This Sums Up 9-11 in 5 Minutes

[Ron Collins]

Intelligent and insightful comments have a time and a place. This topic is not deserving of them.

I could not disagree with this more. Personally, I don't think that these things equate a government sponsored murder of 3000+ people. But to say that the subject is not deserving of "Intelligent and insightful comments" is an asinine statement to make. There are unanswered questions. There were dubious actions taken. If you can't see that, you aren't looking. I think it is fair to question the investigation and some of its findings. It may be unpopular and if taken too far in the wrong way it can be disquietingly offensive. But, I honestly do not think this particular thread has gone there.

---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ----------

you dont get it do you? why all the cover ups if there is nothing to hide?

Don't be naive. its Washington. CYA for mundane events happens hourly. Personally, I lean more towards the multiple and individual CYA events are probably to blame for most of the fog in this. I just can't believe that any government would be capable of killing 3000+ of its citizenry in some grandly orchestrated conspiracy. I do acknowledge that there were weird things that happened. But, I would probably question it more if there were not some level of weirdness.

---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------



One more thing, what is that whole snorting of cocaine and pink haired stripper thing?

 

[trainedobserver]

I could not disagree with this more. Personally, I don't think that these things equate a government sponsored murder of 3000+ people. But to say that the subject is not deserving of "Intelligent and insightful comments" is an asinine statement to make. There are unanswered questions. There were dubious actions taken. If you can't see that, you aren't looking. I think it is fair to question the investigation and some of its findings. It may be unpopular and if taken too far in the wrong way it can be disquietingly offensive. But, I honestly do not think this particular thread has gone there.

The fact of the matter is that this thread has proven the sarcastic video maker's point entirely.

The subject is as toxic as UFOs if not more so.

There are many intelligent, thoughtful, informed, and concerned people who still have questions about many aspects of 911. It is just as silly for people to assume that those people automatically think its an inside job or that the government (as though it were some monolithic organization) was behind it as it for people to think anyone who has questions about UFOs believes they piloted by aliens.

Some people just need to grow up and get a perspective IMHO. That extends to both sides of the issue. Also, I still contend that discussing motivations of otherwise unknown or suspected conspirators to be counter-productive. I still am wondering just what in the hell really happened and why the investigation met such opposition.

 

[pixelsmith]

Don't be naive. its Washington. CYA for mundane events happens hourly. Personally, I lean more towards the multiple and individual CYA events are probably to blame for most of the fog in this. I just can't believe that any government would be capable of killing 3000+ of its citizenry in some grandly orchestrated conspiracy. I do acknowledge that there were weird things that happened. But, I would probably question it more if there were not some level of weirdness.

you have to realize our government answers to a higher government that has no problem killing millions of people. (war) The military industrial complex and the central banks are our government. Jefferson and Eisenhower among many others warned us of the very scenario we are currently in.

 

[Ron Collins]

you have to realize our government answers to a higher government that has no problem killing millions of people. (war) The military industrial complex and the central banks are our government. Jefferson and Eisenhower among many others warned us of the very scenario we are currently in. [/COLOR][/COLOR]

This is why you always loose me. Even when you sometimes make good points. This secret illuminati style government stuff goes too far for plausibility.

 

[pixelsmith]

This is why you always loose me. Even when you sometimes make good points. This secret illuminati style government stuff goes too far for plausibility.

but 3 towers symmetrically falling into their own footprint by office fires caused by 2 planes guided by incompetent pilots with box cutters who could barely fly a cessna is plausible to you? REALLY?!

 

[trainedobserver]

but 3 towers symmetrically falling into their own footprint by office fires caused by 2 planes guided by incompetent pilots with box cutters who could barely fly a cessna is plausible to you? REALLY?!

I think you're being too broad. Take one element and examine the plausibility of it. For example, the finding of hijackers Saeed Alghamdi and Satam Al Suqam's passports lying in the street on 9-12-01. How probable is it that these fellows passport survived the crash, fire, and collapse of the tower and was readily found within hours of the incident? That seems ...well, pretty damn improbable to me or am I just being overly skeptical? Is it a true story? Were the passports found? Apparently so.

