Alien Abductions, Child Sexual Abuse & Sleep Paralysis

[Heidi Lemmer]

This is also from that site....sounds like an abuduction....."I am now 57 but when I was between 12-14, I had what I have always considered a nightmare…until hearing other stories. The dream started with me walking with a tall grey toward a table with equipment all around it, like a dentist but with unrecognizable machines. I was walking but was not controlling myself. I got on the table and the grey threw a sheet of saran wrap looking stuff, but it was much more rubbery feeling. The material sucked down over my whole body and I was paralized. I remember it being over my mouth but I was not aware of gasping for air like I would in real life. The tall grey had been beside me as I was walking and was now beside the table. It picked up an instrument attached to a mechanical arm (like a dentist drill is) and was about to insert it into my mouth. I was trying to scream out the name of Jesus but could not at first. I called to Jesus for help and finally got my lips to move as I croaked out his name with much difficulty. Immediately, the experience ended and I woke up in my bed the next day not very shaken, I just thought it was a nightmare. I remember as I was walking to the table with the grey, the smell was horrible, like sulphur and something rotting. The grey was very unconcerned the whole time but I knew it was evil. There was another one in the room who ignored us but was working at another table.

When I heard other stories, they were eerily similar. I still don[t think my body left my bedroom. As a small child, about 4 years old, I had out of body experiences until, while I was out of my body, something evil which I never saw, was coming after me...I could feel It. It only happened three or four times but after that experience, I was never able to do it again. While it lasted though, I looked forward to going to bed so I could fly. This experience was the first and only time I left the house. We lived in Vicksburg, ms and I flew across the MS river before I got scared. I remember the river and the city below me. I would always see myself on the bed when I came back, then fall backwards into my body and wake up.

You can use the abduction story, but the out of body thing would forment cracks about what kind of drugs I had done to which I would have to say "I was 4 years old dumbass!".
I appreciate your work and can't wait for our Lord to come soon!"

 

[Burnt State]

Heidi, ignore all that christian propaganda tripe - that's all irrelevant to my point. However, that people people think that the Nephillim are descending from the skies to rape and breed with humans to create a hybrid race, along with the other bizarre phenomenon of Christian pastors convincing their parishioners that their children are the victims of Ritual Satanic Abuse is what needs to be looked at. What real difference is there between the cult like figure who convinces people, through hypnosis and prolonged sessions of brain draining interrogation who is pursuing aliens or satan? I say that these parallel experiences tell us that what is more likely is that vulnerable people, traumatized people, or simply people who like to spin interesting tales or have some unique tenuous holds on reality are spinning the tale for the cult leader/interpreter of reality. In this way Doug Riggs and David Jacobs are similar intermediaries who are in fact spouting the doctrine of equally impossible experiences. If you find the christian interpretations bizarre, imagine what they think of the alien explanations.

These reports are too similar and too strange for us to ignore their parallels. Perhaps they are equally impossible and speak to something else altogether?

 

[Sue]

Soylent Green is . . . People!

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

Heidi, ignore all that christian propaganda tripe - that's all irrelevant to my point. However, that people people think that the Nephillim are descending from the skies to rape and breed with humans to create a hybrid race, along with the other bizarre phenomenon of Christian pastors convincing their parishioners that their children are the victims of Ritual Satanic Abuse is what needs to be looked at. What real difference is there between the cult like figure who convinces people, through hypnosis and prolonged sessions of brain draining interrogation who is pursuing aliens or satan? I say that these parallel experiences tell us that what is more likely is that vulnerable people, traumatized people, or simply people who like to spin interesting tales or have some unique tenuous holds on reality are spinning the tale for the cult leader/interpreter of reality. In this way Doug Riggs and David Jacobs are similar intermediaries who are in fact spouting the doctrine of equally impossible experiences. If you find the christian interpretations bizarre, imagine what they think of the alien explanations.

