. Almost all is conducted by the FBI and requires a court order. People that claim that they are being monitored by the CIA or NSA should be looked at skeptically if they claim it has taken place SINCE 1974.
10 -- Cattle Mutilations: There is a whole genre of Ufology that almost always has some type of physical evidence. Why are these not being more closely studied? So far, Human mutilations have been confined to fiction writings. But on a previous Paracast Don Ecker mentioned something like this when he was a detective. Why isn’t there more research being done in this area

Conclusion: I guess if I had to sum up everything that I have mentioned here, it would be the following: I believe there is too much attention being focused on peripheral issues (photos, videos, disclosure movements, secret agents, government conspiracies, the Queen of England is a reptile, etc) when there should be more attention paid to physical evidentiary issues – landings, residuals, mutilations, human brain function, etc. Ufology has been hijacked by the foil hat crowd. Even places like the paracast forums are more dominated by 9-11 conspiracy talk than scientific research or theories – a mere reflection of what the entire field has become. Gene and Dave keep stating and restating that they are trying to separate the “signal from the noise” and I believe they almost always succeed in their show – certainly better than anyone else in the field (except for when David goes off into politics). But in order for this endeavor to truly take off, I believe Ufology needs a reboot, and needs to go back to the roots etablished by J. Allen Hynek and Vallee. Ufology needs to go back to the study of physical evidence.>>
 
You made a lot of good points. Here is a problem I have personally. What about the victims that have had their lives completely ruined by the very people that are supposed to protect them..the government. Where does this fit into any sense of justice or morality?

I think having people believe it is the aliens vs black ops would be encourages by these groups. Have you attended any UFO conferences? It seems that the people spewing crap are by and large less messed with than people that are either looking for the truth or seeing a different element to this. I am by no means blaming the Govt for everything and think there is a real phenomena going on.

Look at all the testimonies for UFO witnesses, men in black, mind control victims. If our government wasn't beyond corrupt and would just come clean it would be a better place but I know that is just wishful thinking.

Let me add one more thing. This non disclosure for life that is implemented is in some cases damaging to these people. I have witnessed what this can do to someone's being. Not only that the inhumane practices that are justified under the sanction of "national security" used on people to make sure they never talk or remember in some cases is sinister. The system is barbaric IMO.

So my beef is on a system level and not aimed at anyone in particular in the Govt. If anyone knows how systems of justice can be changed please point me in that direction. Everyone is just following orders or else is beyond my psychological make up.
 
