Travis Walton

[Stagger Lee]

Certainly, we can assume if a hoax was planned from the start, these young men had no way of knowing a multi-million dollar franchise would eventually happen. Consider, they lived in a small town- the ridicule that took place, even when investigators couldn't prove fraud- would follow them for a life time. Should a hoax have been proven, these guys couldn't show their faces in public, much less find employment. They might have been better off claiming Travis was abducted by a sasquatch, only to have escaped the yeti camp several days later.

 

[Myself]

There is no rumor in that paragraph. The numbers were not simply made up, books and films were made and are easily verifiable. Videos and updated books were also released and easily verifiable. Walton has also been doing appearances. It took about 10 seconds to find that he was doing one at the MUFON PA East Coast Conference held on October 4-6. As for "speculation", how is it unreasonable to surmise that from all that, some "modest returns" have been generated from the Fire In The Sky Franchise over all these years? Certainly something must have come Walton's way don't you think? Do you really think it's reasonable to believe nothing has? I make no claims of dump trucks full of money. I state in no uncertain terms that, "How much Walton and his crew have personally gained remains unclear." How exactly is that unreasonable? Sorry if the article bursts your bubble on Walton. Please try to be a little more objective. Only certain parts of the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest Incident have been verified with any degree of certainty, and Walton being onboard an alien craft isn't one of them.

If you wouldn't mind indulging me for a moment. Let's say everything happened as Travis and his crew says. Wouldn't there be a movie a book or something that garnered the public viewing. My point being, those things are inevitabilities of all extraordinary claims. Doesn't mean it's a hoax. otherwise everything is a hoax. The amount of evidence left behind is another issue of contention for me is this red herring of trace evidence. In any given case you may or may not have trace evidence. It doesn't make or break a case because we don't actually know what we are dealing with in a given case. Was it a ghost, an alien, the government? Which of those leaves trace evidence? So while I remain skeptical of the Walton case I need something that accounts for them passing those lie detector test before I write them off completely.

 

[Randall]

If you wouldn't mind indulging me for a moment. Let's say everything happened as Travis and his crew says. Wouldn't there be a movie a book or something that garnered the public viewing. My point being, those things are inevitabilities of all extraordinary claims. Doesn't mean it's a hoax. otherwise everything is a hoax. The amount of evidence left behind is another issue of contention for me is this red herring of trace evidence. In any given case you may or may not have trace evidence. It doesn't make or break a case because we don't actually know what we are dealing with in a given case. Was it a ghost, an alien, the government? Which of those leaves trace evidence? So while I remain skeptical of the Walton case I need something that accounts for them passing those lie detector test before I write them off completely.

Fair points. However taken into consideration along with the other details, my point was that without sufficient verifiable evidence, credibility is pretty much all we have to go on, and Walton doesn't have any. In fact he's got it going against him. One of the things I found interesting is that he showed no medical signs of starvation or dehydration. These weren't simply observations, but from the results of sample tests. So I suppose the aliens fed and watered him too. I also wouldn't be surprised to find this conveniently explained in his revised book.

Regarding the lie detector tests. We know Walton failed one test and that the ones he passed are reported reportedly involved some manipulation. If you want to get into rumor, which I don't include in the article, there is a write-up up on the Internet by someone who supposedly has it on good authority that Walton was hiding out at an acquaintance's place. I'll try to dig it up if you want to check it out, and it's far more damning that my article. Yet given all the reasons to suspect a hoax, I still admit that even people with bad credibility can have extraordinary experiences. Given the circumstances I think that's exceedingly fair.

 

[Myself]

Fair points. However taken into consideration along with the other details, my point was that without sufficient verifiable evidence, credibility is pretty much all we have to go on, and Walton doesn't have any. In fact he's got it going against him. One of the things I found interesting is that he showed no medical signs of starvation or dehydration. These weren't simply observations, but from the results of sample tests. So I suppose the aliens fed and watered him too. I also wouldn't be surprised to find this conveniently explained in his revised book.

