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When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 & 12/16 Show
- Thread starter Miah
- Start date
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Miah
Skilled Investigator
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show
I'm still contemplating the best use of it, I could do it myself with my like-minded HTML guru friend. Or pass it on to The Paracast guys to run with. If there is a better cause, I very well may pass it there.
Until then, keeping it close to my chest.
I'm still contemplating the best use of it, I could do it myself with my like-minded HTML guru friend. Or pass it on to The Paracast guys to run with. If there is a better cause, I very well may pass it there.
Until then, keeping it close to my chest.
DanielBrenton
Jack of All Trades, Master of 1 or 2
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show
I put together some thoughts on how such an organization would work and circulated them to a handful of people, and to my utter astonishment this "proposal" was the central to the discussion of the next episode of The Paracast, which was taped yesterday evening (my time, PST). Beyond this, I was actually invited to present and discuss the ideas, with Gene and David, of course, as well as Jeff and Mac Tonnies.
It seems fair to me to give The Paracast listeners an opportunity to get the full drift of my suggestions prior to actually hearing the discussion. I have posted them on my blog under the title "A Modest (UFO) Proposal."
I am going to refrain from commenting on the discussion we had during taping until after the show airs, and will probably tend to hold back any other dialogue until that time as well, but I wanted to make this available.
As time goes on, this will get fleshed out more as it develops. Already I have some "take-away" from the discussion last night that I will be incorporating.
I'm sure we all will hear the "hasn't this been tried before and didn't it fail?" line repeatedly (it's already started) but in order to succeed in getting anywhere in this endeavor, we are going to have to make something like this work or we might as well pack it in and let the loons and charlatans completely delegitimize the subject.
But I don't think any of us who see the importance of this subject, either vicariously or from direct experience, can just walk away.
jritzmann said:
I put together some thoughts on how such an organization would work and circulated them to a handful of people, and to my utter astonishment this "proposal" was the central to the discussion of the next episode of The Paracast, which was taped yesterday evening (my time, PST). Beyond this, I was actually invited to present and discuss the ideas, with Gene and David, of course, as well as Jeff and Mac Tonnies.
It seems fair to me to give The Paracast listeners an opportunity to get the full drift of my suggestions prior to actually hearing the discussion. I have posted them on my blog under the title "A Modest (UFO) Proposal."
I am going to refrain from commenting on the discussion we had during taping until after the show airs, and will probably tend to hold back any other dialogue until that time as well, but I wanted to make this available.
As time goes on, this will get fleshed out more as it develops. Already I have some "take-away" from the discussion last night that I will be incorporating.
I'm sure we all will hear the "hasn't this been tried before and didn't it fail?" line repeatedly (it's already started) but in order to succeed in getting anywhere in this endeavor, we are going to have to make something like this work or we might as well pack it in and let the loons and charlatans completely delegitimize the subject.
But I don't think any of us who see the importance of this subject, either vicariously or from direct experience, can just walk away.
Miah
Skilled Investigator
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show
"By its nature, the community attracts people which might be categorized as outsiders by the mainstream. This is a given. Unfortunately, one of our biggest problems is that the community undermines its own credibility by accepting — and even promoting — the work and presence of individuals who are less than credible (often, substantially so)."
"The foundation stone of the Association would be a code, or body of covenants, to which the membership would have to abide. These covenants will state as plainly as practical what the expected conduct of the membership is as far as matters of the Association is concerned, and the criteria by which any research done under the auspices of — or with the sanction of — the Association will be. Adherence to the code would be mandatory. Non-compliance with the code would mean the suspension or termination of the membership of the non-compliant."
Now we're talking, some good ideas there. With leaders that are already well respected with reputations that are unblemished, the rest will follow. It's kind of like if MUFON were owned and run by guys like David, Gene, Ritzman, Nick Pope, Richard Dolan and Stanton Friedman. It would be a very different (and likely much more successful) organization.
For my part, I have internet marketing experience, sales experience, and have worked with some major media in my field. I am a guru with many aspects of computers, the internet, and gadgets. I also make decent money working from home, which makes me available and self-sustained.
