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The Spiricom Device
- Thread starter cottonzway
- Start date
Free episodes:
Schuyler
Misanthrope
I'm not going to be able to pin it down for you, but I remember reading that it has been done, but that it did not work.
Very interesting, UVI. I thought he was really defensive about his own background on the Binnall program. He also really slammed the podcast Ghostly Talk which I thought was kind of out of line because his comments were more of a personal nature (I believe he called them names) as opposed to stating why he didn't think the show was useful.
I still think that the points he brought up about the Spiricom was good. It wouldn't have mattered to me if it came from an elementary school teacher or a university professor.
How did you find that stuff out?
I still think that the points he brought up about the Spiricom was good. It wouldn't have mattered to me if it came from an elementary school teacher or a university professor.
How did you find that stuff out?
mentionedk
Paranormal Novice
Hm, I agree, but you better look at this point of view http://sourceradix.com/m/tue.html
I am the journalist in question who has obtained the "Spiricom tapes" that were broadcasted in 2004. on Art Bell's Coast to Coast and after that the modern debate of Spiricom has started. This is the show in question:
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2004/10/31.html
http://tinyurl.com/nw35ag
Of course George Meek's tape presentation is now widely available in public domain and directly available from ITC as I could see in the recent years.
I am monitoring with interest that Spiricom debate is still going on. I think that dr. Stephen Rorke's research has pointed to important elements of the story and this kind of contribution is needed.
One of my collagues from the States has sent me few days ago snail mail package with some radio shows from the 80's. One of the interviews was done with George Meek at the time...presented audio clips during the interview are already mostly in the public domain, altough one or a two clips I think I haven't heard before. Meek has also mentioned that one team in Germany (name of the researcher is mentioned - have to check up later exact name) is trying to reproduce Spiricom results at the time and maybe it could be good lead to follow up for some new information that could came out of it.
I will see with some EVP researchers that I cooperated before what could be done with that altough that domain is not my primary work of interest but I am glad to help with data.
Best Wishes
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2004/10/31.html
http://tinyurl.com/nw35ag
Of course George Meek's tape presentation is now widely available in public domain and directly available from ITC as I could see in the recent years.
I am monitoring with interest that Spiricom debate is still going on. I think that dr. Stephen Rorke's research has pointed to important elements of the story and this kind of contribution is needed.
One of my collagues from the States has sent me few days ago snail mail package with some radio shows from the 80's. One of the interviews was done with George Meek at the time...presented audio clips during the interview are already mostly in the public domain, altough one or a two clips I think I haven't heard before. Meek has also mentioned that one team in Germany (name of the researcher is mentioned - have to check up later exact name) is trying to reproduce Spiricom results at the time and maybe it could be good lead to follow up for some new information that could came out of it.
I will see with some EVP researchers that I cooperated before what could be done with that altough that domain is not my primary work of interest but I am glad to help with data.
Best Wishes
Jose Collado
Skilled Investigator
The Spiricom and any spinoff (lack of)technology are bunk. Firstly, the fact George Meek and Bill O'Neil claim they communicated with their "spirit friends" in order to build the device is ludicrous. How exactly did they communicate with their "spirit friends"? Obviously not with the Spiricom due to it not even existing. If they did indeed communicate with their "spirit friends" then why did they even need the Spiricom? Surely they could gather enough information to establish some solid argument supporting their ability to communicate.
So they claim they contacted Dr George Mueller, a deceased NASA scientist. Why NASA? If this scientist did indeed possess the ability to produce a device to communicate with the dead then why didn't he create it while he was alive?
Now it's claimed Dr George Jeffries Mueller died in 1967 when in fact he resigned from NASA in 1969. So correct me if I'm wrong, but if they communicated with Dr George Mueller, then he'd have to be dead right? It's alleged the Spiricom tapes span 1979 to 1982 and both George Meek and Bill O'Neil communicated with Mueller. The problem is, Mueller wasn't dead. If you read up on Mueller's history, it's virtually impossible they communicated with him when he's been alive and well.
Are they referring to another NASA scientist by the name of Dr George Mueller?
The whole EVP scene is another thing I won't go into.
So they claim they contacted Dr George Mueller, a deceased NASA scientist. Why NASA? If this scientist did indeed possess the ability to produce a device to communicate with the dead then why didn't he create it while he was alive?
