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"Top questions and doubts about UFO whistleblower, Luis Elizondo "
- Thread starter Christopher O'Brien
- Start date
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Hollywood Tomfortas
Paranormal Adept
I raise a Spock-like eyebrow and blurt out: “Fascinating, Mr. Morrison.” How fascinating to notice that in your rubbish list of pseudo-scientific pursuits that you failed to mention telepathy. (Of course there are many others you could have listed so I will give you the benefit of the doubt here and not criticize your omission of telepathy.)
However, you do open yourself to accusations of hypocrisy if you, in the future, would fail to hold your hero Luis Elizondo accountable for his own tacit endorsement of, and therefore belief in the existence of telepathy, since he now works for TTSA. Would you ever ask him why he works for an organization that actually invests money into proving scientifically that rubbish like telepathy exists and indeed can even be engineered for future applications for enhancing humanity?
I give the link for TTSA. Scrolling down the homepage, we read this description of the Science Division of TTSA
To The Stars Academy
The Science Division is designed to be a theoretical and experimental laboratory to challenge conventional thinking with the discovery of a new world of physics and consciousness-related possibilities and exploring how to use them to affect the world positively. We have access to a global team of research scientists with advanced knowledge to pursue projects, which include Human Ultra-Experience Database, Engineering Space-Time Metrics, Brain-Computer Interface, and Telepathy.
[ . . . ]
Telepathy - Explore the location in the brain where this phenomenon is centered, and develop protocols for its enhancement and use.
_________
That definitely looks as if they take it for granted that there's such phenomenon and even some specific part for it in the brain that can be "enhanced".
What about that Human Ultra-Experience? What exactly is that and what does that include?
Hollywood Tomfortas
Paranormal Adept
Well, the only description they give is this.
Human ultra-experience database - Develop a world-wide digital database cataloguing different types of supranormal experiences, with the goal of creating proprietary algorithms to find detailed patterns and correlate them with other academic research.
———
What ought to raise eyebrows is the creation of proprietary algorithms, which not only monetizes UFO disclosure, but also every last paranormal experience of every person in the database. I suppose they are creating a Facebook for Paranormals where their algorithm targets users with TTSA ads tailored to the Supranormal experiences, like NDEs, visitation by angels, UFO abduction, etc.
Hollywood Tomfortas
Paranormal Adept
@Realm If you zoom out from the telepathy “tree” here and survey the whole “forest” of TTSA, you will see that they take for granted what they call “The Phenomenon” — that aliens exist, have visited us in the past, are visiting us now and will provide us with the technological breakthroughs we need to save our planet in the future. That’s a prime tenet of their faith. It’s not “I want to believe!” It’s “I do believe.”
Obviously, they have a “Perception Management” problem because most people are still totally skeptical of UFOs and aliens, but are willing to accept UAPs, like you and everyone else here commenting about the Nimitz UAPs and withholding judgment (so far) that they are alien-guided UFO craft.
So how does TTSA plan to manage your perception? Well, that’s where the Entertainment Division comes in, and to introduce that realm for you, Mr. Realm, I would like to quote from Jacques Vallee’s introduction to Peter Levenda’s first book of 3 volumes called: Sekret Machines: Gods, Man and War
Read Jacques Vallee's Foreword for Sekret Machines: GODS Non-Fiction
Let’s concede to the skeptics, for the sake of argument, that UFOs don’t exist, as the experts of SETI and the consensus of Academe keep assuring us. Let us assume that reports of such objects are indeed inconsistent with anthropocentric ideas of physical reality as the sophisticated edifice of modern science understands it.
In a subtle twist of logic that would have delighted the philosophers of the Derrida school, this denial of the testimony compiled from hundreds of thousands of sightings all over the world suddenly enables us to accept them freely: What harm could there be in acknowledging these meaningless stories in the light of day?
As the authors of this book argue brilliantly, once we agree that UFOs are impossible, nothing stops us from opening the files—even the secret ones: Indeed, “The UFO can be ‘known’ only by not asking what it is.”
Which logically leads us to realize something else: If UFOs and physical reality are incompatible, maybe the time has come to re-negotiate physical reality. Because, as we all know, these impossible UFOs that don’t exist are not going away.
——————-
So, what does it mean now to “re-negotiate reality?” Well, that’s Perception Management 101, isn’t it?
While there is no doubt Vallée is a prominent contributor to this topic, hes just a man. As fallible as anyone else.
His theory's have changed over the years so even he has reserved the right to be wrong within his own conclusions.
