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UFO Debates

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Still a stunning case. I realise that my 'impression' of Travis means zip in terms of truth but he does not come across like some 'abductess' I have zero faith in.

For me the outstanding facts are that crew reported seeing the disc and losing Travis and stuck to that account even before they knew Travis was Ok.

The polygraph tests are not conclusive proof but they strongly indicate that the crew believed they had seen something extraordinary.

If this case was a hoax, then I contend it must have been perpetrated by Travis and some others. The logging crew don't seem to be in on it and if it was a hoax, many people would have to have been involved to rig up a fake saucer etc. To my admittedly poor knowledge, I've never heard of any co-conspirators.
 
If anyone reads Bruce Maccabee's examination of what Phil Klass said about JAL Alaska UFO event, then you can only conclude Klass is an actual idiot. But Klass undoubtedly holds quality credentials. So why would an intelligent man use such ridiculous explanations? I can only think that Klass is either religious or something that ET's may go against, or he is an 'official' debunker. He really does use anything to debunk a UFO case - even when those explanations are us unlikely as a flying saucer!
I have little respect for anyone who hold people like Shermer and Klass as fine scientific examples of rational thinking. I believe some debunkers are every bit as strong 'believers' as the tin-foil hat brigade, only that their belief is solely based 'it cannot be true therefore it is not true'.

The idea that a logging crew would fake an alien abduction to make a contract deadline is preposterous. There are a million down-to-earth excuses they could have used instead of something that brought the world's media and the police breathing down their necks thinking a homicide had been committed. I don't know how much faith to put in polygraphs but it seems the examiners were of the opinion the guys thought they had seen a UFO. So if it was not real, then it was a hoax but who perpetrated that?
 
goggsmackay said:
The idea that a logging crew would fake an alien abduction to make a contract deadline is preposterous. There are a million down-to-earth excuses they could have used instead of something that brought the world's media and the police breathing down their necks thinking a homicide had been committed. I don't know how much faith to put in polygraphs but it seems the examiners were of the opinion the guys thought they had seen a UFO. So if it was not real, then it was a hoax but who perpetrated that?
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I make an effort to be objective and I don't believe that the evidence for the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest incident ( The Walton Abduction ) is favorable. WIthout going into all the deatils I've posted my reasoning here .
 
Thanks to Andre Skondras mailing list for the lead:

RT's take on UFOs - included important conference by James Fox and Leslie Kean from November 12th 2007 - news stories about that event are archived here day by day (search keywords within page as "James Fox" "National Press" "Larry King" "Conference" etc:
UFO UpDates: Nov 2007
also Hastings conference on UFOs and Nukes - September 27 2010, Phoenix "lights", and Washington 1952 incident:
Video here:
 
I am preparing my new mega compilation from Australia that will be probably finished within the next 30 days. In that sense one video about UFO documents from Australia from June 2011:
More about it in the near future.
 
RobDel said:
My favorite. I love watching Bob Jacobs loose his sh!t. Poor Bill Nye didn't know what hit him.
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Yup, it is Larry King episode from July 18, 2008. Another episode with Bob Hastings, James Fox, Fife Symington, general Wilfred de Brouwer, Edgar Mitchell, Seth Shostak and Bill Nye was scheduled for July 3, 2009 but was later canceled because of Michael Jackson's death.

Deeper reasons for Jacobs' irritation can be heard in this clip below (taken from compilation of 5 clips that I sent back in February 2012 through my list):

02.Robert Jacobs-128k.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
Original source - SDI from July 6, 2002.
 
RobDel said:
My favorite. I love watching Bob Jacobs loose his sh!t. Poor Bill Nye didn't know what hit him.
..
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Yea, that was 'good TV', and it's a great shocker to present to a novice or a 'denier'. There is always something naturally convincing to what looks like personal indignation.