Now it's claimed Dr George Jeffries Mueller died in 1967 when in fact he resigned from NASA in 1969. So correct me if I'm wrong, but if they communicated with Dr George Mueller, then he'd have to be dead right? It's alleged the Spiricom tapes span 1979 to 1982 and both George Meek and Bill O'Neil communicated with Mueller. The problem is, Mueller wasn't dead. If you read up on Mueller's history, it's virtually impossible they communicated with him when he's been alive and well.
Are they referring to another NASA scientist by the name of Dr George Mueller?
The whole EVP scene is another thing I won't go into.
Thanks Jose for the input.
If Mueller indeed left NASA in 1969, I guess the supporters of the story will introduce now theory of the "3 Muellers"
By the way could you please send me the source of Mueller biography connected with 1969 - I didn't noticed that "debate about 1969" inside EVP community as I am not following their scene so often.
About "two Muellers" - debate is going on for some time - here are some clashed points that I am aware from last few years:
Alleged biography:
http://www.ghostlytalk.com/files/haroldshermanspiricom.pdf
Debate:
http://www.spiricomstudy.com/files/10b.3-I.pdf
http://www.itcbridge.com/forum/view_topic.php?id=369&forum_id=30
http://www.43things.com/entries/view/1137265
http://ecommons.library.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/3586/17/045_14.pdf
http://www.spinvestigations.org/Ghost_Boxes.pdf
Thanks Annie for clarification - as I can see there are lots of fractions I guess as in any field. I think that most important link is a link below Clark's where the discovery of original Mueller has mentioned. I am also interested in claims and sources that original Mueller died in 1969 (not in 1967)?
I know for Mark's work and I have listened some of his interviews. What is your opinion about dr. Stepehen Rorke's analysis and investigation so far?
By the way I have sucessfully established contact with the radio host yesterday in LA who knew George Meek and had Meek as a guest in his radio shows during 80s - there are some leads in the interview that I intend to follow up when I catch some time altough as I said it is not my primary work of interest but I do follow it from time to time. I was in contact with some people from the field in the past.
Any information that you want to share I am very curious to listen about the topic.
Best Wishes and thanks once more.
Jose Collado
Skilled Investigator
Here's a link to some of the information Dr George Jeffries Mueller
Hi Jose...I know see what you mean...I though that the Mueller in Wikipedia link has been disputed as a George E. Mueller and not alleged original George J: Mueller from the Spiricom story.
Even dr. Rorke at the end saw that there are two Muellers altough there is a dispute has original Mueller ever worked at NASA.
See this link and update at the end of page:
http://www.spiricomstudy.com/files/10b.3-I.pdf
I was able to find alleged certifikate of the original J. Mueller and it seems that the date of death (1967) matches the original story.
http://www.spiricomstudy.com/files/9f.pdf
Altough as I can see there is dispute has original Mueller ever worked in NASA as it is claimed in the story in the first place.
atomic_annie
Skilled Investigator
Lol, just read that TWO GEORGE’S TOO MANY pdf By James Hale, with Dr.Stephen Rorke and I'm glad Rorke was able to resolve that issue. I've only been interested in the tones used in Spiricom and for awhile there I was experimenting with that... lol, we all were.
But I have not kept up with the "Spiricom Story" so I'm reviewing over that material again today including Dr. Rorkes research and I'll comment on it later.
I personally would love to work with someone who possesses the capabilities to reconstruct a Spiricom and then try it out.
I think part of the reason why the success of Meek and O'Neils' Spiricom has never been replicated is because those who are building Spiricoms have failed to line up an evp recorder whose "mediumship abilities through electronics" was as strong as O'Neil's ablities in this area.
I suspect that those who have failed were people who were not very good at recording evp's anyway hence why they are always experimenting with electronic gizmo's and gadgets to see if something new and different using different combo's and so on... will work better for them.
So you have someone like this who is not very good at recording evp just doing it the traditional way, which is simply using a tape recorder, who now has built a Spiricom unit exactly as specified by Meek, who unfortunately finds out that it's not working for him once its built.
What they fail to do is search for a good EVP recorder who has strong spirit contacts who can do what O'Neil's spirit contacts were able to do -- and that is give that evp recorder some tips on how to tweek and improve the electronics of the Spiricom in such a way that works best with the evp recorder and those intelligences he's in contact with. It's a very individual thing when it comes to the technical aspects of EVP and ITC. If you don't have any spirit contacts giving you technical suggestions on what you can do to help improve communications on your end, then you are not going to get the Spiricom to work right. One has to remember that the Spiricom was designed specifically for O'Neil's own unique electro-bio-energy/brain or what ever. And those intelligences also had their own unique "energy". Those intelligences are supposed to be there to help direct the design and implementation of the "electronic communication unit" that the evp recorder will be using in his EVP sessions. So the bottom line is, unless there's a good evp recorder available who has strong connections to those intelligences he's in contact with, the Spiricom is not going to work because once it's built, it still needs to be tweeked to those specifications that meet the requirements of both parties involved; the evp recorder and the intelligences he's working with.
