What's with Bill Birnes and the Glasses?

[Gene Steinberg]

Finally? Thanks for the compliment. I think.

 

[Paul Kimball]

If you ignore the UFO Hunters stuff Birnes has a decent record.

I'm not sure that anyone who is so intimately involved with the Philip Corso story can be said to have a decent record. Still, to each their own.

 

[Gareth]

I'm not sure that anyone who is so intimately involved with the Philip Corso story can be said to have a decent record. Still, to each their own.

Well I pretty much look at that fiasco as I do UFO Hunters. Corso is the primary culprit in that case.

And Gene, yeah I guess I could have worded that better. But I think you get what I mean

 

[Paul Kimball]

Well I pretty much look at that fiasco as I do UFO Hunters. Corso is the primary culprit in that case.

And Gene, yeah I guess I could have worded that better. But I think you get what I mean

How is Bill Birnes presenting Corso's crackpot claims any different than Paola Harris doing it? If one of them deserves to be taken to task for bringing Corso forward, they both do.

 

[Gareth]

How is Bill Birnes presenting Corso's crackpot claims any different than Paola Harris doing it? If one of them deserves to be taken to task for bringing Corso forward, they both do.

As far as I remember She wasnt taken to task for endorsing the content of the book. She was taken to task for trying to illegally publish it in Italy. (Gene - thats right, right?)

Oh, and for endorsing the Meier bullshit. She literally buys into that stuff. "He's the real deal!".

 

[Gene Steinberg]

As far as I remember She wasnt taken to task for endorsing the content of the book. She was taken to task for trying to illegally publish it in Italy. (Gene - thats right, right?)

Oh, and for endorsing the Meier bullshit. She literally buys into that stuff. "He's the real deal!".

Exactly. I really remain on the fence about the whole Corso episode. Whatever you think about Bill Birnes and his support of Corso, he has been totally consistent on that issue.

Harris? She's just another clueless dolt. There are far too many of those in the UFO field.

 

[Paul Kimball]

As far as I remember She wasnt taken to task for endorsing the content of the book. She was taken to task for trying to illegally publish it in Italy. (Gene - thats right, right?)

Oh, and for endorsing the Meier bullshit. She literally buys into that stuff. "He's the real deal!".

I don't recall the question of the legality of the rights to Corso's story coming up in the Harris interview, although I may be mistaken. Regardless, there aren't many UFO researchers who take Corso seriously, including pro-ETH ones like Stan Friedman, and those who do generally use as an excuse for Corso Birnes' supposed role in "embellishing" what Corso really meant.

Both Birnes and Harris have been integrally involved in keeping the Corso story going, to the detriment of serious UFO research.

 

[Paul Kimball]

Exactly. I really remain on the fence about the whole Corso episode. Whatever you think about Bill Birnes and his support of Corso, he has been totally consistent on that issue.

Harris? She's just another clueless dolt. There are far too many of those in the UFO field.

Gene,

With respect, Harris is an easy target. I think you are far too charitable when it comes to Birnes.

And with that, I'll wander away from this discussion.

Paul

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Gene,

With respect, Harris is an easy target. I think you are far too charitable when it comes to Birnes.

And with that, I'll wander away from this discussion.

Paul

Perhaps. But he impresses me as believing Corso for better or worse. Let's leave it at that.

 

[Tommy Allison]

Let's just put this in perspective: TV networks (cable and broadcast) are not in the information business. They are in the profit-making business. If a show gets good ratings, they get more sponsors who pay higher rates. That's what it's all about.

Whatever you think of Bill Birnes, he's just hired help. He plays his role and that's the beginning and end of it. Some of this chatter is real close to simply defaming him, and he has a right to make a living.

If you don't like the show, fine. Don't watch it. If people stop watching the show, they take it off the air and that's it.

If he were truly only hired help, then maybe he should quit his job if he finds that it is antithetical to the UFO Medium. It's never been about truth, it's about money, and peddling his magazine.

