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UFOs and the National Security State, Vol. II

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Paul Kimball

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UFOs and the National Security State, Vol. II

When I read Richard Dolan's new book, UFOs and the National Security State, Vol. II: The Cover-Up Exposed, 1973 - 1991, I was immediately struck by one question: What did Albert Speer know?

Now, to many people reading this review, that will seem like a complete non sequitur. Let me explain.

Albert Speer was Hitler's Minister of Armaments from 1942 onwards, and for much of the 1930s and early 1940s was the closest thing that Hitler had to a friend. He was tried at Nuremberg in 1945 - 1946 for various war crimes and crimes against humanity. Speer was found guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity, though he was acquitted on the other two counts (participating in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of crime against peace, and planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace), and sentenced to 20 years imprisonment at Spandau, which he served.

At his trial, Speer was the one Nazi leader who admitted at least a sense of general responsibility for the crimes of the Nazi regime. However, he was always very careful to deny direct knowledge (and therefore personal responsibility) for the greatest crime of all - the Holocaust. If it had been shown that he knew, he surely would have been hanged, like Fritz Sauckel, the man who rounded up the labour that Speer used to keep the factories running.

In the years that followed his release, Speer published Inside the Third Reich, which told his side of the story, and which was accepted by many historians as a reasonably accurate and candid version of events. But Speer always maintained that he did not know about the Holocaust. In Inside the Third Reich, he wrote that in mid-1944, he was told by Gauleiter Hanke of Lower Silesia that he should never accept an invitation to inspect a concentration camp in neighboring Upper Silesia, as "he had seen something there which he was not permitted to describe and moreover could not describe". Speer later concluded that Hanke had been speaking of Auschwitz, and blamed himself for not inquiring further of Hanke or seeking information from Himmler or Hitler:
These seconds were uppermost in my mind when I stated to the international court at the Nuremberg Trial that, as an important member of the leadership of the Reich, I had to share the total responsibility for all that had happened. For from that moment on I was inescapably contaminated morally; from fear of discovering something which might have made me turn from my course, I had closed my eyes ... Because I failed at that time, I still feel, to this day, responsible for Auschwitz in a wholly personal sense.
However, his claims to not have known became more controversial as the years went along, and new information surfaced, particularly about his presence at the Posen Conference on October 6, 1943, at which Reichsfuhrer Heinrich Himmler gave a speech in which he detailed the ongoing Holocaust to Nazi leaders. Himmler said, "The grave decision had to be taken to cause this people to vanish from the earth ... In the lands we occupy, the Jewish question will be dealt with by the end of the year." Speer was mentioned several times in the speech, and Himmler seemed to address him directly.


In Inside the Third Reich, Speer mentioned his own address to the officials (which took place earlier in the day), but did not mention Himmler's speech. He later claimed that he left before Himmler gave his speech. However, in Inside the Third Reich, Speer recalled that on the evening after the conference, many Nazi officials were so drunk that they needed help boarding the special train which was to take them to a meeting with Hitler. One of his biographers suggested this necessarily implied he must have still been present at Posen then, and must have heard Himmler's speech. In response, Speer claimed that in writing Inside the Third Reich, he erred in reporting an incident that happened at another conference at Posen a year later, as happening in 1943 - a claim which strains credulity on such an important point.

Speer died in 1981 whilst on a visit to London. To the end of his life, he maintained that he did not know about the Holocaust, and that he was not at Posen for Himmler's speech. Almost nobody accepts the former contention anymore. Historian Gitta Sereny, in her book Albert Speer: His Battle With Truth, concluded that Speer must have known about the Final Solution at least by the time of the Posen conference, whether or not he was actually present at Himmler's speech. She based this judgment on extensive conversations with Speer, analysis of his published and unpublished writings, and interviews with Speer's family and colleagues. In Sereny's view, Speer's acknowledgment of his guilt as a Nazi and his complicity in crimes of which he claimed to be unaware was part of a complex process by which he evaded acknowledgment of the full truth.


