A Troubling Observation About UFO Reality

[marduk]

There simply is, and never will be, ANY REAL level of understanding for this phenomena based on, or taken from, reported sightings or experiences with the phenomena associated with UFOs.

The phenomena bears out so many critical distinguishing characteristics, that for us to develop any type of linear working hypothesis, we must willfully discard as much critical information, as we subjectively choose to keep and maintain.

The phenomena associated with the UFO riddle remains unidentified.

That's like saying that because the sun has always come up in all of human history, the sun will come up forever.

One day, our sun will go out.

The black swan effect is real and the UFO stuff is a perfect example of its effect.

 

[Randall]

Of course, by far the most parsimonious view. Add landing traces etc to your list above. With regard to abductions, there appears to be a clear association with UFOs and aliens, in some cases at least.

Definitely. There are "associations" between the UFO phenomenon and other bizarre experiences. It's just that by comparison to the core phenomena ( UFOs ), they're further out on the radar ( so to speak ). My pet theory is that most Fortean phenomena that aren't misperceptions, misinterpretations, or hoaxes can be explained by a high-tech alien presence that is studying our world.

 

[Burnt State]

Definitely. There are "associations" between the UFO phenomenon and other bizarre experiences. It's just that by comparison to the core phenomena ( UFOs ), they're further out on the radar ( so to speak ). My pet theory is that most Fortean phenomena that aren't misperceptions, misinterpretations, or hoaxes can be explained by a high-tech alien presence that is studying our world.

I don't understand why we are always so ready to give agency to a source behind anomalous experiences, make myths into reality and call an identity forward out of the many visions people have had from dog faced men smoking cigarettes to seeing giant catfish aliens in boots standing outside their enormous honeycombed flying saucer made of out of spider webs, their gills opening and closing at their backs.

Why do we see ourselves as under observation, monitored by an unknown force from the sky? Is it because we have always done this as a means to explain our inability to fully understand the strange things we see. Out of shafts of light and burning bushes must we invent gods and turn ourselves into rats in a maze. If that's only what the UFO experience teaches us then that's pretty sad.

If it all turns out just to be aliens from space then that would be disappointing. I think these ideas limit what can be gained from investigating the biological act of perceiving, and its hardened definition of what is going on excludes what else might be taking place.

 

[Randall]

... Why do we see ourselves as under observation, monitored by an unknown force from the sky?

We see ourselves as under observation from unknown forces in the sky because unknown forces observed in the sky or as coming from the sky and returning to the sky have been reported by many witnesses.

Is it because we have always done this as a means to explain our inability to fully understand the strange things we see.

No. It seems more to me that witnesses have simply described what they've observed using the best terminology they had at the time, and that over time, we've learned to look at UFO reports through the lens of science & technology rather than religious faith and superstition.

Out of shafts of light and burning bushes must we invent gods and turn ourselves into rats in a maze.

That depends on who you mean by "we". I don't deify the aliens, but the rats in maze analogy seems to fit rather well ... lol.

If that's only what the UFO experience teaches us then that's pretty sad.

That's a subjective opinion. I still find the whole subject rather interesting.

If it all turns out just to be aliens from space then that would be disappointing.

That reminds me of Vallée's sentiment from some years back that IMO was in-line with the theme of the books he was promoting at the time ( e.g. dimensions ). Personally I think that if it turns out that aliens are from space, that it would be totally cool and prove beyond doubt that intelligent life exists elsewhere and that interstellar exploration is possible, and that it could inspire a whole new direction for mankind that advances our technology out of the rocket age and sends us to the stars.

I think these ideas limit what can be gained from investigating the biological act of perceiving, and its hardened definition of what is going on excludes what else might be taking place.

The "biological act of perceiving" is an absolutely amazing phenomenon with a proven correlation to real world events. So maybe if you could clarify your statement there it might help, because right now I don't know what you're referring to. Can you provide some sort of example?

 

[Trajanus]

We see ourselves as under observation from unknown forces in the sky because unknown forces observed in the sky or as coming from the sky and returning to the sky have been reported by many witnesses.

Right and in addition many entities have been observed taking biological samples--of everything from weeds to human skin.

No. It seems more to me that witnesses have simply described what they've observed using the best terminology they had at the time, and that over time, we've learned to look at UFO reports through the lens of science & technology rather than religious faith and superstition.

Very well said.

