The Roswell Slides Have Been Leaked Online

[Burnt State]

What is so sad is that these so-called UFO celebrities, Moulton-Howe, Maussan, and even Richard Dolan are so hard up for publicity or some money that they would soil their names in order to be part of this sham.

Actually, they represent clearly the mainstream concept of Ufoology as entertainment. It's lowest common denominator type of material. They, along with Greer and the disclosure movement, prop up an ideology of knowing that the aliens have been here, come from outer space and you need to pay money to see them. Mauusan, like Greer, is a carnival barker. This is in fact the UFO freak show. I'll leave it to you to figure out who is the dog faced boy.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Maussan has been hoaxing for years he is part of the problem. .

Naw, I agree w/ Burnt. He's a successful Mexican-style PT Barnum—not a hoaxer, big difference. He finds fantastic fodder to wow the masses who wouldn't know the difference between what's truly real and what they see on any TV show. He's an entertainer with a successful career hyping the hype-able and doesn't even try to hide his focus on the gullible true-believer crowd. I recently watched his breathless presentation. About 15 to 20% of it was truly remarkable. The rest? Well, I had to quell the urge to guffaw, cough and sneeze, "boo-shheet" time after time after time....

 

[Wade]

Actually, they represent clearly the mainstream concept of Ufoology as entertainment. It's lowest common denominator type of material. They, along with Greer and the disclosure movement, prop up an ideology of knowing that the aliens have been here, come from outer space and you need to pay money to see them. Mauusan, like Greer, is a carnival barker. This is in fact the UFO freak show. I'll leave it to you to figure out who is the dog faced boy.

there's an awfully thin line between hoaxers and carnival barkers though. how do you decide ? better yet WHO decides ? If you take someone's money and dangle something in front of them then don't deliver what then ? what label do we throw on them ? was not Greer taking people out on field trips on the promise of some kind of contact...but from a distance...is that a carnival barker or a hoax ? where is the distinction ? If anomalous lights do show up but there's no contact, is that a hoax ?

Wasn't Jaime a shill for the "Roswell" slides ? If we judge the slides to be a hoax and an individual promotes them doesn't that make that person a hoaxer, or maybe we should call Jaime a patsy. what about the Roswell crew, Drew , Carey, Schmitt and Bragalia ? Are they just misguided true believers ? what category do we put them into ?

I did a personal mea culpa a couple of years back when it came to the Blake Cousins train wreck episode. Initially I piled on along with every one else when it came to laughing at him and poking fun at him ( I still do a little ) but after some retroflection and the subsequent J.C. Johnson show I had to question my p.o.v. I considered Blake a showman/ carnival barker , a clown maybe and even a trickster. He obviously doesn't believe half the stuff on his web site and looks like he's laughing out of the side of his mouth and is probably wondering what's the deal with people who flock to his site. Is it not advertiser/ "click" driven ? what is the harm in that ? Why isn't he considered a genius for the traffic he generates for rank amateur production ? Is he setting back Ufology back any more or less than Greer? HE's not actually taking people's money is he ? at least not as far as I know. Yet he is still vilified here and elsewhere ? also I don't think Blake ever locked a group of people in a room, after taking their money of course.

we should let Burnt's poll play out awhile more and then I should start one a poll. One on who or what constitutes a fraud a hoax or a "gotcha". should we all shack up in the chat room and hammer out some agreed upon parameters at which we(?) should judge our hoaxers/showmen/tricksters and what category to put them into because right now i'm as confused as f***

 

[Drake_the_Gilliland]

Naw, I agree w/ Burnt. He's a successful Mexican-style PT Barnum—not a hoaxer, big difference. He finds fantastic fodder to wow the masses who wouldn't know the difference between what's truly real and what they see on any TV show. He's an entertainer with a successful career hyping the hype-able and doesn't even try to hide his focus on the gullible true-believer crowd. I recently watched his breathless presentation. About 15 to 20% of it was truly remarkable. The rest? Well, I had to quell the urge to guffaw, cough and sneeze, "boo-shheet" time after time after time....