Regarding the lie detector tests. We know Walton failed one test and that the ones he passed are reported reportedly involved some manipulation. If you want to get into rumor, which I don't include in the article, there is a write-up up on the Internet by someone who supposedly has it on good authority that Walton was hiding out at an acquaintance's place. I'll try to dig it up if you want to check it out, and it's far more damning that my article. Yet given all the reasons to suspect a hoax, I still admit that even people with bad credibility can have extraordinary experiences. Given the circumstances I think that's exceedingly fair.

I like your website. It's very well done.

 

[Randall]

I like your website. It's very well done.

Thank you very much ! BTW, if you should find any other relevant information about the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest Incident, by all means let me know. While I make every effort to be fair, it's also very important to remain as objective as possible, even skeptical, but not too skeptical, or we'll lose credibility. I'm glad you understand.

 

[Burnt State]

I've worked hard to disbelieve Walton, even questioning his character based on a previous scam attempt by him that fell apart. But what is highly compelling in this story are the following points: the story has yet to change compared to other classic cases such as Bentwaters where witnesses have gone through multiple mutations, no one in the crew has spoke out against the story despite attempts to bribe them into contradicting the event, the narrative itself is entirely fascinating with interior craft and personnel descriptions that are convincingly original and surreal with appropriate moments of magic. No other abduction case has as much credence as this one IMHO.

 

[Enceladus]

There is no rumor in that paragraph. The numbers were not simply made up, books and films were made and are easily verifiable. Videos and updated books were also released and easily verifiable. Walton has also been doing appearances. It took about 10 seconds to find that he was doing one at the MUFON PA East Coast Conference held on October 4-6. As for "speculation", how is it unreasonable to surmise that from all that, some "modest returns" have been generated from the Fire In The Sky Franchise over all these years? Certainly something must have come Walton's way don't you think? Do you really think it's reasonable to believe nothing has? I make no claims of dump trucks full of money. I state in no uncertain terms that, "How much Walton and his crew have personally gained remains unclear." How exactly is that unreasonable? Sorry if the article bursts your bubble on Walton. Please try to be a little more objective. Only certain parts of the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest Incident have been verified with any degree of certainty, and Walton being onboard an alien craft isn't one of them.

I have no idea whether Travis Walton is telling the truth or not, but I fail to see how the fact that Walton has subsequently made money from his story has any relevance whatsoever to whether it is true or not. Following that logic, we cannot have landed on the moon because Armstrong et al made plenty of money on the back of that "story". let's stick to what's actually relevant.

 

[Randall]

I have no idea whether Travis Walton is telling the truth or not, but I fail to see how the fact that Walton has subsequently made money from his story has any relevance whatsoever to whether it is true or not. Following that logic, we cannot have landed on the moon because Armstrong et al made plenty of money on the back of that "story". let's stick to what's actually relevant.

The difference is that Armstrong had credibility and substantial evidence on his side. Travis has neither, so the fact is that although the circumstances may not be relevant to the objective truth of the incident, whatever that was ( we still don't know ), but we do know they are relevant to the issue of believability. Do you not think the believability of a case is relevant? I do.

 

[Enceladus]

The difference is that Armstrong had credibility and substantial evidence on his side. Travis has neither, so the fact is that although the circumstances may not be relevant to the objective truth of the incident, whatever that was ( we still don't know ), but we do know they are relevant to the issue of believability. Do you not think the believability of a case is relevant? I do.

I agree that believability is important but the fact he made some money from a film, book etc is irrelevant unless you can prove he planned it all in advance, which you can't. If something similar happened to me I would take the money offered for my story, but it wouldn't make the story any less true.

In terms of believability I would say that if it was a hoax, the fact that none of his co-workers or their wives, brothers, sisters or friends have ever revealed "the truth" is unbelievable.