I wrote my major paper in law school in legal history, and in particular a comparative study of Speer's case at Nuremberg versus that of Sauckel. My conclusion was that Speer should have been hanged with Sauckel. Speer's responsibility as the man who employed the slave labour was at least as great as that of Sauckel, who procured that labour. Also, Speer's position in the Nazi hierarchy was far more significant than Sauckel's. Finally, I was convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, as Sereny was, that Speer knew about the Holocaust, no matter how much he struggled with this knowledge in later years.

But that wasn't the verdict at Nuremberg, and it wasn't the verdict of many mainstream historians for many years. Further, we still can't say with absolute certainty that Speer was at Posen when Himmler delivered his speech that afternoon (although, as Sereny makes clear, Speer's presence was not determinative of his knowledge of the Holocaust).

The reality is that history is not always cut and dry. Even official records can leave questions. The unofficial records, and accounts from people who were "there," can often lead to more questions than they answer. Questions such as: "what did Albert Speer know?" You could go one further, using Speer as an avatar, and ask, "what did the average German know?"

That reality is absolutely critical to understanding both the strengths and weaknesses of Dolan's UFOs and the National Security State, Vol. II (and his other work). History isn't always about absolute rights and wrongs (although those things do exist) - often it's about making the best case that you can with respect to a subject where, for any one of a number of reasons, more than one case is possible. The question of the UFO phenomenon and the government is one of those subjects.

Take the 1957 RB47 case, for example. No sufficient explanation has ever been offered by those people who would have you believe that there is nothing to the UFO phenomenon. Not only that, but there were other RB47 encounters, including the one experienced by Lieutenant Colonel Bruce Bailey and his crew during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Bailey, as so many other military witnesses before and after have done, described a de-briefing process that made it absolutely clear that they "didn't see anything." That leaves one of two possible conclusions: either Bailey, a decorated veteran who flew on the most sensitive surveillance aircraft the USAF had at the time, is a liar - as are many others who tell similar stories - or there is more to the government's knowledge of and involvement with the UFO phenomenon than the official history would have you believe.


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So, if what Bailey and others say is true - that they are sworn to secrecy - then how can we ever know the truth, when the official policy of the government is to hide the truth?

Richard Dolan believes more than I do. That much is obvious from reading his book. He is convinced that not only is the UFO phenomenon real, but that it represents an extraterrestrial intelligence that has interacted with humans for years, and that our governments have knowledge of this interaction, and have covered it up - indeed, they may well have facilitated it.

On the face of it, those conclusions seem absurd. Indeed, I suspect that if he offered them in any university history classroom, Dolan would be laughed out of the building. Many of his sources are anonymous, which raises all kinds of red flags for historians. Further, while he cites some official documents, he fails to offer a verifiable document in the record which he can point to as indisputable proof of his conclusions. Nor can he offer any witnesses, on the record, who can prove what he says is true.

Accordingly, I cannot accept what he says to be true. But that doesn't mean that I've concluded it's false.

As I said above, history is not always certain, particularly when the official record may not in fact be the actual record. While Dolan may be willing to travel further down the rabbit hole than I am, I'm convinced that there is a rabbit hole worth looking into.

In a world where you have Kelly Johnson and his top engineers and test pilots saying in 1953 they saw something that could not have been made by us, and then you have the United States Air Force explaining it away as a "lenticular cloud," how can one not accept that there are rabbit holes in our field of knowledge?


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In a world where on the one hand you have the Condon Report concluding that there is no scientific merit to the study of the UFO phenomenon, and then government after government saying that there is no defence significance to UFOs, and on the other hand you have a case like the 1976 Tehran incident, where the US Defence Intelligence Agency concluded that the value of the information garnered from the case was of "high, timely and of major significance," how could you not at least question the official history?