Might be a decent book idea. Plenty of people are willing to pay him a decent pound of gold to have him tell them what they want to hear. Call it Stalking the Pay Day.

 

[DaveM]

People like Maussan don't care what disbelievers think. As long as he can make his sales pitch to those who buy his stories, his wallet will be full.

 

[George Wingfield]

Fascinating. If your theory that these guys are also responsible for the Roswell Slides is correct, even I [having been aware of many details concerning their careers in disinformation and manipulation] will be amazed by the extent of their success. They have been at their game for at least three decades, perhaps four decades by now, and the question to be asked is who or what has funded their various costly projects? Of course you're aware of the frequently expressed theory that they are MI5 disinformation operatives, long tasked with discrediting ufo and paranormal subjects. If not MI5/CIA (as Colin Andrews identifies the allied agencies likely to fund their enterprises), who else would support these guys over most of their adult lifetimes engaged in thought control, without other visible means of support? I look forward to reading your cited article and to any other information you would like to share here concerning these very serious 'pranksters'.

Constance, You ask whether these hoaxers, the “Gang of 3” –Lundberg, Dickinson and Irving-- are MI5/CIA disinformation agents long tasked with discrediting UFO and paranormal subjects. I really have no reason to think that since there are plenty of people in the UFO community who do just that without there being any need for CIA money and outside tricksters. Jaime Maussan is a good example and Whitley Strieber, Linda Howe, and other UFO celebrities have often brought the subject into disrepute by promoting sensational false cases. In the UK at any rate there have been several other gangs of circlemakers beside the Gang of 3 but they are certainly among the best at it. Besides, they are the only ones –as far as I know-- who have tried faking an alien corpse.

Another fallacy is that the Alien Autopsy scam of 1995 must have cost many thousands of dollars to produce and therefore these guys were funded by MI5 or other government agencies. At most the autopsy film would have cost about $2,000 and no one was being paid for their services in advance. At the time these three had paid jobs as, say, cameramen, production assistants and such like with TV, film, and/or theatrical outfits and none of them was hard up. Since that time Lundberg and some other circlemakers have reaped lucrative commissions from big commercial companies by making complex designs for them in crop fields in the UK and USA. Payment for making the Nvidia microchip circle near Chualar, CA, for publicity purposes in December 2013 was ‘substantial’.

To UFO true believers it is very easy to demonize these tricksters who are seen to be spreading deception and dismay among the faithful. Well, deception certainly, but there has always been plenty of that from within the UFO community itself. For years contactees such as George Adamski and Billy Meier and others like Bob Lazar, Linda Cortile (with Budd Hopkins), Whitley Strieber in his fictional book “Communion –A True Story”, Stan Romanek, and Ed Walters with his faked UFO photos, have been lionized and applauded. Are UFO celebrities like this any less guilty of deception than the notorious Gang of 3 ?

There are some honest UFO researchers whose sole mission is to get at the truth but I’m sorry to say there are many others with quite different motives. Over the last 30 years it seems that the lunatics have taken over the asylum. Listen to Coast-to-Coast and you’ll see what I mean. Worse still is that very few in the UFO community seem to have noticed. When I used to gently point this out at UFO conferences and such gatherings there was sometimes a muttering that I must be a CIA or MI6 disinformation agent. Hardly! Neither the CIA nor MI6 has ever paid me a single penny (but I’ll gladly accept a few $$$ if these gentlemen would like to send it!)