 

[Randall]

I agree that believability is important but the fact he made some money from a film, book etc is irrelevant unless you can prove he planned it all in advance, which you can't. If something similar happened to me I would take the money offered for my story, but it wouldn't make the story any less true. In terms of believability I would say that if it was a hoax, the fact that none of his co-workers or their wives, brothers, sisters or friends have ever revealed "the truth" is unbelievable.

There is the issue of the tabloid reward which seemed to have been planned in advance, so why stop there? As for all the rest, well what are they going to do, admit those closest to them pulled a hoax which could end up with them having to pay for the expense of the search and possibly even charges. Sure it's been so long now maybe nobody would care about charges, except that people would still know, and anything they had going for them reputation wise would be ruined. Would you come forward and rat out all your friends and family? Plus anyone who does claim to have information is simply written off by the believers as rumor or unworthy of serious consideration. Maybe that is fair. But then again how much real evidence is there for the Walton story? Here's a story you might be interested in. Maybe it's all rumor. But then again maybe the leaks aren't as tightly sealed as you think:

http://ufomedia.blogspot.ca/2010/07/sherifs-nephew-claims-travis-walton.html

Try to bear in mind that the only certain opinion I have about the case is as has been expressed in the USI article, which is that the case remains unresolved. I am neither a believer nor a denier. Furthermore, the incident took place a long time ago, and people have spoken well about Travis since then, so if this is his only indiscretion, there are certainly worse people out there among those names "who shall not be mentioned" as they say on the Paracast.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Ufology - why would you find it strange that aliens might have fed Walton? If he was taken due to his near-fatal injuries (one theory) I can't see anything particularly weird about him being fed. Part of any medical care of someone incapacitated is surely to hydrate and feed? Of all the things in the Walton story, I find that part not even worthy of mention.

 

[Randall]

Ufology - why would you find it strange that aliens might have fed Walton? If he was taken due to his near-fatal injuries (one theory) I can't see anything particularly weird about him being fed. Part of any medical care of someone incapacitated is surely to hydrate and feed? Of all the things in the Walton story, I find that part not even worthy of mention.

So first the aliens were so incompetent that they accidentally zapped Walton, but then just also happened to be prepared to provide medical care? That's the equivalent of a deer that just happens to run out in front of a mobile veterinary bus that just happens to know how to care for injured antelope and has all the supplies and food on hand to look after it for several days and release it back into the wild.

Even though that is actually a plausible scenario here on Earth where there are hundreds of thousands of deer and some number of mobile veterinarians, the chances of it happening are so vanishingly small that I've never heard of a single incident. Yet when aliens from who knows where zap a curious forestry worker, you somehow find a rationale to think it's not "particularly weird"?

I'll grant that some sort of interstellar red-cross saucer capable of treating alien species isn't impossible. But really? Just seeing an alien craft is weird enough, let alone being zapped by one, not to mention the rest of the Walton story. But OK, let's presume that he was nursed back to health by the aliens, then we still have the same questions as some other abductees, like since they fed and watered him for a few days, where were the bathrooms? Or did that get added into the revised version of his book?

Also, since nothing unusual was detected in his medical samples, I suppose the aliens had a ready supply of human food on their shuttle craft. Who knows, maybe they went shopping at the local supermarket and cooked him up a nice pot of chicken soup? Sorry but I don't know how you can see any of this as "not even worthy of mention". I'll grant that's it's not something that should make front page news, but not even a mention?

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

The story in parts smells of ..and just thinking of all those missing folks!!... around the World and this story could of gone in a extreme horror story. Not surprised if big foot and yeti were on the craft.

 

[Burnt State]

I believe the nature of the story is that Walton felt like he had only been away for hours and not a week. The implication is that for most of the time on board he was held in stasis while being cared for, bodily fluids and all, hence the lack of ketones in his urine. Maybe he was lying right beside ufology's unconscious deer and didn't even know it?

Given the capacity for 'magic,' that typifies what alien technology would be capable of, nursing a human, some deer and a yeti back to life, should be no problem at all.

