A world without religion...

[Capnkumquat]

To get back to religion,I think morality wich is innate in human being is sufficient to replace any belief and religion.

If we are only a mere cosmic dance of naturally occurring atoms, how could we possibly discover a universal morality out of the meaningless random background noise of the universe?

As I stated earlier, just look at the societies constructed by Stalin and Mao. They deposed God, recognized no religion and claimed to have higher moral standards than the decadent west. In the name of that morality they brutalized hundreds of millions, killed tens of millions, and sought world domination so they could bring you into their "higher moral philosophy".

 

[louis belanger]

thank you for coming back to the thead.My question was ,can morality replace religion?Morality is hard wire n human brain.But what groopies are thinking is modifying that morality.

 

[louis belanger]

please,don't mix up politic and religion. both are corrupted,while morality is natural.

 

[nikki630]

If we are only a mere cosmic dance of naturally occurring atoms, how could we possibly discover a universal morality out of the meaningless random background noise of the universe?

Here is the short form. I don't want to get murdered. You don't want to get murdered. It is bad to get murdered. Let's make a rule, no one is allowed to murder anyone else. I have stuff I don't want stolen. You have stuff you don't want stolen. It is bad to steal stuff. Lets make a rule no one is allowed to steal other peoples stuff. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

As I stated earlier, just look at the societies constructed by Stalin and Mao. They deposed God, recognized no religion and claimed to have higher moral standards than the decadent west. In the name of that morality they brutalized hundreds of millions, killed tens of millions, and sought world domination so they could bring you into their "higher moral philosophy".

I am surprised that you are making this argument. I am sure I don't have to point out the brutality and atrocities performed in the name of religion and god. Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, 9/11, Salem Witch trials, Hitler* killing the Jews -- and just about anyone else he didn't like, and *G.W Bush saying that god told him to invade Iraq, the list goes on and on, all these were likewise done to bring people to their "higher moral ground". More recently we see a sect in Texas where men in their 50's marrying and impregnating 13 year old girls. Ted Haggard -- meth addict, Jerry Fallwell went to prostitutes. A disproportionate number of people in prison profess a belief in a god*. Certainly having religion does not make you any more or less moral than not having religion.

So if having religion and a belief in god does not make you any more or less moral, then what is the point ?


*This from Hitler's Mein Kampf “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”


* roughly 8-16% of the population identify as atheist or non religious, yet only .21% of prison inmates identify as atheists. http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Percentage_of_atheists#Atheists_In_Prison)

*George Bush believes god told him to invade Iraq - http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1007-03.htm

 

[CapnG]

Here is the short form. I don't want to get murdered. You don't want to get murdered. It is bad to get murdered. Let's make a rule, no one is allowed to murder anyone else. I have stuff I don't want stolen. You have stuff you don't want stolen. It is bad to steal stuff. Lets make a rule no one is allowed to steal other peoples stuff. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Yup. Basic morailty is actually just common sense. 7 of the 10 commandments are things we'd probably do anyway without a mandate from on high...

I am surprised that you are making this argument. I am sure I don't have to point out the brutality and atrocities performed in the name of religion and god.

The bottom line here is that humans will use any excuse to try and whitewash savagery. It's a truely universal human trait... unfortunately...

 

[Aaron LeClair]

please,don't mix up politic and religion. both are corrupted,while morality is natural.

I prefer ethics Morality reminds me of some sort of absolute or intrinsic right and wrong which I do not think exist. Ethics is understanding that morality is relative and differs from person to person, context to context, yet deciding to abide by certain rules themselves, without being righteous toward others. Er, nevermind, hard to explain.

 

[louis belanger]

you are right ,ethic or ethos is the right therm since the greek philosophers 4000 years ago.

 

[Capnkumquat]

Ethics is fine...except in my last class in ethics (a long time ago) there was not ONE single ethical theory presented that didn't have its own internal LOGICAL PROBLEMS, alternate ethical theory detractors, or people who would try to exploit others ethics for their own gain...not one. This was acknowledged by the professor and left me wondering what I was really learning. (6000 years of thinking and nothing...bupkis...nada...zilch.)

The perfect ethical theory should work like a mathematical formula. You come to a situation, you plug in your choices and out comes your answer as to what is the RIGHT/MOST BENEFICIAL thing to do. As far as I know, such a thing does not exist.