One should really watch the documentary film Mirage Men (Director: John Lundberg) to appreciate the extent of the disinformation and deception in US ufology and how it has been used to create a modern UFO mythology with Roswell, little gray aliens, MJ-12, an alien treaty with the US government allowing them to abduct humans, alien underground bases, cattle mutilated by aliens, etc. Another thing with disinformation and deception merchants is that they are no longer faceless men in far off places –they are often tweeters and bloggers who are right here on your computer screen just a mouse-click or two away. Are you reading this, John? (If so, please say ‘Hi’)

Regards, George

 

[Ostension]

> Are you reading this, John? (If so, please say ‘Hi’)

Hi George, I am and hi, hope you're well.
Glad you enjoyed Mirage Men.
* Yes it's really me, you once called me a poodle-faker.

 

[George Wingfield]

Hi, John I've called you all sorts of things in the past and I do remember poodlefaker was one of them so I guess that you, "Ostension", are indeed the one and only John Lundberg. Congratulations on 'Mirage Men' which was excellent.

I am well thank you, and I hope that you are too. Are you in London or have you and Team Satan (not sure you call yourselves that any more!) decamped to the US to pursue a lucrative career in circlemaking, movie-making, poodlefaking, or even alien-making these days?

I would obviously like to ask you about the so-called "Roswell Slides" though I might not believe all that you say..... Hilda Ray? C'mon --gimme a break! (If this conversation is better pursued offline I can be found on 319 669-9053)

 

[George Wingfield]

"Might be a decent book idea. Plenty of people are willing to pay him a decent pound of gold to have him tell them what they want to hear. Call it Stalking the Pay Day...."

I really like Chris's idea as regards the stalking factor in this business. However, it's animate things that get stalked, rather than inanimate things like a Pay Day (which we all pursue in some way or other). Many stalking victims --like, say, Sandra Bullock-- don't realize at first that they are being stalked though in other cases it's obvious. So, let me give you a few examples :-



STALKED: Almost everybody........................STALKERS: Tele-marketing salesmen, assorted internet fraudsters, cybercrooks and the like.

STALKED: Y'all maybe?................................STALKERS: Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, political canvassers, etc., etc., etc.

STALKED: Cattle on the open range.............STALKERS: Aliens, if you believe Linda Howe, but more likely predators, vultures, and occasionally criminals both military and civilian.

STALKED: Roswellites, MUFON folk, etc....STALKERS: Richard Doty and some AFOSI folk. Also our friend 'Ostension" and other UFOfakers, alienfakers.

STALKED: Alien Abductees...........................STALKERS: Supposedly the aliens, oversexed alien reptiles, MILAB guys, etc.

STALKED: Crop Circle Believers...................STALKERS: 'Ostension' and his fellow circlemakers.


And of course many, many more. Maybe, Chris, The Paracast could offer a Stalker Control Service (like Ghostbusters or Pest Control?) which would advise and help the victims of this modern multifaceted ongoing abuse?

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

I like your ironic sense of humor George. How refreshing! BTW: The follow up to Stalking the Herd is tentatively titled: Stalking the Stalkers,

 

[George Wingfield]

Would you buy a second-hand alien corpse from Adam Dew? Well, more to the point is whether you would buy this man’s story about the origin of the so-called Roswell Slides and buy tickets for the “UFO Special Event” in Mexico City hosted by Jaime Maussan on the strength of it. I suggest that anyone who does so will have been taken for a complete fool.

Let us briefly recap on the alleged provenance of the Roswell Slides. Back on February 20, 2015, Adam Dew, under the user name SlideBox Media, posted to Rich Reynolds UFO Conjectures blog the following:

A quick timeline as I understand it: Hilda [Ray] died in 1988. Slides were discovered when emptying out a garage outside of Sedona (Cottonwood we think) in 1998. Slides were deemed interesting (obviously old color slides) but not fully examined until around 2008. While I think that the home may have belonged to Hilda’s lawyer, there is no way to know for sure as the woman who found them [the slides] didn’t keep records of the homes she cleaned out… I don’t think the slides came from Hilda’s home.