 

[Myself]

I believe the nature of the story is that Walton felt like he had only been away for hours and not a week. The implication is that for most of the time on board he was held in stasis while being cared for, bodily fluids and all, hence the lack of ketones in his urine. Maybe he was lying right beside ufology's unconscious deer and didn't even know it?

Given the capacity for 'magic,' that typifies what alien technology would be capable of, nursing a human, some deer and a yeti back to life, should be no problem at all.

Burntstate can you expound on the "magic" you mentioned and why you chose that verbiage?

 

[Myself]

So first the aliens were so incompetent that they accidentally zapped Walton, but then just also happened to be prepared to provide medical care? That's the equivalent of a deer that just happens to run out in front of a mobile veterinary bus that just happens to know how to care for injured antelope and has all the supplies and food on hand to look after it for several days and release it back into the wild.

Even though that is actually a plausible scenario here on Earth where there are hundreds of thousands of deer and some number of mobile veterinarians, the chances of it happening are so vanishingly small that I've never heard of a single incident. Yet when aliens from who knows where zap a curious forestry worker, you somehow find a rationale to think it's not "particularly weird"?

I'll grant that some sort of interstellar red-cross saucer capable of treating alien species isn't impossible. But really? Just seeing an alien craft is weird enough, let alone being zapped by one, not to mention the rest of the Walton story. But OK, let's presume that he was nursed back to health by the aliens, then we still have the same questions as some other abductees, like since they fed and watered him for a few days, where were the bathrooms? Or did that get added into the revised version of his book?

Also, since nothing unusual was detected in his medical samples, I suppose the aliens had a ready supply of human food on their shuttle craft. Who knows, maybe they went shopping at the local supermarket and cooked him up a nice pot of chicken soup? Sorry but I don't know how you can see any of this as "not even worthy of mention". I'll grant that's it's not something that should make front page news, but not even a mention?

You tend to find the most mundane things to be ridiculous when it comes to this case. The fact that a lab rat was given nutrition and then nothing odd was found in Walton upon examination is odd to you. He ate something and then excreted it. That's pretty basic. Additionally, while humoring us all you are lining up a particular narrative. That being the idea that this case has something to do with "Aliens". What if they were something else? What if this encounter was "something else"?

 

[Goggs Mackay]

So first the aliens were so incompetent that they accidentally zapped Walton, but then just also happened to be prepared to provide medical care? That's the equivalent of a deer that just happens to run out in front of a mobile veterinary bus that just happens to know how to care for injured antelope and has all the supplies and food on hand to look after it for several days and release it back into the wild.

Even though that is actually a plausible scenario here on Earth where there are hundreds of thousands of deer and some number of mobile veterinarians, the chances of it happening are so vanishingly small that I've never heard of a single incident. Yet when aliens from who knows where zap a curious forestry worker, you somehow find a rationale to think it's not "particularly weird"?

I'll grant that some sort of interstellar red-cross saucer capable of treating alien species isn't impossible. But really? Just seeing an alien craft is weird enough, let alone being zapped by one, not to mention the rest of the Walton story. But OK, let's presume that he was nursed back to health by the aliens, then we still have the same questions as some other abductees, like since they fed and watered him for a few days, where were the bathrooms? Or did that get added into the revised version of his book?

Also, since nothing unusual was detected in his medical samples, I suppose the aliens had a ready supply of human food on their shuttle craft. Who knows, maybe they went shopping at the local supermarket and cooked him up a nice pot of chicken soup? Sorry but I don't know how you can see any of this as "not even worthy of mention". I'll grant that's it's not something that should make front page news, but not even a mention?

No I don't see it worthy of mention - IF we are talking about advanced beings capable of making a spacecraft, providing nourishment to another humanoid (consider Walton says he met humanoids as well as another kind on larger craft or facility) is no biggy surely?
I also can easily go for the fact that possibly the craft was intending to leave and was powering up and possibly some kind of electrical discharge was caused by Walton getting to close - we'll simply never know enough though.