Personally i support his reservations.
I think his progression from ETsH to EtsH with a twist is reasonable, but i don't think hes nailed the answers either.
I find his five arguments against the ETH to be deeply flawed.
His theory's have changed over the years so even he has reserved the right to be wrong within his own conclusions.
Personally i support his reservations.
I think his progression from ETsH to EtsH with a twist is reasonable, but i don't think hes nailed the answers either.
I find his five arguments against the ETH to be deeply flawed.
This theory is outlined more in depth in a manuscript that Kammerer details in the article, titled Space-Time Illusions: A Transhumanist Exploration of Jacques Vallee’s Interdimensional UFO Hypothesis, which will hopefully be published in the near future. In his own words, the author says:
“The manuscript compares Vallee’s idea of the unity of matter and consciousness to David Bohm’s theory of the Implicate Order, according to which mind and matter are generated by an underlying Implicate Order which consists of pre-consciousness and pre-matter existing as a single, interpenetrating, and inseparable phenomenon. That UFOs exhibit simultaneous physical and immaterial aspects suggests that the phenomenon is neither material nor immaterial in the normal senses of those terms, but that it may instead originate from a technology that has mastered Bohm’s Implicate Order which lacks spacetime and which consists of an inseparable pre-matter and pre-consciousness that generates matter and consciousness in the domain of illusory spacetime. In this way, a technological mastery of the common ground behind matter and consciousness might help explain the UFO phenomenon. Vallee’s multiverse may be essentially the same as Bohm’s Implicate Order.”
Essentially, Vallee’s interpretation of various dimensional phenomenon in relation to UFOs is not to be interpreted like conventional notions of a “multiverse,” as proposed by adherents to String Theory and multiple alternate dimensions existing alongside ours. Instead, accepting the notion that space and time are, in fact, illusions imposed on our consciousness resulting from our physical ability as humans to perceive a three-dimensional world, we may begin to understand that in the absence of real, physical space, the idea of alternate locations in coincidence with our own becomes obsolete; instead, we are operating in one perceptual area of awareness. Arguably, some of the phenomenon we call “UFOs” or “aliens” represents consciousness stemming from an entirely different perceptual state, which as if by magic to the average human observer, occasionally manage to intersect with humans in this reality.
Into the Matrix: Artificial Intelligence, Future Humanity and the UFO Enigma | Mysterious Universe
“The manuscript compares Vallee’s idea of the unity of matter and consciousness to David Bohm’s theory of the Implicate Order, according to which mind and matter are generated by an underlying Implicate Order which consists of pre-consciousness and pre-matter existing as a single, interpenetrating, and inseparable phenomenon. That UFOs exhibit simultaneous physical and immaterial aspects suggests that the phenomenon is neither material nor immaterial in the normal senses of those terms, but that it may instead originate from a technology that has mastered Bohm’s Implicate Order which lacks spacetime and which consists of an inseparable pre-matter and pre-consciousness that generates matter and consciousness in the domain of illusory spacetime. In this way, a technological mastery of the common ground behind matter and consciousness might help explain the UFO phenomenon. Vallee’s multiverse may be essentially the same as Bohm’s Implicate Order.”
Essentially, Vallee’s interpretation of various dimensional phenomenon in relation to UFOs is not to be interpreted like conventional notions of a “multiverse,” as proposed by adherents to String Theory and multiple alternate dimensions existing alongside ours. Instead, accepting the notion that space and time are, in fact, illusions imposed on our consciousness resulting from our physical ability as humans to perceive a three-dimensional world, we may begin to understand that in the absence of real, physical space, the idea of alternate locations in coincidence with our own becomes obsolete; instead, we are operating in one perceptual area of awareness. Arguably, some of the phenomenon we call “UFOs” or “aliens” represents consciousness stemming from an entirely different perceptual state, which as if by magic to the average human observer, occasionally manage to intersect with humans in this reality.
Into the Matrix: Artificial Intelligence, Future Humanity and the UFO Enigma | Mysterious Universe
I cant vouch for George Lobuono his data or his conclusions, but he does explore this in his book Alien mind a primer.
https://wespenre.com/pdf/AlienMind.pdf
In their interactions with humans, aliens are good observers. To some extent, all are studied scientists. More importantly, all aliens who visit this planet are skilled in telepathy, the ability to not only read another’s thoughts, but to communicate complex, diagrammatic information in ways that often astound the human initiate. As such, they can see through humans with a kind of extra-dimensional insight. To do so is the norm, not the exception among alien societies. They’re able to do so for a variety of reasons.
