Tyder's Apology

[The Pair of Cats]

How ridiculous can it get? No one is after blood or his head! More disingenuous crap. These excuses for his behavior are absolutely childish and absurd. The guy has proven that he cannot be trusted. What is so hard to understand about that concept?

Quoted for truth.
He wasnt pushed to do anything, if you read his "explanation" he did it because he wanted to win....... Thats it, unable to make his point with honest and open discussion, he resorted to dirty tactics, the purpose ? in his own words to "win".
My thoughts exactly, if this goes unpunished then its the default standard from here on in, we may as well all whip up second accounts to be as insulting and as rowdy as we like.
Its now acceptable behaviour, as evidenced by the response of those who run the forum, and those making excuses for steve.
Turn a blind eye to this and the gold standard becomes a dirty pewter in hue

C'mon now you guys. You are acting like he broke into your homes, shot your wives and raped your cat! Maybe you should both step back a wee bit and have a look at how you are reacting or overreacting. Maybe you both spend too much time here. Get back out into the real world and get some perspective. I can't believe how hysterical some of the stuff being written here looks.

No-one has said that it acceptable to have sock puppet accounts, Mike. Not even a hint. Everybody here agrees that it is wrong. You seem to have pulled that out of your arse. It's pretty obvious that Steve doesn't like you Mike for some reason. He just went about telling you in a misguided way. If you have a problem with the gold standard being tarnished, take it up with Gene. Gene does not seem to have as big an issue as both of you and is prepared to give Steve some time out but not banishment. Not everybody wants him banned. Get over it. Get over yourself.

Ricky. No one is making excuses for Steve. Not me, Kim or anyone. You have taken what has been said in defence of Steve entirely the wrong way.I don't know how to make it any more clear to you. Steve fucked up. Simple. He has apologised and removed himself from the forums, perhaps for good who knows. That's good enough for Gene and it's good enough for me.
What we have offered here are possible explanations for WHY he may have acted like he did and asked for some consideration for his years of untarnished participation as reasons for not having him banned. If you never want to forgive him fine. But as for him returning at some stage, he would be welcome in my book.
And how are we expected to view your behavior in this Ricky? To me you seem to be coming across as an unyielding forum captain who, despite the owner's (Gene) adjudication on the matter, thinks that people here are not allowed to make mistakes and atone for them. Unforgiving and thin skinned perhaps. You are entitled to your opinion Ricky and i am sorry that you have been subjected to this unfortunate event but you have to remember that not everyone agrees with your handling of this either. Or your opinion on how it should be handled by Gene and the moderators. Even Angelo has said that he has made peace with Steve. And i don't see him calling for his banishment (unless i have missed that somewhere).
Both of you have said things here about Steve, subsequently, that are every bit as bad as what he has done. Does that make you both any better than he? I think not.
Get over it, move on!

 

[trainedobserver]

What do I have to do with another member's inability to act like a decent human being? Not a thing. If Gene wants to tolerate this sort of thing that is up to him. I don't have to and I won't. You and anyone else who has a problem with that can get over that or not, I couldn't care less.

 

[mike]

Phil i get that the vitriol being directed at him is harsh, it is
But go back through the posts of danny torrence, look at the vitriol he directed at some of us here......................

He's not entitled to a higher standard of treatment, than that he himself brought to the table.

He used this account over a period of weeks to belittle, insult and smear myself and others here.

Sauce for the goose..........

He has set the bar for the exchange, He has defined the tone, i didnt see you calling him out as Danny Torrence, but when we give as good as we got....... suddenly its a matter for your concern ?

But its more than that, its the dishonesty, cheering Gene on for trying to curb the shenanigans as Tyder, stiring up the shit as Danny. The rank hypocrisy of these actions.

This was NOT an impulsive one off event, it was a long running pre meditated series of gleeful personal attacks and insults and lies, designed to smear and assasinate the characters of people who as Tyder he professed were "friends".

As i said before Danny Torrence is the real personality behind the person we knew as Steve.

