UFO Crashes: How come so many UFOs crashes ? 'Their' tech...

[gerasmus]

This is my very first post ever, I had a quick scan to see if i could find answers to my questions. If my questions has been answered please post reference for me to the links.
I am not a scientist, only Average Joe with an interest in the UFO subject. I've read a number of books on the subject (Michael Creme, Stanton Friedman, Steven Greer, Paola Harris, Jim Sparks, etc) and I have Richard Hoagland's Secret History of NASA, Richard M Dolan and a few others on my shelves to read next.
It may have been a UFO I've seen in 04/1986, but I'm not sure what it was.

Q: Why have there been so many UFO Crashes ? I read and listen on youtube about the Clifford Stone crash retrieval team.
If 'they' can get from wherever they are to here at FTL, then how can their craft crash ? Surely they don't use mechanical components, and if they are decades/millinea/aeons ahead of us then surely they must know/have expeirence with all sorts of phenomena that can disrupt their flying craft as well as possible hostile planetary residents.
In Poala Harris 's book 'How do you speak to a ball of light' mention has been made of 74 crashes since 1947... I don't even think we've had 74 airliners crash since 1974 which makes the claims sounds even more far fetched.

Q: Has the existance of the planets claimed by Bettie & Barnie Hill ever been scientificly verified ?

Q: Has the starmap made by Marjorie Fish relating to Bettie & Barney Hill been scientificaly verified. I´m no scientist/astronomer/cosmologist and my only tool is Google Earth/Sky.

As far as ETs revealing themselves, personally I don't see why they would come en masse. If they've been watching/observing for 100's or thousands/aeons then why would they suddenly reveal themsekves ?
I guess Jim Marrs' book "Alien Agenda" might have some answers but I haven't read it yet.

BTW, I appreciate the Paracast hosts 's sceptism with regards to the UFO phenomena, especially with regards to analyszing evidence. I feel that extreme claims need even more extreme evidence that would be accepted in a court of law.
I came late to Paracast, having only discovered it a month ago on iTunes, I am still catching up on 1/2 of 2006's episodes, plus I have to catch up on all episodes from 2007, 2008 and (except last 3 episodes) 2009 so excuse my ignorance.

 

[themacx]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

This is my very first post ever, I had a quick scan to see if i could find answers to my questions. If my questions has been answered please post reference for me to the links.
I am not a scientist, only Average Joe with an interest in the UFO subject. I've read a number of books on the subject (Michael Creme, Stanton Friedman, Steven Greer, Paola Harris, Jim Sparks, etc) and I have Richard Hoagland's Secret History of NASA, Richard M Dolan and a few others on my shelves to read next.
It may have been a UFO I've seen in 04/1986, but I'm not sure what it was.

Q: Why have there been so many UFO Crashes ? I read and listen on youtube about the Clifford Stone crash retrieval team.
If 'they' can get from wherever they are to here at FTL, then how can their craft crash ? Surely they don't use mechanical components, and if they are decades/millinea/aeons ahead of us then surely they must know/have expeirence with all sorts of phenomena that can disrupt their flying craft as well as possible hostile planetary residents.
In Poala Harris 's book 'How do you speak to a ball of light' mention has been made of 74 crashes since 1947... I don't even think we've had 74 airliners crash since 1974 which makes the claims sounds even more far fetched.

Q: Has the existance of the planets claimed by Bettie & Barnie Hill ever been scientificly verified ?

Q: Has the starmap made by Marjorie Fish relating to Bettie & Barney Hill been scientificaly verified. I´m no scientist/astronomer/cosmologist and my only tool is Google Earth/Sky.

As far as ETs revealing themselves, personally I don't see why they would come en masse. If they've been watching/observing for 100's or thousands/aeons then why would they suddenly reveal themsekves ?
I guess Jim Marrs' book "Alien Agenda" might have some answers but I haven't read it yet.

BTW, I appreciate the Paracast hosts 's sceptism with regards to the UFO phenomena, especially with regards to analyszing evidence. I feel that extreme claims need even more extreme evidence that would be accepted in a court of law.
I came late to Paracast, having only discovered it a month ago on iTunes, I am still catching up on 1/2 of 2006's episodes, plus I have to catch up on all episodes from 2007, 2008 and (except last 3 episodes) 2009 so excuse my ignorance.

well I've never found a confirmed crash, so where that 74 number comes from I don't understand. If you're talking about Roswell and so on.. those are stories, history told by witnesses and nothing more then that.. there is a claim for roswell alien material but it isn't 100% certain or confirmed to be from a alien crash. For somebody who likes to see evidence analyzed you should have been aware of that basic fact.