3. - How Aliens View the Universe
I haven't really paid much attention to DeLonge or his books or what he believes. Pretty much the same applies to TTSA, I have really been interested in that Nimitz case and have more or less ignored the other stuff until yesterday, when I finally took a bit better look at what they are actually trying to sell, and also finally watched their announcement event in full. The more I have seen, the more it has started to seem like this is to Tom DeLonge what Scientology is to Tom Cruise.
Yeah, I don't really know what to make of it, but since I haven't found any explanation for it that I could justify, I'm open to the possibility of it having alien origins. Although, mind you, my guess would be that if it is from somewhere else, it most probably would be a craft that guides itself and there's nobody inside.
I definitely don't agree with that! I take them seriously just because there's nothing impossible in them. Alien life is rather something that would be a bigger surprise if it didn't exist at least in some form somewhere. I really don't understand, when there are scientifically plausible reasons to expect something like that visiting us, why some try to mystify the whole thing in ways that are not supported by anything?
To me the most significant thing that supports the possibility of UFOs being real alien craft is the fact that we have scientifically valid reasons to expect that may happen. It doesn't make much sense to me that some seem to be trying to throw that away and replace it with some nonsense.
Seriously, if DeLonge believes to something like that, he might be the right person to set up some new UFO cult, but not the kind that this subject matter actually needs.
And he received such information from where?
That really is a big part of the credibility problem that surrounds the whole matter. So far nobody has managed to give solid evidence let alone actual proof of even a single case being the real deal. There are interesting unexplained cases, but that is pretty much it if we stay with facts. When the situation is like that (at least to us who don't have any personal experiences), it doesn't really help when people are skipping ahead to all sorts of conclusions which they can't actually support with anything.
Did you not bother to even read my caveat ?
Ive read his book cover to cover, And even i dont claim its contents are true. Just that he believes it and explores those concepts.
But its worth a read imo, Its at best a source of idea's but not answers.
I read your caveat and didn't mean to imply you believe that, but I understood that he is making such conclusions and I was really just asking from you if you have read where he claims to have received such information.
Fair enough, The primer itself references many many cases in Ufology and many well known researchers and authors. George is definitely an enthusiast for the topic.
S y n o p s i s:
Rather than debate whether UFO's and aliens exist, George LoBuono quotes human witnesses and informative aliens in a startling, new exploration of the thoughts and assumptions of our extraterrestrial neighbors. Sixty-five years after Roswell, evidence suggests that aliens are trying to get humans to step beyond elite greed and failed ecology in order to develop a more mature kind of cosmic citizenship. George fills fill in some of the blanks in public knowledge about aliens and will help you understand how aliens think and feel about their interactions with humans and other aliens. We discuss how alien science and how humans can both detect and identify different types of aliens and their energy networks. Could there be an alien race that may actually want to militarize us by buzzing defense installations and breeding an obedient client population via abductions, then worsening other strains on earth? Why would they do that? First and foremost, to create anti-alien sentiment that would isolate us from friendly neighboring aliens, allowing a specific alien race to do as they please here. Is this why the star wars "defense shield" is in place to prevent full contact? Did you know that some aliens consider human sleep an abbreviated form of death and a waste of time since they use wireless, negative-cycle technology that renews their energy, thus avoiding the need for sleep? B i o George LoBuono is a writer and investigative researcher. After studying US history in graduate school, he traveled the world and worked as a freelance reporter and essayist. Author of books on various topics, his latest book, Alien Mind -- a Primer, quotes human contactees and informative aliens in a startling new exploration of the thoughts and assumptions of our extraterrestrial neighbors.
George LoBuono will present his conclusions on aliens based on his telepathic communications and published UFO/abductee material. He claims his initial contact with aliens began in 1995 with a group known as the Elders, who reproduce by cloning. Later he began communications with the "hyperversal" aliens, a more advanced race who told him that they came from a previous universe cycle from over 13 billion years ago, and helped to engineer the current universe into being. While there are different alien groups visiting Earth, LoBuono believes that their main theme is "universal ecology." Their thought processes are along social lines--a kind of group think, which he thinks can sometimes lead to abuse in a "Big Brother" fashion. The aliens are physical in nature, but the universal standard is for non-sexual reproduction, which allows for precise population control and a reduction of territoriality. George provides interesting details about the aliens, such as their average lifespan. Though the material and its presumed sources are controversial in nature, it is nevertheless thought-provoking and intriguing, and opens our minds to the possibilities of the nature of off-world societies.