Personally I think that if it turns out that aliens are from space, that it would be totally cool and prove beyond doubt that intelligent life exists elsewhere and that interstellar exploration is possible, and that it could inspire a whole new direction for mankind that advances our technology out of the rocket age and sends us to the stars.

Exactly the right attitude. Fabulous post!

 

[Burnt State]

We see ourselves as under observation from unknown forces in the sky because unknown forces observed in the sky or as coming from the sky and returning to the sky have been reported by many witnesses. No. It seems more to me that witnesses have simply described what they've observed using the best terminology they had at the time, and that over time, we've learned to look at UFO reports through the lens of science & technology rather than religious faith and superstition. That depends on who you mean by "we". I don't deify the aliens, but the rats in maze analogy seems to fit rather well ... lol. That's a subjective opinion. I still find the whole subject rather interesting. That reminds me of Vallée's sentiment from some years back that IMO was in-line with the theme of the books he was promoting at the time ( e.g. dimensions ). Personally I think that if it turns out that aliens are from space, that it would be totally cool and prove beyond doubt that intelligent life exists elsewhere and that interstellar exploration is possible, and that it could inspire a whole new direction for mankind that advances our technology out of the rocket age and sends us to the stars. The "biological act of perceiving" is an absolutely amazing phenomenon with a proven correlation to real world events. So maybe if you could clarify your statement there it might help, because right now I don't know what you're referring to. Can you provide some sort of example?

OK but in the same light we have allowed our selves for thousands of years to be defined by an external stimulus from voices and images in the sky that we converted into religions. In each of these spaces we give our power away freely and surrender ourselves to a higher and controlling power. I think if UFO's were trying to control us they would have given us dogma by now like in the Abrahamic religions or they would have asserted themselves in more oblique ways.

Given their surreptitious nature i see no control at work, nor do i see observation. What i do see is humans taking many witness stories and manufacturing a very familiar story line to use to explain Fortean phenomena as something systematic, defined by a outside power. None of that has been proven yet, so i see all this ETH bible talk to be a very limiting approach to a very unique historical phenomenon. Why must we try to insist that the stories witnesses tell is the gospel truth when biology and neurology tell us otherwise?

I think that the Alien Abduction phenomenon is a really important place to start deconstructing the narrative that witnesses tell. Because if you actually believe there is a logic to not just the many tons of soil samples collected, or the kazillions of mutilated cattle, but you see that all these abductions are necessary events for the alien scientists who perform radical surgery, create hybrid babies, leave implants, speak telepathically, show people star systems on pull down charts, fly in tanks, use pulley systems for doors, need water from the locals in jugs and cook pancakes, probe us and have sex with us -- well then there's not much to talk about after that. Once you subscribe to dogma where can you go? I prefer Vallee's notion that we need to stop bringing ideology to the table and that means that witness stories are not gospel truth but a guide to help us understand how human beings respond to anomalous experiences.

1/3 of the neurological system is devoted to sight. And yet still our biological capacity for perception is rather limited, but it's just what we need to survive and thrive (Donald Hoffman). Our experience of reality is a virtual one inside our heads and so everything perceived externally is symbolic and not veridical. So then, how can we being to speak confidently about something that hangs out at the far edges of human perceptual capacity as the UFO is? It is something that exists primarily in the minds of witness memory with hardly any true hardcore verifiable cases, despite many people's fervent belief in Ted Phillips. Because of its bizarre capacities and non-sensical behaviours of both the craft and its occupants it appears to be something that we just don't have words for (Jerome Clark).

We still do not have a single verifiable image of an alien craft (Jaques Vallee) and yet we still want to say it's aliens from space in flying saucers; because the narrative is a simple one and is useful to connect the dots once we shave away all the high strangeness and irrational reports. It suggest to me something far stranger than the ETH is taking place so starting from that point is not really going to help evaluate cases or move the discussion forward. How can you evaluate an event if you start from the place of aliens from space?

 

[Burnt State]

And as far as stealing fire from the gods maybe we need to recognize that we never needed a myth to grow our capacity as a species. We are highly imaginative creatures whose art and science is its own kind of magic. We've been doing it for thousands of years and we don't need a god to inspire us or any one of the thousands of alien races that apparently visit us. We can see almost to the birth of the universe with our tools we have made to augment our experience of reality. We did that, just like sending out our probes beyond the solar system and putting people on the moon - we did that on our own. And we'll get our there without ET to help, encourage or guide us. Belief in myths is limiting and controlling.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

We still do not have a single verifiable image of an alien craft

(Great post btw);

Well, for a while I thought we had some. I mean, c'mon, Wendelle Stevens told us that "the computer" tells us that the craft (Meier) is about 100 yards from the camera and is about 30 feet in diameter". Then the other two that I thought were genuine turns out to be a model train wheel and a truck mirror.

