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Ammo Hoarding Sweeps US

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Except of course that you can't eat ammo. Also it's in total contradiction to things like logic. Anyone who thinks more guns and more ammo equals more saftey hasn't seen that recent shoot out in Ohio(?).

Racists can't accept that the President isn't white. Bottom line. You can make all the counter arguments you want, none of them hold water, it's a clear cut case of cause and effect (say that five times fast!).

Huh???? Racists???? Where in the hell did THAT come from? And you are not seriously claiming that a shootout somewhere means no one should have firearms are you? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I don't follow your logic at all. What arguments? What cause and effect?

Here's the deal. It's incredibly easy to call people 'racists' because it makes the accuser feel so good. After all, if someone is calling someone else 'racist' he can't possibly be racist himself! But it's a red herring argument which we see constantly. 'I don't like Obama's health care plan.' 'Oh, you must be a racist.' This makes no sense whatsoever. You're putting people into a position where they cannot criticize the administration AT ALL because if you are critical AT ALL, you're a 'racist' by definition.

That, sir, is bull shit.
 
What cause and effect?

Since Obama's election, guns and ammo sales have skyrocketed. You think that's a coincidence? You have much higher degree of faith in humanity than I do.

Here's the deal. It's incredibly easy to call people 'racists' because it makes the accuser feel so good. After all, if someone is calling someone else 'racist' he can't possibly be racist himself! But it's a red herring argument which we see constantly. 'I don't like Obama's health care plan.' 'Oh, you must be a racist.' This makes no sense whatsoever. You're putting people into a position where they cannot criticize the administration AT ALL because if you are critical AT ALL, you're a 'racist' by definition.

That, sir, is bull shit.

No, what's bullshit is dismissing actual, obvious racism when it's clearly on display for all to see by claiming people throw around the epithet "racist" without cause. Since Obama's election, hard core racism been on display in America like I've never seen (granted, I was born in 1975, so the civil rights movement is available to me only in newsreel form).

I'm not talking about people who disagree with Obama's policies. That's great! That's how a democratic republic SHOULD function. I'm talking about people who will gladly tell you to your face that Obama is "A muslim n*gger from Kenya" and is therefore an illegitamate president and if he doesn't change course soon THEY will do something about it.

You gonna tell me those people aren't racist? Are you fucking kidding me? Because they're coming out of the woodwork now in droves, like termites out of a rotten log. And surprise surprise, if they aren't the ones first in line at the gunshops, attending gun shows in record numbers to buy more with less hassle, etc etc.

But hey, you go ahead and tell me I'm full of it and that they're just Americans expressing their rights and not the least bit motivated by racism at all. Denial ain't just a river in egypt I guess.
 
Huh???? Racists???? Where in the hell did THAT come from? And you are not seriously claiming that a shootout somewhere means no one should have firearms are you? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I don't follow your logic at all. What arguments? What cause and effect?

Here's the deal. It's incredibly easy to call people 'racists' because it makes the accuser feel so good. After all, if someone is calling someone else 'racist' he can't possibly be racist himself! But it's a red herring argument which we see constantly. 'I don't like Obama's health care plan.' 'Oh, you must be a racist.' This makes no sense whatsoever. You're putting people into a position where they cannot criticize the administration AT ALL because if you are critical AT ALL, you're a 'racist' by definition.

That, sir, is bull shit.

LOL.. "Racist" this "Racist" that.. since when did that word become the new "Communist" ?? The media and public education system has instilled an autonomic reflex in people to obsess on that word and that subject whenever and wherever it's mentioned and in any context.

People need to stop running from that word since it's generally nothing more than a default way for people to throw bullshit into a debate and distract the accused from discussing the real topic.

Notice how the first thing that happens is that people stop arguing their points and instantly switch to defending themselves and explaining how they aren't racist. Works every time.

When someone tries to throw that shit at me I just smile and say "Fine so you think I'm racist.. anyway back to the debate at hand.." People are usually a bit surprised when you don't squeal in denial and they often try to quit the debate at that point since they hadn't planned on so little resistance to the accusation. Often the next step is for them to attempt to declare all your arguments as suddenly invalid, whatever they may be, since you didn't try to defend yourself as they had hoped.

I just assume going into a discussion that everyone has a bit of racist tendencies in them, just like they have a bit of good and evil and selfishness and altruism and everything else. What.. you don't think you have innate racist tendencies? Well then you are in denial that you are in fact a RACIST and I don't have to listen to anything else you say on any subject because all your arguments are now invalid because I said so :)
 
I'm talking about people who will gladly tell you to your face that Obama is "A muslim n*gger from Kenya" and is therefore an illegitamate president and if he doesn't change course soon THEY will do something about it.


LOL like that's any worse that people proclaiming Bush "A retarded Nazi murderer war criminal" Have you seen ANY of the protest posters from one of the countless anti-war/anti-Bush rallies throughout the past 8 years? Where was the concern against all the hatred "on display in America" then? Or does only "racist" hatred count in your book. Or perhaps THAT was justified hatred because it was in line with your own ideology as opposed to hatred against Obama and his ideology which you might happen to agree with?

Face it.. hate is hate and it comes from both sides of the extreme right and extreme left. To coin your phrase: Since BUSH's election, hard core HATRED has been on display in America like I've never seen..
 
