Tiny German House

[musictomyears]

I hope I haven't muddied the waters too much.

Not at all. I find talking about the Bible in this way rather refreshing. There was a time in my life when I studied the Bible every day. I always felt that the authors were quite serious and factual, with regard to the things they wrote about. Obviously, the authors described their feelings and interpretations of events from their own vantage point, which was marked by religious fervour.

Also, we need to remember that 2000 years ago, little was known about the world, in general. Science, in the way we understand it today, did not exist. There were no comprehensive geographical maps, or global communications. The world was a mystical landscape, and events were interpreted accordingly. If aliens really did land and interbreed with earthlings, it would have been extraordinarily difficult for people of this time to rationalise such events, and put them into any kind of meaningful context. Religion, quite possibly, would have been the only source of guidance, and the only credible authority.

After all, if creatures from other worlds - whether extra-dimensional or extra-planetary - suddenly appear in your world, you are faced with enormous spiritual challenges.

 

[bengemima]

More interesting than that is the fact that the bible (Torah, Tanach and New Testament) makes the claims the authorship of God Himself - in the person of the Holy Spirit - then still talkes about these things. If you take the bible at its word, you are left with the oddity of God Himself relaying the stories.
I think that most other religions refer to the Nephilim as the gods themselves; i.e. "The gods came down from heaven" etc.
That is what the Samarians said, along with many others.
The bible however, claims its self to be written by God (through men), and then goes on to say that those who "came down" were B'nai Elohim, or the "Sons of God."
An interesting twist to say the least.
If I can safely cary on with the my world view, then I must say that it is easy for me to find deception in the writings of other civilizations . Not that they were intentionally trying to deceive the readers, but that they were themselves deceived. David or Gene, one of the two, is always saying, "what makes you think that they [aliens] are telling the truth?"
I am under the impression that the beings have deceived generations of people into thinking that they are from other planetary systems, worlds, etc. It fits the biblical view.
Scripture says that there will be a great deception; The Lie in the end times. It also says that Satan can appear as an Angel of Light, and that we should not be deceived by him.
The book of Jude talks about the judgement coming for the "angels who left their proper abode" and so on.
On the same note, it says that Satan took a third of the angels with him, and he is the "Prince of the Air."

Again, I will stress that I believe that people see these things, as have I. I also believe that some are coupled with abductions - I just have a different conclusion than most. The alien / UFO subject makes a lot of sense to me in that light.

I would like to add that I am impressed with the amount of objectivity in the discussion here - I expected to get bum-rushed after stating my belief in Yeshua and you all have been great.

 

[0uterj0in]

Thanks a lot for sharing. What about Jesus himself -- do you think he was from another dimension?

About the mini-haus, was there anything small around it, like a mini-footpath leading up to it? Did anyone touch it? What do you think would have happened if you had?

Maybe there was a distortion field surrounding a normal-sized house.

 

[bengemima]

We walked around the tiny house. I personally looked into a window and saw drapes; I don't remember seeing inside though. None of us touched it because we were told explicitly not to.

As for Jesus (Yeshua), The book of 1 John makes the claim that he was from eternity. It starts out, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The "Word" is another name for Jesus; "the Word of God made flesh." The statement 'in the beginning' implies that he was there before everything else was, with God, while at the same time being God.
The bible says that Jesus was fully man, and fully God; so in a sense, He transended time and space because He came from eternity. On the other hand, scripture says that he "set aside his glory and became a man" - which implies that his human body was 100% meat and bones.
If there is a Christian that claims he/she can explain how that happens, he/she is not being honest with you.
The latter parts of Matthew and John's gospels say that Jesus did some things after rising from the dead that are not ordinary, like showing up in the upper room without coming through the door, walking on water, etc.
On the other hand, he ate fish and bread in this same state.
This is also seen in the Torah (1st 5 books of the bible) when Abraham speaks with the Lord, and the two angels - they all eat food with him.

 

[musictomyears]

If I can safely cary on with the my world view,

Of course you can. That's why we come here, to discuss our world views.

You mentioned "Satan" (which I need to put into quotation marks, since I have difficulties with believing in the concept). There are certainly very dark and dangerous forces that exist in many different dimensions, however I get the impression that they are too fragmented and self-centred to obey only one "master". However, that's beside the point.

You said you could imagine that the aliens are servants of an satanic, evil overlord (I paraphrase). You see, I have a problem with this idea. I mention it not to start a counter-argument, but to offer a different perspective. When you look at the reports of UFO and alien encounters, in the vast majority of cases, the aliens appear to react in a neutral fashion. There are only very few reports of direct attacks by aliens, however there are many more reports of abductions. There are also very detailed reports of successful medical procedures carried out by aliens (including the co-called Greys) on humans.