 

[pixelsmith]

I think you're being too broad. Take one element and examine the plausibility of it. For example, the finding of hijackers Saeed Alghamdi and Satam Al Suqam's passports lying in the street on 9-12-01. How probable is it that these fellows passport survived the crash, fire, and collapse of the tower and was readily found within hours of the incident? That seems ...well, pretty damn improbable to me or am I just being overly skeptical? Is it a true story? Were the passports found? Apparently so.

what is so improbable about that? if an office fire can destroy a building exactly like a controlled demolition then what is so improbable about a passport flying out of the pocket of a terrorist then fly through an exploding aircraft and the resulting fireball then land unharmed on a street where it gets covered up by the rubble and pulverized concrete yet someone simply picked it up and returned it to the proper authorities... yup, that makes perfect sense to some people here.

 

[Ron Collins]

but 3 towers symmetrically falling into their own footprint by office fires caused by 2 planes guided by incompetent pilots with box cutters who could barely fly a cessna is plausible to you? REALLY?!

Yes. Flying a Jet airliner has a serious avionics advantage over a Cessna 172. You don't have to be a great stick man to fly it. You can turn knobs and enter things into the various computers and let the plane do the flying. these guys practiced on very realistic flight simulators and even had hours in full simulator cockpits. Therefore, I would say that a pilot that is a proficient systems manager could have used the flight systems to maneuvered the plane to a given position and then disengaged the automated systems near the end of the flight. Perhaps being on stick less than 2 minutes.

I keep hearing you throw this office fire stuff out there. It may have contributed but the towers where slammed into by massive jet airliners carrying a bunch of kinetic energy. As far as I am aware, we don't have a whole bunch of data on what happens to high rise towers when jumbo jets slam into them. You cant overlook the structural stress and damage aspects of this and simply boil it down to "Office Fires".

I get that members of the 911 commission itself do not like the findings or the manner in which the investigation was run. If that is your goal, to convince me that the investigation was not handled correctly then relax because I am there. But, if you are going to try and use this a stepping stone to prove that some massive illuminati style government was behind a plot to kill 300+ people to hide 2.3 Trillion dollars in stolen money, then I am far from convinced.

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 PM ----------

what is so improbable about that? if an office fire can destroy a building exactly like a controlled demolition then what is so improbable about a passport flying out of the pocket of a terrorist then fly through an exploding aircraft and the resulting fireball then land unharmed on a street where it gets covered up by the rubble and pulverized concrete yet someone simply picked it up and returned it to the proper authorities... yup, that makes perfect sense to some people here.

Listen I am not above saying that some level of CYA was at work here. Was it a little convenient that these passports were found but the black box wasn't? Yes. Is that f@#%^&g weird? Yes.

But, I think it more probable that the black boxes were recovered and in the confusion and incompetence that reigned they were misplaced. I also think it probable that these terrorists were on a watch list and were immediately recognized from the airline supplied passenger manifest. A decision to supply the media with a direction was probably undertaken to quickly identify the terrorists. I would bet that this was in hope of projecting a certain resolve, strength, and level of investigative prowess sufficient enough to send a message to the planners of the event. This is level conspiracy that I think exists in this case. To me that makes more sense than your grand Illuminati style cabal.

 

[trainedobserver]

As far as I am aware, we don't have a whole bunch of data on what happens to high rise towers when jumbo jets slam into them. You cant overlook the structural stress and damage aspects of this and simply boil it down to "Office Fires".

You make a very good point there Ron about the energy imparted by the crashing plane. If I'm not mistaken, the twin towers were designed to withstand being struck by an airliner going around 200 miles an hour. The planes that hit the twin towers were moving at more toward 600 miles an hour. I have also seen where those speeds have been questioned as some contend that exceeds the planes operating specs at that altitude.