 

[Decker]

I was there at almost the beginning of the whole Corso business. I know Corso's background and at this point I keep his rendition in my grey basket.

However, one of the reasons I gave up on UFO Magazine, I got very "freaken" tired of arguing with Bill over the stories that he and Nancy (Bill's wife) were putting in the pages of UFO. My wife Vicki and I, for years, had tried to keep it factual ... or at least as much as is possible with UFO information. I was never shy about calling a Spade a God-damned shovel when occasion called for it. See my exposes on folks like Bill Cooper, Guy Kirkwood, George Green, Phil Klass, ah hell ... you get the idea.

When garbage like Project Serpo, the Dulce Base shoot out, that kind of crap started to hit the pages ... I knew it was time to bail. My blood pressure couldn't stand it. I get too "fricken" pissed off to put up with it.

Decker

 

[Tommy Allison]

I was there at almost the beginning of the whole Corso business. I know Corso's background and at this point I keep his rendition in my grey basket.

However, one of the reasons I gave up on UFO Magazine, I got very "freaken" tired of arguing with Bill over the stories that he and Nancy (Bill's wife) were putting in the pages of UFO. My wife Vicki and I, for years, had tried to keep it factual ... or at least as much as is possible with UFO information. I was never shy about calling a Spade a God-damned shovel when occasion called for it. See my exposes on folks like Bill Cooper, Guy Kirkwood, George Green, Phil Klass, ah hell ... you get the idea.

When garbage like Project Serpo, the Dulce Base shoot out, that kind of crap started to hit the pages ... I knew it was time to bail. My blood pressure couldn't stand it. I get too "fricken" pissed off to put up with it.

Decker

Hey Don, Want to work on a real magazine? I've published in the past, and I'm planning on doing it again.

 

[Decker]

Hey Don, Want to work on a real magazine? I've published in the past, and I'm planning on doing it again.

Tommy,

When Vicki and I published UFO, it was a REAL Magazine.

Before I answered you I would have to have a lot more information about what you plan. Lets just say ... who knows?

Decker

 

[Tommy Allison]

Tommy,

When Vicki and I published UFO, it was a REAL Magazine.

Before I answered you I would have to have a lot more information about what you plan. Lets just say ... who knows?

Decker

This is something I already knew. Will pm you some details.

 

[Frozen E.T. Burrito]

Glad I get the subscription emails to this thread so I can see what Tommy has had to say before the edits, because I think his original posts had points with strong doses of merit.

 

[Tommy Allison]

My original posts are my opinions, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the people who run the Paracast, which is why I edited them. Didn't want Gene to get another talking to by Captain Sunglasses.

I had to fucking laugh my ass off when I was told that my rantings on Bill were considered inflammatory, and defamatory. I guess the words of the average guy carry some weight in the UFO community. Who knew?

Oh well, I'm actually going to be making some cartoons like the ones I did of Korff long ago. Since it will be what they call PARODY, there's not a fucking thing anyone can say or do when I lampoon them.

 

[thefoundryman]

Hey Decker, I'm curious what your opinion of the Dulce Base is. Especially after the ol' Norio Hayakawa, town meeting. I've never heard of it until recently and you would have some insight into that particular case I'm betting.

 

[Decker]

Hey Decker, I'm curious what your opinion of the Dulce Base is. Especially after the ol' Norio Hayakawa, town meeting. I've never heard of it until recently and you would have some insight into that particular case I'm betting.

Foundryman, years ago Norio was a "poster-child" for the Paranoia Fringe element. He has since dropped out of UFO stuff ... completely.

Your right, I do have some insight into the entire Dulce Base bullshit. That all flowed from John Lear and John Grace aka Val Valarian. Complete and total bullshit ... that all came from poor deluded and screwed with Paul Bennewitz courtesy of Bill Moore and Rick Doty. Between Moore and Doty, they fed Bennewitz all kinds of crap and intentional disinformation at the behest of the AFOSI. This story in itself is complicated but they in effect drove Paul Bennewitz into a mental hospital. That is when Paul, convinced we were on the edge of an alien invasion, wrote his Project Beta paper and came up with the Dulce Base, the alien and Special Forces battle and all that CRAP. Pure BS from the get go. Then we had the likes of folks like Norio, and others in his orbit continue spewing this nonsense.

