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3/25/2012 - Brendon O'Brien - Brilliant, Bigoted or just plain Whacky?

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I did find it interesting when they started talking about the actual Mayans that are still around. I met some when I went to Mexico in 2007 - it was really interesting.
I remember seeing an interview with a Mayan where someone asked about the "prophecy" and she laughed.
 
I always find the disconnect that paranormal investigators have with religion interesting and a little frustrating. Here we have a group that believes in aliens, bigfoot and the spirit world but has a problem with God and religion. Of course, I tend to think all of the above are real in some manner and believe that these are more creations of God. Now, I'm not Catholic so of course Brendon's personal experiences outweigh mine but let's be upfront here: those experiences cause him to paint with a very broad brush and remove all historical context from the equation.
 
Ahhhh, but if and i say if UFO's are simply nuts and bolts craft from another solar system, and bigfoot is simply an uncataloged hominoid, then your statement may as well be

Here we have a group that believes in Boeing 747's, and gorillas but has a problem with God and religion.
 
I don't believe in bigfoot at all. But, if there is one then it most likely is a uncataloged primate of some sort. Nuts and bolts ufo's? Well, it's a big ole universe so I can't say they don't exist. I've never been convinced of it but it's certainly possible. I will also have to say that if "abductions" are anything other than sleep paralysis or some kind of hallucination then they are most likely separate from the nuts and bolts ufo question. I think the work of John Keel and Vallee is very interesting. I don't think we are anywhere near understanding the creatures we are. Much less the reality of off world beings. If there are any. ;)
 
Good points, pickles and tyder.

Kim's syllogism:

Boeing 747s do not equal nuts and bolts UFOs
Gorillas do not equal Bigfoot

Therefore, huh, what's the point?
 
I've just perused this thread (it's WAY too complicated for me to catch up) but as a born-and-raised Lutheran - turned - agnostic, I can say that when it comes to Christian Bashing I'm one of the biggest and best out there. However I will disagree with one thing I read here (somewhere); there are some positive aspects of organized religion, whether it's Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. Some of those positive aspects include; social cohesion, resource-sharing (finding jobs, for instance), charity contributions toward the elderly or ill, and yes, even at times, a sense of openness and acceptance. I've experienced all of these as well as the negatives that, at time, contradict this list.
 
Angel of Ioren said:
I did find it interesting when they started talking about the actual Mayans that are still around. I met some when I went to Mexico in 2007 - it was really interesting.
I remember seeing an interview with a Mayan where someone asked about the "prophecy" and she laughed.
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Penn and Teller's Bullshit episode when they're talking about the 2012 prophecy nails it, I think. They were talking to a Mayan "princess" and asked her about the end-of-the-world catastrophe. She looked at them in confusion and said, "What? There will be no catastrophe," at which point Teller voiced over, "Well what the F**K does she know!" I almost pee'd myself I laughed so hard.

Anyway, no 2012 end-of-days. Sorry folks. We'll be able to continue talking about Roswell, alien abductions, and everything else quite safely in 2013.

Although I have to say I LOVE the show Doom's Day Preppers on National Geographic channel! They have a lot of episodes related to events which will supposedly occur in Dec.
 
pickles said:
I always find the disconnect that paranormal investigators have with religion interesting and a little frustrating. Here we have a group that believes in aliens, bigfoot and the spirit world but has a problem with God and religion.
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Kim323 said:
Boeing 747s do not equal nuts and bolts UFOs
Gorillas do not equal Bigfoot
Therefore, huh, what's the point?
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I see what Mike is getting at. Cargo cults for example viewed (mundane to us) nuts and bolts aircraft essentially as UFOs, magic, or supernatural vehicles due to their ignorance of any sort of aircraft. Before 1902 the Gorilla gorilla beringei was an unknown subspecies that generated monster stories. Folks who view UFOs as possibly being hardware someone has built in a factory somewhere (nuts and bolts) or tales of Bigfoot as a potentially yet unclassified animal species have those things to point to.

In comparison there have been no cases that I am aware of where stories or claims about specific supernatural beings who make demands and requirements known through their human representatives to the rest of us have correlating real world examples to draw upon.

While I recognize that weird often seemingly inexplicable things do happen to people, I am more skeptical of folks interpretations of them than I am of the actual experiences themselves. We know we are surrounded by a larger physical reality than our senses are capable of reporting. It appears that sometimes things from that larger superset intrude on human reality in the form of strange and anomalous phenomena. It's like the fellow said, “Something is seen, but one doesn't know what.”

The problem in discussing UFOs or gods is when you start to talk specifics. UFOs are that and they come from here and they want this. Supernatural being X comes from here and wants this isn't much different. There are a great many FIOA documents concerned with the governments dealings with the subject of UFOs as physical phenomena tracked on radar and observed by multiple witnesses. I am not aware of any documents obtained that express any concern or interest in dealing with supernatural beings (the gods) as expressed through human religion. While I do think Vallee's Messengers of Deception does address some interest by various governments (US and France?) about the activities of UFO cults I do not think they were concerned about it from a supernatural angle. Nick Redfern's The Collins Elite group story (where UFOs are viewed as demonic entities) really doesn't have any supporting documentation that I recall although I do not find that big of a stretch that such a group may have existed and held those views.
 
Well said, and that was my point

There is physical evidence of "something" in regards to UFO's and bigfoot/yeti/yowie's

yeti1.jpg


There are also contemporary eye witness accounts, including from pilots, police, doctors etc.