You made a lot of good points. Here is a problem I have personally. What about the victims that have had their lives completely ruined by the very people that are supposed to protect them..the government. Where does this fit into any sense of justice or morality?
>>
Hi Ally. I wasn't attempting to achieve any sense of justice or morality -- just trying to move the argument into more scientifically-accepted avenues. I believe this is the only way to obtain any real answers to this phenomenon. Almost all of the people that used this approach in the past have either died (Hynek), or left the field (Vallee). No one has stepped up to fill their shoes -- and that is why we are no closer to having an answer today then we were 30 years ago.>>
>>
I think having people believe it is the aliens vs black ops would be encourages by these groups. Have you attended any UFO conferences?
>>
>>
No. I avoid these at all costs. I believe the issue has been hijacked by the most extreme "believers", modern day snake-oil salesmen, and those pushing personal agendas (like the disclosure movement). These groups have ruined any attempts to scientifically look at this issue. It's much easier to blame others for a lack of an answer, then to scientifically come up with their own answers.>>
>>
But this gives me an opportunity to add to my list above (there is something clean about keeping a list at 10, but here goes):>>
>>
11 -- The Government Agenda to Discredit Ufology/Ufologists. The argument goes that the government, gravely concerned about people learning the "truth" about UFOs, engaged in a campaign to discredit those researching the topic, or something similar. The idea that the government "needs" to engage in a campaign to discredit anyone in Ufology is laughable when one looks at what people in the field do themselves to discredit each other. But perhaps I am jumping too far ahead -->>
>>
Indeed, there was a campaign in the 1940s and 1950s to cull the enthusiasm of the American public over their hysteria about the "flying saucer invasion." It is no longer a secret that the government was very concerned over the sheer amount of reports that they were receiving on UFOs in the late 1940s and throughout the 1950s. At this time, the major concern of the government was not that we were being invading by space aliens, but that the American people's hysteria over the issue was causing a strain on US intelligence collection and the civil air defense system of the US military in charge of protecting America from aerial invasion of a terrestrial kind. As such, some in government postulated that the Soviets would exploit this hysteria by adding to it, causing the aerial "911" service to collapse. The "Reds" would then use this to launch a real invasion, thus gaining control of America's airspace since the system could not possibly deal with differentiating bogus UFO reports from real a Soviet air attack. While this seems rather silly to us today, you have to remember the hysteria that existed in American in the early days of the Cold War. This is all summed up quite nicely in a New York Times article, "U.F.O.s: The Untold Story (14OCT1979) which reads in part:>>
>>
"The situation got out of control in the summer of 1952. On the morning of July 28, the Washington Post revealed that the U.F.O.s had been tracked on radar at Washington National Airport, the second such incident in a week. Reporters stormed Air Force headquarters in the Pentagon, where switchboards were jammed for days with U.F.O. inquiries. Military installations across the country handled such a volume of reports that, 'regular intelligence work had been affected,' reported the New York Times." (NYT 14OCY1979) This article can still be searched on the NYT web site. I have a copy which I could probably send someone under the fair-use distribution principle, but it's just as easy to pay the $2.95 on NYT site and get your own copy so I don't get charged with copyright infringment.
>>
The point is, in the early days, there was a huge concern that American citizen UFO reports were going to overwhelm the US air defense system and that the Soviets would exploit this issue to launch an attack. Thus, the plan was initiated to "calm" down the public by explaining away the issue as nothing more than swamp gas, mis-identified astronomical events, etc. But later, say, after the mid-1970s, the issue began to be hijacked by the tinfoil-hat crowd -- which dominates it today. Today, the government does not need to engage in any disinformation campaign, as the Ufology crowd does a better job at discrediting each other than he US government ever did.>>
>>
Until the scientific community regains control over this issue and the detractors and snake-oil salesmen are cast aside, no progress will ever be made in this topic. The Paracast stands alone in all the drivel that is out there. But it is only one show. Who's gonna pick up where Hynek and Vallee left off?
 
SgtRock,
Well I understand why you would want to avoid UFO conferences but it might be useful to see who shows up besides the snake oil salesman and the crazies. There are govt people, intelligence people and I talked to someone from NASA or at least that is what he claimed. Why would these type of people attend a conference with a bunch of loons and thieves? Also I disagree that disinformation is still not used on this topic.

I do agree that the study of this phenomena should have a strong scientific- orientated direction. MUFON has tried this but IMO I am not impressed by the myopic view of this very strange phenomena it has.

The study of consciousness should be on this list as well as a nuts and bolts type of research. Modern day science at least public science has not reached a place to study some aspects of this. Oh speaking of conferences I have attended several science and consciousness conferences and some very suspicious activities and people hang around these type of conferences too.
 
I'd like to see you elaborate particularly on your definitions/opinions of 'whistleblowers' in Point # 6:
..................................................................................................

6 -- <snip> There is a caveat to this, and that is “whistleblowers”. But the “whistleblower” statutes are very narrow and much defined -- a person has to follow a specific procedure. Anyone just coming out and releasing what they call is “classified” is either committing a felony, or making it up (unless they fall under the whistleblower statutes which require certain procedures – talking to the press or to Ufologists does not qualify). I am just saying that people willing to violate an NDF where they swore to protect their nation’s secrets need to be looked at skeptically.
..............................................................................................</snip>
 
I'd like to see you elaborate particularly on your definitions/opinions of 'whistle blowers in Point # 6:

Not sure what there is left to elaborate on other than to restate what I've already said. But I thank you for the opportunity to restate my argument. The legal protections afforded someone for violating their NDF agreement are very,very narrow and specific. A person that has had access to classified material and has taken an oath to protect it cannot just decide one day to be the "legal declassifier" simply because they choose. If, however, a person finds themselves needing to disclose classified information for the purpose of exposing potential illegal activity, there is a process that must be followed. Simply appearing on CNN or putting it out in a book you make a profit on, or sending it to a movie maker, is NOT the process. Everyone that signs an NDF is made aware of this. So, all I am saying is, be careful with people that say they had access to classified information, and now they want to sell you a book to tell you what they know. By the mere act of illegally and intentionally releasing classified information makes that person a liar. The way this ties into my whole position is: rather than wasting time and energy investigating people's claims about their potential leaks of classified information, a much more effective use of energy would be to spend that time and resources scientifically investigating physical evidence instead. For example, I postulate that someone like Stanton Friedman would have had a much greater impact on Ufology over the last two decades had he spent more time investigating things the way Hynek did (and he would have been a natural replacement for Hynek) had he not spent so much time investigating the Majestic documents -- which are clearly forgeries. Instead, the man has spent the last two decades defending a position that in all probability was wrong from the start.
 