LoL, you couldn't have picked a worse site to use as an example.....but...yes...to the ritual/satanic abuse theirs tons of similarities going on. But....you can pick other forms of abuse, like prisoners of war, kidnappings. But that's not whats being reported. Schizophrenia encompasses all these traits. Why wouldn't we simply say their schizophrenic? We don't because we can treat this disease and get to the bottom of it. Through observation and treatment it becomes evident what's going on. Same with ritual/satanic abuse. Therapy has been able to uncover the core issues. But with abduction, often times after extensive therapy people are referred to hypnotherapy abduction specialists because therapy has been exhausted as a means of treatment.
I will say one thing, I'm a little confused on the power that hypnosis has been given here on the forum. As best as I can research , it's no more than a tool to relax the person and guide them to the painful memory it's felt has been suppressed. The person is , to my knowledge, has no power over the other to force them to say what their memories are. If I'm not mistaken, Hopkins often had other specialists in the room at the time of hypnosis, to witness the process. Since hynosis is considered helpful in other aspects like curbing an addiction why wouldn't it be helpful in allowing a person to relax and remember an event?

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

"What real difference is there between the cult like figure who convinces people, through hypnosis and prolonged sessions of brain draining interrogation who is pursuing aliens or satan?" Are we saying that all these researchers on alien abcution are interacting in brain draining interrogation?

 

[Burnt State]

I think that the reason why Americans thought their daycares were being taken over by Satanists in the 80's, and why people who have previously compromised personal experiences is that these people and children are easy to guide through hypnosis into any memory the therapist chooses. Keep in mind that while many ufo researchers claim to be "trained" in hypnosis, few are actual professionals in the field. The UFO researcher has his clients lie on their couches or speak to them intimately on the phone for many, many hours and following sessions it's nothing but suggestion after suggestion. Leading and guiding questions in these sessions are problematic. I think that we have very few cases on record where hypnosis actually provided a previously unknown accurate record. If events can not be recalled without going into a woozy mental state then how can any of those memories be trusted?

I have a serious problem with the fact that these two phenomenon have been excessively reported through the aid of hypnosis and that both RSA and AA seem to belong more to cultural concerns than having any basis in reality. If we know that all that ritual satanic abuse was confabulated then why should we think different about alien abduction.

We don't have schizophrenia under control or have any real treatment beyond heav duty medication to calm excited and delusional minds. We could also sedate the AA people too but the reason why trauma persists is because these people have compromised realities to begin with. I'm unaware of any really compelling cases that contain multiple witnesses and realities that can be corroborated. That being said, Barney Hill's hypnosis sessions are as scary as hell. Is this a nightmare being relived? What is it?

 

[Stagger Lee]

The "Andreasson(sp)" case, as presented by Fowler- as interesting as it may be- I was a bit taken back that Fowler had let the husband take over hypnotic regression. Fowler even starts off in one of his books, explaining himself and the special circustances for his decision. I wasn't able to further view the case(or book) or at least took with a grain of salt, the chapters I did read.

 

[Burnt State]

The Andreasson Affair is one that keeps coming up because of all the follow up documentation that is thorough and convincing. So, if we look at this case it actually has all those Christian overtones where Betty is being escorted through giant glass doors, one after another on her way to see the One.

Under hypnosis she will not reveal a description of the power and the majesty that is the One, whom she refers to as Father. She refuses to communicate what it said, but apparently it is a "greater love" that too many have rejected according to Betty. It's really a contactee event as now her daughter Becky on podcasts gives a breakdown of all the alien species and her many contacts with the lot of them:

Becky: There were several occasions when I was in alien crafts and yes I do recall. First there was soft lighting with no casting of shadow in all the crafts I've been in. I heard what sounded like glass wind chimes in the crafts. There were training stations, large screens, unusual toys, tall, glass-like cylinders, floating disks, rooms of mirrors, seats, tables,types of windows in some of the rooms, a large open canister that contained the same light that held me up in my bedroom, from that growling creature crouched in the corner of my room. There was also some of the symbolic symbols written above a door in one of the rooms. These are a few details of crafts I've been in.