There is no evidence for god/s, none.

In comparison there have been no cases that I am aware of where stories or claims about specific supernatural beings who make demands and requirements known through their human representatives to the rest of us have correlating real world examples to draw upon.
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So to lump god into the same set as bigfoot and UFO's is clearly disingenuous.
 
Now, what am I going to do with you two? More leaps of fancy that require the very faith that you deny and decry in those who have beliefs in "that subject."

More equations and syllogisms, and I'll start with a couple of inequalities:
Cargo cult is not equal to evidence for UFOs.
Undiscovered gorilla does not equal evidence for Bigfoot.

Therefore, the claim that these things on our planet provide "correlating real world examples" for 1. Intelligently controlled vehicles from other planets/dimensions, and 2. An equally out of this world ape with a very gigantic shoe size are on the face of it examples rather of faulty deduction.

Ergo and furthermore, UFOs and Bigfoot have no evidence to support them, and I have addressed this pressing world problem regarding intelligent extraterrestrials on other threads and recommended real books by real scientists who have serious doubts about this anthropomorphic perspective.

If I dare to suggest something, may I say that actually there are many examples of human contact with "that subject". I will go no further than that.

May I also suggest that some introspection might be employed in examining what seems to engender a very visceral reaction on the part of some regarding "that subject"?

There is more evidence for "that subject" than for intelligently controlled craft and for an anthropoid needing the big and tall store for his attire on his big date put together.

I think some are actually very willing to take certain things on faith than they are willing to acknowledge, thus resulting in some very convoluted lines of reasoning so they can then attribute their faith to science as a cover. Trouble is, neither science or evidence point to an existence of what they take on faith.

Submitted in good faith,

Sincerely yours,
Kim
 
Kim, as I'm sure you know the U in UFO stands for Unknown. I think I've made it abundantly clear what I think about claims about their origins regardless of how you choose to represent it.

The correlating real world examples were of things that were once misidentified and misunderstood through ignorance, but I'm sure you understood that.

Are you denying that UFOs are real objects that have been tracked by radar, seen by multiple reliable witnesses, and are the subject of countless government generated documents?

Is there a particular supernatural being that you feel you could make a case for having been revealed to be real such as the real airplanes behind the creation of the cargo cults and the real new subspecies of highland gorilla?
 
Kim, Pickles,

First, I made a mistake, the U in UFO doesn't stand for Unknown, it of course stands for Unidentified. LOL! What can I say, it was the end of a very long day.

I've thought about this and it might be better to put all this into a less confrontational context by reframing it a bit.

"Why should we trust what any apparition, be that UFO, spirit, non-human entity or what have you, may communicate to us about who or what they actually are?" In other words, how can trust anything allegedly communicated from these things whether you want to label them paranormal, supernatural, undiscovered natural phenomena, or hallucinations?

I think the problem with believers in gods, UFOs, or any paranormal phenomena is when they begin to speak in absolutes and sureties about the origins and motivations of these apparitions.

I have spoken to several people over the years who have encountered things they are sure were non-human created aircraft. I have also spoken to people (and I was one of them at one time) who believed they had experienced some level of an encounter with specific supernatural beings. There is an incredible need to just know and be done with it. These are just some of the great unknowns and inexplicable experiences that people have that we fill with our own fears and desires.

I think there is good evidence for genuine Unidentified Flying Objects or Unknown Aerial Phenomena existing. That is to say, there are things that people see flying around that cannot be identified. I certainly don't think it is all the same thing. I am open to the idea that the source of some of the UFO phenomena and the source of some paranormal or supernatural phenomena being the same thing. I think are plenty of examples of the blending of UFO and supernatural phenomena.

At any rate, in the end it translates out to a big blur.
 
I still have no idea what the hell O'Brien is talking about and I don't understand the "metaphorical battery" concept. If it's a metaphorical construction how can it have a real function (i.e. something beyond a metaphorical one)? Also, directly addressed to Mr. O'Brien: would you be able to get away with advancing a similar canard about the Jews and would you have the balls to do it? Would that make a difference in the way you approached it?
 
First, I made a mistake, the U in UFO doesn't stand for Unknown, it of course stands for Unidentified. LOL! What can I say, it was the end of a very long day.
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semantics it more or less means the same thing and we all know what was meant by it Trained so no panic :)

And considering a recent close encounter of my own which I will not talk about on the open forum I tend to swing to the nuts and bolts end of the argument now.. sure looked solid to me. Can I prove it.. nope .. but can anyone prove any of this stuff? ... please insert answer here -----> <-------------
 
mike said:
There is no evidence for god/s, none.
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Other than your existence?

So to lump god into the same set as bigfoot and UFO's is clearly disingenuous.
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Yes and no. Science and the supernatural (natural stuff we haven't properly placed in its box) are mere studies or attempts to explain God's work. The two aren't mutually exclusive and cannot be, by definition.
 
pickles said:
Other than your existence?



Yes and no. Science and the supernatural (natural stuff we haven't properly placed in its box) are mere studies or attempts to explain God's work. The two aren't mutually exclusive and cannot be, by definition.
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Ok burden of proof .. that means you as the believer need to show repeatable testable evidence that supports the claim that a supernatural being or god can and dose exist ... The burden of proof is not on the non believer as they make no claim to its existence.

So please show me your testable, repeatable evidence that shows us that god created us..
Faith and the bible are not evidence at all.
 
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