UFO Investigator Jeff Ritzmann to Reveal Personal Experiences on The Paracast

[Hoffmeister]

Hoff. I recommend not worrying about coming to any conclusions on the basis of listening to just one or two shows about someone, unless it's extremely obvious they are full of shit. Continue to explore it and learn to be comfortable with concluding things are inconclusive. Or just saying, "I don't know". If not, you'll go batty, or be plane wrong a lot of the time.

Heh, ya see thats where I definately am flawed as a person. I can't just listen to what is potentially one of the biggest revelations the earth has ever seen (if it is true) or potentially one of the tallest-tales we have ever heard (if its not) and just leave it swishing round in my head unconcluded without rationalising it into some sort of answer before I go about my everyday life.
I guess that makes me one of Gene's 'fundamentalists'.... :frown:

Cheers for the comments though guys

 

[WhiteNoise]

Well Hoffmeister, I'll have to admit that I agree with everything you've said. I'm in exactly the same place. I can't seem to come up with any other options. Of the two options, rational types will lean to number 1 because of occams razer. It doesn't require us to re-think reality and it's just a lot more likely than number 2. People are mentally ill or lie all the time.

What makes Jeff's story unique is that 1) Others are present in some of the experiences 2) he is actually not in the bed when it happens much of the time. As soon as an experiencer starts out with "I was lying in my bed", I immediately write it off. The brain is just too good at playing tricks on you when you are sleeping. I've had sleep paralysis and I know it seemed very real and was scary as hell but there are explanations for it. Since some of Jeff's experiences happen when he is wide awake, then I initially start leaning to the "ok he's mentally ill" theory. But then he has some witnesses that experience things with him, supposedly. So that leaves me with either "they're all lying" or "it is all real".

So I've been through the same thought process many times. I have not come to a conclusion and that's ok with me except that I want to keep hearing more and getting more details. My suspicion is that option number 2 is so paradigm shifting that the only way many (probably including myself) will ever be convinced is if there is some concrete evidence. I think I recall that Jeff placed himself in this group of people as well, if the shoe were on the other foot.

 

[valiens]

How are people who know Jeff & his family supposed to respond to this? Do we keep quiet? Do we give testimony to the truthfulness of him and his account? Or do we say "Well he doesn't need to prove anything to you. That wasn't why he came forward. He was just relaying his story."

I dunno. Maybe just pretend I wrote a long testimonial about Jeff's character and give your response to such testimonial because it doesn't matter if I write three words or three hundred. You will consider it valid or not either way.

 

[WhiteNoise]

Just to be sure you understand me, my comments have little to do with Jeff personally. On the contrary, IMO the very reason this topic is being discussed and this "dilemma" presented by Hoffmeister is because Jeff IS so credible. This goes for those of you who know him and testify for him as well. The credibilty of Jeff and the people around Jeff is absolutely what makes this such a dilemma for those of us who have experienced nothing but the boring materialist world that scientists tell us is all that exists.

So I would say there isn't much you can say that you haven't already. If option number 2 is the correct one then it must be extremely frustrating for people like Jeff. I would say it is beyond unfair for anyone to have to endure the experiences and then people like...... like Hoffmeister

 

[Hoffmeister]

How are people who know Jeff & his family supposed to respond to this? Do we keep quiet? Do we give testimony to the truthfulness of him and his account? Or do we say "Well he doesn't need to prove anything to you. That wasn't why he came forward. He was just relaying his story."

I dunno. Maybe just pretend I wrote a long testimonial about Jeff's character and give your response to such testimonial because it doesn't matter if I write three words or three hundred. You will consider it valid or not either way.

Don't take it personally against either you or Jeff mate, thats not the way its intended. I am simply trying to rationalise in my own head, and for the sake of discussion whats going on here. Of course Jeff has nothing to prove, of course he doesnt give a sh*t what I think... thats not even the issue here..

All I am saying is that these are such big events, yet there is no proof, so what am I supposed to think...
I think Jeff sounds like a good guy, i know David is, and he trusts Jeff, and from what I know about you so are you....