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In other words, there is "the truth"... and then there is the "other side of truth." The important thing about Dolan's work lies not in his conclusions, which may or may not be correct (in my opinion, some are, and some are not, but readers of his book - and it is worth reading - should judge for themselves), but in his encouragement to us to ask questions about the official story, not just concerning the UFO phenomenon, but about the very way our society is ordered, and how our governments treat the truth.


As for Dolan's anonymous sources that I and many others have been so critical of over the years, let me just say that my view changed when I was contacted in 2007 by a retired high level intelligence source who insisted on remaining anonymous. I met this man while in Washington in September, 2007 (which explains why I insisted that my travel companion Kris McBride and I tour the government sector separately the first afternoon we were there), and I recorded our conversation, with the understanding that it would not be released while he and his wife were still alive.

What I can say is this - he didn't give me any answers. It doesn't work that way. Rather, he encouraged me to ask questions, not about UFOs in particular, but about the broader issue of how the intelligence agencies manipulate information to keep us from seeing what really happened. He gave me a few clues about where to look, and what questions to ask.

If you're familiar with what I've written since, and what I may say in the future, you'll see some of what I've found, if you know where to look... and if you're willing to ask the right questions.

A final note of caution, however. At the end of my conversation in 2007 with my "source," I jokingly asked him why no-one had ever contacted me about becoming an intelligence asset.

His response?

"How do you know they haven't, and how do you know that you aren't?"

Which leads me back to Albert Speer.

Perhaps the correct question isn't to ask what he knew, or even what he wanted to know, but rather it is to ask what he didn't want to know.

Perhaps that's the question that, in our own way, we all need to ask, each and every day.

Paul Kimball
 
Nice post Paul. What your source said is quite true, the best intelligence asset doesn't know that he/she is an asset at all.

When I was in the USMC, it seemed that all of our troop movements were known days in advance by the local population. No matter how we tried to deny their "knowledge" they would have our movements down to the day and sometimes down to the hour. Scary stuff.
 
Nice post Paul. What your source said is quite true, the best intelligence asset doesn't know that he/she is an asset at all.

When I was in the USMC, it seemed that all of our troop movements were known days in advance by the local population. No matter how we tried to deny their "knowledge" they would have our movements down to the day and sometimes down to the hour. Scary stuff.

My source gave me another piece of common sense advice that should be obvious for anyone:

Always ask one question: who benefits?

The problem with a lot of modern conspiracists is that they consistently come up with the wrong answer to that question.
 
Paul, thanks for the thoughtful review. When I was an undergraduate I took a class entitled Intelligence and Covert Operations, which launched a lifelong interest in the study of the world's intelligence organizations.

It is certainly plausible that the world's major intelligence agencies (i.e., largely the American agencies) have occasionally used the core UFO phenomenon as a means of hiding military secrets and technological developments. However, I personally doubt the craft witnessed early during the Phoenix Lights episode, or generally speaking the instrumentalities behind the abduction phenomena, are human or military in origin. I also doubt that military or intelligence agencies are the cause behind the mutilation phenomenon. None of the above strikes me as common sensical.

Wernher von Braun allegedly warned of UFOs being used as a false threat against humanity. This also never struck me as correct. Perhaps he stated this, but is it accurately reflective of a government policy, at whatever level? There are easier ways to keep people in a state of fear than UFOs -- the threat of the Cold War or terrorism, for example. How about religion as an effective and efficient control mechanism?

I suspect that elements within the government -- more likely military intelligence -- have a better understanding of the UFO phenomenon than the rest of society, although I doubt they have a perfect knowledge of what is occurring. The denial of interest in UFOs is a means to prevent the flood gates opening: if UFOs do exist what about abductions? And as Sun Tzu wrote, "If he [your enemy] is in superior strength, evade him. . . . Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant." We tried to 'shoot them down' in the early 50s, and that failed, so perhaps we got smart and started to bid our time until we caught up technologically. What about Ronald Reagan's very odd statements in front of the U.N. and his support for Star Wars?