Jose Collado
Skilled Investigator
Then it would be safe to assume they never made contact with Dr Mueller who was employed as NASA. It must be another Dr Mueller. The imaginary kind. Anyone got any info on the Dr Mueller they allege to speak with? All I can find it the Dr Mueller who was alive and well during these recording.
atomic_annie
Skilled Investigator
The source to the above quote can be found in the first link provided by uforadio in his post on this page. It's located in red at the end of the essay by S. Rorke on that link.
Jose Collado
Skilled Investigator
I found him. Mueller worked at Cornell University. How convenient! Two Muellers! I'm sold!
"All of the obscure personal data allegedly communicated by Mueller was said to have come to O’Neil in psychic visions" - Oh my god, I'm going to vomit blood.
"Bill O’Neil described Dr. Mueller as having blue eyes and this detail was later verified by Mueller’s widow" - Mueller’s eyes were brown, woops.
Some interesting information on O'Neil...
1 Bill O’Neil had once sought psychiatric care for a mental breakdown that he associated with his psychic experiences.
2 He continually questioned his own sanity, and he often wondered if the “ghosts” he was conversing with were real.
3 At times he referred to himself as having split personalities.
4 He was struggling to make ends meet financially, and the small monetary compensation he received from George Meek was his only steady source of income during the Spiricom years.
5 Meek provided O’Neil with a car and Meek held the mortgage on O’Neil’s house - a house which O’Neil continued to live in even after it had been severely damaged by a suspicious fire.
6 Bill O’Neil dabbled in both the arts and creative writing.
7 O'Neil had once hosted a children’s TV show in Cincinnati, and he enjoyed entertaining children with his talent as a ventriloquist.
I find it interesting that no thorough testing of this device has been done...well, I mean apart from the proponents of the device. No quantifiable proof has been documented. Unfortunately, these devices easily receive interference and due to the meshing of unstablefrequencies, create beat frequencies in the audio range that often make some sense.
My opinion: bunk.
"All of the obscure personal data allegedly communicated by Mueller was said to have come to O’Neil in psychic visions" - Oh my god, I'm going to vomit blood.
"Bill O’Neil described Dr. Mueller as having blue eyes and this detail was later verified by Mueller’s widow" - Mueller’s eyes were brown, woops.
Some interesting information on O'Neil...
1 Bill O’Neil had once sought psychiatric care for a mental breakdown that he associated with his psychic experiences.
2 He continually questioned his own sanity, and he often wondered if the “ghosts” he was conversing with were real.
3 At times he referred to himself as having split personalities.
4 He was struggling to make ends meet financially, and the small monetary compensation he received from George Meek was his only steady source of income during the Spiricom years.
5 Meek provided O’Neil with a car and Meek held the mortgage on O’Neil’s house - a house which O’Neil continued to live in even after it had been severely damaged by a suspicious fire.
6 Bill O’Neil dabbled in both the arts and creative writing.
7 O'Neil had once hosted a children’s TV show in Cincinnati, and he enjoyed entertaining children with his talent as a ventriloquist.
I find it interesting that no thorough testing of this device has been done...well, I mean apart from the proponents of the device. No quantifiable proof has been documented. Unfortunately, these devices easily receive interference and due to the meshing of unstablefrequencies, create beat frequencies in the audio range that often make some sense.
My opinion: bunk.
atomic_annie
Skilled Investigator
I'm having problems with this case too but not for the same reasons you are. I won't even go into those issues that concern me because it's stuff that only a long time ITC researcher would understand and know about but I will say that Dr. S Rorke is a big believer in the ITC/EVP phenomenon. It was because of his interest in this area that drew him to the Spiricom case.
But he did lose out big when he finally had to admit that O'Neil's Mueller was a different Mueller than the one he claims he thought it was. Because of this, all of his information on anything having to do with this case needs to be confirmed and verified from here on....
Very intriguing case and I'm looking forward to his book on this -- it should be out soon.
