"Top questions and doubts about UFO whistleblower, Luis Elizondo "

[Realm]

Are we sure we truly know what AATIP was all about? Yes, he could very well have worked the program on behalf of/with/for DoD. That's not the issue. The issue is the public interpretation of all this.

I agree. For what I have understood, the program was kept secret but it wasn't classified, so it doesn't sound like they were the sort of people who would have easy access to all relevant classified material etc. The reported $22 million budget means something like 300-400 000 per month, and they reportedly spent some part of it to infrastructure etc., so it's even less for the rest. Most of that went reportedly to a private company, which presumably has more restrictions in accessing classified materials. To me that sounds like there probably weren't that many persons working for that at the Pentagon, possibly only a few managers to manage subcontracted work.

We also know how Elizondo has covered his real goals by appealing to the aviation safety aspects:

Elizondo, in an internal Pentagon memo requesting that the videos be cleared for public viewing, argued that the images could help educate pilots and improve aviation safety. But in interviews, he said his ultimate intention was to shed light on a little-known program Elizondo himself ran for seven years: a low-key Defense Department operation to collect and analyze reported UFO sightings.

Head of Pentagon’s secret ‘UFO’ office sought to make evidence public

So maybe that program was also represented in a similar way, which would mean they didn't have an official "UFO program", or at least it may depend from who you ask. For some it might be just some aviation safety program few people worked on.

 

[Randall]

Does the pilots testimonys count as confirmation ? I think so. The senators testimony this was a black budget op instigated by him ? I think that counts too.

Everything counts to some degree one way or the other, but it's not like there hasn't been other retired DoD people come out after the fact and disclose what they've been involved with. Ruppelt's book is still far and away more impressive than any of this TTS stuff so far. What I'm talking about is official disclosure from the PR wing of the DoD, not some after the fact claims by ex-employees accompanied by unofficial fuzzy videos.

One thing however is the undeniable change in the media's attitude toward the subject. This is nothing short of a paradigm shift. Too bad the sort of unification I'd hoped for in the ufology community hasn't materialized or we'd be in a position to leverage this opportunity for all it's worth. Instead the community remains divided and focused on territory and self-interest and the TTSA doesn't seem to be any exception.

On this note I wrote to the TTSA people asking them why they had no serious ufologists on their team and they told me that they could not answer my question and referred me to their public relations circular. A follow-up request asking them why they could not answer my question has gone unanswered. Needless to say I'm not impressed.

 

[SRL+]

My associates and I from a perspective inside that world all have a different view of this situation than the believers want to hear.

I’ve been inoculated, so lay it on me.

 

[Walter Bosley]

I think there's too much over-thinking this whole thing (though I recognize some have a fetish for that so to each his own). People like me that I know and have discussed this with think it's simple perception management to cover classified stuff. No need for us to go on and on and on and on about the nuances. As regards the pilots, I think they very possibly saw something they simply were not read-in on, as painful as that may be to their egos (and to the egos of the sissies who bear a crush on aviators, lol ). But before I get all jizzed on by Ye Truest of Believers, I said 'possibly', which leaves margin for those beloved ETs some people just adore, bless their hearts.

The best thing to do is go about our business and see what time does for this whole thing.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

We'll get into more of this soon, when Walter returns to The Paracast.

 

[SRL+]

I think there's too much over-thinking this whole thing (though I recognize some have a fetish for that so to each his own). People like me that I know and have discussed this with think it's simple perception management to cover classified stuff. No need for us to go on and on and on and on about the nuances. As regards the pilots, I think they very possibly saw something they simply were not read-in on, as painful as that may be to their egos (and to the egos of the sissies who bear a crush on aviators, lol ). But before I get all jizzed on by Ye Truest of Believers, I said 'possibly', which leaves margin for those beloved ETs some people just adore, bless their hearts.

The best thing to do is go about our business and see what time does for this whole thing.

Thanks for clearing that up for all of us, as now we can all go back home and visit our families.

 

[Randall]

... The best thing to do is go about our business and see what time does for this whole thing.

For once I have to agree with you. But it would be nice to see someone come up with a way to take advantage of the change in the media spin. For my part I'm going to create a form letter and send it to the program directors commenting and complimenting them for the shift in their approach. Sometimes they pay attention to their audience feedback, and if they get the right people supporting them, maybe we can avoid the backlash that I can't help think is coming.

It's just a matter of time before the media messes up and are embarrassed by airing some hoax video or story they think is legit because they don't do their homework first and are just hungry for ratings. Then it will all go back to not being taken seriously. On that note I should mention that the Chorus network up here dumped Coast to Coast across the country. They're replacing it with a variety of talk show topics mainly in a political vein.

 

[Thomas R Morrison]

For once I have to agree with you. But it would be nice to see someone come up with a way to take advantage of the change in the media spin. For my part I'm going to create a form letter and send it to the program directors commenting and complimenting them for the shift in their approach. Sometimes they pay attention to their audience feedback, and if they get the right people supporting them, maybe we can avoid the backlash that I can't help think is coming.