So, my point is, whilst abductions and the planting of screen memories are deplorable actions, they don't fit the description of "evil" or "satanic". Throughout history, regular human beings, made of flesh and blood, have behaved in the most evil and satanic fashion, and no demon could have been worse. When I look at the reports from Afghanistan and Iraq, I must say I cannot imagine a worst hell, from ANY dimension. During the great wars, millions of people were slaughtered by the hands of regular men.

By comparison, abductions perpetrated by aliens don't even feature on the same scale.

 

[bengemima]

<o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" images="" smilies="" redface.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="Embarrassment" smilieid="2" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype> I think it is pretty common for people to have a hard time with Satan. Of course, I think that is evidence of a job well done rather than evidence of nonexistence.
Scripture says that Satan (or HaSatan in Hebrew) was at one time the chief angel in charge of praising God in heaven. When he was 'thrown down' or thrown out of heaven, scripture says that he took a third of the angels with him. Usually in the bible when angels are talked about, you get a sense of military like chain of command and job specific attributes. For instance, Michael is the protector of <st1:country-region><st1>Israel</st1></st1:country-region>, like a military commander of sorts. Gabriel seems to be the messenger in charge of spreading the word of the coming King.
At any rate, they seem to have a chain of command. Jesus tells the Pharisees that their accusation of him casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub (coincidentally means the lord of the flying ones or lord of the flies and is synonymous of Satan) was ludicrous, because a house divided can not stand.
Biblically, Satan is described as beautiful. That is really my case in point because what is the image that we all have of the “Devil?” It is a ridiculous looking cartoon character with a go-tee, red skin, horns, pitchfork, etc. Where do those images come from? The bible says just the opposite. In fact, it says that he had “pipes” built into his body, and a beautiful voice; “he was perfect in creation.” Our concept of Satan substantiates the bible’s claims that he is a deceiver.
Again, I chalk our preconceptions up to a job well done on Satan’s part. When we look at the concept of Satan for what the bible says, then his existence makes perfect sense.
I think that they are neutral in appearance because of their inherent nature to deceive. Their appearance and sometimes proclamation of being extraterrestrials seems to be a highly intelligent deception geared to make people doubt the word of God.
If aliens are from ZetaRalphMachioli and they seeded earth with humans… then the claims of the bible must not be true, and so on.

 

[cindysue]

Hi Bengemima,

I was just wondering if you have listened to any of The Clueless One (Culture of Contact) podcasts with Heidi Hollis? I personally am not sold on what she has to say, but it sort of fits in with your theory. She believes that if you invoke the name of Jesus when you are abducted that the aliens will go away. She also believes that she has spoken with Jesus.
As I said, not really my cup of tea, and the way you pose your theory makes more sense, but reading your posts made me think about those podcasts a little so I thought I'd mention them.

 

[musictomyears]

I guess my point is, I would suggest to not worry so much about external, or externalised demons. Rout out the ones that live inside of you, if you wish to move closer to the divine.

The problem I see with certain types of christian fundamentalism is that it tends to deflect responsibility away from the individual, but focusses too much on negative, "satanic" forces that are beyond our control. I don't doubt for one moment the existence of dark, evil, demonic forces. However, I also believe that we draw those forces to ourselves by the power of our own thoughts. Like attracts like. Spiritual progress and expansion can only be attained by constant purification of our own thought patterns.

 

[bengemima]

Hi Bengemima,

I was just wondering if you have listened to any of The Clueless One (Culture of Contact) podcasts with Heidi Hollis? I personally am not sold on what she has to say, but it sort of fits in with your theory. She believes that if you invoke the name of Jesus when you are abducted that the aliens will go away. She also believes that she has spoken with Jesus.
As I said, not really my cup of tea, and the way you pose your theory makes more sense, but reading your posts made me think about those podcasts a little so I thought I'd mention them.

I haven't heard of either of them, but I will check it out. The statement about invoking Jesus' name is a little broad. Scripturally, as a follower of Yeshua, I can call on His name for help; which includes expelling demons. I would first have to be 'one of His' though. If I am not following Him, and have no intentions to, then it is sort of like calling on someone else's father for help, rather than your own.