I found it interesting that the professor thought that Kant (one of the wordiest, most difficult, most convoluted ethical theorists out there) had gotten closest to a workable ethical system. Professor...professor...how can you have a system that is considered nearly perfect and yet cannot be explained to most of humanity?

...She never did like me, that professor.

 

[louis belanger]

Ethic must be a perpetual motion.When you stop talking about it ,it becomes stagnant.Then religion take over with dogmas ,faith,beliefs whitout evidence and myths.A simplest mathematical formula could be:A is good ,B is bad, a normal person would choose A, a pervert would choose B

 

[nikki630]

Ethics is fine...except in my last class in ethics (a long time ago) there was not ONE single ethical theory presented that didn't have its own internal LOGICAL PROBLEMS,

And religion and the bible don't have their own internal logic problems ??

 

[louis belanger]

I think underdog is an abstractor of quintessence

 

[Capnkumquat]

Ethics is fine...except in my last class in ethics (a long time ago) there was not ONE single ethical theory presented that didn't have its own internal LOGICAL PROBLEMS,

And religion and the bible don't have their own internal logic problems ??

So you want to trade an illogical system for another illogical system? Is that progress?

 

[CapnG]

So you want to trade an illogical system for another illogical system? Is that progress?

If one is less illogical than the other, no matter by how narrow a margin, yes.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I skipped that class and went for a smoke Underdog.

 

[exo_doc]

I'm probably asking for it, but I am a veteran that owns quite a few guns, and they are definantly weapons. I have them for personal protection of my family and my person, and for the very unlikely, yet still possible fall of civilization. I never talk to anyone about it because it freaks people out, but there it is. And by the weay, a gun doesn't make me feel empowered. I hate violence, with a passion. I've seen too much of it to get a thrill from it, mostly makes me ill.
Back to religion....I am a Pagan, usually a closet Pagan because of the area I live in is not freindly to non-Christians. I feel that there is something out there, but that each person has to find their own connection to it, and you can't get it from a book or some bellowing huckster of fear. This is only my opinion, but I try to be reasonable and rational about it. There are over 6 billion people on the planet, and there should be over 6 billion religions. No one is any more right than anyone else.
The main problem with some religions is that they are too susceptible to power hungry mindless idiots. And they seem to have been started from thier inception to be that way.
To live and let live,...why is that such a hard thing for some people to do?

 

[Aaron LeClair]

There are over 6 billion people on the planet, and there should be over 6 billion religions.

If that ever becomes a reality, can I borrow your gun so i can blow my head off? Thanks.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Besides a couple of holidays, I have finally found something that I need to partially thank the religious for.

1uwOL4rB-go

And actually I'm being nice. This guy is no Carlin, Rock, Chappelle, Hicks, or Murphy. But I thought I'd be nice. I was slightly amused by it.... at times.. Um, now that I think of it though, if there wasn't religion I could be watching porn on NBC right now, which would be better than a dorky guy wif his hand up a puppet's butt making light of the biggest asshats on the planet. Hmm..... Ok, I'm still searching for something to applaud by the religious.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

And of course.

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Sorry, never gets old to me.

Yes, I reason there's a God, but it doesn't give a shit in the ways religion would have you think. What do I base this on? Reason and NDE reports. Not great, but the best I've found so far.

I don't think Joe Pescie (No I'm not lookin up the spelling) is a good actor. Just cuz I post somethin doesn't mean I agree with it 100 percent.

 

[CapnG]

Yes, I reason there's a God, but it doesn't give a shit in the ways religion would have you think. What do I base this on? Reason and NDE reports. Not great, but the best I've found so far.

Deism, baby! Because humanity's just not that important...

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Yes, I reason there's a God, but it doesn't give a shit in the ways religion would have you think. What do I base this on? Reason and NDE reports. Not great, but the best I've found so far.

Deism, baby! Because humanity's just not that important...

I think everything is impotent. I mean important. Xcept for everyone that disagrees with me. Hmm, think I'll go start a religion now.

Usually, if it has a name, I don't fit in. Best I can do is say I'm spiritual. And then point out, that I know of many atheist who are more spiritual than the religious. Then I watch them scratch their heads etc. Their church doesn't make them deep... but the opposite. Then again, this is satan speaking. I listened to Ozzy lots in life. Too bad he was invited to the White House wif Bush. Which those idiots voted for. HAhahahahah. The end of the world will not be soon. You people are screwing yourselfs more so than I could ever think of. Yes, Satan has bad grammar.