USA Decline

[0uterj0in]

The dollar is just one indicator among many (economic, cultural, military etc), but I believe that the geopolitical decline of the USA is a real phenomenon, and worth tracking.

Setting aside whether this is a good or bad thing, do you think this is history running its normal course? Or could the decline be happening by design? I don't see any direct evidence of conspiracy, but the pace of decline seems extremely rapid, even relative to the rest of modern history.

I'm imagining some kind of Asimov-style "Foundation" arranging America's downfall on purpose as part of some kind long-range plan...

I know, it's the pathetic fantasy conspiracists always indulge in. But fun to contemplate as an alternative to depressing reality.

 

[Xylo]

The dollar is just one indicator among many (economic, cultural, military etc), but I believe that the geopolitical decline of the USA is a real phenomenon, and worth tracking.

Setting aside whether this is a good or bad thing, do you think this is history running its normal course? Or could the decline be happening by design? I don't see any direct evidence of conspiracy, but the pace of decline seems extremely rapid, even relative to the rest of modern history.

I'm imagining some kind of Asimov-style "Foundation" arranging America's downfall on purpose as part of some kind long-range plan...

I know, it's the pathetic fantasy conspiracists always indulge in. But fun to contemplate as an alternative to depressing reality.

If you want to start looking for the beginning of the "Decline" you need to look back to, IMO, The GI Bill which began the government subsidization of higher education to veterans. This allowed for the expansion and addition of thousands of additional colleges and universities throughout the United States. Thus spreading the teaching/professorial talent pool of The US thinly across a wide area. Additionally this increased the number of schools which lowered the entry level qualifications for students. With lower entry level qualifications, the high schools did not have to teach higher level courses with high expectations.

I am not saying that a multitude of other factors didn't occur, just that it is my opinion that the GI Bill was a major contributor to the dumbing down and declination of the USA.


I think that the speed of the decline seems to have an accelerated pace in comparison to other dominant societies but one has to take globalization of our economy and speed of communication into consideration and adjust timelines accordingly.

 

[0uterj0in]

Interesting angle, I hadn't considered education as a factor, and I don't doubt that our average citizen is dumber than pre WWII. I don't know that this means we've lost our leadership position in higher ed, it's possible.

On the other hand, there has definitely been a huge net increase in the number of college graduates since WWII. And I struggle with the assertion that those college graduates are dumber on average than pre WWII college grads.

I haven't studied the GI Bill and its impact on educational standards -- could you point me to where your points are documented? Specifically:

The GI Bill widely dispersed college faculty
The GI Bill lowered college admission standards
The lowered college admission standards caused lower HS standards

 

[conor]

Ireland is Terminus, the little island at the edge of the world which secretly holds the key to a foundation for future civilisation!

I can dream

 

[Xylo]

The GI Bill widely dispersed college faculty
The GI Bill lowered college admission standards
The lowered college admission standards caused lower HS standards

I'll look for some documentation on this. Most of my points are my opinion only...once "college" turned into big business many more colleges opened their doors. (That which is subsidized with government funds will increase in number.) I remember hearing the phrase "Maybe you're not college material" spoken during the early 70's, when I was a child. I haven't heard that in many years...it seems that everyone is "college material" now.

 

[pixelsmith]

I don't see any direct evidence of conspiracy

you are joking right? 24 trillion dollars have been looted and and you see no evidence of a conspiracy?
i can give you 90% of the reason for a decline in two words. Federal Reserve. it is neither Federal OR a Reserve. it is part of a international banking cartel that is bringing this nation and other parts of the world to its knees, by design.

 

[0uterj0in]

I'm not joking. The question here is intent. You say the international banking cartel is bringing the USA to its knees. And I'd agree there may be circumstantial evidence for theft on a grand scale. But I'm not talking about theft as the objective. I'm talking about deliberately making the USA less powerful. And I don't see direct evidence for that. It's happening, but it can all be explained with the usual human political folly.

Or am I wrong? Any candidates for a fishy, not-quite-right historical anomaly?

 

[0uterj0in]

Ireland is Terminus

Ha, nice! Probably true for the medieval period. For modern times I've long guessed it was Israel:

• tiny rocky outpost with no natural resources
• created by imperial (UN) fiat
• forced to survive by self-reliant cunning, strategic alliance-building
• triumphed thru numerous crises by following just one possible path
• robust domestic high-tech sector

What say you?

 

[CapnG]

All empires decline, it is the weight of history pressing them down. Others may seek to speed that decline conspiratorally but it will happen inevitably. The scythe of history is not swayed by the height of the wheat it reaps...