But having read his book i am at pains to point out i cant vouch for him or his data and conclusions. Its very out there stuff.
But worth a read imo.
Some of it resonated with me at an intuitive level. Some of it didn't.
There are a few Youtube radio interviews with him as well.
S y n o p s i s:
Rather than debate whether UFO's and aliens exist, George LoBuono quotes human witnesses and informative aliens in a startling, new exploration of the thoughts and assumptions of our extraterrestrial neighbors. Sixty-five years after Roswell, evidence suggests that aliens are trying to get humans to step beyond elite greed and failed ecology in order to develop a more mature kind of cosmic citizenship. George fills fill in some of the blanks in public knowledge about aliens and will help you understand how aliens think and feel about their interactions with humans and other aliens. We discuss how alien science and how humans can both detect and identify different types of aliens and their energy networks. Could there be an alien race that may actually want to militarize us by buzzing defense installations and breeding an obedient client population via abductions, then worsening other strains on earth? Why would they do that? First and foremost, to create anti-alien sentiment that would isolate us from friendly neighboring aliens, allowing a specific alien race to do as they please here. Is this why the star wars "defense shield" is in place to prevent full contact? Did you know that some aliens consider human sleep an abbreviated form of death and a waste of time since they use wireless, negative-cycle technology that renews their energy, thus avoiding the need for sleep? B i o George LoBuono is a writer and investigative researcher. After studying US history in graduate school, he traveled the world and worked as a freelance reporter and essayist. Author of books on various topics, his latest book, Alien Mind -- a Primer, quotes human contactees and informative aliens in a startling new exploration of the thoughts and assumptions of our extraterrestrial neighbors.
George LoBuono will present his conclusions on aliens based on his telepathic communications and published UFO/abductee material. He claims his initial contact with aliens began in 1995 with a group known as the Elders, who reproduce by cloning. Later he began communications with the "hyperversal" aliens, a more advanced race who told him that they came from a previous universe cycle from over 13 billion years ago, and helped to engineer the current universe into being. While there are different alien groups visiting Earth, LoBuono believes that their main theme is "universal ecology." Their thought processes are along social lines--a kind of group think, which he thinks can sometimes lead to abuse in a "Big Brother" fashion. The aliens are physical in nature, but the universal standard is for non-sexual reproduction, which allows for precise population control and a reduction of territoriality. George provides interesting details about the aliens, such as their average lifespan. Though the material and its presumed sources are controversial in nature, it is nevertheless thought-provoking and intriguing, and opens our minds to the possibilities of the nature of off-world societies.
But having read his book i am at pains to point out i cant vouch for him or his data and conclusions. Its very out there stuff.
But worth a read imo.
Some of it resonated with me at an intuitive level. Some of it didn't.
There are a few Youtube radio interviews with him as well.
So basically one would just have to trust his words on what he claims to have experienced and his selections and interpretations of experiences of others? Otherwise the rest of it is pretty meaningless. Is that man somehow different from all the others who have claimed having discussed with named alien species, angels, gods and whatnot, and given all sorts of differing accounts?
I wouldn't go far as to say "completely reshaped" but I 100% agree with the rest. Whether one believes Elizondo or not.. In fact, whatever one believes about him and his claims, unless he is comprehensively "outed" as a charlatan later down the line, the very fact that he's given UFO's/UAP's a bit more credibility makes much more than "a bit" of a difference to serious UFO witnesses and researchers. The skeptics were always wrong when they declared "UFO's aren't real or else governments would be researching them", but now we can rub their noses in it, quite frankly, as they deserve. It was an epic intellectual failure on their part and I'm glad it's finally been exposed so we don't have to listen to such childish nonsense any longer. If that's all that comes of this, I'm happy.
I wonder if at least some of the people who are now part of the TTSA actually follow somewhat similar logic. That is, I'm having a hard time believing they all take that telepathy etc. stuff seriously, but maybe they are just willing to play along as long as it advances their own causes and there are no better options.
Could it have been just a chain reaction, so that when DeLonge managed to get one or few government insiders aboard, the rest followed? Do we know if Elizondo for example actually supports the rest of DeLonges vision, or is he in just because he sees TTSA as his best chance to advance his own goals?
Apparently, the "chain of custody" stuff is more complicated than us laymen appreciate. Eric Davis has confirmed that "My boss and I were subcontractors to BAASS which was the contractor of record to the Luis’ program." (The boss he refers to is Hal Puthoff). Of the chain of custody, he states:
