UFO best guesses, double takes, and what you have come to term, Myth or Reality

[Jeff Davis]

Over the years I have found myself returning to several key (to me anyway) themes or issues within UFO relevant culture. One of them is assuredly abduction, which I still find myself taking a very strong interest in, but there are several others as well. One biggie for me personally of late is Bob Lazar. I resigned myself from following, or believing MR. Lazar, at least once in the past already. Post the initial circulated video's shock and awe, I thought of both Lear and Lazar at worst as being some sort of mirage men dynamic duo, or at best being UFOdom's glory seeking 2 stooges. However George Knapp has always really impressed me as a long time UFO investigative reporter. Knapp gives Bob the thumbs up to this day with respect to both their credibility. Then there is the fact that Lazar is currently a Michigan business man that has never once changed his story. Not even the tiniest bit, and this is despite a good deal of hardship within his personal life as a result of the whole UFO thing. Within this business he is markedly successful and maintains a very good reputation. I wonder how many here have seen the full videotaped interview Lazar did with Knapp a few years back?

Could John Lear have created a type guilt by association in mine, and the minds of many others as well? I don't think Lear has ever been out and outright outed, but his outlandish claims at times are nothing short of baron von munchausen cartoonish, if not utterly preposterous.

What are some of your own key issues or themes that you've struggled a little with through the years? Have you ever done a double take?

 

[Randall]

The closest thing to a turn-around for me is that when I was much younger I remember watching the original Chariots of the Gods television show and was right into the whole ancient aliens thing. Fortunately, my Dad, who was a professional geologist, was able to set me straight on a couple of things, and that made me begin to question claims more scientifically. More recently the Debunking Ancient Aliens video that can be found on YouTube and which I've posted on the forum elsewhere, has further reinforced my skepticism. I've included it again below for convenience.

​

However I do still tend to favor the idea that ancient peoples did see alien craft, even if the aliens had nothing to do with building megaliths. I have no real evidence to substantiate my bias in favor of alien visitation in ancient times. I just tend to lean on mythology and speculation. Maybe my bias is a leftover fascination with the idea that aliens have been coming here for a long time. It's not like I strongly believe they were here in ancient times, but I still think it's possible and can't help but wonder if some mythology is built on bits and pieces of true experiences.

 

[Jeff Davis]

The closest thing to a turn-around for me is that when I was much younger I remember watching the original Chariots of the Gods television show and was right into the whole ancient aliens thing. Fortunately, my Dad, who was a professional geologist, was able to set me straight on a couple of things, and that made me begin to question claims more scientifically. More recently the Debunking Ancient Aliens video that can be found on YouTube and which I've posted on the forum elsewhere, has further reinforced my skepticism. I've included it again below for convenience.

​

However I do still tend to favor the idea that ancient peoples did see alien craft, even if the aliens had nothing to do with building megaliths. I have no real evidence to substantiate my bias in favor of alien visitation in ancient times. I just tend to lean on mythology and speculation. Maybe my bias is a leftover fascination with the idea that aliens have been coming here for a long time. It's not like I strongly believe they were here in ancient times, but I still think it's possible and can't help but wonder if some mythology is built on bits and pieces of true experiences.

Oh how I can relate to this! I was one of those nerds marching around with my little Erich von Däniken paper backs in grade school. I think the first one I ever bought with my own money was "The Gold of The Gods"

I could not believe it when von Däniken out and outright admitted his own flimflam! Thank goodness I didn't come to know this in my earliest formative years. I do credit old Erich in leading me on though, to that bigger alternative picture wherein all manner of forbidden Fortean wonders lurked. That was indeed a good thing.

 

[Randall]

Oh how I can relate to this! I was one of those nerds marching around with my little Erich von Däniken paper backs in grade school. I think the first one I ever bought with my own money was "The Gold of The Gods"

I could not believe it when von Däniken out and outright admitted his own flimflam! Thank goodness I didn't come to know this in my earliest formative years. I do credit old Erich in leading me on though, to that bigger alternative picture wherein all manner of forbidden Fortean wonders lurked. That was indeed a good thing.