Best of all I know for sure I'm not a nut.
"By its nature, the community attracts people which might be categorized as outsiders by the mainstream. This is a given. Unfortunately, one of our biggest problems is that the community undermines its own credibility by accepting — and even promoting — the work and presence of individuals who are less than credible (often, substantially so)."
"The foundation stone of the Association would be a code, or body of covenants, to which the membership would have to abide. These covenants will state as plainly as practical what the expected conduct of the membership is as far as matters of the Association is concerned, and the criteria by which any research done under the auspices of — or with the sanction of — the Association will be. Adherence to the code would be mandatory. Non-compliance with the code would mean the suspension or termination of the membership of the non-compliant."
Now we're talking, some good ideas there. With leaders that are already well respected with reputations that are unblemished, the rest will follow. It's kind of like if MUFON were owned and run by guys like David, Gene, Ritzman, Nick Pope, Richard Dolan and Stanton Friedman. It would be a very different (and likely much more successful) organization.
For my part, I have internet marketing experience, sales experience, and have worked with some major media in my field. I am a guru with many aspects of computers, the internet, and gadgets. I also make decent money working from home, which makes me available and self-sustained.
Best of all I know for sure I'm not a nut.
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show
And thats exactly the method to use. *Any* of these nut jobs in the UFO subject, will dry up and blow away if ignored. Any attention paid to them is a detriment not only to the subject in public view but to any of us as serious explorers of this issue.
It's worked incredibly well for NARCAP. As I told David on the phone late last night, dont expect a ton of reviews or accolades on your reports. These are going to take significant time to do, and the public attention is short. (i.e. see the reaction to the O'Hare report done by NARCAP...extensive, comprehensive, well written, and largely unspoken about.)
Don't worry how long it takes, we just have to do it right the first time, and not buckle to public pressure for reader's digest answers.
valiens said:
And thats exactly the method to use. *Any* of these nut jobs in the UFO subject, will dry up and blow away if ignored. Any attention paid to them is a detriment not only to the subject in public view but to any of us as serious explorers of this issue.
It's worked incredibly well for NARCAP. As I told David on the phone late last night, dont expect a ton of reviews or accolades on your reports. These are going to take significant time to do, and the public attention is short. (i.e. see the reaction to the O'Hare report done by NARCAP...extensive, comprehensive, well written, and largely unspoken about.)
Don't worry how long it takes, we just have to do it right the first time, and not buckle to public pressure for reader's digest answers.
valiens
Skilled Investigator
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show
Miah, we should talk.
Jeff, if you'd had money thrown at you to examine the O'Hare stuff, would it have affected the time it took to investigate? Do you think it's possible that with the right funding you could have come to the same conclusions in time for it to still be relevant to a news cycle?
Miah, we should talk.
Jeff, if you'd had money thrown at you to examine the O'Hare stuff, would it have affected the time it took to investigate? Do you think it's possible that with the right funding you could have come to the same conclusions in time for it to still be relevant to a news cycle?
DanielBrenton
Jack of All Trades, Master of 1 or 2
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 & 12/16 Sho
There has been some discussion of the organization I'm proposing “off line,” and a number of other individuals who have expressed direct interest in helping get this started. Forgive me for being coy, but I don't want to muddy the waters this early in the game, but I’ll be discussing some of that soon either here or more likely on my blog.
Miah said:
There has been some discussion of the organization I'm proposing “off line,” and a number of other individuals who have expressed direct interest in helping get this started. Forgive me for being coy, but I don't want to muddy the waters this early in the game, but I’ll be discussing some of that soon either here or more likely on my blog.
DanielBrenton
Jack of All Trades, Master of 1 or 2
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 & 12/16 Sho
For those who haven't heard the broadcast, David was pointing out the marketing reality that placing attractive women on the cover of magazines or using them as the spokespersons for the promotion of products or services is something that simply works.
Miah --
I think it's fair to say that the discussion is still in progress. I for one wouldn't want to push any potential resource aside.