As for toilets, again, there were humanoids already and if Walton was incapacitated, well how do you think toilet stuff is done for people in a coma? It really is of the smallest consequence for anyone capable of building a spacecraft like described. Of course none of us can confirm any of this but compared to making and operating such craft, feeding and toilet stuff really is so far down the easy scale I can't understand any problem with it?

 

[Randall]

No I don't see it worthy of mention - IF we are talking about advanced beings capable of making a spacecraft, providing nourishment to another humanoid (consider Walton says he met humanoids as well as another kind on larger craft or facility) is no biggy surely?

I think "no biggie" is a rather large assumption. Imagine if it were the other way around. We send a mother ship off to some alien world where our shuttle accidentally lands on some alien life form. But not to worry because we just happen to know how to fix these aliens and keep a ready supply of whatever they use as nourishment ( assuming they even eat in the first place ) back on the mother ship, where we can hang around for a few days undetected, and then deliver the alien back to its native environment, also without being noticed. We can do all that, but can't notice them approaching us in the first place with a lit up primitive ground vehicle that stops to let one of the aliens out so that it can run up and get caught in our landing gear? Sure, why would we have any problem believing that?

I also can easily go for the fact that possibly the craft was intending to leave and was powering up and possibly some kind of electrical discharge was caused by Walton getting to close - we'll simply never know enough though.

I can "easily go for the fact that possibly" it was all a hoax before I would "easily go for the fact that possibly" aliens did their version of road kill on Travis Walton, but fixed him all up and dropped him off back at the local gas station.

As for toilets, again, there were humanoids already and if Walton was incapacitated, well how do you think toilet stuff is done for people in a coma?

I think it's done in a hospital while under life support by doctors who are experienced and equipped and knowledgeable about treating humans. I think it's a big leap to assume that aliens are that well prepared to deal with the medical needs of a species alien to them. I'm not saying it's impossible. Just that I don't think it's something that should simply be taken for granted.

It really is of the smallest consequence for anyone capable of building a spacecraft like described. Of course none of us can confirm any of this but compared to making and operating such craft, feeding and toilet stuff really is so far down the easy scale I can't understand any problem with it?

That would mean that when they were building their spacecraft ( as you suggest ), they took into account that they might need to perform medical procedures on whatever alien life forms they might encounter at the destination, engineer that capacity into their spacecraft, and be prepared with a sufficient working knowledge of alien physiology and biology to treat them and leave no evidence of treatment behind that the alien's own doctors could detect. As a consequence pulling this off would require a whole bunch more fantastical assumptions, like that they can almost instantly assess something as complex as a humanoid alien life form and produce the medicine and tools needed, or that they have advance knowledge, which implies round trips of previous expeditions and spacecraft upgrades to accommodate medical bays for humans.

Apparently the aliens just happened to have an oxygen mask handy on the mother ship, which implies a ready supply of masks molded to fit the human face and a knowledge of what we can breathe. Sure, it's all possible, but to say that having all these requirements instantly met are "of the smallest of consequences" is trivializing just how much would actually be involved and required. Yet these same ultra amazing super sophisticated aliens who kept their mother ship and shuttles undetected for at least several days while they fixed Walton up were still so inept as to let a pickup truck full of forestry workers spot them, stop, watch them, and even allow one of the passengers to approach them and get zapped?

OK Goggs, I'm a believer in alien visitation. So I'll grant that maybe it all this happened just like Walton said it did. But I'm not going to overlook these other factors. I remain very skeptical of the Apache-Sitgreaves National forest incident a.k.a. the Walton incident, and I think that it's the most reasonable point of view.