I don't know what the truth is in any of these situations, and I never claim to... I am just discussing the merits, and demerits of each case because that is what rational people do. All you read on here from me is just me spewing my mind onto pages, I am not judging anyone I am just hoping to find some vague answers for myself.
Jeff has been skeptical of many accounts, so i would think that both you and he would atleast understand the thought processes that are going through my head.
As I said before, from what I have seen so far, Jeff has no more evidence than Clifford Stone, but this in no way means I am comparing their intergrity, or what they are like as human beings..... just the claims, and the evidence that is there to support them.

I think if you spend a lot of time dishing out skeptical opinions, you should be able to understand others. This is a forum, where people discuss their thoughts in a friendly and responsible manner.

I take a lot of time to write my posts, often editing to make sure they don't come across as offensive, but its hard doing it in written word sometimes.

Finally, i'll say that I have 'labelled' Jeff as anything, I have in fact stated many times that he seems like a great guy, and I am definately going to listen to more of his stuff.
However, anyone who hears such claims, and doesnt toy with all the possible answers (one of which being that its fictitious) yet goes straight for the 'definately true' answer, is in my opinion not being scientific, and possibly being dillusional.. and thats what we've all just scolded Paola Harris for...

 

[Hoffmeister]

it must be extremely frustrating for people like Jeff. I would say it is beyond unfair for anyone to have to endure the experiences and then people like...... like Hoffmeister

Heh, yeah thats true.
In all honesty, I know some people on here probably get pissed off with me and my fundamentalist views. I know one or two people (Ally springs to mind ) get frustrated that I fail to find so much paranormal, but thats the way I am, and I think that one of the things that gets forums like these going is the fact that there are so many people with different views.
If I start to think that i'm really pissing people off, i'll tone down the number of posts I make... but if i wasnt atleast a teeny weeny bit open minded, I wouldnt even listen to the show, and I wouldnt be on here...

 

[Kieran]

Heh, yeah thats true.
In all honesty, I know some people on here probably get pissed off with me and my fundamentalist views. I know one or two people (Ally springs to mind ) get frustrated that I fail to find so much paranormal, but thats the way I am, and I think that one of the things that gets forums like these going is the fact that there are so many people with different views.
If I start to think that i'm really pissing people off, i'll tone down the number of posts I make... but if i wasnt atleast a teeny weeny bit open minded, I wouldnt even listen to the show, and I wouldnt be on here...

I have not got the time to post response's to all the arguments put forward . Hoffmeister,i dont know you personally, but you are one of the most intelligent individuals posting on this site. Keep it up dude!....I totally agree with everything you siad in your posts.

 

[Hoffmeister]

I have not got the time to post response's to all the arguments put forward . Hoffmeister,i dont know you personally, but you are one of the most intelligent individuals posting on this site. Keep it up dude!....I totally agree with everything you siad in your posts.

Thanks mate. I'll try... although i'm also gonna spend a bit more care on posts so i don't piss people off so much..

 

[Mothra]

Thanks mate. I'll try... although i'm also gonna spend a bit more care on posts so i don't piss people off so much..

Don't worry about that Hoffy. Always question things you don't understand. Your posts are well thought out and perfectly valid. These are difficult things to understand. Jeremy is just coming to the defense of his friend.

Boy, times sure have changed haven't they? In the old days we would have just burned Jeff at the stake and been done with it.

 

[Graphimancer]

I do not know Jeff personally, but after having listened to him on several different podcasts I feel quite strongly he is telling the truth as he percieved it. I've heard him repeat some of these stories several times and they are always consistent. He shows no signs of being a media whore, or someone with visions of a big Hollywood payoff. I'm not saying he's perfect, but I think I'll take him at his word.

 

[itsthenoise]

forgive me as I'm way too late for this thread really... but just listened to jeff's first appearance on the show in the car traveling back from london last night... in the dark [ gulp ].

have to say it really un-nerved me, I'm working my way through the whole paracast archive and this is probably my favourite so far.

... if you believe jeff - what a downer though, evidence seems to point towards the fact that we're nothing but dumb greedy insects! ! !