If she is saying that she has verbally had a conversation with Jesus, then I would have a hard time believing anything else she might have to say. God Himself in the bible says that Moses was unlike any other person on earth because he spoke to God "mouth to mouth" as a friend, which is to say that they had verbal conversations - Then goes on to say that there has never been a person like Moses ever since. I doubt God would break His word to speak with that lady.
If on the other hand she is saying that Jesus speaks to her heart, and His spirit leads her, then I could buy that. That is exactly what the bible says that he will do when we put our trust in him.

 

[cottonzway]

Thank you for sharing this. Very interesting stuff.

 

[bengemima]

I guess my point is, I would suggest to not worry so much about external, or externalised demons. Rout out the ones that live inside of you, if you wish to move closer to the divine.

The problem I see with certain types of christian fundamentalism is that it tends to deflect responsibility away from the individual, but focusses too much on negative, "satanic" forces that are beyond our control. I don't doubt for one moment the existence of dark, evil, demonic forces. However, I also believe that we draw those forces to ourselves by the power of our own thoughts. Like attracts like. Spiritual progress and expansion can only be attained by constant purification of our own thought patterns.

You're right - Christians have increasingly began to place the blame on Satan for their own actions. "The devil made me do it" has become a mantra of sorts.
Again, my world view is that of a Messianic believer in Yeshua (Jesus), so I must go back to the bible in my answer.

Evil forces are definitely beyond our control - as far as their existence and intentions. Our response to their influence is most certainly in our realm of control though, providing we are equipped with the right tools. I agree - like forces attract, so negativity will attract negativity. Scripture tells us that this does not have to be the case with a believer though; it says that we are "no longer slaves to sin" which is to say that we, if we follow Yeshua, are no longer able to say that the "devil made me do it." We have a choice.

Your last sentence is very similar to the New Testament writings of Paul - he says "and do not be conformed to this world, but transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God." He later says that we are to purify our mind by the washing of His word.
There is research that shows that nearly all abductees and visitees have had at some point dabbled in the occult, or some form of mysticism (Ouija boards, seances, etc.). I know this is the case with myself. I used to be involved in Astral Projection, and spent a few hours alone on a Ouija board. I haven't had any missing time or sightings since becoming a believer in Yeshua. That is not to say that I haven't had some flippin' scary dreams though... and a sense of being watched from time to time.

 

[musictomyears]

bengemima, I think it's great you found, in the Bible, a source for spiritual growth. It is a unique and amazing book.

Too many people never seem to sit down to try to understand what its authors were trying to convey. There is so much emotional drama and turmoil contained in the writings, so much despair, and many cries for salvation. However, there is also much beauty and tenderness.

Personally, I see parallels between the ideas expressed by Jesus, and other religions and philosophies. Obviously, we cannot be totally sure about the life and teachings of Jesus, since historically, the first gospel was written about 90 years after the reported events had occurred. However, I think it is safe to say that Jesus' teachings focused on personal responsibility and forgiveness. He saw our earthly existence as an influencing factor and preparation for the afterlife. These aspects, in my view, make Christianity similar to Buddhism, Hinduism, and a number of other faiths. Traditionally, Christians found it difficult to accommodate the concept of reincarnation, however there is much evidence, even scientific evidence, that supports the notion that reincarnation is a reality.

 

[bengemima]

Obviously, we cannot be totally sure about the life and teachings of Jesus, since historically, the first gospel was written about 90 years after the reported events had occurred. However, I think it is safe to say that Jesus' teachings focused on personal responsibility and forgiveness. He saw our earthly existence as an influencing factor and preparation for the afterlife. These aspects, in my view, make Christianity similar to Buddhism, Hinduism, and a number of other faiths. Traditionally, Christians found it difficult to accommodate the concept of reincarnation, however there is much evidence, even scientific evidence, that supports the notion that reincarnation is a reality.