But he did lose out big when he finally had to admit that O'Neil's Mueller was a different Mueller than the one he claims he thought it was. Because of this, all of his information on anything having to do with this case needs to be confirmed and verified from here on....
Very intriguing case and I'm looking forward to his book on this -- it should be out soon.
Schuyler
Misanthrope
I actually corresponded with Meek years ago in the seventies in a series of letters. The Spricom book was even then out of print. I borrowed it from him and made my own copy. I also have the cassette tapes. Both are available easily on the Net today. So much for my 'stewardship' in trying to preserve them.
Whatever you think of this whole thing, the tapes are worth a listen. They are extremely pedantic and detailed, discussing such things as what type of resistor to place at a given point on the device to enhance the sound and the effects of broccoli on the human digestive system. They aren't the least bit sensationalistic. Whoever was 'talking' in them had a detailed knowledge of electronics.
It seemed to me that Meek himself was somewhat naive and credulous. His view of the world was not atypical, but he seemed overwhelmed by the 'wonder of it all' and how small he was compared to the vastness of the universe. He's the kind of guy who would have picked up the Urantia Book and felt it had deep meaning. I hope I'm not being unfair to him, but that was my impression.
I'm actually intrigued at the idea, but disturbed that a 'sensitive' must be present. That kind of ruins it for me. The device itself is very similar to old 'boat anchor' HAM radios, big and clunky with tubes. In today's environment of integrated circuits the thing could be built the size of a cell phone. I'm not sure that approach as a design is the best or only way, but all things being equal, including the possibility that there's anything or anyone at all to really listen to, I don't see why such a device, in principle, could not be constructed. It would put an entirely new spin on 'Calling up Mom.'
Whatever you think of this whole thing, the tapes are worth a listen. They are extremely pedantic and detailed, discussing such things as what type of resistor to place at a given point on the device to enhance the sound and the effects of broccoli on the human digestive system. They aren't the least bit sensationalistic. Whoever was 'talking' in them had a detailed knowledge of electronics.
It seemed to me that Meek himself was somewhat naive and credulous. His view of the world was not atypical, but he seemed overwhelmed by the 'wonder of it all' and how small he was compared to the vastness of the universe. He's the kind of guy who would have picked up the Urantia Book and felt it had deep meaning. I hope I'm not being unfair to him, but that was my impression.
I'm actually intrigued at the idea, but disturbed that a 'sensitive' must be present. That kind of ruins it for me. The device itself is very similar to old 'boat anchor' HAM radios, big and clunky with tubes. In today's environment of integrated circuits the thing could be built the size of a cell phone. I'm not sure that approach as a design is the best or only way, but all things being equal, including the possibility that there's anything or anyone at all to really listen to, I don't see why such a device, in principle, could not be constructed. It would put an entirely new spin on 'Calling up Mom.'
About 2 Muellers:
Also the picture of George E. Mueller, NASA scientist from Wikipedia link is clearly different person then the Spiricom's Mueller (at least at that picture).
As reported in my links above, Jaime Machado has found “Cornell Alumni News” from January 14 of 1943 here:
http://dspace.library.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/3586/17/045_14.pdf
Machado reports:
"...on page 5 of the pdf (177 on the paper), you will see a picture with the “CORNELLIAN TECHNICIANS AT PICATINNY ARSENAL” ; “Technical group at the Government Arsenal near Dover, N. J.“. And regarding the picture, it reads “Left to right in the back row above are George J. Mueller, PhD ‘33, former instructor in Physics, chief of the physical research section. The man in the picture is the same that is on the SPIRICOM report. And we can read in the biography of Dr. George J. Mueller (in the same report) that he was “Physicist and chief, research laboratory, Picatinny Arsenal, Dover, N.J., between 1935 and 1950.
---snip---
I also found a paper by Dr. George J. Mueller when he was in the “Cornell University, Ithaca, New York “: http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v45/i5/p314_1
It was published in 1934 and is entitled “The Distribution of Initial Velocities of Positive Ions from Tungsten”. Again it checks with the biography of the SPIRICOM report, which states that he was “Research fellow, Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y.” from 1933 to 1935."
--- end of Machado's report ---
So the theory of 2 Muellers was resolved altough other points are still opened to debate, of course.
Alegedlly there was a team in Germany who was able to replicate some of the results ... I am trying to verify that and that lead could give some of the insights too.