I could speculate on why those UFO's appeared to have crashed, a simple reason might just be that they where shot down.

I'm no expert on the betty and barney hill case but I'm sure someone must have thought of your suggestion before so I think that info could be found.

Might I suggest the Greer episode of the paracast, It might save you some time on that exopolitic BS book you've got.

 

[Gareth]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

Like themacx said, we dont have proof that even ONE UFO has ever crashed.

So speculating as to the reasons why these things may or may not crash seems kind of like a pointless task.

Welcome to the forums though!

edit, oh shit, dude, Paola Harris? Clifford Stone? Steven Greer? Jim Sparks?

I think weve found the source of the problem.

Paola Harris is a name dropping nut case with nothing at all substantial to offer.
Jim Sparks is likely a liar.
Clifford Stone is definitely a liar.
Steven Greer IS AN ABSOLUTE FUCKING NUTCASE.

So yeah, citing those authors as sources of information wont get you far. Its cool though, until you educate yourself about whos who in this field theres no real way to know.

 

[gerasmus]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

Like themacx said, we dont have proof that even ONE UFO has ever crashed.

Paola Harris is a name dropping nut case with nothing at all substantial to offer.
Jim Sparks is likely a liar.
Clifford Stone is definitely a liar.
Steven Greer IS AN ABSOLUTE FUCKING NUTCASE.

So yeah, citing those authors as sources of information wont get you far. Its cool though, until you educate yourself about whos who in this field theres no real way to know.

Thanks guys for your responses

I only recently arrived on the UFO scene. I was always too shy to admit that I am interested.

I must admit, I used to be a sucker for most of the stuff people blurped out, especially on Coast to Coast. The guests on the shows made outragageous claims, none backed evidence.
I also saw those Project Camelot interviews on Youtube, and geeeeez, my jaw dropped when I heard all the claims people made. What a load of unsustantiated crap!

I have many many maaaaaany hours (probably months) to catch up on the Paracast episodes.

In the first few episodes I thought that Paracast hosts where arrogant, but now I appreciate them as really exposing the hoaxters. Go go ! Gene and David, go go get them hoaxsters!

Please enlighten me ? Which authors are worth reading ? Which are crelible ?

Are any of the following credible ?
I bought (and those books are on my table to read next) books by:
Richard Hoagland - Secret History of NASA
Richard Dolan - UFO's and the national Security State: 1947-1974
Jim Marrs - Rule by secrecy .

I also previously read books, which bizarrely lead me to UFO's (none ever refer to ET or have anything to do with ET), by
Col. Philip Corso - The day after Roswell
Stanton Friedman - UFO's are real: A scientist investigates.
David Rothkopf - The superclass: A worldwide Elite and the world they are forming
Congressman Ron Paul - A foreign policy of Freedom.
Richard Heinberg - Oil, war & the future of industrial societies
Lisa Randall - Warped passages
Jorge Besada - Economics & the Social order.
Bill Bonner: Empire of Debt: The makjing of a financial crises of epic proportions
.... and another 37 or so books (which includes UFO/spiritual stuff) over the last 2 years.

My next remark is based upon that I have not yet seen all the evidence, that which my impressions are during the last 12 months of my reading/interest into the subject.

My personal perception of what I have read so far about the UFO phenomena is that very few UFO cases can be sustantiated with solid evidence. That there are 90% pranksters, and when something sounds too good to be true (The Nazi Bell, Billie Meier, Philedelphia experiment) then it is just that. Too good to be true, based on 3rd level hear-say or books that are themselves based on books. Fo example, the Philidelphia Experiment, based on a work of fiction has gone down in Lore as a coverup. And I'm sure, in time, over decades many a story can be fabricated which can then be quoted in books and then becomes 'fact' with every author and 'witness' adding to the tale.