Actually, the common consensus is that the first gospel was probably written within 30 to 40 years after Christ's resurrection. This would make the contemporaries of Jesus still living at the time of their writing.
There are extra-biblical texts (Talmud, Josephus, etc.) that mention Jesus - the Talmud goes as far as to say that he performed many great wonders using magic. The interesting part is that when they mention him, they tend to validate his miracles by attributing them to sorcery rather than claiming that he didn't do any miracles at all.
I would encourage you to research the differences in each of those religions. You will discover that each one not only compliments the other, but accepts the others as valid paths to "enlightenment" including the Catholic chatachism. Each one, accept for biblical Christianity. Jesus Himself said that He is the only way to the Father. He left no room for an alternative.
Christians didn't find it difficult to accommodate reincarnation - they found the entire concept to be contrary to what the Messiah said concerning salvation. Like myself quoting the bible because I know it to be truth, the early Christians disregarded the idea of reincarnation because their own Torah said that there is one God, and that "man is appointed to die once, then face judgment." Reincarnation didn't fit the plan given to their fathers, and they were told to stay clear of any other 'plan.'
Coincidentally, this is why I use Jesus' Hebrew name, Yeshua; it literally means Salvation. Interestingly enough, Jews all over the world pray "send Your salvation now" on a daily basis; never realizing that they are literally asking God to send Yeshua (Jesus).
First century Christianity was a sect of Judaism, typically referred to as The Way. This is why He said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light. no man comes to the Father but by Me." He was saying that there is no other way, no other Truth. I posted earlier that Satan, according to scripture, will try to deceive us, even appearing as an "angel of light." The true light, according to Jesus, is Himself - that is why Satan tries to come in that manner to deceive us - he is mimicking the true light.

Wow - I hope that wasn't too heavy. I just started here this week, and don't want to wear out my welcome.

While I'm at it though, I need to call out David on something. He has said a few times that the true message of the bible has been lost through numerous translations, therefor, we can not really know the original intent of the message.
Though there are many bad translations out there, the Dead Sea Scrolls proved that the integrity of the Hebrew texts from where we get the King James, New King James, and a few others, is impeccable. Over the course of thousands of years, the only differences were minor; spelling and grammar that never changed the meaning or context. An excellent example of just how amazing a discovery this is remains on display at The Israel Museum, in the form of an entire scroll of the book of Isiah. Word for word, it is all there in its entirety. Every other book in the bible was found as well, except for the book of Esther. All of them were the same as what we hold today, minus the minor differences noted above.
The muddling of the message comes from man trying to make it easier to understand by paraphrasing, and translations based on other translations. It doesn't take much honest study to see that the scriptures are unsurpassed in integrity - archeologically, geographically, and historically. In a show where objectivity and balance are emphasized to such a degree, I find it a little less than flattering to see such hostility (not toward me in these forums, but on the show) toward a subject that the hosts themselves have not looked at with honest and unbiased objectivity. It doesn't take a zealot, fanatic or even a scholar to see that the bible is different than the books of other religions - just honesty.

Politics are one thing; anyone can research Obama and see that he is an idiot - my point being that opinions are perfectly acceptable in politics. Religion however, needs to be looked at with our opinions thrown out of the way. Look at it logically. If we are really seeking Truth, our opinions are irrelevant. None of us want to serve a God who is no bigger than our own will, and a path to enlightenment that is nothing more than what we 'think it is' is ultimately worthless in the face of truth, whatever that truth may be. If we have created our own path, then logically, that would make us our own God - and an honest reply to that notion says that it is false... otherwise, why would we have searched for truth in the first place?
By definition, we would have created it.

 

[musictomyears]

Actually, the common consensus is that the first gospel was probably written within 30 to 40 years after Christ's resurrection.
...
Politics are one thing; anyone can research Obama and see that he is an idiot -

Not from what I remember. According to roman catholic scholars, the earliest gospel was John, written about 90 years after the (alleged) crucifixion, which, just about, would have given him a tiny chance of having been present during the events. However, if you can point me to scholarly research that says otherwise, I'd be very happy to refresh my memory.

You obviously hold strong beliefs concerning Jesus and Christianity. I don't think I could comment in any meaningful way, except for suggesting that you always maintain a high level of tolerance for other belief systems. No single person, and no single philosophy, has all the answers. We need each other to learn more about reality, and to bounce off ideas. Only collectively do we have a chance of creating a better, more peaceful world.

With regard to Obama... Well, he wouldn't be my first choice. I like Ron Paul a lot, even though I disagree with him on a number of issues. However, I never doubted his sincerity. I also like Dennis Kucinich, even more so since he introduced articles of impeachment against Cheney.

 

[bengemima]

Not from what I remember. According to roman catholic scholars, the earliest gospel was John, written about 90 years after the (alleged) crucifixion, which, just about, would have given him a tiny chance of having been present during the events. However, if you can point me to scholarly research that says otherwise, I'd be very happy to refresh my memory.

Before I reply, I want to say that I am utterly impressed with the politeness with which opinions are expressed around here - your willingness to discuss these things with me without it turning into jabs is remarkable, and I thank you.

I consider myself very tolerant of other religions. I can not expect people to adhere to the laws of the Torah if they do not believe in its author. I wouldn't expect the neighbor's kids to obey my rules. That is, unless I adopt the neighbor's kids; then it is a different story.