If we all did what he did, this forum would be worthless as a place to meet and discuss the paranormal.

He accused Stonehart of being me, of being a sockpuppet, while at the very same time using a sockpuppet account.........

He publically abused and insulted several of us , including the moderator, who gets little enough thanks for doing a dirty job, and who had always treated him fairly and with restraint and dignity.
What he got in repayment for that consideration is insults and contempt.

Now hes getting the same treatment he as Danny dished out, but at least its open and honest, we are not sniping at him from behind socks, and he is not entitled to a higher standard of treatment, than that he himself brought to the table.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap.......

"They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind",

He deserves this shitstorm.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

I understand why some of you, friends of Steve, feel betrayed. But his crime is basically posting dumb messages on a message board under another name.

He was caught (thanks Angelo).

He knows what he did, he apologized. If we all confessed to our sins here, the forum's database would explode.

I have seen the Torrance stuff.
While i empathize with yours and Ricky's sentiment, I believe that Gene's statement, above, is probably the last word on the Steve situation. Unless he has posted something different somewhere and i have missed it.

 

[mike]

Lets play with this scenario for a moment

I could use proxy servers to create accounts that look like they come from london, new york, tokyo, paris and rome.......

How would you like it if i had 3 dozen socks via proxys, all telling you your opinion is rubbish and backing TO and I ?

For every post you make saying ease off, i dump 30 posts from 30 different accounts , 30 different countrys all saying you are wrong..........

The majority would win the argument.

Your POV would be buried under the weight of mine, the vast VAST majority of posts would agree with me, and your opinion would be negated in the larger picture.One person using Steves tactics can diminish your opinion into the trashcan of tiny minority, instead of having a voice in this or any discussion, your posts get buried as the minority opinion.


Thats what the sockpuppet can do to online discussions if left unchecked.

I can use socks to stack the vote, to shout you down, to drown your pov in a sea of contrary opinion.

Thats the principle behind my objection to this behaviour.

If we ALL created a dozen or more socks via proxy, the discussion here would be worthless

10 people here say the one armed bandit is a fraud, i could have 30 "people" say hes the real deal. a new or casual visitor would get a strong impression the majority of users here think billy liar is kosher..................

That is why in most forums people caught using socks get permabanned, One person with the technical savvy can dominate if they so desire, they can manipulate the discussion and create a false sense of democratic consensus.

This behaviour is a bloody cancer where online forums are concerned, cut it out before it spreads and kills the host..................

 

[mike]

I have seen the Torrance stuff.

Yeah and you didnt say a damn thing at the time, so what gives you a right to criticise us for replying in kind ?

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Phil i get that the vitriol being directed at him is harsh, it is
But go back through the posts of danny torrence, look at the vitriol he directed at some of us here......................
He's not entitled to a higher standard of treatment, than that he himself brought to the table.
He used this account over a period of weeks to belittle, insult and smear myself and others here.
Sauce for the goose..........
He has set the bar for the exchange, He has defined the tone, i didnt see you calling him out as Danny Torrence, but when we give as good as we got....... suddenly its a matter for your concern ?

More like it's a concern to me that someone like him would change like that for no apparent reason. I am more concerned with his well being than your bruised ego. I think you can handle it, can you not. If not, HTFU.
He' s entiltled to be given the verdict of the forum owner which has been handed down, i believe. (see last post).
I have never condoned what he did and would never condone any similar acts by anyone else either. I have said so several times in this discourse.

As i said before Danny Torrence is the real personality behind the person we knew as Steve.

Wow that's quite a leap, isn't it? Have you now added psychologist to your list of professional attributes? I think that you maybe want that to be true. Your stretching it a bit now matey!!!

If we all did what he did, this forum would be worthless as a place to meet and discuss the paranormal.

Well we don't now do we Mike? It was an aberration. Am aberration on Steve's behalf and one in regards to the regular safe running of the forum and was picked up by a forum moderator.