I like Gold Of The Gods the best out of the series. I don't think I've ever seen von Däniken's confession, but I just found this in Wikipedia:

In The Gold of the Gods, Däniken described an expedition through man-made tunnels within Cueva de los Tayos, a natural cave system in Ecuador, led by a local man named Juan Moricz. He reported seeing mounds of gold, strange statues, and a library containing metal tablets, all of which he considered to be evidence of ancient extraterrestrial visitation. A local priest, Father Crespi, stewarded a collection of the gold extraterrestrial relics, he said, with special permission from the Vatican. Moricz told Der Spiegel that there had been no expedition; Däniken's descriptions came from "a long conversation", and the photos in the book had been "fiddled".

During the 1974 interview, Däniken explained that although he had indeed seen the library and the artifacts in the tunnels, he had embellished some aspects of the story to make it more interesting. "In German we say a writer, if he is not writing pure science, is allowed to use some dramaturgisch Effekte — some theatrical effects," he said. "And that's what I have done." Four years later, he admitted that he had never been inside Cueva de los Tayos, and had fabricated the entire cave adventure. A geologist found no evidence of artificial tunnels in the area. Father Crespi's gold artifacts, according to an archeologist consulted by Der Spiegel, were mostly brass imitations sold locally as tourist souvenirs.

That sucks because the cave adventure was one of the best parts of the book! lol

 

[Red]

When I was a kid, I loved the show In Search of and I had liked Sitchin's early books.

I dropped everything related to these topics for a number of years. It was after Mirage Men was published and around the time a certain researcher got caught in falsifying his academic credentials and lying about his military service. I had gotten a little disgusted with the starry-eyed believers over the silent planes a little before that, I think I had been accused of being a disinfo agent or some such nonsense over that stupidity.
In the meantime I had discovered Julian Jaynes, Buddhism and Lovecraft. I felt they were a much better use of my time. This spring I had a weird time-slip episode that couldn't be explained by normal means, so I decided to come back for a bit.

 

[victimized]

When we live in the same atmosphere that is currently being destroyed by the conversion wavelength (artificial nuclear orbital signals), and the ancient advice states, that it too witnessed the UFO condition due to their own nuclear converting methods (stone levitation), then is it any wonder that the human mind is affected by the condition?

The atmosphere once interacting with our own bodies is removed in the condition of nuclear fuel's creation and then burning. We consider the atmosphere the spiritual body (ethereal) as personal mind advice. Therefore as we use the atmosphere, the removal of the atmosphere is considered by our own mind to be an abduction of our own life spirit. The reasoning is given to us as advice in the fed back communication awareness causation.

As the ancients also applied the UFO causation, it is obvious that the atmospheric body was changed, and the storm conditions increased....such as atmospheric suck up or the conditions for water spouts/hurricanes/tornados. Blood diseases introduced and also snap freeze.

Are there incidences that prove that human life was taken up into the air and moved and replaced.....yes.
Some tossed by twisters live to tell about it, but how?

Incan mummy frozen after human sacrifice still has infection in her lungs - offering a new insight into diseases of the past

Alien baby corpse (Aleshenka) found in Russia in 1996 – disappears after being taken by scientists for “research” | Altered Dimensions Paranormal

As the UFO condition has witnessed the opening of the atmosphere and sucking up water in the signal causation (burning of atmospheric gases/cooling of the gases) then obviously if you happen to be in the vicinity of the ground to atmosphere interactive signal then you too would get sucked into the interaction.

Obviously the UFO body form would produce a safety surround if it belonged to water intake, which would be why human life has been witness to the suck up and then place down experience. Why would any human being lie about such an experience, when the conditions are witnessed as an interactive scientific cause and effect?