Thanks for elaborating on Point #6 for me, SgtRock :)

My take:

Not sure what there is left to elaborate on other than to restate what I've already said. But I thank you for the opportunity to restate my argument.

The legal protections afforded someone for violating their NDF agreement are very,very narrow and specific.

(I agree with this)

A person that has had access to classified material and has taken an oath to protect it cannot just decide one day to be the "legal declassifier" simply because they choose.

(Hmm.....)

If, however, a person finds themselves needing to disclose classified information for the purpose of exposing potential illegal activity, there is a process that must be followed.

(Ok...)


Simply appearing on CNN or putting it out in a book you make a profit on, or sending it to a movie maker, is NOT the process.

(Agreed, in part...the making a profit on part....)


Everyone that signs an NDF is made aware of this.

(Ok....)

So, all I am saying is, be careful with people that say they had access to classified information, and now they want to sell you a book to tell you what they know.

(Ah, I see what you are saying now.....and don't disagree with ya....)


By the mere act of illegally and intentionally releasing classified information makes that person a liar.

(Hmm......you mean releasing in a wide/loud, for-profit sense.....right?)

The way this ties into my whole position is: rather than wasting time and energy investigating people's claims about their potential leaks of classified information,
a much more effective use of energy would be to spend that time and resources scientifically investigating physical evidence instead.

(Don't disagree with you, there)

For example, I postulate that someone like Stanton Friedman would have had a much greater impact on Ufology over the last two decades
had he spent more time investigating things the way Hynek did (and he would have been a natural replacement for Hynek)
had he not spent so much time investigating the Majestic documents -- which are clearly forgeries.

Instead, the man has spent the last two decades defending a position that in all probability was wrong from the start.

(OK. I have no opinion one way or the other (yet),
but you have a right to yours! :)

Enjoyed this discussion......my...I must be on some kinda roll with giving detailed replies today, lol. :D
 
Sgt

Above Top Secret

Two NSA 'operatives' came from London to debrief US airmen who surrounded a UFO that had landed in Rendlesham forest near two US airforce bases. The operatives showed a brief history of UFO craft caught on camera. They told all those assembled that their security clearance were raised to Above Top Secret. The airmen were not allowed to discuss it with anyone. Someone asked what if they did. The operatives replied "Bullets are cheap" Of your eleven statements, this scenario would contradict two of them.
 
Two NSA 'operatives' came from London to debrief US airmen who surrounded a UFO that had landed in Rendlesham forest near two US airforce bases. The operatives showed a brief history of UFO craft caught on camera. They told all those assembled that their security clearance were raised to Above Top Secret. The airmen were not allowed to discuss it with anyone. Someone asked what if they did. The operatives replied "Bullets are cheap" Of your eleven statements, this scenario would contradict two of them.

Thanks for this. I've been thinking about it and wasn't quite sure of the reference. This part of the story has always bothered me as not ringing quite true. The NSA is tasked with intelligence gathering. As I believe SgtRock said, they don't have agents, they have analysts. Their primary job is to 'listen.' Their computers attempt to listen in on all foreign traffic, and sometimes they get into trouble for listening to American citizens. (Note: I have a story about this I may share at a later time. Some of the 'outrage' over this is comedic.) Most all their work is in SIGNINT: Signals Intelligence, i.e.: Transmitted. They employ linguists in large numbers, many serving in the armed forces or through private 'beltway bandit' contractors. They work all over the world, from remote Navy bases in the Indian ocean to P3 Orion airplanes chugging up and down the coast of Iran and Iraq. (It was one of those off the coast of China that collided with a Chinese air force Mig a few years ago.)

The thing is, NSA does not 'do' HUMINT. They leave that to the CIA. There are other intelligence services, of course, but they tend to be highly specialized. NIS, for example, the Naval Investigative Service, tends to deal with internal Naval affairs, conduct background investigations, get the druggies in uniform, etc.