I'm still holding out hope that in my lifetime - I'll finally get to see the real deal.

 

[victimized]

(Great post btw);

Well, for a while I thought we had some. I mean, c'mon, Wendelle Stevens told us that "the computer" tells us that the craft (Meier) is about 100 yards from the camera and is about 30 feet in diameter". Then the other two that I thought were genuine turns out to be a model train wheel and a truck mirror.

I'm still holding out hope that in my lifetime - I'll finally get to see the real deal.

Why?

When we review the UFO status, we call it phenomena. We know by self evaluation that the information is artificial and we already are advised that artificial is caused by scientific cause and effects.

We are also advised that the UFO condition was studied in the manifestation situation, the victims reviewed, medical cases given evidence. Cooling of the atmosphere from ice melting, oxygen released. Therefore there was no reason for life to get re-attacked unless the attacked was reviewed and then transmitted in a fake study/experiment.

We know that the creation of nuclear fuel is an artificial state, we know that nuclear orbitals holding the fusion together is changed to gain the artificial resourcing.

We also know that those who studied the artificial state believe that they are the Creators of a new artificial state, for they have reasoned that they are the Creators of the artificial state. So we know that occult scientists believe by organization, past information involving the pyramids and literature, that they believe that the Alien is the Creator of life on Earth. This is why they wanted to convince us all that we are really aliens.

They already advise us that they believe they can now resource a new artificial condition......so where is the re of the source that they want to attack, convert, and then create? It is in out of space where the UFO bodies were thought to come from.

So they studied the UFO and realized that most of the signals belong to Earth and the atmospheric body interacting in conversion of Earth's nuclear dust.

Yet they still want to create artificial.

So they are stating that they want an out of space UFO to visit Earth, so that they can resource it. So they believe that their new machine is a replication of the out of space design/plan of the UFO to model of a collider and will gain a cold fusion state of plasma. So they are telling us all that as yet they do not have all of the data for an Earth plasma cell....yet Earth is stone.

The nuclear fuel power plant was based on the model of the stone pyramid/temples and the fake/artificial above ground nuclear explosion. The collisions given to the mind fed back advice is gained from the nuclear power plant reaction, not out of space. Earth does not have collisions in its natural environment, and when an ancient collision was caused by atmospheric suck up of nuclear dust was when ancient life was attacked.

The out of space UFO comes from the Sun, and its metal is not in Earth's metal fusion and nor is it in the out of space plasma cells. This is why the Sun is attacking the planets and the GEL/plasma state of the colder bodies....they are all releasing their own fusion. The only reason why Earth has not yet been incinerated by the Sun cooled UFO manifestation is due to the Planets still remaining in a colder gaseous body than Earth stone.

We never received the UFO's from the planets.

Therefore the scientists who are using Earth metal in their designed collider machines to force collisions, witness the machine getting hot, for it is being attacked by the Sun metal UFO artificial manifestation.

We do not want an out of space METALLIC UFO body to come to Earth or else we will be incinerated like the ancients were.....for stone melted in ancient civilization providing the evidence that the Sun attacked Earth.

You cannot resource plasma from out of space. The scientists who have a product uranium can re - source the uranium, convert it and get a lower state in the transformation.....they cannot re - source plasma they only destroy it....due to the Sun being hotter due to its own ancient conversion into metals. The ancient sun that exploded supported a crystalline fusion in origin creation, cooled to plasma and Earth was converted into a lower state.

 

[Trajanus]

...but you see that all these abductions are necessary events for the alien scientists who perform radical surgery, create hybrid babies, leave implants, speak telepathically, show people star systems on pull down charts, fly in tanks, use pulley systems for doors, need water from the locals in jugs and cook pancakes,

I've heard of only one case like the latter; showing people star systems is rare or possibly unique to the Hill case. And while some alien activities could represent genuine research, many could be deceptive.

It is something that exists primarily in the minds of witness memory with hardly any true hardcore verifiable cases, despite many people's fervent belief in Ted Phillips.

The phenomenon couldn't be just "inside our heads." There are also radar sightings.

Because of its bizarre capacities and non-sensical behaviours of both the craft and its occupants it appears to be something that we just don't have words for (Jerome Clark).