 

[themacx]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

It's a tough one, the simple fact of matter is that NONE knows "the truth" so all claims made by people are just that (many stories I do believe, even with out solid proof.. think of airplane pilots and military sources).. Now there are people that have insight in matters (like Friedman) that might shed some light on the subject. But sadly that's all there is. I'm an experience myself and after looking for more then 10years into the subject I can honestly say I'm no further then where I've started from... All it did was pose more questions. But that doesn't mean there isn't an answer, so I keep searching for some truth. If you are willing to go through that I suggest you read all those books and make up your own mind.. I read most of them and came to the conclusion "there is something out there" but I don't have a clue what it is.


one thing I noticed is the diversity of books you've got there.. from moon stuff to UFO's and even Ron Paul...... isn't it smarter to start with one subject?

 

[cyberknight]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

Here is a list from the forum...


UFO Books - The Paracast Community Forums



Book Lists Completed - The Paracast Community Forums

 

[Schuyler]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

Welcome to the forum. What Gareth said. Your biggest issue right now is half the stuff you're reading is BS--not that you knew. I'm just saying. Given your plunge into this you've got to find a way to get to the good stuff. Check out UFO Watchdog: http://www.ufowatchdog.com/ and read the 'Hall of Shame' for starters. It's a bit out of date at the moment, but has some great stuff. In any case, a lot of the Bad Guys (tm) are listed there and this might help you avoid some of the charalatans and credulous out there.

 

[themacx]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

Welcome to the forum. What Gareth said. Your biggest issue right now is half the stuff you're reading is BS--not that you knew. I'm just saying. Given your plunge into this you've got to find a way to get to the good stuff. Check out UFO Watchdog: http://www.ufowatchdog.com/ and read the 'Hall of Shame' for starters. It's a bit out of date at the moment, though may be updated over the next few months. In any case, a lot of the Bad Guys (tm) are listed there and this might help you avoid some of the charalatans and credulous out there.

I don't think Ron Paul is listed there ;-) but you are right..

 

[111uminate]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

Welcome to the forums! You've certainly come to the right place for a critical approach to the subject, and given your current reading list you can almost consider this place rehab. Haha, I kid (Mostly). There's no harm nor foul in that however, for we've all got to start somewhere. The deeper you go into the field and the more characters and legitimate researchers you come upon, the better you'll become at separating the signal from the noise (Tm).

Like others have mentioned, I'm not aware of any crash cases that have any amount of proof as much as they do anecdotal claims. Some seem more plausible than others, but in the end none of them any kind of proof that satisfies. I'm aware of the Betty and Barney Hill case, but not versed with the details regarding it. If I recall correctly, she alluded to some kind of starmap being visible during the abduction, and later on researchers "concluded" that it contained a companion star to Sirius A, which at the time wasn't known to exist. We do know now that there is a Sirius B, but whether or not the starmap actually contained that is anyone's guess.

About the supposed crashes and technology, as far out as the concept of a crash goes I always try to keep an open mind. Presuming that they use a form of technology that we consider to be "vastly superior", our forms of low tech could still be to a degree, effective. They could have advanced on a technological tree very different from ours, even though it seems logically that they're more advanced than us. Maybe shooting them down is to an extent possible, or at least for a time, was. I don't believe any of that, just consider it a thought exercise. 8)

 

[cyberknight]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

well I've never found a confirmed crash, so where that 74 number comes from I don't understand.

It could be coming from Ryan Wood's web site ... quote "The author guides the reader through 74 UFO crash incidents supported by compelling evidence in the form of official documents, eyewitnesses and in some cases physical evidence."

Edit: There is a paracast show from Oct 22, 2006 with Ryan Wood... Show Link

 

[CapnG]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

Welcome to the best paranormal forum on the net, gerasmus. We'll do our best to steer you away from the whackos but understand that it's a twisted path. Alot of the people you mentioned (like Marrs and Paul) have SOME okay-good info but talk crap the rest of the time. Others (like Friedman and Dolan) bat mostly in the good range but have a few sour notes marring their scores.

It's all very murky and indistinct. But interesting... very interesting.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

One idea I've heard is that we have actually shot down a few. Another thing might be that they crashed on purpose. That doesn't make sense, but then none of it makes sense.

One thing to keep in mind about Roswell is that the original press release from the Roswell Army Air Field stated:

The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th Bomb group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves County. The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who in turn notified Maj. Jesse A. Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence Office. Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at the Roswell Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters.