There is also certain fact patterns that lead one to believe that UFOs represent a threat beyond the military's control. For example, during the Hudson Valley flap, Phil Imbrogno reports that light beams were projected down on certain cars and homes as the craft flew over Westchester and Putnam Counties. Imbrogno observed that those individuals who were illuminated later had abduction experiences or other types of paranormal occurrences. If this is true, I doubt that human technology is able to connect specific individuals to randomly illuminated cars. If there was human intervention, it was with the small aircraft that the military arranged to subsequently fly over Westchester and Putnam Counties in an effort to confuse the population, or the farm animals later flown in to cover up the mutilations, to avoid a panic.

It is not clear to me who benefits from the UFO phenomenon, outside of "them". However, in life there are situations where people or organizations unwittingly benefit from certain occurrences, and on a certain level the military has benefited from the UFO phenomenon. I think the key is to not get bogged down in a wilderness of mirrors, like the former Head of Counterintelligence, James Angleton, did during the molehunts of the 1960s and 1970s when double and triple spies were all the rage.
 
I have read and enjoyed both of Richard Dolan’s books. A critique (Schuyler) was posted a couple of months ago on this form that I think had some valid points, for example the use of Steven Greer’s Disclosure as a source when he could have gone directly to the witnesses most of whom are still alive. However, Richard does manage to make what could a rather dry, chronological account into a pretty good read and it makes a handy reference book if you want to take look at major reported incidents in a particular year. So I’m glad I have both volumes on my shelf and I’ll get the third one when it’s available.

However, it has been pointed out by quite a few people that Richard has a very conspiratorial viewpoint. He does present an intriguing hypothesis in this regard. He is careful to point out what is speculation and what is fact, but the overall impression left to the reader is that this is very likely a factual account of the world we live in. This style of historical account interlaced with personal extrapolation and speculation makes the book more of a populist polemic than an academic work. This is fine and maybe even gives it some distinct flavour, but I think Richard potentially exposes himself to a lot of criticism by claiming to be ‘an acclaimed UFO historian’ (Richard M. Dolan). If you raise the bar that high you had better be able to back it up and considering he has never (as far as I know) held an academic post and many researchers believe his books do not meet the strict criteria for academic research, he leaves himself vulnerable to legitimate criticism. Maybe an ‘Unclassified History’ would be more accurately described as an ‘Alternative History’.

"Always ask one question: who benefits?

The problem with a lot of modern conspiracists is that they consistently come up with the wrong answer to that question."

Paul I am not familiar with much of your work on the issue although I have see you docmentary about the 10 best UFO cases and thought it was very good. So could you please explain this statement further? What are the wrong answers that you feel conspiracists come up with and more importantly what ones would be more correct? Thanks.
 
I remember watching a documentary a few years ago. It was a series about the life of Speer and his relationship with Hitler. Hitler admired and respected Speer for a number of reasons. If one could get inside the mind of lunatic for a moment here and I'm going take a few liberties here with this assumption. I've a feeling, Hitler had dreams and visions of what 1,000 Year Reich would like in the future. But Speer was the only man in his Cabinet and as a friend, who had the ability to explore Hitlers inner most thoughts about a Greater Germany and a Greater Reich. There is no doubting for me at least, he understood what Hitler dream was here more than everyone else. Speer was a successful Architect during his life long before the rise of the Nazi Socialist party and before him, meeting Hitler. Hitler himself moved to Munich because he wanted or aspired to be an Architect and wanted to make a living out of doing this type of Work. Unfortunately for Humanity he was turned away a lot for not being good enough. So i have an opinion, Hitler in a twisted way believed his failings became successes just by having Speer around. Again it just a guess on my part...
 
Paul I am not familiar with much of your work on the issue although I have see you docmentary about the 10 best UFO cases and thought it was very good. So could you please explain this statement further? What are the wrong answers that you feel conspiracists come up with and more importantly what ones would be more correct? Thanks.