He publically abused and insulted several of us , including the moderator, who gets little enough thanks for doing a dirty job, and who had always treated him fairly and with restraint and dignity.
What he got in repayment for that consideration is insults and contempt.

If you are referring to Angelo, I believe he has said that he has made his peace with Steve. I prefer to think Angelo can speak his own truth there.

What do I have to do with other another member's inability to act like a decent human being? Not a thing. If Gene wants to tolerate this sort of thing that is up to him. I don't have to and I won't. You and anyone else who has a problem with that can get over that or not, I couldn't care less.

In the grand scheme of things, i could care less. This is just a forum with anonymous, largely unidentifiable characters with various opinions varying from the insightful to the ridiculous. It does not shape my life as it should not shape yours.
I care more for the fact that Steve may be unwell and would hope that he seeks the appropriate help.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Yeah and you didnt say a damn thing at the time, so what gives you a right to criticise us for replying in kind ?

Because you are overreacting and behaving as bad if not worse than he did. You talk about behavior and then proceed to act like a child who can't get his own way. Get over it.
You can't justify acting like an arsehole just because he did. That makes you just as bad as him. C'mon mate, rise above this, move on.

 

[mike]

Since the use of sockpuppets isnt a banning offence here, i could if i wished over the next few months create dozens of accounts that would appear to be posting from all over the world.

Within a short time my "likes" would be over 9000, And i could bury the opinion of anyone who disagreed with mine, whole pages of support at a time.

A virtual rent a crowd who will chant my slogans and sing my praise........
So much chaff, you will never find a single grain of wheat. And if you disagree with my opinion, you will be drowned out by the insults and catcalls of all the vast majority who support my pov.

Personally one voice one vote seems fair and reasonable, but sockpuppet tactics are like tactical nukes...... If one side has them i need them too, if he has 10, i need 20........

And what at first glance seems to be the consensus opinion, can just be the opinion of the single person with the most socks............

 

[mike]

Because you are overreacting and behaving as bad if not worse than he did. You talk about behavior and then proceed to act like a child who can't get his own way. Get over it.
You can't justify acting like an arsehole just because he did. That makes you just as bad as him. C'mon mate, rise above this, move on.

Again "Danny" was active here for many weeks, you said nothing.

Am i acting as bad as he did ? No im not using a SOCKPUPPET to troll you or him

Are you being a hypocritical arsehole for calling Trained and I out, but not "Danny" yes you are.

Which renders your pov invalid in my book

Yes i am being as "rude" as danny, but its not a ban-able offence by the looks, You dont like it ?
Get over it.................

Maybe i should create a couple of socks to troll you, call you an idiot......
Wonder how long your tolerance would last then ?

 

[mike]

This person might post

"ive just read you claim to be a psychic Phil....... that made me throw up in my mouth a little.
How can you people tolerate another sylvia browne wannabe BS artist.
These idiots just fleece people for money, preying on the stupid"

"i cant believe some of you will listen to this woo woo merchant, he needs help, hes sick.
No one has psychic powers, anyone who says they do is deluded, they BS themselfs and charge money to BS others, but hey this is the paracast, i guess these idiots get a voice here"

Thats the thing about socks, they negate the normal social nicetys like if you cant say something nice, dont say anything.

Bugger that whip up a couple of socks and give the BS artists both barrels......

 

[mike]

Wow that's quite a leap, isn't it? Have you now added psychologist to your list of professional attributes?

Think about it........
Using the Danny Torrence account he was FREE to say what he really felt about us.
And he did, he didnt hold back, he was honest about what he really felt, and said what was in his heart.

You dont need to be a rocket scientist to see this.

He used Danny to say what he really felt.........

Ergo "Danny" was the unrestrained the uncensored truth of how he feels

That should be obvious to anyone, you dont need to be a psychologist to see that.

He was free to give us the uncensored version of his opinion, and he did just that.

What we saw in Danny, was the uncensored Steve, the real Steve.