In a soft connection I can remember that somewhere in the end of 80s (or beginning of 90s) the european television RTL conducted live session with some machine similar as Spiricom where alleged contact with mother and deciesed son was established. Unfortunataley I can't offered any additional details besides my foggy memory of this event and few rare references of some researchers that during the years I heard about that same event - but I will try to find are there any references and was it connected somehow with Spiricom. I have all those leads and names somewhere in my files - just have to take one day and try to put it all together to see is it possible to find participants and to ask them about the events.
About RTL event I just made a quick search and find one reference here:
Source: Fortean Times Magazine | The world of strange phenomena
--- snip ---
Hans Otto Koenig, like Meek, wished to get beyond the cumbersome method of playing back tapes in the hope of finding spirit voices, and instead developed his ‘field generators’, using ultrasound signals (see FT153:30-35) at 20-40 kHz, to ‘boost’ the ‘live’ voices which then came through a complex electronic system. In 1982, he carried out a well supervised experiment on live television, presented by major network RTL’s Rainer Holbe, who did much to increase European awareness of EVP. Koenig’s ultra-sound device was set up under the supervision of the station’s engineers, connected to speakers and switched on. After a few seconds, a clear voice was heard to say: “Otto Koenig makes wireless with the dead.” The engineers declared there was no evidence of fraud.
--- end of paste ---
Altough I am not sure is it the same TV event that I am refering too. Anyway there are some paths and leads that could be taken about that interesting story - what ever the resolution will be at the end.
Also the picture of George E. Mueller, NASA scientist from Wikipedia link is clearly different person then the Spiricom's Mueller (at least at that picture).
As reported in my links above, Jaime Machado has found “Cornell Alumni News” from January 14 of 1943 here:
http://dspace.library.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/3586/17/045_14.pdf
Machado reports:
"...on page 5 of the pdf (177 on the paper), you will see a picture with the “CORNELLIAN TECHNICIANS AT PICATINNY ARSENAL” ; “Technical group at the Government Arsenal near Dover, N. J.“. And regarding the picture, it reads “Left to right in the back row above are George J. Mueller, PhD ‘33, former instructor in Physics, chief of the physical research section. The man in the picture is the same that is on the SPIRICOM report. And we can read in the biography of Dr. George J. Mueller (in the same report) that he was “Physicist and chief, research laboratory, Picatinny Arsenal, Dover, N.J., between 1935 and 1950.
---snip---
I also found a paper by Dr. George J. Mueller when he was in the “Cornell University, Ithaca, New York “: http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v45/i5/p314_1
It was published in 1934 and is entitled “The Distribution of Initial Velocities of Positive Ions from Tungsten”. Again it checks with the biography of the SPIRICOM report, which states that he was “Research fellow, Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y.” from 1933 to 1935."
--- end of Machado's report ---
So the theory of 2 Muellers was resolved altough other points are still opened to debate, of course.
Alegedlly there was a team in Germany who was able to replicate some of the results ... I am trying to verify that and that lead could give some of the insights too.
In a soft connection I can remember that somewhere in the end of 80s (or beginning of 90s) the european television RTL conducted live session with some machine similar as Spiricom where alleged contact with mother and deciesed son was established. Unfortunataley I can't offered any additional details besides my foggy memory of this event and few rare references of some researchers that during the years I heard about that same event - but I will try to find are there any references and was it connected somehow with Spiricom. I have all those leads and names somewhere in my files - just have to take one day and try to put it all together to see is it possible to find participants and to ask them about the events.
About RTL event I just made a quick search and find one reference here:
Source: Fortean Times Magazine | The world of strange phenomena
--- snip ---
Hans Otto Koenig, like Meek, wished to get beyond the cumbersome method of playing back tapes in the hope of finding spirit voices, and instead developed his ‘field generators’, using ultrasound signals (see FT153:30-35) at 20-40 kHz, to ‘boost’ the ‘live’ voices which then came through a complex electronic system. In 1982, he carried out a well supervised experiment on live television, presented by major network RTL’s Rainer Holbe, who did much to increase European awareness of EVP. Koenig’s ultra-sound device was set up under the supervision of the station’s engineers, connected to speakers and switched on. After a few seconds, a clear voice was heard to say: “Otto Koenig makes wireless with the dead.” The engineers declared there was no evidence of fraud.
--- end of paste ---
Altough I am not sure is it the same TV event that I am refering too. Anyway there are some paths and leads that could be taken about that interesting story - what ever the resolution will be at the end.
Jose Collado
Skilled Investigator
There could be one Mueller. There could be two. There could be fifty thousand. At this stage, the Spiricom has avoided being tested thoroughly by people outside of the Spiricom cheer squad.