Does anyone really believe this? It sounds just as false as Ray Santilli’s story concerning the origin of the footage of hoaxed alien HILDA which he produced in London in 1995. Adam Dew is evidently the new Santilli and the slide photographs of his “Roswell Alien” are almost certainly provided by the same source: John Lundberg and Rob Irving. The fact that the name “Hilda Ray” was written on some of the slides that were with ones showing the alleged alien corpse is a dead giveaway and is typical of the wicked humor of Irving and Lundberg. I suggest that Adam Dew has colluded with these two to present this new Roswell hoax. The story of a connection with the real Hilda Ray, the garage clearance and discovery of the slides in Sedona or Cottonwood, AZ, plus the 2008 timeline, is mere hogwash.

Whether or not Jaime Maussan is in on this new Roswell hoax is not clear. He may well be thick as thieves with Dew or else he may be a dupe of the hoaxers. There was similar uncertainty back in 2007 when Maussan promoted what he claimed was a real “alien creature”. It turned out to be a skinned squirrel-monkey that had been prepared by a taxidermist. For a photo of that particular hoaxed alien see my article titled US Ufology’s Alien Zoo (at:- georgewingfield.blogspot.com/2014_11_01_archive.html )

Whoever is responsible for the Roswell Slides hoax, I do suggest that any serious UFO researcher giving it credence and appearing at Maussan’s UFO & Alien Circus in Mexico City will be made to look extremely foolish.

 

[Constance]

George, why don't you just ask Lundberg this question directly? You evidently have cordial relations with him, so why wouldn't he tell you? That way you could pass the word along on ufo forums and blogs and save a lot of people the trouble of a trip to Mexico in May.

Unless it happens that you share Lundberg et al's 'wicked' sense of humor and are just messing with people?

Or perhaps perpetuating the legend of their boundless talents in perception management, for one unfathomable purpose or another?

 

[Burnt State]

> Are you reading this, John? (If so, please say ‘Hi’)

Hi George, I am and hi, hope you're well.
Glad you enjoyed Mirage Men.
* Yes it's really me, you once called me a poodle-faker.

In experimenting with ostension how often have you run into the experience where those engaged in reenacting the ritual of the narrative begin to destabilize mentally as a byproduct of engaging in actions supporting the narrative? In your opinion are some areas of ostension more prone to this experience than others - which ones and why?

 

[Ostension]

Hello Burnt State. I disagree with your premiss. An individuals psychosis resulting from dysfunctional cognitive processing could apply to any external stimulus.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

More important events going on in the world than the so called Roswell Slides and thousands of children dieing of starvation , Missing 411 folks and will not lose sleep over the event.

 

[Burnt State]

Hello Burnt State. I disagree with your premiss. An individuals psychosis resulting from dysfunctional cognitive processing could apply to any external stimulus.

Hello, Ostension. Certainly, any upstream color or thought repetition may alter thought patterns resulting in an unhealthy thought process. What I'm curious about, be ye ritual practitioner, artist, investigator or witness, is whether or not excessive dwelling on certain thoughts are more likely to induce psychosis or personal destabilization (Dale Spaur, Raymond Fowler, Antonin Artaud) than others. Perhaps this has not been your experience but I was curious, with regards to your own associations with Ostension, whether or not you may have encountered individuals working in some reenactments that may have been more seriously affected by say satantic rituals vs. making crop circles. This is an anecdotal question more than a quantitative one if that helps. You might also say it's all about the composition of the individual first, but again, different experiences do come with varying levels of intensity, no?

 

[DaveM]

More important events going on in the world than the so called Roswell Slides and thousands of children dieing of starvation , Missing 411 folks and will not lose sleep over the event.

I agree fully. If you trot a grey alien out onto the stage, I am all in. Finding two slides in a box after supposedly seventy years just doesn't cut it.

 

[Ostension]

Burnt State, I have experienced cognitive dissonance. In my case the causal factor was the status of the narrator combined with the narrative he was telling.