As for the catholic scholars, I take any information from them with a hefty grain of salt. The fact that their own catechism contradicts scripture makes me leery of their authority on historical matters.

Here is a good essay on why most believe that the gospels were written before 70AD; footnotes included.
There are a number of excellent articles form Chuck Missler detailing the the heptadic structure, grammar and authorship of the gospels. He is easy to read, and includes footnotes for referrence checking. Here is an example of one.

At any rate, I am really enjoying the discussion here. It's like music to my ears...

 

[Gareth]

For example, these entities that we think of as aliens used to pass themselves off as elves and faeries and gnomes and such; our perception of them has changed, and when we see things and collapse the wave function it decides what we are seeing, to a point.

It disturbs me the way you present this as if it were fact. It may well be true, although it maybe it couldnt be further from the truth.

 

[mikec]

Hello again,

I want to revisit the very first story here, about the tiny house.

THat story is SO weird that I am sort of stuck trying to make sense of it.

Here's a few scenarios, and I'm just trying to speculate here:

(1)
Maybe there was some sort of psychological research going on in the military and you were a part of it. Maybe a team put a model house in the woods and your sergeant (is that right?) purposely went to it. There was some strict protocol (don't touch it) in the mission. Why would they use a toy house for their purposes? I have no idea.

- or -

(2)
Maybe there was some sort of hypnosis performed on SOME of the people in the group. Something they were testing, and you were marched to the little model house but you were TOLD (hypnotic suggestion) to have a strong emotional response to seeing the house.

- or -

(3)
Maybe there was hypnosis and it wasn't a tiny model house at all. Maybe it was just a simple wooden crate or something, and YOU and your comrades were given the hypnotic suggestion. You were marched up to this box, but instead you SAW it as a tiny house.

The hypnosis thing "feels" like a possibility. Like a stage hypnotist that makes a person eat a potato while he thinks it's an apple. Would the military want a whole team of soldiers to think the heavily guarded fortress was really an undefended shack? Or would they want them to think the Russian embassy was really an empty ware house? Again - just speculating.

(4)
Now, is any reason to read into this deeper? You spoke of a strange experience separate from the "tiny house" event. Could there have been a program within the military to collect people suspected of some sort of UFO contact and have them all in one squad for some sort of suggestibility testing as part of some effort to test something connected with UFO contact? I'm out on a limb with this line of speculation, but a strange story may require a strange explanation.

(5)
Okay - I'm gunna go WAY out on a limb now. Could there have been some sort of UFO event with a collective erasing of memories? Could the "tiny house" be an induced screen memory? THis may explain the overtly emotional response by your comrade. Maybe?


Questions:
--------------
A) Was there any feeling of being drugged in any way? (as if someone was using medications to enhance a hypnotic state)

B) Do any of your friends from that squad have any UFO type experiences? Or paranormal experiences?

C) Again, the relevance of this event and the global importance of the wall coming down seems extremely intriguing.



Huge thanks for your answers to all the previous questions in this forum. THis story is extremely interesting..

 

[AnnetteMarie]

Before I get spammed with "Chocolate Jesus" comments, let me explain.
Genesis chapter 6 says that the "sons of God" took wives and had children with them. Yeshua (Jesus) says in Matthew 24 that "just as the days of Noah were, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man."
The only thing different about those two time frames is that the B'nai Elohim (sons of god - always referring to angels in Hebrew; biblical and extra-biblical writings included) aren't taking wives of the sons of man, and having children with them... but are they? I believe that this is why there are so many reproductive aspects to the phenomena - they are "taking" the daughters of man again. Maybe some sort of genetic manipulation. This would point toward the extra-dimensional view of the alien. Alien to our relm of reality, but only a dimension away.

hmm. anyone ever thought all of the bible is a recounting of genetic manipulations by aliens as well as psychological manipulation by aliens of we humans? and the purpose would be to train us in the way we should go in order to be capable of withstanding and maintaining contact with the rest of the universe's civilizations? either that, or we are some great big play-yard for students of an intergalactic school of science...:

As for my religion or lack thereof, although I was raised Roman Catholic and it is still my church of preference, I do prefer to put my faith in God, in whatever manifestation God encompasses, rather than any organized religion. At the moment, I am leaning toward Bernard Haisch's theory, when I finally finish his book I will be able to figure out how closely he comes to my own personal theories.

Anyway, back to tiny houses.

 

[skunkape]

It may be the home of one of the guys in this video.

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"The owls are not what they seem."