Deceptive, to help stay "in the background" for now.

We still do not have a single verifiable image of an alien craft (Jaques Vallee) and yet we still want to say it's aliens from space in flying saucers;

Well, in the bulk of cases, it definitely LOOKS like nonhuman beings in technological craft. That's the overwhelming general impression.

It suggest to me something far stranger than the ETH is taking place so starting from that point is not really going to help evaluate cases or move the discussion forward. How can you evaluate an event if you start from the place of aliens from space?

I don't think people assumed since the start it was ET. The idea may have problems--no doubt the intent of the phenomenon itself. I submit, though, if there was a better alternative hypothesis, taking into account all the data, it would've replaced the ETH long ago.[/quote]

 

[Trajanus]

I'm still holding out hope that in my lifetime - I'll finally get to see the real deal.

With an attitude like yours, there will never be any such thing. As soon as someone finds a prosaic object that bears a resemblance--and it doesn't have to be perfect at all--to any photographed UFO, the "real deal" goes out the window. If Coyne had photographed the UFO that affected his chopper, and someone had found any object that looked like what he had snapped...so much for the Coyne case. No doubt it worked wonders for his credibility that he did NOT photograph anything. If he had he'd be put on the same level as Adamski and Meier, lol.

 

[Randall]

OK but in the same light we have allowed our selves for thousands of years to be defined by an external stimulus from voices and images in the sky that we converted into religions. In each of these spaces we give our power away freely and surrender ourselves to a higher and controlling power. I think if UFO's were trying to control us they would have given us dogma by now like in the Abrahamic religions or they would have asserted themselves in more oblique ways.

There are those who say that the alien presence is the same presence that has been interpreted as being gods in the past, and in the light of how we in modern civilization know primitive cultures react to comparatively high-technology ( e.g. cargo cults ), this is an entirely reasonable assumption, and those of us who are non-religious can look at that situation from a relatively objective point of view.

Given their surreptitious nature i see no control at work, nor do i see observation.

If you've never seen a UFO ( alien craft ) then you "see no observation" ( of your own ). However that doesn't make it reasonable to assume nobody else has observed UFOs or that what others have seen doesn't suggest some sort of control mechanism is at work. One of the better books that examines this situation from a historical point of view is The Gods of Eden by William Bramley.

What i do see is humans taking many witness stories and manufacturing a very familiar story line to use to explain Fortean phenomena as something systematic, defined by a outside power. None of that has been proven yet ...

We've already been through the concept of proof. Just because something hasn't been proven to you doesn't mean it hasn't been proven to others, and just because others consider it proven to their satisfaction doesn't necessarily make their belief unreasonable. This doesn't mean your viewpoint is necessarily unreasonable, but it might mean that it could be. Therefore it's wise to consider the value of the opposing points before making assumptions or drawing conclusions.

... so i see all this ETH bible talk to be a very limiting approach to a very unique historical phenomenon. Why must we try to insist that the stories witnesses tell is the gospel truth when biology and neurology tell us otherwise?

I don't think "we insist" anything is the "gospel truth" here. Asking why is a sort of loaded question.

I think that the Alien Abduction phenomenon is a really important place to start deconstructing the narrative that witnesses tell. Because if you actually believe there is a logic to not just the many tons of soil samples collected, or the kazillions of mutilated cattle, but you see that all these abductions are necessary events for the alien scientists who perform radical surgery, create hybrid babies, leave implants, speak telepathically, show people star systems on pull down charts, fly in tanks, use pulley systems for doors, need water from the locals in jugs and cook pancakes, probe us and have sex with us -- well then there's not much to talk about after that. Once you subscribe to dogma where can you go? I prefer Vallee's notion that we need to stop bringing ideology to the table and that means that witness stories are not gospel truth but a guide to help us understand how human beings respond to anomalous experiences.

Again, I think we can leave the suggestion that we all think witness reports represent the "gospel truth" out of the discussion. I don't know anyone who thinks that way, and it seems that the suggestion is a cheap attempt to devalue witness experiences. Personally, I won't do that. In fact, I dedicate my efforts in ufology to the witnesses. I think of them as others who have shared something in common with me that is very significant. I like to think of them as a sort of extended family even though I'll never know most of them.