Thanks - glad you liked BE.

In terms of conspiracists and conspiracies and how they get things wrong, I don't want this to devolve into a thread on that, but I will say that 9/11 is the most obvious modern one. All of the focus on the grand conspiracy that the government was behind the attacks is ludicrous, but it serves a definite purpose - and anyone who doesn't think that the intelligence agencies don't have a lot to do with the 9/11 "truth" movement is in my opinion hopelessly naive.

Again, the question is: "who benefits?" In short, whilst people waste their time on an easily dismissed conspiracy, what are they really missing, and who benefits from that?

The answer lies not in what happened on 9/11, a well-planned terrorist attack that caught the intel services woefully unprepared, but in what happened afterwards.
 
Again, the question is: "who benefits?" In short, whilst people waste their time on an easily dismissed conspiracy, what are they really missing, and who benefits from that?

When it comes to 9/11, you can ask any military contractor about what they earned because of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. But forgetting the conspiracy theories, at the very least, assuming no conspiracy, the Bush 43 White House received the warning signs and blissfully ignored them. Assuming the best of intentions, that's a tragedy in and of itself.
 
When it comes to 9/11, you can ask any military contractor about what they earned because of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. But forgetting the conspiracy theories, at the very least, assuming no conspiracy, the Bush 43 White House received the warning signs and blissfully ignored them. Assuming the best of intentions, that's a tragedy in and of itself.

Gene,

But by saying that the Bush administration received warnings and ignored them, you're aiding and abetting those who believe, falsely, that there was a pre-9/11 conspiracy. The Clinton administration received those same warnings, and did nothing. It was an intelligence failure - not the first, and certainly not the last.

By pointing to Iraq, you've hit closer the mark... and why people who have a lot to hide about that are quite happy to see attention diverted to the 9/11 "truthers," a conspiracy that is easily dismissed in the mainstream, but quite useful for distracting attention, and / or discrediting those who would question the actions of the administration after 9/11.
 
But by saying that the Bush administration received warnings and ignored them, you're aiding and abetting those who believe, falsely, that there was a pre-9/11 conspiracy. The Clinton administration received those same warnings, and did nothing. It was an intelligence failure - not the first, and certainly not the last.

Blame both then, though it appears the warnings were more immediate with Bush. Not heeding the warnings doesn't necessarily mean a conspiracy. They didn't do so well with Hurricane Katrina either, but former FEMA head Brown ("you're doing a good job") is saying the Gulf oil spill is a conspiracy on the part of Obama. In any case, governments can behave stupidly and still not be engaged in a conspiracy, though I grant plans for the Iraqi war were probably laid long before 9/11.
 
In terms of conspiracists and conspiracies and how they get things wrong, I don't want this to devolve into a thread on that, but I will say that 9/11 is the most obvious modern one. All of the focus on the grand conspiracy that the government was behind the attacks is ludicrous, but it serves a definite purpose - and anyone who doesn't think that the intelligence agencies don't have a lot to do with the 9/11 "truth" movement is in my opinion hopelessly naive. Again, the question is: "who benefits?" In short, whilst people waste their time on an easily dismissed conspiracy, what are they really missing, and who benefits from that? The answer lies not in what happened on 9/11, a well-planned terrorist attack that caught the intel services woefully unprepared, but in what happened afterwards.


IMO you're right on the money here. It became clear to me about four years ago that the "9/11 Truth Movement" is almost certainly being fed and encouraged by the intelligence agencies, after enquiring into some of the oft-repeated claims and discovering them to be without exception ill-informed bunk - though I can see how the more gullible and ignorant could be sold a few of them. I was bemused to discover about a year ago that Noam Chomsky's astute and intelligent observation "It wouldn't surprise me if, 30 years from now, we discover the 9/11 truth industry is being fed by the administration" had earned him the status of "shill" from the more neanderthal elements in the drone-army of believers: the naivety and ignorance evident from "truthers" in this example is astounding. INTEL complicity is staring them in the face. The fact that Shayler and Machon ("former" MI5 agents) have been inserted skilfully into leading positions in the UK "Truth movement" is evidence enough that this operation is not confined to the USA. Don't get me started on Carlos Estevez and his obvious role in this operation...

