Young Earth Creationists

[UBERDOINK]

all that business about respression and supression...

Gloss over a very major thing! Something that would prove a great portion of science unreliable.

But again, its more important you get to your non-biased opinion that religion is bad. science is perfect (oh yeah, and not a belief system).

Bias much?

 

[CapnG]

But again, its more important you get to your non-biased opinion that religion is bad. science is perfect (oh yeah, and not a belief system).

I never said that. I did however say this:

Science has labs, lasers, computers and (most importantly) a responsibility to be accountable to itself. The Bible is a book and a really old one at that, written by at least a dozen different authors over a span of centuries. It is NOT an empirical resource. It's not even a coherent one. If you must label science as merely an alternate "belief system" then it is a vastly superior system.

Pity you didn't read it...

 

[UBERDOINK]

It is NOT an empirical resource

few things are, if any. Most of science is not empirical, that's according to ANY scientific journal. They aren't that arrogant.

FYI if you read my post, that has the article on how Peer Review is not a arbitrator of truth, maybe it would open you eyes a bit more.

Could you point out why simply the idea that God created the universe is completely incoherent? and not just a belief? like science?

 

[CapnG]

few things are, if any. Most of science is not empirical, that's according to ANY scientific journal. They aren't that arrogant.

But religious fundamentalists ARE that arrogant. That's the whole POINT.

Could you point out why simply the idea that God created the universe is completely incoherent?

I never said this. Again, you have missed the point. The argument is not that "god created the universe". As a deist even I must concede this is possible, even probable (as my preference, MY belief). However, the case is not made that the CHRISTIAN GOD created the universe as the fundamentalists insist and that everyone else is wrong, WRONG, WRONG! And going to hell for being wrong.

With science, if you're wrong you go back to the drawing board. With religion you burn for eternity. Which sounds more reasonable to you?

 

[UBERDOINK]

Which sounds more reasonable to you?

Well, if we don't make a cartoon of the belief system, lets state it accurately.

- God, a Divine Creator, shaped the universe.
- Humans were bestowed by that Creator with free will, the ability to choose what they want to think, do and believe.
- If humans choose to separate themselves from God, then when they die, they won't be forced to spend their spiritual existence with the Creator they have already made the choice to live apart from.

Why is that such an unreasonable belief system? I have to say, you do sound VERY BIGOTED against Christians specifically.

Don't Muslims send you to hell too? (well, blow you up first ;-). Don't even Buddhists force you to adhere to very strict morals or be forced to come back potentially as something unsavory?

What's the difference?

Most belief systems have consequences for our personal actions? if not, wouldn't they be inconsequential? and worthless?

 

[CapnG]

Well, if we don't make a cartoon of the belief system, lets state it accurately.

Stop. Whether you like it or not, Uberdoink, the cartoon IS the viewpoint of fundamentalist christians. They're literalists. Your attempts to create an apologist/sanitized viewpoint are wasted efforts, their beliefs are quite clear and specific, not the more reasoned generalizations you're making.

I have to say, you do sound VERY BIGOTED against Christians specifically.

One last time: FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS. Not ALL christians. That's who we're talking about here. If you have arguments or defences to make, you must make them for that branch of the faith only because it is with them that problems noted in this thread lie. If you think all christians are alike, man do you have some surprises in store...

Don't Muslims send you to hell too? (well, blow you up first ;-). Don't even Buddhists force you to adhere to very strict morals or be forced to come back potentially as something unsavory?

Which only adds weight to my arguments and removes it from yours. Thanks!

 

[UBERDOINK]

Stop. Whether you like it or not, Uberdoink, the cartoon IS the viewpoint of fundamentalist christians.

well I will admit, if you mean a small sect, and a very American branch of Christianity, and not the Fundamental tenets of the faith, then I have to agree.

One last time: FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS. Not ALL christians.

I know "Fundamentalist's" (I hate that term as it's sooo misleading) that believe that the King James version of the bible is the only true word of God. They also believe all kinds of quasi-cultist things.

But that IS NOT what mainstream Christianity is about, if you look at a global perspective and not just a deep south perspective (sorry to you southerners) you can see a viewpoint more like what I have outlined, which is the historically traditional part of the Christian belief system.

I guess I'm not defending people that say the Earth is 6000 years old and Adam road dinosaurs.

I am though stating that the historic Christian doctrine is not so easily dismissed, if you take the time to study what it actually has to say.

 

[CapnG]

I am though stating that the historic Christian doctrine is not so easily dismissed, if you take the time to study what it actually has to say.

To be sure there is much to be admired in the christian philosophy. The problem is that that philosophy quickly becomes mired in the trappings of ritual and dogmatic tenets. That's the point when it becomes a religion. That's when it starts giving me problems.

And should you think I speak out of some malice or ignorance, I should add that my father was an Anglican priest and that I have read the bible (well, most of it). I know of what I speak. If my bias appears to be towards christianity then it is a bias of ignorance of other religious dogmas, not of premeditated hatred. I'm quite certain the trappings of other religious systems are equally ludicrous in their own right.

 

[UBERDOINK]

as long as your an equal opportunity religious hater then I can't argue with your beliefs.