1/3 of the neurological system is devoted to sight. And yet still our biological capacity for perception is rather limited, but it's just what we need to survive and thrive (Donald Hoffman). Our experience of reality is a virtual one inside our heads and so everything perceived externally is symbolic and not veridical. So then, how can we being to speak confidently about something that hangs out at the far edges of human perceptual capacity as the UFO is? It is something that exists primarily in the minds of witness memory with hardly any true hardcore verifiable cases, despite many people's fervent belief in Ted Phillips. Because of its bizarre capacities and non-sensical behaviours of both the craft and its occupants it appears to be something that we just don't have words for (Jerome Clark).

Where you devalue human perception, others consider it to be quite amazing. We have a full color 3D stereo sound VR analogy to the real world going on inside our heads that science has yet to fully explain. The human ability to recognize and track moving objects visually under widely ranging light dynamics is still amazing and beyond the capability of any system I know of. You might want to consider that before devaluing it in an attempt to remove weight from the evidence given by witnesses.

We still do not have a single verifiable image of an alien craft (Jaques Vallee) and yet we still want to say it's aliens from space in flying saucers; because the narrative is a simple one and is useful to connect the dots once we shave away all the high strangeness and irrational reports. It suggest to me something far stranger than the ETH is taking place so starting from that point is not really going to help evaluate cases or move the discussion forward. How can you evaluate an event if you start from the place of aliens from space?

It's not so much that "we want" aliens to be from space or that we've started with an assumption that aliens are from space, it's that after careful consideration and investigation of the various possibilities, it's reasonable to beleive alien craft have been observed on or near Earth, and given the various options for an explanation, the Interstellar Hypothesis seems to be the most reasonable.

 

[marduk]

Is that the sound of a mic hitting the stage?

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Why?

When we review the UFO status, we call it phenomena. We know by self evaluation that the information is artificial and we already are advised that artificial is caused by scientific cause and effects.

We are also advised that the UFO condition was studied in the manifestation situation, the victims reviewed, medical cases given evidence. Cooling of the atmosphere from ice melting, oxygen released. Therefore there was no reason for life to get re-attacked unless the attacked was reviewed and then transmitted in a fake study/experiment.

We know that the creation of nuclear fuel is an artificial state, we know that nuclear orbitals holding the fusion together is changed to gain the artificial resourcing.

We also know that those who studied the artificial state believe that they are the Creators of a new artificial state, for they have reasoned that they are the Creators of the artificial state. So we know that occult scientists believe by organization, past information involving the pyramids and literature, that they believe that the Alien is the Creator of life on Earth. This is why they wanted to convince us all that we are really aliens.

They already advise us that they believe they can now resource a new artificial condition......so where is the re of the source that they want to attack, convert, and then create? It is in out of space where the UFO bodies were thought to come from.

So they studied the UFO and realized that most of the signals belong to Earth and the atmospheric body interacting in conversion of Earth's nuclear dust.

Yet they still want to create artificial.

So they are stating that they want an out of space UFO to visit Earth, so that they can resource it. So they believe that their new machine is a replication of the out of space design/plan of the UFO to model of a collider and will gain a cold fusion state of plasma. So they are telling us all that as yet they do not have all of the data for an Earth plasma cell....yet Earth is stone.

The nuclear fuel power plant was based on the model of the stone pyramid/temples and the fake/artificial above ground nuclear explosion. The collisions given to the mind fed back advice is gained from the nuclear power plant reaction, not out of space. Earth does not have collisions in its natural environment, and when an ancient collision was caused by atmospheric suck up of nuclear dust was when ancient life was attacked.

The out of space UFO comes from the Sun, and its metal is not in Earth's metal fusion and nor is it in the out of space plasma cells. This is why the Sun is attacking the planets and the GEL/plasma state of the colder bodies....they are all releasing their own fusion. The only reason why Earth has not yet been incinerated by the Sun cooled UFO manifestation is due to the Planets still remaining in a colder gaseous body than Earth stone.

We never received the UFO's from the planets.

Therefore the scientists who are using Earth metal in their designed collider machines to force collisions, witness the machine getting hot, for it is being attacked by the Sun metal UFO artificial manifestation.

We do not want an out of space METALLIC UFO body to come to Earth or else we will be incinerated like the ancients were.....for stone melted in ancient civilization providing the evidence that the Sun attacked Earth.

You cannot resource plasma from out of space. The scientists who have a product uranium can re - source the uranium, convert it and get a lower state in the transformation.....they cannot re - source plasma they only destroy it....due to the Sun being hotter due to its own ancient conversion into metals. The ancient sun that exploded supported a crystalline fusion in origin creation, cooled to plasma and Earth was converted into a lower state.