My gut feeling about why this is being done however has always gone beyond the obvious truth that the beneficiaries of the Iraq war and the billions misused and misappropriated in the scandalous "reconstruction" of that blighted country basically get a free ride and avoid real accountability so long as the "Truth Movement" continues to bring ridicule and scorn onto those who might question the excesses. Now, I'm gonna be seen as a conspiracist gone off the deep end, but here goes.

There exists a potentially troublesome minority in western societies with an anti-establishment mind-set: predominantly young, disenfranchised, politically radical and with time on their hands - look beyond the riot police lines at the G-20 meetings and you'll see thousands of them. How do you distract them from enquiring into the vitally important ET/UFO issue, and the huge black budgets allegedly appropriated to fund the development of new technologies to attempt to effectively manage it? You distract them with titillating grand conspiracies; you make sure they spend their time chasing phantoms, tilting at windmills. It's clever and to a large degree, it works. A person is sometimes smart, but people collectively can be pretty stupid, and easily manipulated into blind alleys. Plausible? You bet.


I watched several extended interviews with Speer recorded between 1970 and 1980, and he always came over as intelligent, reasonable, genuine and utterly convincing. He certainly played the "plausible deniability" card at Nuremberg very effectively, combined with perhaps some sincere remorse for his part in it all. However, stand back and ask: how could he possibly not have known about the persecutions? It's just not credible that he remained completely in the dark, in his elevated position. "Not wanting to know" is the only explanation, and it fits like a glove.

I know Rich Dolan; I like and respect him. Most people who know him would agree he's difficult not to like and find him intelligent, genuine and sincere, and very good-humored. However his overall thesis is a little too grand-conspiracy for many to swallow whole and as another poster commented "An Alternative History" might be a more appropriate title for his books. As we know some of his research methods have been the subject of detailed criticism on these forums - by Mike Schuyler for instance - and there is probably some merit to these criticisms.

But few are completely without error, and though Rich's research may be imperfect it's on the whole pretty darned good. He has the balls to publicly stand up, time after time, and make his case, puts himself on the line. He has IMHO made an informed, genuine and serious contribution to discourse on the UFO/secret government issue which at least deserves respect and acknowledgement - whilst, incidentally, at the same time making a living, carrying on family life and he and Karyn successfully home-schooling their quite wonderful kids. Quite a guy, even if you end up finding his grand-conspiracy narrative difficult to swallow at one sitting. He's up there with the best.
 
My gut feeling about why this is being done however has always gone beyond the obvious truth that the beneficiaries of the Iraq war and the billions misused and misappropriated in the scandalous "reconstruction" of that blighted country basically get a free ride and avoid real accountability so long as the "Truth Movement" continues to bring ridicule and scorn onto those who might question the excesses. Now, I'm gonna be seen as a conspiracist gone off the deep end, but here goes.

There exists a potentially troublesome minority in western societies with an anti-establishment mind-set: predominantly young, disenfranchised, politically radical and with time on their hands - look beyond the riot police lines at the G-20 meetings and you'll see thousands of them. How do you distract them from enquiring into the vitally important ET/UFO issue, and the huge black budgets allegedly appropriated to fund the development of new technologies to attempt to effectively manage it? You distract them with titillating grand conspiracies; you make sure they spend their time chasing phantoms, tilting at windmills. It's clever and to a large degree, it works. A person is sometimes smart, but people collectively can be pretty stupid, and easily manipulated into blind alleys. Plausible? You bet.