 

[pixelsmith]

Yes. Flying a Jet airliner has a serious avionics advantage over a Cessna 172. You don't have to be a great stick man to fly it. You can turn knobs and enter things into the various computers and let the plane do the flying. these guys practiced on very realistic flight simulators and even had hours in full simulator cockpits. Therefore, I would say that a pilot that is a proficient systems manager could have used the flight systems to maneuvered the plane to a given position and then disengaged the automated systems near the end of the flight. Perhaps being on stick less than 2 minutes.

I keep hearing you throw this office fire stuff out there. It may have contributed but the towers where slammed into by massive jet airliners carrying a bunch of kinetic energy. As far as I am aware, we don't have a whole bunch of data on what happens to high rise towers when jumbo jets slam into them. You cant overlook the structural stress and damage aspects of this and simply boil it down to "Office Fires".

I get that members of the 911 commission itself do not like the findings or the manner in which the investigation was run. If that is your goal, to convince me that the investigation was not handled correctly then relax because I am there. But, if you are going to try and use this a stepping stone to prove that some massive illuminati style government was behind a plot to kill 300+ people to hide 2.3 Trillion dollars in stolen money, then I am far from convinced.

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 PM ----------



Listen I am not above saying that some level of CYA was at work here. Was it a little convenient that these passports were found but the black box wasn't? Yes. Is that f@#%^&g weird? Yes.

But, I think it more probable that the black boxes were recovered and in the confusion and incompetence that reigned they were misplaced. I also think it probable that these terrorists were on a watch list and were immediately recognized from the airline supplied passenger manifest. A decision to supply the media with a direction was probably undertaken to quickly identify the terrorists. I would bet that this was in hope of projecting a certain resolve, strength, and level of investigative prowess sufficient enough to send a message to the planners of the event. This is level conspiracy that I think exists in this case. To me that makes more sense than your grand Illuminati style cabal.

cool... i can fly a cessna too so it will be a piece of cake for me to get a commercial license. i have 2 close friends who fly jet airliners and they do not believe these guys could pull off what they did... especially the pentagon strike.

WTC 1 and 2 were designed to withstand multiple airliner strikes. The black smoke billowing out of the towers before they fell is an indication of a cold fire not a hot fire.

The plot was not to kill people in the tower, it was designed to be a pretext to war, destroy important documents (Enron, etc) in WTC 7 and the Pentagon (the missing 2.3 trillion dollars), put a few billion in the WTC owners pockets and among other things, usher in the patriot act.

---------- Post added at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:16 PM ----------

You make a very good point there Ron about the energy imparted by the crashing plane. If I'm not mistaken, the twin towers were designed to withstand being struck by an airliner going around 200 miles an hour. The planes that hit the twin towers were moving at more toward 600 miles an hour. I have also seen where those speeds have been questioned as some contend that exceeds the planes operating specs at that altitude.

Then one would expect the top of the tower(s) to lean towards the least resistance before it toppled, just like a camp fire crumbles as it is burning... note to self, keep an eye on my camp stove when it is burning, it may suddenly collapse in on itself.

---------- Post added at 06:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:21 PM ----------

Everybody seems to forget that crashing planes into skyscrapers was a scenario no one would have considered a possibility before 9/11. Logistics, long term planning and the novelty of transforming passenger jets into bombs made these horrific and inhuman events possible.

you could not be more wrong. there were numerous exercises going on that day involving that very scenario.
9-11 Research: War Games

Thankfully FEMA was there a day ahead of the attacks of 9/11
FEMA was in New York the Night Before 9/11

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Some quick thoughts on 9/11:

Building 7 - if i could find out how to make such a building fall into its own footprint without explosives i'd be a very rich man.
If we could rebuild 20 new towers for experimentation, how easy do you think it would be to make them fall down the same way with the same aircraft etc?
Try throwing a baseball as far as you can. Now try it with a passport. Not exactly aerodynamic are they? but we are supposed to believe that one of the hijackers' passports managed to avoid pulverisation, intense explosion and heat and find itself some distance away, unharmed? COME ON!
Bin Laden must have had a 'do not capture alive' order. Otherwise I'd have to believe the Navy's SEALs are useless. I, of course refuse to believe that. I would have thought that it would even have been acceptable to have several SEAL casualties for the intel INSIDE BIN LADENS BRAIN. Considering that his brain would be the only place with the real, good, useable intel it seems UTTERLY ABSURD to put a couple of bullets thru his brain, thereby rendering all hopes of intel from him nullified. I can only assume that WAS THE GOAL.
Also, The Warren Commission - OOPS! did I say 'Warren', I meant (I think) to say the 9/11 commission just did not answer the questions the families and rest of us need to hear.
Somebody once wisely said 'follow the money' - well we would but they destroyed the evidence......