[ actually with the state the worlds in?? why am I surprised! ]

 

[Aaron LeClair]

forgive me as I'm way too late for this thread really... but just listened to jeff's first appearance on the show in the car traveling back from london last night... in the dark [ gulp ].

have to say it really un-nerved me, I'm working my way through the whole paracast archive and this is probably my favourite so far.

... if you believe jeff - what a downer though, evidence seems to point towards the fact that we're nothing but dumb greedy insects! ! !

[ actually with the state the worlds in?? why am I surprised! ]

Jeff's first appearance is many's fav, including my own.

I don't recall anything about his events that make us out to be greedy insects though. Can you give me an example?

Jeff has his own podcast, but I lost the link to it when my bookmarks got wiped awhile back. He's been on Eerie Radio and Culture of Contact as well as other shows. You might want to check them out sometime.

 

[itsthenoise]

yes sorry greedy insects is badly worded, I think the 'greedy' bit has just come into focus with the banking disasters of late!

jeff's interview made me feel that we are just 'ants' [ to use a david phrase ], totally ignorant on the whole, powerless and almost literally the 'playthings' of these creatures/beings/etc. we're just a game to them.

actually that's probably a tad negative?:

 

[Aaron LeClair]

yes sorry greedy insects is badly worded, I think the 'greedy' bit has just come into focus with the banking disasters of late!

jeff's interview made me feel that we are just 'ants' [ to use a david phrase ], totally ignorant on the whole, powerless and almost literally the 'playthings' of these creatures/beings/etc. we're just a game to them.

actually that's probably a tad negative?:

I think these beings don't treat us any worse than we do many other animals. Always a bigger fish.

I don't think we're ants to them. Ants work together better

More seriously though, we may be to them, like what a monkey is to us. I think that's closer to it. We at least have the status of a squirrel with it's nutts.

 

[Gareth]

BTW, Jeffs podcast is called The Second Eclipse and you can get it at the corresponding dot com.

 

[itsthenoise]

thanks, will definitely check out jeff's other podcasts.

 

[Bixyboo]

I remember listening to Jeff's shows here, and of his stories. Really fascinating......bring him back on, more!

Oh, and I wish David would talk more about HIS UFO sighting on the show, too!

 

[Hoffmeister]

Anyone know of any place i can read about people with similar experiences?
I'm still not comfortable with this whole account
*dodges rotten tomatoes*

 

[valiens]

Anyone know of any place i can read about people with similar experiences?
I'm still not comfortable with this whole account
*dodges rotten tomatoes*

Pretty much everybody. I don't understand where the notion that high strangeness cases are rare. I think they're actually the norm. Betty Andreasson, Debbie Jordan, Whitley Strieber, John Keel - by all accounts (including Budd Hopkins', however reluctant he is to admit it) there is a bleed-through of paranormal events that we used to think fell into separate categories.

Remember in the early 90's when there was a movement to classify any ghost sightings/poltergeist activity as alien abduction-related? "Oh you're not seeing ghosts, you're really an abductee with a screen memory."

Jeff isn't as left field as you might think.

 

[Hoffmeister]

I kind of meant are there any people with experiences that strikingly resemble the one that Jeff had, as i think i remember him saying that he had read about some others.

Also, Jeff's case is unique to alot of these other cases you mention in that he is clearly not a whack job mentalist like so many other cases (but not all of course) are.... if he is completely correct of his interpretation of whats happening, then there is something strange going on, if he is incorrect then there is still something strange going on.

Also, i am thinking about a third theory where the potential occurances are really there, but they are actually manifestations of Jeff's mind being created in reality somehow. Thats pretty far left, but not as far left as them being real and from another dimension.

Do we know of any occurances which involved someone other than Jeff or his wife, and that can be externally co-oberated (spelling).
I know there was Davids cat incident, but thats not neccesarily paranormal. I have never owned a cat yet in the last three houses i have lived in, there have regularly been random cats and even dogs gaining entrance to our house.

One funny incident was when our current house was being refurbished, the friendly ginger cat from next door kept coming in the house and pestering the builders. One day one of the builders drove home after work (his house was quite far from ours), then when he went to get his stuff out of the back of his van, the cat was in there! He had to drive all the way back and drop it off! LOL!
Anyway thats a bit off topic..