My view, which is reinforced by both an appreciation of history, politics, and an insider or two here and there telling me flat out this is what has happened, is that the 9/11 truth movement is used to distract and discredit anyone who would ask serious questions about the Iraq war, and whether or not it constituted a crime against peace (I won't knock Afghanistan, as it was UN authorized, and therefore legal, regardless of whether you like it or not), and the furtherance of the national security state in the years since 9/11.

The administration didn't plan 9/11 or bring it about (other than through negligence), but it used it to further these particular aims. If not for 9/11, it would have found another excuse at some point or time.

Paul
 
My view, which is reinforced by both an appreciation of history, politics, and an insider or two here and there telling me flat out this is what has happened, is that the 9/11 truth movement is used to distract and discredit anyone who would ask serious questions about the Iraq war, and whether or not it constituted a crime against peace (I won't knock Afghanistan, as it was UN authorized, and therefore legal, regardless of whether you like it or not), and the furtherance of the national security state in the years since 9/11. The administration didn't plan 9/11 or bring it about (other than through negligence), but it used it to further these particular aims. If not for 9/11, it would have found another excuse at some point or time. Paul

No argument there. It's right in line with what many astute observers have said to me.
 
But Speer was the only man in his Cabinet and as a friend, who had the ability to explore Hitlers inner most thoughts about a Greater Germany and a Greater Reich. There is no doubting for me at least, he understood what Hitler dream was here more than everyone else.

I don't know...this contradicts what I once saw in a movie. Someone told Speer that while he might be a member of the Fuhrer's "outer circle, perhaps" he would never be a part of the Fuhrer's inner circle. I'd assume that Goering, Hess, Himmler etc knew as much if not more.


Hitler himself moved to Munich because he wanted or aspired to be an Architect and wanted to make a living out of doing this type of Work.

I think he went to Vienna seeking to be an artist but failed an entrance exam.
 
I don't know...this contradicts what I once saw in a movie. Someone told Speer that while he might be a member of the Fuhrer's "outer circle, perhaps" he would never be a part of the Fuhrer's inner circle. I'd assume that Goering, Hess, Himmler etc knew as much if not more.

Take it as an opinion, it was meant to be taken literally. Of course there was "Inner Circle" around Hitler who knew plenty about what was going on. However "Speer" had unique talents that the others did not have, so Hitler (my view again) admired him more for this in my opinion. Here is another way to look at it ; Speer is often considered by Historians to be Hitler's best Friend (maybe) and remember they never grew up in the same neighbourhood or location or even went to the same school together. All i am saying both men had a love for Architecture. So this helped there friendship ( It logical) and maybe because of this Speer also understood more of Hitler thoughts and feeling about things and Yes, more than the other Nazi officials you mentioned above.


No he did spent time in Vienna he wanted to be a painter and do it for a living. He was turned away twice at different times from from the Academy of fine Arts in Vienna. Later he moved to Munich were his love for Architecture came about. He tried to get jobs as a Painter and an Architect but was unsuccessful. It's documented that he sold paintings to passers by and tourists and merchants, but what he earned was not enough to keep him of the Streets ( he was Homeless)
 
Gene,

But by saying that the Bush administration received warnings and ignored them, you're aiding and abetting those who believe, falsely, that there was a pre-9/11 conspiracy. The Clinton administration received those same warnings, and did nothing. It was an intelligence failure - not the first, and certainly not the last.

By pointing to Iraq, you've hit closer the mark... and why people who have a lot to hide about that are quite happy to see attention diverted to the 9/11 "truthers," a conspiracy that is easily dismissed in the mainstream, but quite useful for distracting attention, and / or discrediting those who would question the actions of the administration after 9/11.

If you go even further back, the FBI recieved warnings about the 1993 attack on the WTC and contemplated action but decided to do nothing.

Though I agree that what happened afterward the attacks of 9/11 is paramount, there should certainly be some importance and responsibility placed upon the actions/inactions of those that knew/had information pertaining to the events. The amount of coincidence and amassed failures point to more than just "an intelligence failure." But I agree that we must move our sights forward and take aim at the consequences especially the financial ones post 09/11.
 