That's a great idea.

On that note I should mention that the Chorus network up here dumped Coast to Coast across the country. They're replacing it with a variety of talk show topics mainly in a political vein.

Didn't George Knapp just take over hosting Coast to Coast? Maybe it's only temporary; I stopped listening years ago when George Noory augured the show into a terminal nosedive at Mach 10 and reduced it to a blithering idiot fest. But I've noticed a few recent Coast to Coast shows with George Knapp appearing on YouTube, and I really like hearing him host it:
George Knapp

 

[marduk]

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player. That struts and frets his hour upon the stage. And then is heard no more: it is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.

This is at best an ego play with good intentions, but nothing that hasn't already been disclosed has been disclosed. If it's an honest portrayal, they don't know what it was.

And that's the best case scenario, folks.

The most complete bio I could find is here:
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program

And a $22M program just isn't very big, folks. A goof like me makes bigger calls than that, and I'm in the private sector.

Assuming half of that is OPEX, that would pay for a staff of about 50 people. I don't know the fully laden cost of folks there, let's call it 100 tops. What can 50-100 people do inside an org like that, that runs on bureaucracy and bullshit?

Gather data and file reports, that ultimately got ignored because it was shut down. BFD.

 

[Randall]

That's a great idea.


Didn't George Knapp just take over hosting Coast to Coast? Maybe it's only temporary; I stopped listening years ago when George Noory augured the show into a terminal nosedive at Mach 10 and reduced it to a blithering idiot fest. But I've noticed a few recent Coast to Coast shows with George Knapp appearing on YouTube, and I really like hearing him host it:
George Knapp

I've always liked Knapp, and thought Byers, the character in the Lone Gunman ( X-Files ) bore a bit of a resemblance to Knapp in his earlier days.

 

[Randall]

And a $22M program just isn't very big, folks. A goof like me makes bigger calls than that, and I'm in the private sector.

OK how about quietly sliding through a 22 million dollar off-the-books allotment to investigate UFOs and we'll operate it out of a fictional janitorial office down there on the lower parking level?

 

[mike]

As regards the pilots, I think they very possibly saw something they simply were not read-in on

So they describe a tylenol or tic tac shaped object that could stop on a dime from supersonic speeds, could take off so fast it seemed to disapear.

I honestly don’t think humans have that technology to do what that thing did. Nor could the human body withstand accelerations like that.

“You look at the video of it — there’s no exhaust flume, there’s no indication of how that thing is moving around. Having seen a lot of different aeroplanes, you can always at least (see) hot spots where the exhaust is coming out. I was close enough visually to go, ‘We don’t have anything like that.’”

He insisted the object was alien in origin.

He said: “It was impressive, it had incredible performance

US fighter pilot reveals UFO encounter

So what was it they saw ?

Do you think some terrestrial agency has this technology ?


“It was a clear day with a blue background and it was perfectly white. We didn’t see any windows, no form of propulsion, nothing, just a big white object.


“It was rounded on both ends and had a cylindrical body which rounded in, same front to back.

“I couldn’t tell what it was made of. It was bright white but it wasn’t reflecting a bunch of light.”

Fravor flew towards it and the aircraft began ascending towards him, passing him at about 12,000 feet. He thinks he got within 800m of it.

He said: “I literally chased the thing and it started to mirror us — it was like it became aware we were there. I cut across to see if I could get closer and it rapidly accelerated and disappeared. Within a matter of a seconds it was gone.”

Asked what was going through his mind, he said: “I was thinking, ‘That’s pretty strange’. In 16 years of flying I had never seen anything like that. Nothing that can hover and climb at that rate up and then accelerate and just disappear.

At this point another aircraft was sent to investigate and recorded radar footage of the aircraft. The 90-second video shows the oblong-shaped object hovering before it darts off to the left at what appears to be an unprecedented velocity.

Fravor said: “It jammed the radar. You couldn’t lock it with a conventional radar. You could passively track it and see it, but if you tried to grab a lock it wouldn’t allow you to do that.

“When it takes off and goes to the side, that’s a significant amount of distance to travel in a very short period of time — we’re talking miles. That thing just goes poof and in about a second it’s off the side of the screen.

So you are confident its not ET, Whats the alternative explanation ? Hallucinations ? Holograms ? Drones ?

Something they were not read in on doesn't tell us very much at all.

They saw something, you are sure its not ET. You've used charged language like believers to marginalize the opinions of those who think its a reasonable explanation given the performance characteristics displayed.

So what do you think might be a reasonable explanation for those performance characteristics.

If all you have is veiled ridicule for those who think those performance characteristics are beyond our capability's and that includes the pilots who saw them, then you have no alternative answers whatsoever.