Now, it may be that the NSA does have a super secret UFO/Illuminati/Masonic tag team few people know about that has somehow been assigned this mission to hush up UFO encounters. I have to admit that it is possible. But it doesn't fit the profile. If the NSA did encounter a UFO transmission, then they would just send it up the Chain of Command. they don't teach Ufoese at DLI (Defense Language Institiute at Monterey, CA), at least as far as I know.

Another possibility is that whatever agents who were there intentionally mis-identified themselves, or the people being talked to mis-understood, but the probability that the NSA itself is involved in this mess is, to my mind, slim. It makes about as much sense as agents from the US Park Service being involved. It's just not their job.
 
Schuyler, thanks for your post. You sum of NSA is very concise. This is what they say on their web site, "SIGINT is a category of intelligence that includes transmissions associated with communications, radars, and weapons systems used by our adversaries. It complements other forms of intelligence that are the responsibility of other U.S. agencies in the Intelligence Community. For example, Human Intelligence (HUMINT) is primarily the responsibility of the Central Intelligence Agency and Defense Intelligence Agency, and Imagery Intelligence (IMINT) belongs to the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency. Together, all of these different - yet complementary - disciplines give our Nation's leaders a greater understanding of the intentions of our enemies."

So, seems odd to me as well that they would be investigating a UFO incident in the UK, not to mention that if they were doing so, that they would even identify themselves as such. Also, again the whole "Above Top Secret" issue bothers me as there are no such clearances. What is possible, is that they were "read in to" a special compartmented program, but even there, those exist only within the three categories I previously mentioned.
 
Skunpape, thanks, this is the kind of stuff I was looking for. I heard that another UFO personality made a passing reference to this case once. What I continue to wonder is if there are any other documented cases in this area. Don Ecker seemed to indicate there was on one of his recent appearances on the Paracast.
 
Larry Warren wrote Left at East Gate. He described his abduction by these 'agents' or 'operatives' for three days. Nearly all those involved with the alien craft that night were shot up with drugs and threatened and many were transferred to the US in weeks.He didn't know who they were associated with for years. He was continually threatened by this group. These 'agents' confiscated all of his military records. Warren suffered medical problems from possible nuclear radiation (Weapons Storage Area) and burns in his eyes caused by an exploding 'alien' flying mobile unit. After much searching, his records were found at the NSA and to this day is visited by 'agents' who have 'words' with him. Warren lives in Great Britain. By extension, the US government, by its silence, had participated in the actions of this agency. And by its policy stating UFOs pose no serious defensive threat to the US has put a large segment of the population at risk for a psychological meltdown. NSA like the CIA have several arms that do dirty work for them. Image...image...
 
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><style> .Normal {margin:0.0pt; margin-top:0.0pt; margin-bottom:0.0pt; margin-left:0.0pt; margin-right:0.0pt; text-indent:0.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; font-size:10.0pt; color:Black; font-weight:normal; } H1 {margin:0.0pt; margin-top:12.0pt; margin-bottom:3.0pt; margin-left:0.0pt; margin-right:0.0pt; text-indent:0.0pt; font-family:"Arial"; font-size:18.0pt; color:Black; font-weight:bold; } H2 {margin:0.0pt; margin-top:12.0pt; margin-bottom:3.0pt; margin-left:0.0pt; margin-right:0.0pt; text-indent:0.0pt; font-family:"Arial"; font-size:16.0pt; color:Black; font-weight:bold; } H3 {margin:0.0pt; margin-top:12.0pt; margin-bottom:3.0pt; margin-left:0.0pt; margin-right:0.0pt; text-indent:0.0pt; font-family:"Arial"; font-size:14.0pt; color:Black; font-weight:bold; } </style> [FONT=&quot]Larry Warren wrote Left at East Gate. He described his abduction by these 'agents' or 'operatives' for three days. Nearly all those involved with the alien craft that night were shot up with drugs and threatened and many were transferred to the US in weeks.He didn't know who they were associated with for years. He was continually threatened by this group. These 'agents' confiscated all of his military records. Warren suffered medical problems from possible nuclear radiation (Weapons Storage Area) and burns in his eyes caused by an 'alien' flying mobile unit. After much searching, his records were found at the NSA and to this day is visited by 'agents' who have 'words' with him. Warren lives in Great Britain. By extention, the US government, by its silence, had participated in the actions of this agency. And by its policy stating UFOs pose no serious defensive threat to the US has put a large segment of the population at risk for a psychological meltdown. NSA like the CIA have several arms that do dirty work for them. Image...image...[/FONT]
 
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