So why did they release that? To cover up some secret project? That seems a bit of a stretch to say it was a flying disk, and then retract that statement also, and then cover it up with a secret project!

Something happened there. That's a fact. We just will never know what.

I'm prone to think that something crashed, and they picked up pieces, and they didn't have a clue what it was. All that other stuff about reverse engineering and stuff is silly.

Then you also have the statements made by Marilyn Monroe and Jackie Gleason saying that they saw the wreckage. And Jessie Marcell Jr. seems very credible to me.

 

[boyfromspace]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

Like themacx said, we dont have proof that even ONE UFO has ever crashed.

So speculating as to the reasons why these things may or may not crash seems kind of like a pointless task.

Welcome to the forums though!

edit, oh shit, dude, Paola Harris? Clifford Stone? Steven Greer? Jim Sparks?

I think weve found the source of the problem.

Paola Harris is a name dropping nut case with nothing at all substantial to offer.
Jim Sparks is likely a liar.
Clifford Stone is definitely a liar.
Steven Greer IS AN ABSOLUTE FUCKING NUTCASE.

So yeah, citing those authors as sources of information wont get you far. Its cool though, until you educate yourself about whos who in this field theres no real way to know.

but be careful not to infer that everything to do with greer is barmy. after all, he did introduce some credible witnesses during the disclosure project (bob salas among others) - also im interested in where you got your info that clifford stone is definitely a liar. i've been intending to check out this guy's cred. so any info (sources etc.) would be most appreciated. thx in advance

 

[Unky]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

Thanks guys for your responses


Please enlighten me ? Which authors are worth reading ? Which are crelible ?

Are any of the following credible ?
I bought (and those books are on my table to read next) books by:
Richard Hoagland - Secret History of NASA
Richard Dolan - UFO's and the national Security State: 1947-1974
Jim Marrs - Rule by secrecy .

Consider reading UFOs and the National Security State. I personally don't care much for Marrs, and whatever Hoagland says you're better off believing the exact opposite.

If you want safer books that contain research, evidence, and information of a more trustworthy sort, consider:

Above Top Secret - Timothy Good
The UFO Encylcopedia - Jerome Clark
The UFO Cover-Up - Lawerence Fawcett & Barry Greenwood

Books like this are a safe place to start.

If you're scientifically minded I would recommend Unconventional Flying Objects by Paul Hill

If you're less about nuts and bolts and prefer to learn about the more intangible aspects of the phenomenon consider Confrontations by Jacques Vallee.

There are many good books on Ufology, but unfortunately there are at least twice as many bad ones.

 

[bobheck]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

Don't forget THE pioneering book in the field, as far as I am concerned, The Flying Saucers Are Real by Donald Keyhoe (1950).

Still a great read, and full of interesting cases.

This book is in the public domain and you can read it in its entirety online.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/fsar/index.htm

You can even download it from that link in zipped format.

Don't pass this one up.

Enjoy!

 

[pappavis]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

Stanton Friedman - UFO's are real: A scientist investigates.

Stanton Friedman uses the court-of-law way of circumstantial evidance to proove the existance of UFO's, aliens and conspiricies being covered up. In most murders there is no direct witness account. A murderer is often convicted based upon extensive investigation AND circumstances, with the odd innocent going to jail.

He uses that evidence collection technique to demonstrate coverups & UFOs. The development of the first atomic bomb as example of a coverup of gigantic scale. Ofcourse its all common knowledge but back then, people who saw the explosion were told a sob story.

Stanton Friedman is very thorough, uses facts to proof his point though he hasnt seen a UFO himself. Also, he a pedigree of education such as worked at nasa, Ph.D etc etc). he argumant, yes there are aliens & UFOs, theres a massive coverup.

Furthermore following his logic one can assume a very great majority of sightings are either fake, misinterpretations, hoaxers, airplanes or natural phenomena. What remains are plausable cases narrowing those down even more then certianly a very minor small minority are definitley UFO.
For example if 1000 sightings are reported, then 1 or 2 could be the real deal.

I like Stanton Friedman for being a sceptic believer.

Don't forget THE pioneering book in the field, as far as I am concerned, The Flying Saucers Are Real by Donald Keyhoe (1950).

Stanton Friedman extensivley refers to this book.