And ... it has never ended. Now we actually have some people in the pages of UFO Magazine that recently spewed this shit again. Makes me sick to be honest.

Decker

 

[Tommy Allison]

Did you see the episode of UFO Blunders with the special ops guys? The So Called COVERT OPS GUYS??? The Guys whose faces were ALL OVER THE SCREEN, SPECIAL COVERT OPS GUYS???

The whole Dulce base thing is absolute, and total bullshit. When the new tard they had was using the FLIR camera during broad daylight to find service vents and couldn't find anything, made me wonder just how intelligent you have to be to get on that show? I mean, had he used the thing at night, when the sun didn't warm everything up to a uniform temp, he might have seen something because it would have been cold enough to where the vent would be a blazing light on a field of blue.

Then again... I'm not a "scientist".

It's that sort of idiocy, coupled with the abject lunacy that makes me realize that the whole show is geared towards non-thinking morons who live in their parent's basements.

 

[spacebrother]

Decker said:

Your right, I do have some insight into the entire Dulce Base bullshit. That all flowed from John Lear and John Grace aka Val Valarian. Complete and total bullshit ... that all came from poor deluded and screwed with Paul Bennewitz courtesy of Bill Moore and Rick Doty. Between Moore and Doty, they fed Bennewitz all kinds of crap and intentional disinformation at the behest of the AFOSI. This story in itself is complicated but they in effect drove Paul Bennewitz into a mental hospital. That is when Paul, convinced we were on the edge of an alien invasion, wrote his Project Beta paper and came up with the Dulce Base, the alien and Special Forces battle and all that CRAP. Pure BS from the get go. Then we had the likes of folks like Norio, and others in his orbit continue spewing this nonsense.

Hello Don,

I thought you had quit this silly UFO business!

Have you read my book on this?
Moore fed Bennewitz a total of one piece of disinfo, as far as I can tell, at least for certain, which was the Aquarius teletype. Other involvement I have heard of appears to be speculation.

Paul Bennewitz came up with most of his own "disinfo," encouraged heavily by Doty, Ernest Edwards, and others in OSI, and probably (definitely one, from the CIA via Lockheed) unnamed others from various alphabet soup agencies.

Bennewitz was convinced we were on the edge of an alien invasion long before his family had him put in a mental health facility for about 2 months. He wrote and sent out the Project Beta paper in the fall of 1981, came up with his own idea about the Dulce "base," before that, and as far as I know, never mentioned a fight at the base. He did say that aliens were massing there and other places for some sort of attack. He was checked in to the Anna Kaseman facility in Albuquerque in August of 1988.

Norio Hayakawa has for some reason abandoned his belief in any sort of underground facility near Dulce, at least as of this year.

Lear, Valerian, and others carried on the Dulce story. Lear actually visited Bennewitz and apparently irritated him by making extrapolated inferences about Bennewitz' research. I believe that government people continued to interact with other UFO/ paranoia fans to further the Dulce story after Bennewitz left the scene in the late 1980s. I have no documentation or other proof of this, though.

In "Project Beta," I reported on the supposed reasons for the counterintelligence operation(s) that were run on Bennewitz, and some readers chose to criticize me for this, apparently taking this as an endorsement. My response is that I tried to report on events as objectively as possible, interviewing sources from both within and outside of the government, as well as referencing numerous open source print articles and books. I don't feel it is my duty to tell people what to think or suggest where they should point their moral compass. Of course I have my own opinions on the matter.

Hope this clears up a few things. I'm happy to see that you're still active, albeit in a less public capacity. Please say hello to Vicki for me.

Best,

Greg B.