My experiences are with a few different types of aliens; The Elders/Human looking, tall, white hair, blue eyes, very light white skin and dressed in white garments.

The Beings/Human looking, a bit shorter then the Elders, light blond hair, green eyes, white skin and dressed in white garments; these Beings, in my opinion, look like they could pass as human!

Ishta/Human looking, seemed tall to me, reddish-brown hair, brown eyes, white skin, dressed in a dark green garment and wore a mystical ring on her finger!

E sa/ Human looking, very tall, whitish-gray hair,olive-green skin, dressed all in white and when he spoke, it was in a singing form in the language of the symbols I was taught and I understood him! E sa wore a jeweled medallion necklace.

The Grays/short-around 3 to 4 1/2 feet tall, large, dark almond shape eyes, slit for mouth,indented-nose and ears, large head, no hair, grey skin.

Creature in the corner of my bedroom; dark murky brownish color, red eyes, growling!kind of looks like a chupacabra creature.

There are other beings I have encountered and paranormal experiences that I have had. These will be revealed on my web site in the near future!

So daughter's a full on, 100% Contactee, armed with her own website. I wonder if she's just aspiring to the same delusions that mom had about being a religious prophet? This overlay of religiosity, as with Ritual Satanic Abuse, should be the warning sign for people before any confirmations are made. Apparently another of Betty's kids claimed mom was off the deep end and made the whole thing up. The prophet for profit syndrome does seem to command an audience, as it plays to those looking for the light - pretty sad actually. But this theme repeats so often in so many circles that it needs to be given automatic scrutiny and doubt, like Greer and how that other guys' kids will one day turn on him and will start refusing to lift the alien cut out prop up to the window for his live alien recordings.

The perfect case? Well, perhaps not any more. In February 2007, Robert J Luca, Betty’s stepson, alleged that the lengthy and detailed experiences related by his parents were a hoax. Robert alleges his stepmother is a religious nut, obsessed with the belief she is a modern-day prophet, and that his father, Robert A Luca, has manipulated the abduction scenario to make money out of books and artwork. Trouble in paradise!The Andreasson affair | UFO Files | Strange Days | Fortean Times UK

 

[Jeff Davis]

The "Andreasson(sp)" case, as presented by Fowler- as interesting as it may be- I was a bit taken back that Fowler had let the husband take over hypnotic regression. Fowler even starts off in one of his books, explaining himself and the special circustances for his decision. I wasn't able to further view the case(or book) or at least took with a grain of salt, the chapters I did read.

I agree. The whole Fowler thing turned into pure entertainment. I will admit that while reading the series of books 15-20 years ago, I devoured it ravenously due to it being so entertaining. So in all reality, it started as entertainment as well. What does this state about my relative propensity to be entertained? What it states is that I chose when and where to apply the entertainment label despite being entertained from day one. That's a slippery slope. I don't take the Ray/Betty thing too seriously anymore.

 

[Burnt State]

Given that the votes greatly favour sleep paralysis, though the Moon voted for all the options (but then moons go through various phases, so that's quite understandable), I thought the Sleep Paralysis part of the thread title should get some reading space.

It's a topic that's been brought up before on the forum with many of us relaying our experiences associated with them. For me sleep paralysis creates total immobilization and utter terror - you have no control or power and crazy dreams and realistic sensations occur.

My favourite is the one where I'm 19 and in the cheap, smoky basement bar on the wrong side of town where I used to work at, but everyone in there were four-five foot tall rodents dressed in strange, human like clothes, smoking and drinking like rejects from some deranged Beatrix Potter story. Suddenly a bunch of women armed with machine guns dressed in black with balaclavas abduct me out of the bar. I'm thrown into the back of a white nondescript van, out of the frying pan into the fire. They tell me they are going to kill me and I can have a last cigarette.