Not to sound rude or anything, but I rarely read past the first two sentences of your posts. To me, it's mostly sci fi/new age jibberish - which I'm not interested in.

And it was quite the response to what I said, which in a nutshell was "I hope I get to see a real flying saucer on film or video before I die."

 

[Creepy Green Light]

With an attitude like yours, there will never be any such thing. As soon as someone finds a prosaic object that bears a resemblance--and it doesn't have to be perfect at all--to any photographed UFO, the "real deal" goes out the window. If Coyne had photographed the UFO that affected his chopper, and someone had found any object that looked like what he had snapped...so much for the Coyne case. No doubt it worked wonders for his credibility that he did NOT photograph anything. If he had he'd be put on the same level as Adamski and Meier, lol.

With an attitude like yours, there will never be any such thing. As soon as someone finds a prosaic object that bears a resemblance--and it doesn't have to be perfect at all--to any photographed UFO, the "real deal" goes out the window. If Coyne had photographed the UFO that affected his chopper, and someone had found any object that looked like what he had snapped...so much for the Coyne case. No doubt it worked wonders for his credibility that he did NOT photograph anything. If he had he'd be put on the same level as Adamski and Meier, lol.

Congratulations. You are 100% inaccurate regarding my thought making/decision making process. It's one thing if an object sorta-kinda looks like something else, but it's completely different when the object is a spot on duplicate. If you CANNOT see these objects for what they are, then you definitely ate your extraterrestrial pancakes for breakfast this morning. And if you cannot see these objects for what they are, especially after I posted two side by sides (Heflin and Trent), then I nor anybody else can help you.

And I get it. Nobody wants to learn of a case that they not only thought was real, but one that they boasted about (to show the skeptics that UFO's are real), turned out to be a fraud. I've been there. In my teens I thought Meier was legit. I was one of the kids that was taken by Wendelle Stevens "we ran these photos through the computer - the computer says they are all legit.....blah blah". And I continue to get let down when I learn more about Betty & Barney Hill, Rex Heflin, Paul Trent & Trindade.

I'd love to see your response if this scenario unfolded; Someone finds a time capsule sealed & buried in some concrete at the Trent residence. They open it and in there is letter from Paul stating that he hoaxed everybody and it was simply a truck mirror hanging on the telephone wire. I'm pretty certain your response would be similar to that of Ben Moss & Ray Stanford; you'd just slither away quietly out of sheer embarrassment. Either that, or you'd go on to say how it was a setup designed purposely by our govt to discredit Trent.

 

[victimized]

Not to sound rude or anything, but I rarely read past the first two sentences of your posts. To me, it's mostly sci fi/new age jibberish - which I'm not interested in.

And it was quite the response to what I said, which in a nutshell was "I hope I get to see a real flying saucer on film or video before I die."

The occultist scientists who caused the phenomena are the occultist scientists who studied the phenomena and are the occultist scientists who posed an artificial/fake theory about gaining the manifestation as a new form of atmospheric resourcing.

The operative on the forums interact the attacks with the human mind, question the human recipients and you state that I am discussing sci-fi.....when I am discussing human life. You however are discussing sci-fi for you have no reasonable answers yourself.

The current applied technology, the gain of a plasma or cold fusion reaction is based on the studies of the UFO.

The ancients knew about UFO's, they discussed the conditions of the phenomena in literature, they posed data for prophetic detailing that it involved irradiation attacks from the Sun. All due to changes to the atmospheric body which they then stated was Holy.

They called nuclear dust, holy because they knew it was a support of life on Earth.
They called the atmospheric body Heaven, because they knew that it supported life and life continuance.

They also stated factual data about being attacked spiritually. The atmospheric body was discussed as being spirit because its gases are ethereal as the description of the body. They knew that evil manifestations came from changes to the atmospheric body and called it fall out by loss of VEIL...into EVIL.

The only reason the UFO is continually being discussed is due to 2 reasons. 1 is that human and animal life and now Earth stone fusion is being attacked....2 is that the scientists who are applying the experimental studies do not know what data to apply to the condition, so they are asking the world community for advice.

When you study the plasma cell in out of space, they have "holes" in them. Is it any wonder that Earth stone now has round holes in its body?

The occultist scientist proposes theories that stone can de-manifest, re-manifest as a plasma body for new resourcing...yet it is stone. Therefore if stone is not allowed to be stone then by observation it is no longer stone...instead it is a hole.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

The occultist scientists who caused the phenomena are the occultist scientists who studied the phenomena and are the occultist scientists who posed an artificial/fake theory about gaining the manifestation as a new form of atmospheric resourcing.