Once that happens, I'll be glad to accept anything that follows the protocols of proof. Until then, allegedly parroting information from someone who's deceased which can be accessed easily by many means isn't exactly supportive evidence.
I've heard samples from the tapes. I'm not impressed. How long will they bleed this device until they actually let someone test it thoroughly.
The Spiricon follows suit with many of it's spin off "communication" gadgets. None of which have been accepted by anyone outside of the paranormal circles they reside in.
Once that happens, I'll be glad to accept anything that follows the protocols of proof. Until then, allegedly parroting information from someone who's deceased which can be accessed easily by many means isn't exactly supportive evidence.
I've heard samples from the tapes. I'm not impressed. How long will they bleed this device until they actually let someone test it thoroughly.
The Spiricon follows suit with many of it's spin off "communication" gadgets. None of which have been accepted by anyone outside of the paranormal circles they reside in.
Schuyler
Misanthrope
I agree with you completely, Jose, but the issue of Mueller has been used to debunk the story (not the device) by many over the years who made a big deal about it, pointing out deception and fraud. Now, when it turns out there was no problem and no deception with regard to Mueller, that he existed as he was portrayed, complete with at least some documentation and recognizable pictures of him, now, suddenly, Mueller doesn't matter.
Debunkers are very much like politicians. They'll say and do anything to cast their opponent in a bad light, true or not. It doesn't matter because winning is the only goal. If they had to measure up to the same standards they demand of their opponents, they fail just as miserably, as this issue shows.
Debunkers are very much like politicians. They'll say and do anything to cast their opponent in a bad light, true or not. It doesn't matter because winning is the only goal. If they had to measure up to the same standards they demand of their opponents, they fail just as miserably, as this issue shows.
atomic_annie
Skilled Investigator
I think it's fair to say that even in forums like this one, when one is introduced to such big and loud results as what we are seeing in the Spiricom case, it seems to initiate an 'ostrich in the sand syndrome', where such large and immediate (even shocking) recounts including tangible evidence in terms of audio's and visual's from such experimentations seem too large a fit for their existing paradigm. And even though ostensibly they appear to be interested in researching the paranormal, some are deeply ambivalent about exploring those results and physical evidence in area's that fall outside of their own experiences; especially in those area's of extraordinary phenomena that are outside of those phenomenons they are primarily focusing on.
So just saying that although I take umbrage at some of the things that Jose is saying about the Spiricom case, I nevertheless know exactly where he's coming from because before I ever accidently stumbled on the evp phenomenon some 20 yrs ago, I never would have believed that unseen intelligences can communicate to us in various ways through electronic devices. And for me, the same goes for UFOs. If I had never seen one myself, I would still be "on the fence" about them because I'm one of those people who have to see or experience something before I can acknowledge that such things exist.
And even in the field that I've been focusing on all these years where sometimes I even get extraordinary results in my experimentations -- but based on my research too, I know that a huge chunk of those who are experimenting in ITC are interpreting this phenomenon in an extremely subjective manner. But I don't blame them because it's too scary to venture out and acknowledge and explore those other
aspects of this phenomenon that clearly point to "something" else that's playing an enormous part in the scheme of things that most of them consciously choose to be in denial about. I think that's a real shame because by doing so, they are negating a reality that co-exists with our own and the nature of those intelligences need to be examined to the best of our abilities. And why should we do this? Because it's there.8)
So just saying that although I take umbrage at some of the things that Jose is saying about the Spiricom case, I nevertheless know exactly where he's coming from because before I ever accidently stumbled on the evp phenomenon some 20 yrs ago, I never would have believed that unseen intelligences can communicate to us in various ways through electronic devices. And for me, the same goes for UFOs. If I had never seen one myself, I would still be "on the fence" about them because I'm one of those people who have to see or experience something before I can acknowledge that such things exist.
And even in the field that I've been focusing on all these years where sometimes I even get extraordinary results in my experimentations -- but based on my research too, I know that a huge chunk of those who are experimenting in ITC are interpreting this phenomenon in an extremely subjective manner. But I don't blame them because it's too scary to venture out and acknowledge and explore those other
aspects of this phenomenon that clearly point to "something" else that's playing an enormous part in the scheme of things that most of them consciously choose to be in denial about. I think that's a real shame because by doing so, they are negating a reality that co-exists with our own and the nature of those intelligences need to be examined to the best of our abilities. And why should we do this? Because it's there.8)