And its clear he holds Psychics, remote viewing, and the paranormal and the paracast audience in contempt

Its obvious reading "Danny" the long standing member you thought you knew, was biting his tongue, pretending to have an open mind about the paranormal. But with Danny he was free to tell us how he really feels...........And he did just that in black and white

He even referenced his membership at the JREF forums, where your claim of psychic ability would see you chased by an angry mob with pitchforks and torches.......

 

[The Pair of Cats]

The reason i have left it to now to say anything is simply because i haven't been on the forums for a while. You see i have something called "a life", which includes work and other interests that prevents me from regularly immersing myself in the murky depths of the paranormal forums. Unlike yourself who seems to be here 24/7 analyzing everybody's posts from your computer armchair. Therefore i missed all of the "as it happened", blow by terrible blow first hand accounts.
Everything you describe has happened to me on these forums, already. I have had run ins with some most unsavory characters. Some i think were sock puppets. Some came here just to harass me about my beliefs just for a moment and then disappeared. I have gotten somewhat used to negative impact and the ridicule. Over time i have developed a thicker skin to it all, although it's by no means perfected, yet, lol. If someone, a sock puppet or otherwise gives me shit i deal with them all the same way. I give them shit back. I could care less really that they may be exposed as a sock puppet down the track, my message will have got across just the same. And if 30-50 sock puppets rock up for a verbal, then bring'em on!!!
As far as who the real Danny/Steve is/was or maybe, i'll leave that up to the professionals to make that call, not you Mike. It's dangerous territory to try and be an armchair psychologist. I thought you would have figured that out by now.
All i can say is that Steve must have shown some God almighty, super restraint for many years, not turning into Danny Torrence sooner. Why pick now to come out of the sock drawer, eh? Personally I think you are way off the mark.
But hey i get it. Your egos a little injured, you got called a few names. You now fear that Gene, Angelo, Chris and Sean are going to get swamped by a veritable Tyde(r) (sorry Steve) of rampaging sock puppets like a yellow horde of trolls coming over the mountain to strike fear into the heart of every honest, law abiding forum user. NOT GONNA HAPPEN, MATEY!!!
Like I said, Gene has got this all under control. He's been running this forum for a good many years successfully and safely. I have every confidence that he will continue to do so for many years to come. But hey don't believe me. If you haven't already, ask Gene why Steve wasn't punished to your satisfaction. It's his forum. Don't lose your shit at me over it.

 

[mike]

If someone, a sock puppet or otherwise gives me shit i deal with them all the same way. I give them shit back.

And thats what some of us are doing now, get over it you pompus idiot.

No wonder you sympathize with Steve, its the same "Do as i say but not as i do" hypocrisy.

Do you really believe the opinion of someone who claims, what was it an 80 percent success rate in their psychic readings ? is worth anything to me ?

Bwaaahh ha ha ha

Your just another head up the ass delusional Woo merchant.

Did you really just tell us you reserve the right to give shit back to those who give it to you, while simultaneously having the pompus arrogance to lecture some of us for doing the same ?

You bloody hypocrite, delusional, self serving woo pedling hypocrite

Come back when you have learned how to use some critical thinking.

80 percent sucess rate psychic..... nahhhhh matey 100 percent sucess rate BS artiste

I'll let danny respond to your claims of psychic ability

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Mmmm, I hadn't known how personal a lot of that was. Steve, Steve - Mike makes an excellent point in that whatever he says, is his and he publicly owns it. I had hoped we all do. Sad that is not the case.


Oh and Mike - as you well know, I am another of those who think your sci fi collection of stuff is just excellent! Does that mean I need mental help too ?(don't answer!)

 

[Goggs Mackay]

@Kim - I just have to say that when you wrote something along the lines of 'steve being pushed to the limit' - well I for one like Steve and am concerned as to why he felt he should do what he did. But no-one is 'pushed beyond their limit' in an internet forum. If coming here is so injurious to one's wellbeing then I can only suggest not coming here. No-one is forced to post and read posts so there is no excuse for hiding behind a mask.