If you go even further back, the FBI recieved warnings about the 1993 attack on the WTC and contemplated action but decided to do nothing.

Though I agree that what happened afterward the attacks of 9/11 is paramount, there should certainly be some importance and responsibility placed upon the actions/inactions of those that knew/had information pertaining to the events. The amount of coincidence and amassed failures point to more than just "an intelligence failure." But I agree that we must move our sights forward and take aim at the consequences especially the financial ones post 09/11.

I think all you need to remember is what happened when Colin Powell gave his speech before the UN council before the invasion of Iraq.. Every bit of what was claimed then has been proven to have been wrong or falsified. So there is your answer people; the planning for this war was already under way before this speech. The war in IRAQ was never about Weapons of Mass destruction, it was a Mask of deception more like and most of the world so called media bought into this deception. We expect or media to think critically and bring us informed debate here. I'm a average bloke and i could see there was something fishy about this whole mess before it occurred. Or media are highly intelligent in some cases but they lack the intelligence to see past the obvious lies.

Why do ordinary citizens always fall into the trap of believing there leaders go to war to protect them, but never once step back to think. Who beside me would this War benefit? and Why" The facts are Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq are the biggest oil exporters in the Middle east. Saudi Arabia, Iraq are in the back pocket of the United States "two players down who can't cause us trouble in the future"

So watch this space guys, I bet you a million dollars of your money that there will be a conflict with Iran of some sort in the next five years with the goal of taking over there oil fields and companies of Iran.

It's happening already, the same stuff that occurred before the Iraq invasion is happening now. Politicians will come out claiming all sorts over the next the few years, eventually it will lead to war. Obama is just a figurehead president all presidents in fact are controlled by the people who have the dollar sign in abundance.
 
The war in IRAQ was never about Weapons of Mass destruction, it was a Mask of deception more

Of course. WMD made no sense to me at the time--2002, early 2003. There HAD to have been another reason but not oil IMO.

Who beside me would this War benefit? and Why"


The war was largely motivated by neocons in Bush's administration. Wolfowitx, Feith, Perle etc were pro-Israel and wanted to transform Iraq into a democracy which supposedly would be copied throughout the region, supposedly make it "tamer" and safer for Israel.

The facts are Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq are the biggest oil exporters in the Middle east. Saudi Arabia, Iraq are in the back pocket of the United States "two players down who can't cause us trouble in the future"

:)Don't bet on it.

So watch this space guys, I bet you a million dollars of your money that there will be a conflict with Iran of some sort in the next five years with the goal of taking over there oil fields and companies of Iran.

War is indeed possible but the likely goal, again, will be benefitting Israel--by destroying Iran's nuclear program, thereby maintaining Israel's regional monopoly.

It's happening already, the same stuff that occurred before the Iraq invasion is happening now. Politicians will come out claiming all sorts over the next the few years, eventually it will lead to war. Obama is just a figurehead president all presidents in fact are controlled by the people who have the dollar sign in abundance.

In fact, AIPAC and other pro-Israel lobbies have WAY more clout than say, the oil companies.
 
Of course. WMD made no sense to me at the time--2002, early 2003. There HAD to have been another reason but not oil IMO.




The war was largely motivated by neocons in Bush's administration. Wolfowitx, Feith, Perle etc were pro-Israel and wanted to transform Iraq into a democracy which supposedly would be copied throughout the region, supposedly make it "tamer" and safer for Israel.



:)Don't bet on it.



War is indeed possible but the likely goal, again, will be benefitting Israel--by destroying Iran's nuclear program, thereby maintaining Israel's regional monopoly.



In fact, AIPAC and other pro-Israel lobbies have WAY more clout than say, the oil companies.

Trajanus if you don't think Iraq was about Oil your mistaken.
 
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