Thanks guys for your responses
Philedelphia experiment) then it is just that. Too good to be true, based on 3rd level hear-say or books that are themselves based on books. Fo example, the Philidelphia Experiment, based on a work of fiction has gone down in Lore as a coverup. And I'm sure, in time, over decades many a story can be fabricated which can then be quoted in books and then becomes 'fact' with every author and 'witness' adding to the tale.

Imagine in 1000yrs when we still use combustion engines, and alien contact is still being covered up. Imagine then someone discovers a sci-fi novel of present 2009 time (for example, Pandora's Star ) and revels proclaiming it as Gospel.
Ppl usually say sci-fi of tommrrow is fact today. No, its the other way around. Sci-fi of the past, is considred factual truth ('religion") today.

Thats what u get when one story is based upon another story and so on.

 

[Schuyler]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

Stanton Friedman is very thorough, uses facts to proof his point though he hasnt seen a UFO himself. Also, he a pedigree of education such as worked at nasa, Ph.D etc etc). he argumant, yes there are aliens & UFOs, theres a massive coverup.

Actually, Friedman has a Masters in Nuclear Engineering, not a PhD. He has never actually over-stated his education, but listening to him you'd THINK he had a PhD because he constantly refers to himself as a nuclear engineer or nuclear scientist. He was kind of an intinerant in the industry during the fifties and worked for a number of companies, getting laid off numerous times. He hasn't worked in the field for decades, but has supported himself on the college lecture circuit with his 'UFOs ARE real!' speech.

He's really a 'nuts & bolts guy' who believes UFOs contain aliens from space. He does not entertain alternative theories for UFO origins and never, as far as I can remember, indulges himself in the paranormal.

Some people feel Friedman is stuck in the fifties and hasn't changed his tune for half a century. He's also stubbornly stuck by his acceptance of the MJ-12 documents while most researchers have deemed them a fake. That's not to take away from his accomplishments. He remains one of the most sober and honest figures in the field today and is very meticulous. He has a solid and well-deserved reputation. On a poll here at the Paracast a few months back he was voted 'Mr. UFO.'

Thanks for your post and welcome to the forums!

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

Actually, Friedman has a Masters in Nuclear Engineering, not a PhD. He has never actually over-stated his education, but listening to him you'd THINK he had a PhD because he constantly refers to himself as a nuclear engineer or nuclear scientist. He was kind of an intinerant in the industry during the fifties and worked for a number of companies, getting laid off numerous times. He hasn't worked in the field for decades, but has supported himself on the college lecture circuit with his 'UFOs ARE real!' speech.

He's really a 'nuts & bolts guy' who believes UFOs contain aliens from space. He does not entertain alternative theories for UFO origins and never, as far as I can remember, indulges himself in the paranormal.

I thought I heard he state that he only has a Bachelors degree, but I might be remembering wrong. He really is a nuts and bolts guy. I do enjoy listening to him, mostly for the history of the whole field, and he has a lot of great stories on the various cover ups, etc. He's just plain entertaining as well.

But I think a lot of his ideas are dated.

 

[Schuyler]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

I thought I heard he state that he only has a Bachelors degree, but I might be remembering wrong. He really is a nuts and bolts guy. I do enjoy listening to him, mostly for the history of the whole field, and he has a lot of great stories on the various cover ups, etc. He's just plain entertaining as well.

Not trying to ding you, but this is from his web site. After all, I've been ranting about citing sources and I didn't do it, so I'm making amends. From: http://stantonfriedman.com/

Nuclear Physicist-Lecturer Stanton T. Friedman received his BSc. and MSc. Degrees in physics from the University of Chicago in 1955 and 1956. He was employed for 14 years as a nuclear physicist by such companies as GE, GM, Westinghouse, TRW Systems, Aerojet General Nucleonics, and McDonnell Douglas working in such highly advanced, classified, eventually cancelled programs as nuclear aircraft, fission and fusion rockets, and various compact nuclear powerplants for space and terrestrial applications.

He became interested in UFOs in 1958, and since 1967 has lectured about them at more than 600 colleges and 100 professional groups in 50 U.S. states, 9 Canadian provinces and 16 other countries in addition

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

UFO Crashes: How come so many UFO's crashes ? 'Their' tech...

Ding away!

As I said, I probably didn't remember correctly. I guess it would make sense that he had his Masters. So thanks for clearing that up.