Tough answers

[5tomidnite]

Following this I would say that if this was case and the "elite" would decide to share this with the world the press conference would go something like this, "Yes there are aliens...but their dickish assholes with nothing to contribute to us as a people or a species. So just ignore them and go about your business."

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Yeah, it's a failing - I make people miserable all day, every day!

 

[dyingsun]

Yeah, it's a failing - I make people miserable all day, every day!

Cheer up, old Scott. I like you, for what it's worth.

 

[boomerang]

When I said 'I'd like to ruin many people's convictions....,' what I meant was aimed at the zealots and extremists. We all know the type.

Goggs, We certainly know it all too well in my country these days so I think I know what your mean. It's not so much a matter of ruining anything as an attempt to enlarge a kind of secular space where we can all co-exist.

 

[Trajanus]

Trajanus: As I said, this is a kind of thought experiment that might explain why we seem to be kept in the dark with this phenomenon. No one has to agree. But let me clarify my reasoning, right or wrong, behind some of the dialogue.

- No. You are simply unsuited.
What if the ET is telling the truth and H Sapiens simply lacks the biological mojo to do more than burn millions of tons of chemicals just to land small payloads in our neighborhood? Our current accomplishments seem miraculous to us. But are straining mankind both technically and (more importantly) to economic limits. As much as you love your dog, could you send him or her to MIT?

I'm very reluctant to think we're inherently incapable of progressing much farther. It seems so at odds with history, the vast leaps over the past decades. Feynman and Stent may be right that we're approaching limits on fundamental knowledge (i.e. limits to the complexity of nature itself). But if those limits precluded interstellar travel, what are they doing here?
Much of the current problem, I think, is the limited funding for basic research.
It's true that long ago, H. s. neanderthalensis seemed inherently limited in the progress he could make. Our species surpassed and supplanted him. The key difference, I think is that our ancestors could go only so far, whereas we have never stopped progressing.
I don't doubt there may be something about our visitors that the powers-that-be want concealed (assuming they know much if anything). But I don't think the above is it.

 

[Ezechiel]

This is a sort of thought experiment. So humor me.

Probably just bad science fiction. But imagine being tasked with handling such information. The tendency might be to bury it in the deepest hole available.

A judgmental ET.. Why would any advanced alien race waste their precious breath on a lowly race such as us lol. I can't stand 'day the earth stood still' type scenarios. If they are going to be condescending and pretentious they might as well stay home rofl.

Would you bother travel to a distant star system and start telling a bunch of Neanderthals that they sucked butt lol

The only valid situation where an alien race would be forced to engage in some form of communication/negotiation would be if a resource or territory was at stake and the interested parties were of relative equal technological advancement. Outside that window you either are a god or his subject

 

[boomerang]

A judgmental ET.. Why would any advanced alien race waste their precious breath on a lowly race such as us lol.

Good question. And then, why does whatever advanced intelligence that is behind this "stuff" present itself to us so frequently? More paradox.

 

[Trajanus]

And then, why does whatever advanced intelligence that is behind this "stuff" present itself to us so frequently?

We're worth the trouble.

 

[Ezechiel]

Good question. And then, why does whatever advanced intelligence that is behind this "stuff" present itself to us so frequently? More paradox.

One good answer to that question brings in Kaku and Kardashev who propose stages in sentient evolution. A type 3 civilization would exploit an entire galaxy and in that kind of scenario, the earth would be the equivalent of a garden. A gardener would necessarily check up on it on a regular basis and if needed make the appropriate adjustments

This also brings up the possibility that the earth is an experimental platform and could actually be an artificial construct. The synchronious rotation of the moon around the earth is fascinating (only one side always facing us). Maybe one day humans will be able to organize matter in a goldylocks zone around a young star... and set up a moon serving as a shield around it. Once you have a good recipe for the propagation of life in the universe, maybe you become a chef ?

 

[Trajanus]

A type 3 civilization would exploit an entire galaxy and in that kind of scenario, the earth would be the equivalent of a garden. A gardener would necessarily check up on it on a regular basis and if needed make the appropriate adjustments

Hard to reconcile with so called high strangeness. Moreover, I don't see them intervening to solve our environmental issues.

and set up a moon serving as a shield around it.

Shield? The moon is said to be vital for stabilizing obliquity but dunno about it being a "shield."

 

[Ezechiel]

Hard to reconcile with so called high strangeness. Moreover, I don't see them intervening to solve our environmental issues.