 

[marduk]

Over the years I have found myself returning to several key (to me anyway) themes or issues within UFO relevant culture. One of them is assuredly abduction, which I still find myself taking a very strong interest in, but there are several others as well. One biggie for me personally of late is Bob Lazar. I resigned myself from following, or believing MR. Lazar, at least once in the past already. Post the initial circulated video's shock and awe, I thought of both Lear and Lazar at worst as being some sort of mirage men dynamic duo, or at best being UFOdom's glory seeking 2 stooges. However George Knapp has always really impressed me as a long time UFO investigative reporter. Knapp gives Bob the thumbs up to this day with respect to both their credibility. Then there is the fact that Lazar is currently a Michigan business man that has never once changed his story. Not even the tiniest bit, and this is despite a good deal of hardship within his personal life as a result of the whole UFO thing. Within this business he is markedly successful and maintains a very good reputation. I wonder how many here have seen the full videotaped interview Lazar did with Knapp a few years back?

Could John Lear have created a type guilt by association in mine, and the minds of many others as well? I don't think Lear has ever been out and outright outed, but his outlandish claims at times are nothing short of baron von munchausen cartoonish, if not utterly preposterous.

What are some of your own key issues or themes that you've struggled a little with through the years? Have you ever done a double take?

Gulf Breeze.

It had me. Hook line and sinker.

And now I don't believe a word of it.

Except one piece I couldn't find. I remember watching a show with whatshisname - Ed Walters - walking on a beach in florida, and panning up to see a UFO (small dotish kinda thing) hovering above. And then it shot off exactly like I've seen them do.

Maybe he just got lucky. Maybe there's something there and he embellished it. Or maybe it's just 'into the grey basket' with all of it.

 

[Randall]

Gulf Breeze.

It had me. Hook line and sinker.

And now I don't believe a word of it.

Except one piece I couldn't find. I remember watching a show with whatshisname - Ed Walters - walking on a beach in florida, and panning up to see a UFO (small dotish kinda thing) hovering above. And then it shot off exactly like I've seen them do.

Maybe he just got lucky. Maybe there's something there and he embellished it. Or maybe it's just 'into the grey basket' with all of it.

I caught onto the Gulf Breeze shenanigans the first time I saw the outdoor daylight video by Walters where they were making a fuss and running along the beach to see a UFO that wasn't visible on the screen until they zoomed way in on it, and in doing a little bit of research I found that the image was caused by the video camera's iris motor assembly, so it was obviously staged and fake, and therefore what else was? Then of course, we find out later that there's all the rest that we don't need to go into fight this moment. I don't doubt that people in Florida have had genuine UFO sightings. I just don't take Walter's claims seriously.

 

[marduk]

I caught onto the Gulf Breeze shenanigans the first time I saw the outdoor daylight video by Walters where they were making a fuss and running along the beach to see a UFO that wasn't visible on the screen until they zoomed way in on it, and in doing a little bit of research I found that the image was caused by the video camera's iris motor assembly, so if it was staged and fake, what else was? I don't doubt that people in Florida have had genuine UFO sightings. I just don't take Walter's claims seriously.

That's the one!

It looked real to me at the time.

Got a link?

 

[Randall]

That's the one!

It looked real to me at the time.

Got a link?

I think I have it on an old VHS tape someplace, but I'm having trouble finding it on the Internet. It's gotta be out there someplace though ( you'd think ) .

 

[marduk]

I think I have it on an old VHS tape someplace, but I'm having trouble finding it on the Internet. It's gotta be out there someplace though ( you'd think ) .

found it!

 

[Randall]

found it!

The one I'm trying to find is the one where the iris motor artifact is explained. It shows the actual camera part and how the artifact is reproduced, and it looks like the alleged UFO in the Walters beach video.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Gulf Breeze.

It had me. Hook line and sinker.

And now I don't believe a word of it.

Except one piece I couldn't find. I remember watching a show with whatshisname - Ed Walters - walking on a beach in florida, and panning up to see a UFO (small dotish kinda thing) hovering above. And then it shot off exactly like I've seen them do.