I am smoking in the van when suddenly I wake up in my bedroom, with my arm hanging over the bed. Impossibly there is a lit cigarette in my hand. It's somehow come out of the dream and into reality! My mind seizes and then I am screaming and screaming and am flying at an accelerated rate through the hall always threatening to crash into my parents's bedroom door but never quite make it. And so it goes - quite terrifying stuff and the images stick with you for days, weeks, months, and as it turns out - decades. I can see it all clearly still, especially a drunk Squirrel Nutkin shooting pool, with a smoke between his rodent teeth. It was as surreal a scene as Goya could ever paint.

I can see how out of the realm of sleep paralysis many an alien abduction story is given birth to. Your body is asleep but the mind is on and reality turns into a surrealist nightmare. The experiences are literally out of this world. Frequently, as you are somehow powerlssly locked into your body, you have the sensation of strangers entering your room. The adrenelaine feels like its racing through the body just mind blowingly laced with pure fear. It's trippy stuff that rattles around in your brain for quite some time, long after the event is over.

 

[Jeff Davis]

There is a book that I really want to read. It's First Sight | ESP and Parapsychology in Everyday Life

I honestly think that this man's research and findings my subtly open the door to a plethora of natural psychic facilitation. So much of what we witness "paranormally" is us attempting to make sense of what we yet understand about ourselves and our place in nature. His book is supposed to be a look at how the mind incorporates these esoteric facilities into a subconscious purposeful and adaptive context.

 

[dmanister]

"It is startling to realize that some of our most cherished memories may never have happened — or may have happened to someone else. I suspect that many of my enthusiasms and impulses, which seem entirely my own, have arisen from others’ suggestions, which have powerfully influenced me, consciously or unconsciously, and then been forgotten." ...Dr Oliver Sacks

Neurologist Oliver Sacks on Memory, Plagiarism, and the Necessary Forgettings of Creativity | Brain Pickings

 

[Wade]

That was worth a click. I found not just one but two articles that i have a deep interest in

" Rosalind Cartwright reminded us in her fascinating treatise on the science of dream"

"...[In] good sleepers, the mind is continuously active, reviewing experience from yesterday, sorting which new information is relevant and important to save due to its emotional saliency.,."

"...Sleep is a busy time, interweaving streams of thought with emotional values attached, as they fit or challenge the organizational structure that represents our identity. One function of all this action, I believe, is to regulate disturbing emotion in order to keep it from disrupting our sleep and subsequent waking functioning..."

 

[Soupie]

Great thread/discussion.

I'm intriqued by the long history of abduction/nighttime encounters with the Other as well—whether it be faery folk, daemons, Machine Elves, or aliens (or should I say, alaens). The fact is, it's been happening for the seeming entirity of human history.

There is either an objective, external Other which has interacted with our species from time immemorial; experiences of interacting with the Other are subjective, internal, and serve our survival in some unclear manner; or both.

When I was in high school, I experienced sleep paralysis on at least one occasion. I didn't have any experience of the Other, but it was terrifying nonetheless. I was lying on my stomach with my head turned toward the interior of my bedroom. I was fully conscious, but could not move a muscle for the life of me. Although I was deeply religious at the time, I do not recall attributing a supernatural cause to the experience. However, I did put a bible under my pillow following the event.

There have been a few other times when I've been in the liminal state between sleep and waking, and experienced some slight paralysis. I recall struggling mightly to move my body, and after a few seconds having success. However, as noted above, the one time I was unable to move my body for (what seemed like) several minutes.

 

[Wade]

Great thread/discussion.

I'm intriqued by the long history of abduction/nighttime encounters with the Other as well—whether it be faery folk, daemons, Machine Elves, or aliens (or should I say, alaens). The fact is, it's been happening for the seeming entirity of human history.

There is either an objective, external Other which has interacted with our species from time immemorial; experiences of interacting with the Other are subjective, internal, and serve our survival in some unclear manner; or both.