Anyway, the really weird part is that I've seen plenty of times in which Steve undoubtedly spoke his mind and he certainly didn't shrink from an argument, so the point I am making is that I don't see why he just didn't say what he said under his own name?

Like others, I've had private conversations on here with Steve and I am flabbergasted that he chose to use a fake profile to say anything he didn't want associated with his own profile. But why? To me that is admitting there is either something very wrong with what the normal profile has been saying or there is something very wrong with what the fake one is saying - they cannot be both true to one person surely?

Anyway - the forum 'friendship' I feel I have for Steve is enough for me to forgive him (yes, he did not attack me) whilst acknowledging what he did was very, very wrong.

I hope Steve feels better and a bit more like the Tyder I knew 6months ago.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I think that Danny Torrance was trying his best to be the "asshole skeptic" character to make people like me and Lance look like jerks. I honestly don't think he believed half of what he said. However, there may have been some truth to what he thought - sometimes he was trying to be nice to everyone and this character allowed him to speak his mind on many topics. I'm just wondering what Phil would have said if he had come across what Danny said about him before the truth came out - I'm sure he would have been angry as it was kind of mean. Mike and Rick have the right to be angry.
Kim has a penchant for the dramatic, and I'm surprised he never chimed in while Danny was on his rampage.

 

[Kim323]

Yes, I plead nolo contendere to the following descriptors, crimes, and behavior :

1. Dramatic
2. Pedantic
3. Factual
4. Skeptical
5. Ploddingly Destructive of Outrageous Stories, Vanished Civilizations, Catholic Conspiracy Theories, Alien Visitation and Abductions, Anthropomorphized Intelligent Extraterrestrials, Intelligently Piloted ET Craft with Antennae and Flashing Lights, Lost Knowledge, Giza as a Conduit for Outer Space Vibes, "They Couldn't Do It" "Theories" about Baalbek, Shut Down All Nuclear Plants Yesterday, and Other Wild and Woolly Ideas Put Forth Willy Nilly and Helter Skelter from Unsourced and Alternative Websites in the Internet Jungle

Sentencing will take place soon, and we all hope Kim serves a very long term in a very punitive penal institution.

Phil and I have, ad nauseam, pointed out that we do not agree with what Steve did.

Yes, Steve's alter ego did attract my attention, and I thought it went too far, but yes again, I couldn't help but note at the time that it was no more a campaign of vitriol than some here use on a regular basis, two examples of which (on this very thread) are the Special Olympics picture and vile accompanying comment, and the one just above calling Phil all sorts of vile stuff. This is the modus operandi of some on a regular basis, and just because they proclaim long and loud that they do it under their "own" monikers it's all just fine and dandy.

Steve's alter ego called me a "religious dude" who went "on and on." At least two here feel I should have taken offense at that, that I "copped a serve" on the part of Steve. I'm not sure what CAS means exactly, but I do plead guilty as charged by Steve's alter ego.

I am religious, I am a dude, and I do go on and on. And marshaling facts and going on and on (and on) on the topics enumerated in #5 above is a charge I have already pleaded to, and awaiting sentence upon, and I do not look forward to any leniency from the judges.

You know, reread this thread, people. Note how Phil and I write, yes, passionately, yet we have a "penchant" for writing tongue in cheek, for some subtlety and humor, for some facetiousness. Note how many here are just plain gleeful, one at being the one who caught the miscreant (and I agree that Steve should have been caught, but the self adulation is a bit much), and others who I note as being gleeful to the point of vile profanity and self righteousness.

Ok, enough from me. I did write this tongue in cheek, it's all really a bit fun actually, I don't mean to offend anybody, but come on, the reaction is way (way) over the top when Steve's alter ego did nothing that some do not do on a regular basis.

And really, come on, reread Phil's posts. He's actually a very broadminded guy who writes with a real knack for humor, and he is pointing out some stuff that is funny and ironic, like the 24/7 observation he made. I can take or leave this forum, there's really nothing I find particularly challenging in most of the topics, but I do feel that some of what is said should not go unchallenged. And yes, I'll say it again: why isn't a moderator admonishing the member who posted that Special Olympics picture and accompanying comment?