 

[conor]

Ha, nice! Probably true for the medieval period. For modern times I've long guessed it was Israel:

• tiny rocky outpost with no natural resources
• created by imperial (UN) fiat
• forced to survive by self-reliant cunning, strategic alliance-building
• triumphed thru numerous crises by following just one possible path
• robust domestic high-tech sector

What say you?

Hmmm. Thats pretty interesting theory. The only thing i'd say is that terminus was out of the way, deceptively uninteresting, at least at the beginning. Isreal has never been out of the way or uninteresting. But everything else fits. Is the economic crash a selden crisis?

 

[Kieran]

Most of the great Empire's in history, crash and burn eventually, mainly due to the ego of the population who controls the empire or by greed, perfect example, is todays world where certain sections of the worlds population, exploited the poor for their own gain, and which has lead to civil unrest in certain countries in history.

The French revolution happened for many reasons, but one of the reasons, was that the poor were so hungry and living in terrible living conditions, and they saw how the elite of French society were exploiting them, when they got their chance, they revolted against this elite society of France who had all the wealth, and people who have read a history book on this historical event will know what happened next.

Also many of these Empires, that have existed through history, where always at war with some other nation on this planet fighting for causes which in all purposes where never for good.

You could open a book, a complete book of human history ,and you will see what i mean. Wars cost money, and the taxpayers usually pays for these weapons to fight wars, so logic if you go with it? if you spent billions of dollars on weapons in any country, naturally,eventually, you will have serious problems down the road "economically and socially.

 

[Cailean]

Ha, nice! Probably true for the medieval period. For modern times I've long guessed it was Israel:

• tiny rocky outpost with no natural resources
• created by imperial (UN) fiat
• forced to survive by self-reliant cunning, strategic alliance-building
• triumphed thru numerous crises by following just one possible path
• robust domestic high-tech sector

What say you?

I agree with you.

 

[0uterj0in]

And the decay marches on...

 

[Drew UK]

Check out Professor Paul Kennedy - he seems to be my favorite on the subject.

FORA.tv - Paul Kennedy: American Power in Today's Changing World

 

[0uterj0in]

"Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars."

 

[Kieran]

This is a documentary, i watched, last night on one of TV stations here in Ireland. It will also air on Australian TV also, i believe ABC 1 or 3. It made by a leading economist here in Ireland, his name is David M Williams. He was talking about our own economy here in Ireland, going into free fall, long before it happened.This documentary is going to be of three parts, this is the first part. He, has gone to the United States, China, Germany, Australia, and other countries looking for the root causes of the world economic collapse, and i think, this one of the best videos on the subject, if you watch it, you will see, what i mean.
http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1057039

 

[TerraX]

you are joking right? 24 trillion dollars have been looted and and you see no evidence of a conspiracy?
i can give you 90% of the reason for a decline in two words. Federal Reserve. it is neither Federal OR a Reserve. it is part of a international banking cartel that is bringing this nation and other parts of the world to its knees, by design.

Amen to that.
It's an unbelievable insane system, the Fed. The USA isn't a democracy anymore, it has become a corporatocracy. And you wonder why the USA declines?
Wikimedia Error

 

[Tom From Hong Kong]

When I was in college I took a class by a professor named Paul Kennedy, who wrote a popular book in the 80's called "The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers." Inevitably societies go into decline as a result of over-extension (often due to the military excursions) and an under-investment in their population & infrastructure. There are also cultural changes which led people to be less economically productive (no value judgement there, but it is what it is). Statistics demonstrate the growing bifurcation of American society, with fewer savers and many living off of leverage. Believe it or not, China now has more high net worth individuals than the U.K., behind only the U.S., Japan and Germany. Many speculate that in 25 years Shanghai and/or Hong Kong, not New York, will be the predominant centers for trade and markets, and frankly you can see it on the ground.

 

[0uterj0in]

And you wonder why the USA declines?

The factors are readily apparent, I guess I'm just wondering what the design is. Is the Fed cartel bankrupting the US for the purpose of weakening it? Or is the US decline an incidental side effect?

 

[TerraX]

The factors are readily apparent, I guess I'm just wondering what the design is. Is the Fed cartel bankrupting the US for the purpose of weakening it? Or is the US decline an incidental side effect?

I'm not an economic expert but in a recession there are even more oppertunities to make a financial killing, that is, if you have the financial might to weather the crisis and make investments at the same time.
I think the Fed cartel is not about to bankrupt the entire system. If that happens it will become painfully obvious who's holding all the credits. Maybe it's more like shaking the tree and let the bad apples fall out.

What I find so amazing about US society is that there aren't many people who realise what kind of economic system they are in. 1% of the U.S. population holds 95% of the wealth. That's the 'American Pipe Dream' if you ask me.