Miah said:
For those who haven't heard the broadcast, David was pointing out the marketing reality that placing attractive women on the cover of magazines or using them as the spokespersons for the promotion of products or services is something that simply works.
Miah --
I think it's fair to say that the discussion is still in progress. I for one wouldn't want to push any potential resource aside.
They never said they weren't interested, but I'm sure they aren't going to jump full on into to support of an organization without knowing more about it first. Sounds like Gene has kinda been there done that anyway, with his past organizations of ufo conferences etc. I'm sure they thought the same things that MacTonnies voiced in that he would have to see what the organization was about before he would be interested.
Certainly it would be great to have another paranormal organization out there that included ufo study besides the old standards(besides the newer, silly one Joe Montaldo has created, called icar I believe). I would certainly be game for joining the right organization so good luck with your idea Daniel.
Btw, I've seen Richard Dolan and James Fox in cnn/fox interviews and both presented themselves in very respectful, (dare I say academic in the case of Dolan) manner. Perhaps one of those guys could make a good spokeman for the topic, of course they aren't hot chicks, darnit forgot about that requirement.
Certainly it would be great to have another paranormal organization out there that included ufo study besides the old standards(besides the newer, silly one Joe Montaldo has created, called icar I believe). I would certainly be game for joining the right organization so good luck with your idea Daniel.
Btw, I've seen Richard Dolan and James Fox in cnn/fox interviews and both presented themselves in very respectful, (dare I say academic in the case of Dolan) manner. Perhaps one of those guys could make a good spokeman for the topic, of course they aren't hot chicks, darnit forgot about that requirement.
Ron Collins
Curiously Confused
I agree with whoever said that such an organization would require some very significant funding. But it would also need a very diverse group of experts to objectively pour over the evidence. Such an organization would have to steer away from the "High Strangeness" of the phenomenon. Otherwise you loose all that PR credibility brings to the subject.
On that note, I suggest Oprah as the spokesperson. Seriously, if Oprah started to wave this banner, we would have congressional hearings in about a month.
On that note, I suggest Oprah as the spokesperson. Seriously, if Oprah started to wave this banner, we would have congressional hearings in about a month.
Don Keyhoe-Ti
Skilled Investigator
Re-inventing the wheel imho.
I have to disagree with staying away from the high-strangeness. Most researchers in the current field already do that and it gets them nowhere. Of course my definition of high strangeness might be different than yours, Ron.
Had to agree with most of the people on the show, that the study would have to include many aspects of the paranormal, ghosts, etc. To me, that's all highly strange.
Had to agree with most of the people on the show, that the study would have to include many aspects of the paranormal, ghosts, etc. To me, that's all highly strange.
Poi said:
There is no way one group can even begin to explore all this stuff, much less one topic. If that is the case then the group should include all information on current brain chemistry research, consciousness studies(like repeatable productions of things like old hag syndrome, etc), and other areas that seem to overlap what we might percieve as high strangeness. Because, in fact, the high strangeness might be part of our own internal reactions to stimluli. This would generate a group larger than any known group to date.
The other thing is that when a high strangeness account becomes known as a fraud or hoax, the whole group pays the price in lowered credibility for considering it in the first place. I don't dismiss the strangeness factor and it has it's own merits, but I don't think it's feasable for a group to study because it is too vast. Now perhaps there could be some type of compartmentalization whereby groups are locked into certain genres. But again this is quite an undertaking and IMO impossible. And who would the watchdogs be, where would the money come from, and where do you find truly objective researchers and reviewers?
I got the impression that the research wouldn't be available to just anyone, only the results of an investigation. It came in the form of a suggestion, I thought, but maybe I misunderstood.
As for the rest of your argument, TC, it's a good argument unless the group only takes cases that at least pass some litmus test for possibly being credible. It does seem like a huge undertaking though.
As for the rest of your argument, TC, it's a good argument unless the group only takes cases that at least pass some litmus test for possibly being credible. It does seem like a huge undertaking though.