Whenever I see it I think it's how Hemingway would look like if someone accused him of lying about a blue marlin. :D
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uforadio said:
Latest issue of eSkeptic published Walton's reaction to Shermer's article from the previous issue:
Skeptic » eSkeptic » Wednesday, August 22nd, 2012
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That was a pretty good read, a good outline of some salient issues surrounding the Walton case:

"His evidence? His co-workers said they saw it happen. Five days later Walton called from a nearby payphone to report that the aliens had let him go.
And none too soon, because Walton and his co-workers were about to miss their deadline of November 10th to finish the logging job, after which they would be docked 10 percent of the contract, unless an “Act of God” prevented completion. Enter the UFO. Why aliens? ... Coincidentally (not!), two weeks before Walton’s abduction, with the logging deadline growing near, NBC aired their prime-time made-for-television movie The UFO Incident, about the 1961 Betty and Barney Hill abduction case.

.. during the five days that Walton was missing none of his family or co-workers showed any concern whatsoever for his safety during several interviews by media and interrogations by law enforcement agents...

an earlier unpublished polygraph test of Walton, conducted by Jack McCarthy, one of the top polygraph examiners in Arizona. McCarthy gave Klass his assessment of Walton’s story: “Gross deception!” He added that Walton employed polygraph countermeasures, such as holding his breath."
 
ufology said:
I make an effort to be objective and I don't believe that the evidence for the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest incident ( The Walton Abduction ) is favorable. WIthout going into all the deatils I've posted my reasoning here .
Click to expand...

Ordinarily it would seem odd if a crew fled without trying to help someone who had just been hit as Walton was. But this is different. They were dealing with something very advanced and potentially very deadly. Under the circumstances trying to help probably would've been futile at best. And while it is true that no witnesses saw Walton taken aboard the craft, how could they, after they fled? IMO the hoaxers don't have much of a case unless they can show where Walton was hiding those few days. Also, assuming he was hit and knocked down, was he really in good shape to walk out of there into a hideaway?
 
Trajanus said:
Ordinarily it would seem odd if a crew fled without trying to help someone who had just been hit as Walton was. But this is different. They were dealing with something very advanced and potentially very deadly. Under the circumstances trying to help probably would've been futile at best. And while it is true that no witnesses saw Walton taken aboard the craft, how could they, after they fled? IMO the hoaxers don't have much of a case unless they can show where Walton was hiding those few days. Also, assuming he was hit and knocked down, was he really in good shape to walk out of there into a hideaway?
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I suppose we could assume a lot of things. Like assuming it was a hoax, he [Walton] wouldn't have had to walk anyplace and could have hung out at the residence of one of his coworkers. That would explain why a search of the alleged spot where Walton was abducted turned up no evidence of disturbance whatsoever, why he showed no medical signs of food deprivation or injury, and why he failed the original polygraph test. But hey, none of that is proof of a hoax. The question is, is the absence of proof of a hoax sufficient reason to believe Walton's story? I don't think so. Although it could be true, no matter how nice a guy Walton may seem to be these days, there are nagging questions that leave more objective ufologists with serious doubts.
 
ufology said:
I suppose we could assume a lot of things. Like assuming it was a hoax, he [Walton] wouldn't have had to walk anyplace and could have hung out at the residence of one of his coworkers.
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In other words there was no incident at all; he just drove to a coworker's place, hid there, and they were all in on it. Amazing that none of them ever admitted the truth for 4 decades.:confused:

Although it could be true, no matter how nice a guy Walton may seem to be these days, there are nagging questions that leave more objective ufologists with serious doubts.
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All UFO cases have problems--Iron Law of Plausible Deniability.
 
Jimi H. said:
And none too soon, because Walton and his co-workers were about to miss their deadline of November 10th to finish the logging job, after which they would be docked 10 percent of the contract,
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10% of the contract was worth concocting a risky, harebrained hoax...

Enter the UFO. Why aliens? ... Coincidentally (not!), two weeks before Walton’s abduction, with the logging deadline growing near, NBC aired their prime-time made-for-television movie The UFO Incident, about the 1961 Betty and Barney Hill abduction case.
Click to expand...

The Walton case was actually quite unlike most abductions, which usually don't involve witnesses other than the abductee(s); nor does an abductee initiate an encounter i.e. run toward a UFO, or get zapped.

.. during the five days that Walton was missing none of his family or co-workers showed any concern whatsoever for his safety during several interviews by media and interrogations by law enforcement agents...
Click to expand...

In other words they were all in on it yet none ever admitted the truth for 4 decades...
 
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