The operative on the forums interact the attacks with the human mind, question the human recipients and you state that I am discussing sci-fi.....when I am discussing human life. You however are discussing sci-fi for you have no reasonable answers yourself.

The current applied technology, the gain of a plasma or cold fusion reaction is based on the studies of the UFO.

The ancients knew about UFO's, they discussed the conditions of the phenomena in literature, they posed data for prophetic detailing that it involved irradiation attacks from the Sun. All due to changes to the atmospheric body which they then stated was Holy.

They called nuclear dust, holy because they knew it was a support of life on Earth.
They called the atmospheric body Heaven, because they knew that it supported life and life continuance.

They also stated factual data about being attacked spiritually. The atmospheric body was discussed as being spirit because its gases are ethereal as the description of the body. They knew that evil manifestations came from changes to the atmospheric body and called it fall out by loss of VEIL...into EVIL.

The only reason the UFO is continually being discussed is due to 2 reasons. 1 is that human and animal life and now Earth stone fusion is being attacked....2 is that the scientists who are applying the experimental studies do not know what data to apply to the condition, so they are asking the world community for advice.

When you study the plasma cell in out of space, they have "holes" in them. Is it any wonder that Earth stone now has round holes in its body?

The occultist scientist proposes theories that stone can de-manifest, re-manifest as a plasma body for new resourcing...yet it is stone. Therefore if stone is not allowed to be stone then by observation it is no longer stone...instead it is a hole.

Exactly. Thank you.

 

[Burnt State]

If you've never seen a UFO ( alien craft ) then you "see no observation" ( of your own ). However that doesn't make it reasonable to assume nobody else has observed UFOs or that what others have seen doesn't suggest some sort of control mechanism is at work.....
Again, I think we can leave the suggestion that we all think witness reports represent the "gospel truth" out of the discussion. I don't know anyone who thinks that way, and it seems that the suggestion is a cheap attempt to devalue witness experiences. Personally, I won't do that. In fact, I dedicate my efforts in ufology to the witnesses. I think of them as others who have shared something in common with me that is very significant. I like to think of them as a sort of extended family even though I'll never know most of them.....
Where you devalue human perception, others consider it to be quite amazing. We have a full color 3D stereo sound VR analogy to the real world going on inside our heads that science has yet to fully explain. The human ability to recognize and track moving objects visually under widely ranging light dynamics is still amazing and beyond the capability of any system I know of. You might want to consider that before devaluing it in an attempt to remove weight from the evidence given by witnesses.

well i've seen a pair of UFO's, classic saucers as you know, and i certainly felt like we were under observation at the time. but i can't really tell you that the image that was in my head, that looked exactly like ET was coming down for a brief winter visit to northern ontario before zapping back up to the stars, was in fact ET. i'm a classic witness in the way you refer to the witness, but the more i've investigated the act of seeing and how the brain processes anomalous information, the less i'm able to verify for anyone that what i think i saw was exactly what was there. but if you take my case purely based on the information that i've provided it fulfills the basic ETH premise and in fact pretty much verifies it. however, i know that the virtual 3D event in my head was constructed for me by my neurons and my sociological history, giving me the best possible rendition of what my brain thought was up in the sky.

so i'm not devaluing all witnesses, otherwise i wouldn't bother wasting time talking about it if i thought there was nothing to this whole UFO thing, or that it exists only inside our heads. there is obviously some kind of external stimulus present that produces the many strange and common results that it does. i also have a soft spot for the witness and especially for the abductee claimant. these people have gone through something extraordinary and in some cases it was highly traumatic. however, i'm not prepared to make the leap that because of what their brains constructed for them it must be ET. i would argue that what the witness cohort presents is that it certainly appears that way, though there are an enormous amount of stories that point in much stranger directions, and if we are not going to recognize that the human being is involved in a co-creative event, between the stimulus and their biology and history then we are leaving out an enormous part of the equation.

what's even worse is we are making assumptions that the UFO is a saucer from outer space when in fact there is a specific process taking place: something strange in is the sky, or underwater, and the human being witnesses this and their brain does the best they can to create an image in their minds to match what is being seen. but what is being seen is anomalous, defies physics, and defies a lot of normal everyday processes that other common objects on this planet simply do not do. and i'm not trying to shuffle it all off into the psycho-social realm or as merely a figment of the imagination. what i'm suggesting is that we've been blindsided by an obvious choice for our era and it's wrong think imho. in an other era people saw horseless carts driving away from strange egg shaped objects that landed in a field (Chris Aubeck) but it wasn't a flying saucer or futuristic landcruiser, it was a horseless cart to that witness.