When I was in high school, I experienced sleep paralysis on at least one occasion. I didn't have any experience of the Other, but it was terrifying nonetheless. I was lying on my stomach with my head turned toward the interior of my bedroom. I was fully conscious, but could not move a muscle for the life of me. Although I was deeply religious at the time, I do not recall attributing a supernatural cause to the experience. However, I did put a bible under my pillow following the event.

There have been a few other times when I've been in the liminal state between sleep and waking, and experienced some slight paralysis. I recall struggling mightly to move my body, and after a few seconds having success. However, as noted above, the one time I was unable to move my body for (what seemed like) several minutes.

Did you see the documentary "The Nightmare" released a couple of months ago about this phenomena ? I did so with some trepidation as it was an affliction I overcame a number of years ago now. so it is all in the past, but I was afraid that if I saw this it would somehow trigger something unconsciously and i would be suffering through it again. I am happy to report this was not to be the case.

I remember the night i conquered this like it happened yesterday but it was closer to 10 years ago and I can appreciate the folklore sentiment behind the thought you need to fight it off and if you do "it" will leave you alone.

 

[Soupie]

Did you see the documentary "The Nightmare" released a couple of months ago about this phenomena ? I did so with some trepidation as it was an affliction I overcame a number of years ago now. so it is all in the past, but I was afraid that if I saw this it would somehow trigger something unconsciously and i would be suffering through it again. I am happy to report this was not to be the case.

I remember the night i conquered this like it happened yesterday but it was closer to 10 years ago and I can appreciate the folklore sentiment behind the thought you need to fight it off and if you do "it" will leave you alone.

I haven't seen the documentary, no.

My (perhaps very incorrect) understanding is that during sleep, the motor cortex goes off line (perhaps to keep people from injuring themselves during sleep). However, sometimes after one has woken, the motor cortex stays off line, resulting in conscious experience of paralysis.

It's easy to see how hundreds of years ago, such a phenomenon would be given a supernatural/spiritual narrative—as almost everything was. Some intentional Other was surely to blame.

Even today, there are many, many people around the world experiencing sleep paralysis lacking the physiological knowledge to explain what has/is happened to them. They will create a narrative in accordance with their culture.

What's more, even with physiological knowledge, many people still attribute supernatural/paranormal causes to such experiences.

I'm glad you were apparently able to overcome your reoccurring SP experiences. They can be terrifying even in the absence of experience of the Other.

 

[Wade]

I'm a little bit embarrassed to admit to this but I was well in my 30s before I put an end to it and i was only later that i looked into it as a medical (?) condition. By happenstance I came across an article about it and thought "Hey, that was what I was going through all that time" i never really considered consulting anyone about it and never tried to put a face on it, I just "knew" someone/something was f***ing with my sleep, accepted it as part of my existence until one night it caught me when I was in a bad place emotionally and i got pissed off.

The funny thing in my cases was after these rude interruptions I never had any trouble dropping back off to sleep, it was usually immediate. I knew whoever was doing this wouldn't come back. at least that night.

 

[Wade]

I should say though this still happens to me but a lot less so and the fear part is gone. I now just keep relaxed and see where it takes me as I now experience the other things that are known to accompany this affliction. (Auditory hallucinations but not visual, I never recalled seeing anything, only felt their presence.)

 

[Soupie]

I should say though this still happens to me but a lot less so and the fear part is gone. I now just keep relaxed and see where it takes me as I now experience the other things that are known to accompany this affliction. (Auditory hallucinations but not visual, I never recalled seeing anything, only felt their presence.)

One of the reoccurring themes in accounts of interactions with the Others, is of them having evil/bad intentions. (I'm talking in general, not you in specific.)

I think "empathy" plays a large role in this phenomenon—that is, the experience of the other.

Barring the paranormal concept of the "empath," we do not directly experience the experience of others. (I'm sure there are many members here who would disagree with that statement.)