 

[Han]

my five pence:

IF Alien/E.T visitation is a reality, I think that the "aliens" would have had plenty of practice in "dealing" with humans whilst aboard their ships, by the time Mr Walton was "taken".
It is my understanding that some people believe that "aliens" have been gathering information regarding "human" reproduction etc, and part of this process is to take the "human" on to the "ship" and scrutinize them, unlike cows it appears that they are only interested in living specimens, and therefore have to provide "life support" whilst the "subject" is on the ship.
The other thing that occurs to me is that if, as some people maintain, Aliens are "human" "Hybrids" then there is a possibility that their "life support" requirements would be very similar to a "humans". What I am trying to say is maybe the could have used "medical" equipment designed for use on themselves on Mr Walton. My understanding is that the majority of our own manned "research" vessels invariably carry first aid/medical equipment for the crew that operate them.

I am probably being dismissive and closed minded, but I do not believe that aliens more advanced than ourselves have ever visited "earth". In fact I do not believe that they exist at all. (in the traditional sense). I am however convinced that some cases are "real" in that the experiencer is totally convinced that what they have witnessed is true and very "real" to them. but that is another topic, so back to Mr Walton: I believe that it was a "prank" or practical joke that went wrong(e.g. chaining the bridegroom to a lamppost on a stag night) I am basing this solely on my "gut instinct", however this is as valid as the "evidence" or lack of. What I am saying is that the only evidence I am aware of, is the testimony of Mr Walton and his coworkers, so basically it is their word against mine (if you know what I mean).

 

[Goggs Mackay]

I think "no biggie" is a rather large assumption. Imagine if it were the other way around. We send a mother ship off to some alien world where our shuttle accidentally lands on some alien life form. But not to worry because we just happen to know how to fix these aliens and keep a ready supply of whatever they use as nourishment ( assuming they even eat in the first place ) back on the mother ship, where we can hang around for a few days undetected, and then deliver the alien back to its native environment, also without being noticed. We can do all that, but can't notice them approaching us in the first place with a lit up primitive ground vehicle that stops to let one of the aliens out so that it can run up and get caught in our landing gear? Sure, why would we have any problem believing that?

I can "easily go for the fact that possibly" it was all a hoax before I would "easily go for the fact that possibly" aliens did their version of road kill on Travis Walton, but fixed him all up and dropped him off back at the local gas station.

I think it's done in a hospital while under life support by doctors who are experienced and equipped and knowledgeable about treating humans. I think it's a big leap to assume that aliens are that well prepared to deal with the medical needs of a species alien to them. I'm not saying it's impossible. Just that I don't think it's something that should simply be taken for granted.

That would mean that when they were building their spacecraft ( as you suggest ), they took into account that they might need to perform medical procedures on whatever alien life forms they might encounter at the destination, engineer that capacity into their spacecraft, and be prepared with a sufficient working knowledge of alien physiology and biology to treat them and leave no evidence of treatment behind that the alien's own doctors could detect. As a consequence pulling this off would require a whole bunch more fantastical assumptions, like that they can almost instantly assess something as complex as a humanoid alien life form and produce the medicine and tools needed, or that they have advance knowledge, which implies round trips of previous expeditions and spacecraft upgrades to accommodate medical bays for humans.

Apparently the aliens just happened to have an oxygen mask handy on the mother ship, which implies a ready supply of masks molded to fit the human face and a knowledge of what we can breathe. Sure, it's all possible, but to say that having all these requirements instantly met are "of the smallest of consequences" is trivializing just how much would actually be involved and required. Yet these same ultra amazing super sophisticated aliens who kept their mother ship and shuttles undetected for at least several days while they fixed Walton up were still so inept as to let a pickup truck full of forestry workers spot them, stop, watch them, and even allow one of the passengers to approach them and get zapped?

OK Goggs, I'm a believer in alien visitation. So I'll grant that maybe it all this happened just like Walton said it did. But I'm not going to overlook these other factors. I remain very skeptical of the Apache-Sitgreaves National forest incident a.k.a. the Walton incident, and I think that it's the most reasonable point of view.

But remember, IF it is true at all, Walton described humanoid beings basically like us. No need for any extra-special medical equipment needed just in case of accident. It would be exactly what they use for themselves? If there are such humanoids then think we must be related to them anyway. It's all supposition anyway.