Maybe he just got lucky. Maybe there's something there and he embellished it. Or maybe it's just 'into the grey basket' with all of it.

That video shot is completely mind blowing. I can see it as clear as day in my mind reading your words. Always a favorite of mine as well. I think George Knapp may have used the clip in his best evidence on tape special as well, maybe not.

I can relate, I believed every word of it too until the gray basket came home to roost a couple years later. When reading the book initially all those years ago, I remember that I did find his whole abduction thing a bit questionable. The red flags really started to wag the UFO dog with respect to the translation drink, or hat or whatever it was that the aliens gave him, but I tuned 'em out en lieu de a great read. Same with Ray Fowler's books. Great reads but whoa...really out there.

So many lost credibility as being nothing more than myth makers, but still in yet, I still wonder all the time. I think that so many times it starts out with some real degree of truth and legitimacy, and in the end somehow fantasy as gain and grandeur enter into the equation and everything goes gray. Still in yet, in almost each and every case, I am inclined to believe that there may in fact be a decent size swath of truth to many of these phenomenal considerations.

 

[Jeff Davis]

found it!

I don't think this is the shot that I am referring to, although it could be at a much lower resolution. The object I remember Knapp showing was a small object that can be seen very clearly and as it takes off it smears or blurs as if almost stretching due to such hi take off speed. Maybe it is though.

 

[marduk]

I don't think this is the shot that I am referring to, although it could be at a much lower resolution. The object I remember Knapp showing was a small object that can be seen very clearly and as it takes off it smears or blurs as if almost stretching due to such hi take off speed. Maybe it is though.

I think it was the same shot, but a tv show slowed it down on good gear or something.

But it looked f'n real. And like I've seen them move.

 

[Jeff Davis]

The one I'm trying to find is the one where the iris motor artifact is explained. It shows the actual camera part and how the artifact is reproduced, and it looks like the alleged UFO in the Walters beach video.

If you ever find this, man would I ever be thankful and genuinely love to see it. It might be a bit crushing in some egotistical sense or another, (chuckle) but the truth will empower me or anyone else for that matter to a much greater degree of gain. I'm a believer in camera technology artifacts. I remember David Sereda's way over the top proclamations concerning the space shuttle tether footage with all those spinning gizmos materializing and dematerializing as they flew through space. At first I was blown away, but I quickly became aware on the science forum where I was participating a great deal at the time that these were definitively camera artifact anomalies. I was impressed by the concept. The explanation was offered that the manner in which these sophisticated space camera's focus takes place within space in relation to the position of the sun, with respect to what I believe was referred to as "zooming in on infinity" or something like that while the camera focused on the tether, is what caused these artifacts to be created on film and to appear to be flying behind the tether. But honestly, I have never seen the effect recreated upon command for demonstration of the proposed control process or method.

 

[Red]

Oh wow, Gulf Breeze, those were the days! I remember the Belgium flap, too. Years ago, I knew a guy who's uncle was an astronaut. My friend said his uncle had seen some things, but those stories were to stay in the family, so I don't know if he was being truthful or telling tales.
I, erm, have a confession to make. I loved Communion, both the book and the movie.

 

[marduk]

Oh wow, Gulf Breeze, those were the days! I remember the Belgium flap, too. Years ago, I knew a guy who's uncle was an astronaut. My friend said his uncle had seen some things, but those stories were to stay in the family, so I don't know if he was being truthful or telling tales.
I, erm, have a confession to make. I loved Communion, both the book and the movie.

Me too,

I also think the communion stuff was mostly truthful.

 

[Red]

I also think the communion stuff was mostly truthful.

Something is going on, although these days I'm inclined to believe that it has nothing to do with alien abduction.

And then there was that whole thing with the Guardian up in Canada.

 

[Red]

Anybody have anything thoughts on the Coyame UFO incident? I can't remember if the segment I saw was from Sightings or Unsolved Mysteries, but that one gave me chills.