So, if we see a person hit their head on a cabinet door, when "we feel their pain," it's possible that some people do indeed feel pain, but it's not the pain of the person who hit their head, it's actually their own pain. And that's an extreme case. Mostly, we just intellectually know that the other person is in pain.

However, it extends way beyond that: we begin to empathize with animals, cartoon characters, and inanimate objects (in some cases). When I was a child, I distinctly remember empathizing/sympathizing with an illustration of a coat hanger hanging by itself in the dark, middle of nowhere in a dr Seuss book. (I think children are particular skillful at projecting feeling and intention out onto the world.)

But it's not just feeling that we project into the world, but intention as well; when something, anything moves, we "give" the movement purpose. Inanimate objects come to life if they seem to move with purpose. Again, children as old as 7 easily believe that puppets are "alive."

All this is to say that it is very easy for us humans to give life, feeling, and intention to shadows. We do it all the time. Anytime we empathize with anyone.

Yes, people really do have feelings and intentions... but we can't experience them directly. So, the same processes by which we "feel" and empathize with our fellow man, are the same processes by which we "experience" the presence of the Other in our rooms at night. We "know" they are there because we can feel them, sense them, know their evil intentions... just as we do all day long with our friends, family, and coworkers.

 

[Burnt State]

One of the reoccurring themes in accounts of interactions with the Others, is of them having evil/bad intentions. (I'm talking in general, not you in specific.)

I think "empathy" plays a large role in this phenomenon—that is, the experience of the other.

Barring the paranormal concept of the "empath," we do not directly experience the experience of others. (I'm sure there are many members here who would disagree with that statement.)

So, if we see a person hit their head on a cabinet door, when "we feel their pain," it's possible that some people do indeed feel pain, but it's not the pain of the person who hit their head, it's actually their own pain. And that's an extreme case. Mostly, we just intellectually know that the other person is in pain.

However, it extends way beyond that: we begin to empathize with animals, cartoon characters, and inanimate objects (in some cases). When I was a child, I distinctly remember empathizing/sympathizing with an illustration of a coat hanger hanging by itself in the dark, middle of nowhere in a dr Seuss book. (I think children are particular skillful at projecting feeling and intention out onto the world.)

But it's not just feeling that we project into the world, but intention as well; when something, anything moves, we "give" the movement purpose. Inanimate objects come to life if they seem to move with purpose. Again, children as old as 7 easily believe that puppets are "alive."

All this is to say that it is very easy for us humans to give life, feeling, and intention to shadows. We do it all the time. Anytime we empathize with anyone.

Yes, people really do have feelings and intentions... but we can't experience them directly. So, the same processes by which we "feel" and empathize with our fellow man, are the same processes by which we "experience" the presence of the Other in our rooms at night. We "know" they are there because we can feel them, sense them, know their evil intentions... just as we do all day long with our friends, family, and coworkers.

Experiences of the other in liminal states are highly profound experiences. Having lived through numerous bouts of sleep paralysis from my teens into my mid 20's along with a rather intense history of childhood nightmares, daymares, and the odd fever or dream induced hallucination, I know just how real and vivid these experiences are. I still have access to all these images and sequences going back to seven years of age. They all had a trauma of fear attached to them and none have been forgotten. In some I felt strangers coming into my room, in others I was abducted but not by aliens. However, their intentions were always nefarious and often violently threatening to my personhood.

The night my sleep paralysis ended was when I was 25 and the person next to me woke me up from my moaning and groaning where in the dream I was screaming like a madman. I have hardly felt as intense an experience since that rescue. I hugged her for a good five minutes or more and 23 years later she is still my partner, best friend and greatest love of my life. That feeling of being able to truly rely on someone has never left me, but that's more a testament to her character than the chance moment of pulling me out of my paralysis.

Still, I remember that moment very well too. I don't doubt that people create real life memories out of the dream world or that real life trauma can infect that dream world, creating new memories in turn. Trauma, hallucinations, dreams, memories and abductions are connected, swirling gyres of para-reality.