I think that's why humans are still here... there is a limit to micro-management lol

Kaku proposes that we are on the verge of becoming a type 1 civilization and type 1 = planetary. So in effect, we'll be cleaning our own crap and learn to become gardeners.

Shield? The moon is said to be vital for stabilizing obliquity but dunno about it being a "shield."

Must be all those pock marks on the far side.

On high strangeness... this type-3 gardener idea is consistent with supposed interventions at nuclear sites. Did a type-3 gardener shut down the silos to send a message? This is exactly what Robert Salas says.

"I think it was simply a show. They wanted to shine a light on our nuclear weapons and just send us a message," he said. "My interpretation is the message is get rid of them because it's going to mean our destruction."​

Former Airmen to Govt.: Come Clean on UFOs - ABC News​

 

[Trajanus]

Must be all those pock marks on the far side.

Most dating from the age of heavy bombardment, preceding life on Earth.

On high strangeness... this type-3 gardener idea is consistent with supposed interventions at nuclear sites. Did a type-3 gardener shut down the silos to send a message? This is exactly what Robert Salas says.

"I think it was simply a show. They wanted to shine a light on our nuclear weapons and just send us a message," he said. "My interpretation is the message is get rid of them because it's going to mean our destruction."

​

'67 was a long time ago, and they don't seem determined about enforcement, considering the ease with which they could do it themselves.

 

[Ezechiel]

Most dating from the age of heavy bombardment, preceding life on Earth.

I have a question about the Moon and it's role in life on earth. How important is tidal activity in the formation of life on Earth? Also, does the Moon really act like a shield for the Earth, stopping some impacts that would otherwise hit us? Finally, could life have developed to the extent it has on Earth without the Moon?

Scientists don't agree on the importance of tides for life on Earth. Of course, there are many creatures that live in tidal areas today, but whether the existence of tidal environments was an important factor for the origin of life is not known. The Moon does not shield the Earth from impacts. It occupies only about one millionth of the area of the sky, so it would intercept only one in a million incoming asteroids or comets. The most important way the Moon is important for life is that its gravity maintains an approximately constant tilt for the Earth's rotation axis, so that we have less extremes of climate than does (for example) Mars.
David Morrison
Astrobiology Senior Scientist
June 23, 2010
Solar System Exploration: Science & Technology: Astrobiology: Ask an Astrobiologist

'67 was a long time ago, and they don't seem determined about enforcement, considering the ease with which they could do it themselves.

A pure show of force... 'we can neutralize your crazy initiatives, don't force us to intervene'.... Still pure speculation... (but fun)

The type-3 gardener hypothesis still makes sense. As we approach type-1 one status there should be less and less interventions by type-3 gardeners... if you follow the logic

The ultimate embarassment would be to be put under 'guardianship' until we attain type-1 status, balance out the earths ecosystem and keep it in check. The more we evolve the bigger the impacts on the environment and the more powerful the tools to reduce the footprint need to be. A type-1 gardener can control hurricanes and volcanoes

 

[starise]

Quite right, they would simply pull the demon card, saying any info from this source is from the Devil.

While I don't think anything even resembling the original proposition will ever occur I reserve the opinion to believe it could be lying spiritual entities. If you have eliminated this from your vocabulary there are other terms being thrown around- Inter-dimensional, space brothers, Extra terrestrials,yes I'm going to say it, evil spirits. No I don't believe in Santa Claus ;0)

Any objective study of the paranormal will reveal a similarity to some of the UFO phenomina happening on a regular basis and many of the things happening can be tied to the paranormal. We can re term these entities and call them anything we want to ,they are there and usually up to no good.

So it is not a card it is a possible option. Sometimes a very probable one.

 

[5tomidnite]

While I don't think anything even resembling the original proposition will ever occur I reserve the opinion to believe it could be lying spiritual entities. If you have eliminated this from your vocabulary there are other terms being thrown around- Inter-dimensional, space brothers, Extra terrestrials,yes I'm going to say it, evil spirits. No I don't believe in Santa Claus ;0)

Any objective study of the paranormal will reveal a similarity to some of the UFO phenomina happening on a regular basis and many of the things happening can be tied to the paranormal. We can re term these entities and call them anything we want to ,they are there and usually up to no good.

So it is not a card it is a possible option. Sometimes a very probable one.

I share your sentiment and I'm not prepared to remove "supernatural" entities ("evil" or otherwise) from the list of potential sources for the UFO or Alien phenomenon. However the problem with people using the demon card is that demons in the Modern/Christian sense do not exist. Before then demons were essentially guardian angels looking out for the interests of the person they watched over. It only became a "dirty" word because early Christianity had to eradicate the concept of "a personal god" to survive as a religion.