A last thing: I am undecided on the whole 9/11 thing. I do not think it was the Bush administration etc who planned it, but there most certainly could have been a small band of like-minded powerful individuals who 'let it happen'.

 

[pixelsmith]

Thankfully, in 1999 FEMA had this handy guide to WTC disasters...

 

[trainedobserver]

In this video, fire-fighters, police, and other eye-witnesses describe hearing and seeing the effects of numerous explosions on 911 in news reports broadcast on 9/11. Interestingly enough, it ends with the mayor saying they knew of no additional explosions.

 

[pixelsmith]

In this video, fire-fighters, police, and other eye-witnesses describe hearing and seeing the effects of numerous explosions on 911 in news reports broadcast on 9/11. Interestingly enough, it ends with the mayor saying they knew of no additional explosions.

obviously they were hearing things. the Mayor didnt hear the explosions because he was in his terrorist attack command center that was built within building 7... oh wait... he was told to leave his command center because there was an office fire about to level that structure.

---------- Post added at 07:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

the believers of the official story here will not comment on this video because these first responders and people who were IN the building are all lying. the videos that captured the audio of the explosions are all fake as well... any comments on this video Angelo?

---------- Post added at 08:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 PM ----------

nothing like a bit of truth from actual witnesses to silence the skeptics here. i can't believe there are no comments yet on trainedobservers video...wtf?

but telling the truth can be deadly..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=bvay28lZiHU&NR=1

the public being sold the lie by main stream media..

 

[Angel of Ioren]

obviously they were hearing things. the Mayor didnt hear the explosions because he was in his terrorist attack command center that was built within building 7... oh wait... he was told to leave his command center because there was an office fire about to level that structure.

---------- Post added at 07:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

the believers of the official story here will not comment on this video because these first responders and people who were IN the building are all lying. the videos that captured the audio of the explosions are all fake as well... any comments on this video Angelo?

---------- Post added at 08:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 PM ----------

nothing like a bit of truth from actual witnesses to silence the skeptics here. i can't believe there are no comments yet on trainedobservers video...wtf?

but telling the truth can be deadly..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=bvay28lZiHU&NR=1

the public being sold the lie by main stream media..

You don't think an airplane crashing into a building with tons of flammable fuel will cause explosions?

As to my belief system: The "official" story is the best thing we have right now, but as Ron has said, it's far from perfect. I just get hung up on the whole controlled demolitions, NWO, the airplanes were empty, etc etc. That stuff just does not seem plausible to me.

 

[pixelsmith]

Angelo it is obvious you did not watch the video about explosions. I am no rocket scientist but I am pretty sure "flammable fuel" only explodes once.

 

[trainedobserver]

You don't think an airplane crashing into a building with tons of flammable fuel will cause explosions?

Certainly, but is that what is being described in the video? You did watch it before you commented on it didn't you? What's the point?

I think the point is, "Shut up!" "Don't question the official 9/11 story!"

I get it Angelo.

 

[pixelsmith]

he can't be bothered by a bunch of lying first responders, eye witnesses and survivors.

 

[pixelsmith]

how many burnt out cars/fire engines/ambulances do you see when you watch 911 videos pixel, did it ever occur to you that they make a big pop when they go.
what about the dead firemens oxygen bottles you ever heard a gas cyltnder go p, you wont be hearing much for a day or 2 if you had.

you didnt watch the video either did you?

 

[manxman]

i watched 10mins of selective editing that was enough for me.