to the individual doing the seeing their time and place matters immensely because their brain is processing the event according to their time and place. the further back in time the more likely you are to see dragons descending from the sky or chariots on fire. i'm not saying to remove weight from the witness, but if anything spend a lot more time with the witness to understand their own history and their connection to their time and place to better understand what might be extraneous constructions of an acculturated mind and see what might be leftover - the anomalous stimulus.

It's not so much that "we want" aliens to be from space or that we've started with an assumption that aliens are from space, it's that after careful consideration and investigation of the various possibilities, it's reasonable to beleive alien craft have been observed on or near Earth, and given the various options for an explanation, the Interstellar Hypothesis seems to be the most reasonable.

and i would call that the mythology that we have made and nothing more. it looks like aliens from space so, therefore, aliens from space. sure it seems totally reasonable if you're not going to bother to recognize that there is a specific process at work in the act of perceiving or believe that culture plays no role in shaping the really strange things people sometimes see. from a historical perspective you can say all anomalous things seen are part of a control mechanism (Jaques Vallee) but then you'd be involving yourself in the many myths of our eras from chariots, to dragons to gods to ET descending from the sky, who are busy changing it up to suit the times. i say that the times shapes what we see, and what's really there is probably something else entirely. the reason why we can't see it clearly and why we see it differently across cultural eras is because it's something truly beyond our limited perceptual capacities. we are looking at the symbols of things from different times and not the thing itself.

we obviously can't rightly see the thing itself, and perhaps we never will, so instead of chasing down ET and believing that radar & ground traces confirms anything except more anomalous data, or possibly a technology beyond our own capacities, we might do better to investigate the process of seeing anomalous stimuli first and the how's and why's of what different witnesses see. lumping it all together into the reasonable notion that it's ET is missing a big part of the picture. so yes be kind to the witness and do not shun them or discount them, but work better to understand them, their biology and their history. the real clues lie there, no just in the story they tell. that's just a picture that their brain made in their mind.

 

[Trajanus]

You are 100% inaccurate regarding my thought making/decision making process. It's one thing if an object sorta-kinda looks like something else, but it's completely different when the object is a spot on duplicate.

As I've pointed out before, the truck mirror you showed is NOT an exact duplicate of the Trent UFO! I AM accurate regarding your thought/decision making process. ANY similarity between a known object and a photographed UFO suffices to sink the latter. The similarity doesn't have to be precise at all. Had Coyne photographed the UFO that buzzed him, somebody would find SOMETHING resembling it sufficiently to "prove" a hoax. If ANY evidence favoring the skeptical position is adequate to "disprove" a case, then you might as well write off the whole phenomenon as bogus.

I'd love to see your response if this scenario unfolded; Someone finds a time capsule sealed & buried in some concrete at the Trent residence. They open it and in there is letter from Paul stating that he hoaxed everybody and it was simply a truck mirror hanging on the telephone wire. I'm pretty certain your response would be similar to that of Ben Moss & Ray Stanford; you'd just slither away quietly out of sheer embarrassment. Either that, or you'd go on to say how it was a setup designed purposely by our govt to discredit Trent.

Both Trent and his wife went to their deaths maintaining the authenticity of what they had photographed. Never once, to my knowledge, did anyone claim Trent, or Heflin, quietly told them "I faked those pictures and the suckers fell for it, ha!!" The Trents were characterized as "simple minded" even "mentally challenged." And people like perpetrated a hoax capable of fooling experts for decades??! As for Heflin, after taking his pictures he assumed the object was some kind of device from the nearby Marine base--an odd thing for a hoaxer to say and, considering the shape of the object, suggesting unawareness of the phenomenon.

 

[Trajanus]

It's not so much that "we want" aliens to be from space

In fact the idea still seems to terrify many people. Some seem desperate to find some prosaic explanation, ANYTHING but ET, for certain unsolved cases.

or that we've started with an assumption that aliens are from space, it's that after careful consideration and investigation of the various possibilities, it's reasonable to beleive alien craft have been observed on or near Earth, and given the various options for an explanation, the Interstellar Hypothesis seems to be the most reasonable.

Of course.