So to sum up. Believing in Modern/Christian demons is the equivalent of believing in Santa Claus. Otherwise I agree with you.

 

[Randall]

I share your sentiment and I'm not prepared to remove "supernatural" entities ("evil" or otherwise) from the list of potential sources for the UFO or Alien phenomenon. However the problem with people using the demon card is that demons in the Modern/Christian sense do not exist. Before then demons were essentially guardian angels looking out for the interests of the person they watched over. It only became a "dirty" word because early Christianity had to eradicate the concept of "a personal god" to survive as a religion. So to sum up. Believing in Modern/Christian demons is the equivalent of believing in Santa Claus. Otherwise I agree with you.

Good commentary on the "Transports From Hell Hypothesis". If we run mythology ( religious or otherwise ) through our objectivity filters, I wonder how much of it would distill out as probably true or useful in a practical sense, and how much would be composed of pure mythos. The Bible in all its different versions and interpretations seems to be a prime candidate for what we might call "classical docufiction". Is the only difference between docufiction and mythology the amount of time that has passed?

 

[5tomidnite]

Good commentary on the "Transports From Hell Hypothesis". If we run mythology ( religious or otherwise ) through our objectivity filters, I wonder how much of it would distill out as probably true or useful in a practical sense, and how much would be composed of pure mythos. The Bible in all its different versions and interpretations seems to be a prime candidate for what we might call "classical docufiction". Is the only difference between docufiction and mythology the amount of time that has passed?

Well thank you. I'm glad you liked it

I would say yes. The difference between docufiction and mythology is the time passed. Or at least I would say for the most part that's the case.

I'm sure somebody somewhere in the ancient world has managed to be accurate in there presenting of a subject and that it was people's interpreting that information that may have turned it into mythology. Or like I once told my brother, "Sometimes things are just written a certain way because that's how people spoke at the time. It doesn't mean the core of what they are saying isn't real. The language used is just confusing to people of later generations reading it."

 

[starise]

Believing in Modern/Christian demons is the equivalent of believing in Santa Claus.

Just a FYI..there really was a St.Nicholas who we now refer to as Santa. I am not really jibing with your take on Christianity though...

Is the only difference between docufiction and mythology the amount of time that has passed?

I think in some cases yes... I am not so certain that there isn't a shade of truth to the mythological gods of Greece,maybe just a hint of truth. Sometimes a thing happened so long ago and has been changed to an extent that the real story will never be totally known. I don't think the Bible is docufiction though.

 

[Ezechiel]

Sometimes a thing happened so long ago and has been changed to an extent that the real story will never be totally known. I don't think the Bible is docufiction though.

How would you qualify the Hindu Bhagavad-Gitas...
Bhagavad Gita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's an interesting case the Bahais Kiatab-aqdas... they recognize all the other books
The Bahá'ís: Do the Bahá’ís have a holy book?

Plenty to read here
Sacred-texts: World Religions

My personal favorite : Smokey the Bear Sutra
Smokey the Bear Sutra by Gary Snyder


Actually here's one that inspires quantum physicists:
Tao Te Ching - Translated by J. Legge

The Tao te Ching is one of the most widely read sacred texts, due to its simplicity and depth. It appeal is universal, and has been found relevant by Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, and even Quantum Physicists. Attributed to Lao-tzu, (580-500 B.C.), it may predate him by several centuries. The earliest known manuscripts of the Tao te Ching date to the third century B.C.
This translation is excerpted from Volume 39 of the Sacred Books of the East

 

[starise]

Hi Ezechiel,

Do you want my first impressions or a more in depth opinion here? Oh that Smokey bear sutra is hilarious! I wonder if he knows "yogi" the bear?

I have read references from these texts and shippets here and there....not enough to be fully qualified to give a total informed opinion on all aspects of the books. I think I have the jist of the belief system down pretty well but maybe not completely.

It would appear that Hinduism is one of the main beliefs here,with either historical or mythical references to gods similar to the greeks in some ways. A lot of these types of teachings have been the catalyst for movements that have gained some momentum here in the states.

Gods coming down to earth to give messages to men for life instruction and wisdom is a common thread in many teachings,myths and cultures.


Either men seen something or made something up. I think both are true. In some cases a deity was carefully constructed. In other cases there were entities or individuals who were regarded as gods. IMO too much of it is documented in ancient texts for it all to be considered make believe.

Don't get me wrong, I don't really believe the whole ancient alien story in light of further proof in that regard. But I do think ancient peoples were duped at times.