 

[George Wingfield]

George, why don't you just ask Lundberg this question directly? You evidently have cordial relations with him, so why wouldn't he tell you? That way you could pass the word along on ufo forums and blogs and save a lot of people the trouble of a trip to Mexico in May.

Unless it happens that you share Lundberg et al's 'wicked' sense of humor and are just messing with people?

Or perhaps perpetuating the legend of their boundless talents in perception management, for one unfathomable purpose or another?

Constance --Do you really think I would get a straight answer from John Lundberg? I did say that I would like to ask him about the so-called Roswell Slides and gave a phone number if that would be better done offline. Unsurprisingly that overture has been met with a deafening silence. I shall take that as confirmation this new Roswell hoax did indeed originate from him and Irving. And, if I did get any answer, it's very unlikely that he would tell me the truth.

The reason I know this is because I've seen it all before. Over 20 years ago I wrote articles saying exactly which well-known UK crop circles had been made by him and his friends. His policy and that of other circlefakers then was to admit they did make crop circles but NEVER admit that they had made any particular formation --especially not in those cases I'd accused them of. This policy was continued when they got into alienfaking with the infamous "Alien Autopsy" scam.

They called their nocturnal activities in the wheatfields of Wiltshire "circlemaking" and insisted that it was art --crop art. It could be considered art, I suppose, but I used to call it circlefaking since its main purpose was one of deception --deception of the croppies and others who came to wonder at these mysterious productions. Here, rather than a new art form, was a new PMD (perception management device). Further "PMDs" would lead to ufofaking and alienfaking --which is naturally what followed.

Of course there are many other folk from whom you will seldom get a straight answer. Back in the 1980s when I asked the question whether nuclear weapons were stored by the USAF at RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge (near Rendlesham Forest) the official response was "We can neither confirm nor deny that nuclear weapons are kept at these bases". I took that to be a definite YES, and obviously some people began to realize that it was far better not to give any response at all to my embarrassing direct questions.

I should at this point state my own position which is very far from that of the PMD merchants. I may be old-fashioned or naive but my only interest when it comes to crop circles, UFOs, cattle mutilations, or alleged alien corpses, is in the truth of the matter. That is probably best found by a CSI-style approach which should be taken if at all possible. Sometimes a mystery will remain unsolved but that's very often the case with real crime. There are some UFO investigators who are interested in finding the truth but sadly there are a whole lot more who have made up their minds already and only look for validation of their extraterrestrial UFO beliefs. These folk are often easy prey for circlefakers, ufofakers, alienfakers and the like.

Finally, I wonder how many of you have cottoned on to what "Ostension" is and the reason why John Lundberg calls himself this on this forum which he joined only very recently to see what was being said about the Roswell Slides. Having lived many years ago in Holy Catholic Ireland I am very aware that "ostension" is the displaying of the sacrament at the altar during the mass so that it could receive the adoration of the communicants who have come up from the congregation. In these secular days some may be unaware that the sacrament is the bread (or communion wafer) and the wine that communicants receive. Transubstantiation is the change whereby, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, the bread and wine used for the communion sacrament become --in actual reality-- the body and the blood of Christ.

Not that many people, even Catholics, actually believe this today, but the parallel here to the displaying of a "genuine" alien body --or at least a blurry photographic slide of one-- at a meeting of Roswellian UFO True Believers in Mexico City is not lost on some of us. That's a real piece of Perception Management for you --if it comes off-- and this exercise will, we assume, fill the coffers of celebrated UFO prophet Jaime Maussan.

George

 

[Constance]

I should at this point state my own position which is very far from that of the PMD merchants. I may be old-fashioned or naive but my only interest when it comes to crop circles, UFOs, cattle mutilations, or alleged alien corpses, is in the truth of the matter.

I hope you don't feel like the Lone Ranger, George. I've got to go out shortly but will return later to respond to more of your post.