The pilot who saw it says.

‘We don’t have anything like that.’”

He insisted the object was alien in origin.

So tell us why hes wrong............

" Something else" isnt a good answer. What did they see ? "something else".
What do we do about North korea ? "something else".
What do we do about fundamentalist terrorism ? "something else".
What do we do about the destruction of our planet ? "something else".

Its a worthless response. It has no value as a tactic or an answer.

What did the pilots see ? "something else" something they simply were not read-in on..............

Thanks for the insightful input Walter.

Help yourself to the Kleenex.

 

[Walter Bosley]

"If all you have is veiled ridicule for those who think those performance characteristics are beyond our capability's and that includes the pilots who saw them, then you have no alternative answers whatsoever."

LMFAO Mike, calm your glutes down with that righteous indignation there, pard. You and everyone else can read what I said and I gave margin for ET. It is my OPINION that it's not ET. Because it's YOUR OPINION that it's ET, that bothers you because you're all excited that this will be "it". And I don't veil anything: The ETH is lacking and its most zealous proponents are, too. Whether you like it or not, here's a fact for you to suck on all night like it's an everlasting gobstopper: Not Every Pilot Is Read-In On Everything. And you can believe what the pilots are saying but that doesn't mean I have to, especially if I suspect a perception management op. I have recruited people to LIE to targets. My opinion is every bit as valid as you hold yours to be. Jeez, this really isn't THAT important, guys. Six months from now, we'll have the next big whoop-dee-doo that the same people here will be writing volumes of nada about and still nothing will come of it. Haven't you figured it out yet? The best thing to do IS to ignore these kinds of reports -- and you'll find soon enough that they'll stop spinning them.

Oh, and regarding proving it's not ET: YOU prove that it is. We know that human tech exists, we know that secret human tech exists, we know that secrecy surrounding human tech is a reality, we know that not everyone gets read-in on all secret tech. What we do NOT know yet -- not here -- is that ET is responsible for these UFOs. So the onus is on you.

 

[Walter Bosley]

Now let's all make happy and be friends

 

[SRL+]

Of course, you’ve heard of a cyclone, but I hope you have some foul weather gear at the ready because I sense a “jizzclone” headed straight in your direction.

 

[Walter Bosley]

Of course, you’ve heard of a cyclone, but I hope you have some foul weather gear at the ready because I sense a “jizzclone” headed straight in your direction.

LOL

 

[mike]

Do you not see the irony in using quasi religious references towards those who consider the ET explanation (as did the pilots who saw it) calling them "believers" as if their pov somehow equates to religious ignorance.
That on the one hand you use charged language like "Ye Truest of Believers" which carry's the implication of outdated and ignorant thinking.

But then you give us a god of the gaps alternative of "something else"

One example of such an argument, which uses God as an explanation of one of the current gaps in biological science, is as follows: "Because current science can't figure out exactly how life started, it must be God who caused life to start.
God of the gaps - Wikipedia

As answers go, as alternative explanations go "god" and "something else" are the same valueless reply. They don't advance our understanding of the matter one little bit.

And to compound it you use the argument from authority angle to offer your god of gaps argument, Having worked in counterespionage operations and in counterintelligence for several years, and having worked with CIA personnel ie i'm the high priest of such knowledge and i say the answer is god.... err sorry something else....

Hilarious.

 

[mike]

Of course, you’ve heard of a cyclone, but I hope you have some foul weather gear at the ready because I sense a “jizzclone” headed straight in your direction.

Grab the Kleenex, were gonna a cleanup on isle three.............

 

[Walter Bosley]

Do you not see the irony in using quasi religious references towards those who consider the ET explanation (as did the pilots who saw it) calling them "believers" as if their pov somehow equates to religious ignorance.
That on the one hand you use charged language like "Ye Truest of Believers" which carry's the implication of outdated and ignorant thinking.

But then you give us a god of the gaps alternative of "something else"

One example of such an argument, which uses God as an explanation of one of the current gaps in biological science, is as follows: "Because current science can't figure out exactly how life started, it must be God who caused life to start.
God of the gaps - Wikipedia

As answers go, as alternative explanations go "god" and "something else" are the same valueless reply. They don't advance our understanding of the matter one little bit.

And to compound it you use the argument from authority angle to offer your god of gaps argument, Having worked in counterespionage operations and in counterintelligence for several years, and having worked with CIA personnel ie i'm the high priest of such knowledge and i say the answer is god.... err sorry something else....

Hilarious.

You really are worked up about this, aren't you?

 

[mike]

You really are worked up about this, aren't you?

Does that gratify you ?
Is that what you want to achieve ?

Is that your contribution to the debate ?

If the answer is Yes to any of those then you are just trolling us.

Genuine research and debate on this topic seeks more than "something else" as input.

Do you have anything of real substance to add to the debate ? (Protip "something else" isn't worth anything)