The Socialism Experiment

[Shugi]

I guess someone who owns the source, the CIa World Factbook, has to answer that.

Here we got appearently a table of only the private donations as percentage of GDP (of only 21 nations):
The Lippard Blog: Most generous countries

A very interesting point is also that "aid" is not always the same - it depends how much of the money is actually used effectively:
("phantom aid" it is not genuinely available to poor countries to fight poverty.) According to that, the number of dollars the US spends is of course very high, but much is "lost" due to over-priced, ineffective technical assistance and oor donor co-ordination etc.

US and Foreign Aid Assistance — Global Issues

Not to forget, coming back to the topic of the thread somehow: no matter if the countries are leaning more to the capitalist or the socialist view: the US and Europe are spending directly and indirectly probably much more money to help their own agriculture and exporting industries then on help for the "third world" - which hurts the developing countries extremely imho.

 

[Ron Collins]

Re: The Capitalism Experiment -

OK, got to balance this out a bit.


Take a set of students (Set A), and give them a task, a puzzle to solve and go away -

and leave them to it.

Take another set of students (Set B), and give them a task, a puzzle to solve, go away and tell them you will give them $75USD for there efforts.

Watch both sets of students behind a hidden screen -

Set A - will show more enthusiasm and interest in the task at hand.
Set B - knowing that there "earning" there work will start looking out the window, whistling, or reading the newspaper.

Are you kidding me? You say the word "students" and then you say "$75" for solving a puzzle or doing a task. I have no idea what school you went to but a group of students sitting in class suddenly confronted with the possibility of quickly gaining beer money will ellict a response.

I understand it was supposed to be a parable but it just doesn't work. Especially if we are talking about western culture. Your story assumes these students have some essoteric will to discover that will drive them to success. Personally, I'd bet on the beer seekers. Short term goals with short term rewards.

Option A -- Work for 1 company for 10 years and get seniority and keep getting you COLA + the usual 3% to 8% yearly salary increase. Maybe every 6 or 7 years there is a chance for a promotion pushing you up 12% to 18%. Then retire at 67 with a pension.

Option B -- Hire a head hunter to find you a position. Work for no company longer than 3 years. Instead of promotion (typically seen as 5% pay increase and 50% responsibility increase) push for new stronger sounding title. Parlay new title into more money at next job swtch. Make big fast money with no security or loyalty shown or recieved. Sure its volitile but the next job is just around the corner. Retire between 67 and 80 depending on your debt.

My grandparents were option A. They survived the Great Depression, WWII, and Korea. They planned ahead out of habitual necessity.

Option B is the majority of white collar western culture. Its now now. What? The future? Shit man, I got 401K!

 

[Ron Collins]

I have been reading in this thread about how capitalism is good or bad. Or about how america is capitalist. It is an irrelevent discussion in my opinion. Sure maybe in the 50's to the 70's it might have been largely capitalist tendencies in wetern culture, but then something happened. America, and all of westernized culture and part of eastern culture, turned to global consumerism.

Classic capitalism was when a private company produced, marketed, distributed and delivered its own product. If that company faltered, it fell by the wayside and the next company slipped in to fill the void. Classic capitialism is dead.

It died with the advent of the internet. It died when economic boundries superseded political ones. When companies found it more profitable to farm out tasks to 3rd party venders. We are a global economy based on consumption to drive all markets. If one company starts to falter, it affects other companies in other industries that may have the most tenuous of connections. If an industry experiences big issues (say banking or insurance) the effects can be a snowball effect through hundreds of others completely changing the economic topography of the entire planet.

Forget past economic theory its all ancient history. It is no longer about political interest, religion, sex, ethnicity or whatever. People stop consuming and we got problems. World wide problems. Money is the great enabler to this ravenous consumerism. Thus, its all about the money and the sooner you realize that the better off you'll be.

 

[CapnG]

It died with the advent of the internet. It died when economic boundries superseded political ones. When companies found it more profitable to farm out tasks to 3rd party venders.

Doesn't that speak to the very heart of capitalism though? What's more purely capitalistic than maximizing profits while limiting costs?

You see, I think part of the problem with the American notion of capitalism is that people seem to suffer from the illusion that it means being "loyal" to America. As you say, it's all about the money but the thing is it's ALWAYS been all about the money, it's got nothing to do with the developments of recent times.

 

[Roro]

Sorry, i don't think thats true anymore, although it probably was in the 50s and 60s, and maybe even during the whole Cold War, but there imho also due to strategic interests. The actual numbers per capita seem to look more like this:

Most Generous Countries

I went to the CIA Factbook, which your link cites as it's source, and could not confirm my assumption (couldn't find this ranking list) but I think this list of most generous countries is refering to foreign aid that the governments of the listed countries give. I believe if you looked at how much private individuals donate to charity from their private funds you would still find the United States at or near the top.

 

[Drew UK]

I have been reading in this thread about how capitalism is good or bad. Or about how america is capitalist. It is an irrelevent discussion in my opinion. Sure maybe in the 50's to the 70's it might have been largely capitalist tendencies in wetern culture, but then something happened. America, and all of westernized culture and part of eastern culture, turned to global consumerism.

Classic capitalism was when a private company produced, marketed, distributed and delivered its own product. If that company faltered, it fell by the wayside and the next company slipped in to fill the void. Classic capitialism is dead.

It died with the advent of the internet. It died when economic boundries superseded political ones. When companies found it more profitable to farm out tasks to 3rd party venders. We are a global economy based on consumption to drive all markets. If one company starts to falter, it affects other companies in other industries that may have the most tenuous of connections. If an industry experiences big issues (say banking or insurance) the effects can be a snowball effect through hundreds of others completely changing the economic topography of the entire planet.

Forget past economic theory its all ancient history. It is no longer about political interest, religion, sex, ethnicity or whatever. People stop consuming and we got problems. World wide problems. Money is the great enabler to this ravenous consumerism. Thus, its all about the money and the sooner you realize that the better off you'll be.

Excellent comment!! - I can't agree with this totally, but the hidden point is well illustrated - and I want to know more.

Keep going, can you expand on your last sentence - "Its all about the money......?"


Just remember your doing it for free.

(i hate these smilies, but it does seem so effective in scriptual communication, another point I need to address soon:exclamation

 

[g.gibson]

Just in case you're tempted by the Lese faire capitalism tempered only by 'reasoned self interest':

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