That was rhetorical. No need to answer.

Kim (I checked in the mirror, and though I needed a shave, a haircut, a facewash, and a nose hair trimming, it was, to my horror and consternation, all massive and handsome and studly 6 feet 6 inches of me, muscled and impressive). I made all the faces at myself that are illustrated in the funny faces list we all employ, but it was, indisputably, me. We all have different sides, and though Steve did indeed deserve to be caught, I do feel that some perspective should be provided for those who look in the mirror and see only perfection, righteousness, reasonableness and courageous fortitude.

Kim (again), but it's still me.

 

[Wade]

"... I think that Danny Torrance was trying his best to be the "asshole skeptic" character to make people like me and Lance look like jerks. I honestly don't think he believed half of what he said...."

I felt that too, although I would have never guessed who it was or even that it was a current member I felt there was a very strong Contrarian (?) element to some of his posts ( as danny torrance) and he had a targeted audience in his mind, anyone of whom could have agreed with him at some point and he probably woulda have turned it around on you just out of spite. He must have been or is a very sensitive person because I never saw any flagrent against him, perhaps part of it he cast upon hisself, without pointing fingers at anyone particular, there is a segment of our population that tends to always find themselves in a siege mentality (brought on themselves) as their feelings make buck a trend or be a minority viewpoint in any given arena and they take it upon themselves to fight the good fight and it's usually of their own making. I consider myself spiritual as I do think we have a higher purpose and there is a higher power or conscious. I think I've mentioned that but I'm not belligerent about it , I think some have noticed that and I've never been called out on it what's more I'm comfortable in my skin...and from what I can tell some of my best buddies in this forum may not necessarily share this viewpoint and all is nice-nice between us...

Apparently tyder felt differently and In this case maybe he didn't want to do it as tyder so he split his personality and felt better doing it as danny or more likely he knew if he came on too strong as tyder he would be banned so he created his sock puppet and didn't think anyone would be smart enough (WRONG!!!) to finger him. lastly I would point out this possibility (I'm sure most of you figured this out already) the reason he didn't take his disagreements to private conversations with you guys as he wanted ALL to see his posts to you. A little public payback. You don't do that unless you're itching.for a fight. he probably felt empowered by his brief anominity and it got him in the end

And @kim , about stoneharts post with the special olympics theme, I'm quite sure I'm on solid ground here in stating he was being sardonic, no matter what your achievements are , your opinions are or how much you justify something there is always a certain segment of people that will see things in a different light. At least that's what I took home. as far as his medium, I wouldn't have the cojones to use that but at the same time I have in the past volunteered at the special olympics here in the past and I wasn't offended and I can say when these kids compete they wouldn't give a rats ass what other peoples assessment of then are even if it is intentional cynicism or tongue-in-cheek cynicism, if that helps.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

I suppose at the end of the day the only real harm is possibly what Steve has done to himself and the harm to his reputation.

However, even though I am not at all religious, I've said before that I consider myself to have the very same qualities that many religious people claim or aspire to - that is, trying to be good rather than bad, to help rather than hinder, to lend a hand to those with less, to not strive to make my life more comfortable at the expense of others - I could continue but the Sainthood's aren't being handed out for another 6 months so I'll campaign closer to the time

Sorry, my point is that I always try to feel I can forgive - I've been forgiven many times and it is not something solely in the domain of any one group.

So I personally hope Steve can be forgiven by those who felt they were unfairly treated and that after some reflection he can come back and rebuild bridges he burned.

@Kim - I agree that Steve's 'crime' is perhaps no worse than some other people's on here but I do see it quite differently when done by a fake account. Most humans dislike not being able to see a face - imagine how you'd feel if everyone in your city took to wearing ski-masks all day - and from my point of view this is the aspect that was worst with what Steve did.