I just assume going into a discussion that everyone has a bit of racist tendencies in them, just like they have a bit of good and evil and selfishness and altruism and everything else. What.. you don't think you have innate racist tendencies? Well then you are in denial that you are in fact a RACIST and I don't have to listen to anything else you say on any subject because all your arguments are now invalid because I said so :)

I would argue that humans are inherently prejudiced by nature but that racism represents something deeper and more sinister. Prejudice is reflexive but racism is a decision. I would certainly agree that the word is overused, people are getting quite lazy in their use of language.

LOL like that's any worse that people proclaiming Bush "A retarded Nazi murderer war criminal"

Well let's see: the man's clearly an idiot, his grandfather had dealings with the actual-and-not-figurative Nazis and he did start two wars, one with no plan and the other for no reason, so I'm not going say those criticisms are wholly invalid...

Have you seen ANY of the protest posters from one of the countless anti-war/anti-Bush rallies throughout the past 8 years? Where was the concern against all the hatred "on display in America" then? Or does only "racist" hatred count in your book. Or perhaps THAT was justified hatred because it was in line with your own ideology as opposed to hatred against Obama and his ideology which you might happen to agree with?

I freely admit to agreeing with the majority of Bush critics (although to be accurate, Cheney's the big fish, Bush is just the front man). But racism is more than just simple hatred, racism is as I said more sinister. If no one's ever explained it to you, here's why: racist comments and slogans directed towards Obama reflect back on blacks as a group. Got that? If you hate Obama because you think he's doing something bad, that's fine. If you hate it because Obama's the one doing it, that's a little irrational but still fine. If you hate it ONLY because the guy doing it is black, that's racist.

Face it.. hate is hate and it comes from both sides of the extreme right and extreme left. To coin your phrase: Since BUSH's election, hard core HATRED has been on display in America like I've never seen..

Hatred's been on display since humanity crawled out of the slime but that's not at issue. And I'm having trouble telling the extreme right from the mainstream nowadays, there seems to be an awful lot of cross-pollenation going on there. It's also funny how you guys are trying so very, VERY hard to muddy this up and sweep the whole racist thing aside as a non-issue. Very telling and somewhat disappointing.
 
Anyone for the 2nd Amendment = racist

That's right... be dismissive a serious issue by offering up a ridculous exaggeration. Don't offer any real discussion or take a serious look at the problem, wouldn't want you to strain yourself.

Anybody else want to get in on this sweep-it-under-the-rug action? I don't even know why I bother sometimes...
 
Total BULLSHIT, CapnG. I'm disappointed in you. You don't have any right to go around calling people racist under such flimsy evidence. Who made you judge and jury? It's this kind of simplistic thinking that lowers this argument into the gutter.

I am saying that by and large people against Obama's POLICIES are NOT RACIST AT ALL, PERIOD! That's a specious disengenuous argument. What they are worried about is an administration that is avowedly anti-gun to the core and will seek to outlaw legitimate legal firearm ownership. This is not about Obama. It's about the attorney general (white), the mayor of New York (white) and a cabal of leftists (largely white) who have no respect for the second amendment at all. They have stated their positions and their intentions.

This is also about a corrupt Chicago politician who seeks to move this country as far left as he can, with a corrupt congress willing to sell the entire country down the river for the sake of their favorite pork project. Not only does he bow to and kiss the world's dictators, he has the fate of western civilization in his hands. I have no doubt at all that the people in Obama's administration and ACORN (99% of whom are white) would readily approve of a totalitarian dictatorship in this country bent on taking away hard earned money from the so-called 'rich' (The top 1% pay 2/3rds of the taxes. The top 50% pay 97% of the taxes. 47% of Americans pay no taxes whatsoever.) and give it to people who haven't earned it for the sake of 'equality.' So yeah, I'm very worried about the direction this country is headed. I'm also heartened by the fact that I'm old enough that I won't have to live long in this shit hole the country is making of itself.

But that doesn't make me a racist and I highly resent anyone suggesting that is so. I hate and detest the ground that anyone stupid enough to utter such nonsense walks on and I spit with complete contempt and disgust in their general direction.

Now, back to the issue. 'A well regulated militia being essential to a free state, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.' Have you studied this at all? Have you tread the Federalist Papers? Have you read what people like Thomas Jefferson had to say about this? I once thought, liberal that I was, that 'well regulated militia' meant the National Guard.

I was wrong. 'Militia' means every able bodied man and 'well-regulated' means 'properly working and well trained' in the language of the times. A 'free state' means one not shackled by oppressive government.

the fact is that most all of these massacres hat get people so riled up happen in places where guns are prohibited: schools, malls, universities where there are 'no guns allowed.' People who obey the law leave their guns behind and have no way to protect themselves. the best way to prevent another Columbine is to arm the teachers. Cowards with illegal guns only shoot up places where there is no opposition.

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."
--Mahatma Gandhi

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall."
--Adolph Hitler

Every time, EVERY TIME a government has moved to regulate firearms ownership to the point of requiring registration, EVERY TIME that has led to confiscation. The German Firearms Control Act of 1937 is but one example.

Whaddya know? Another day and 80 million gun owners didn't kill a single person--again, but American automobile owners killed over 100 people.

Obviously, we should ban cars.
 
Racists can't accept that the President isn't white. Bottom line. You can make all the counter arguments you want, none of them hold water, it's a clear cut case of cause and effect (say that five times fast!).

You want serious replies after making that comment? For real?

NONE?
 
Total BULLSHIT, CapnG. I'm disappointed in you. You don't have any right to go around calling people racist under such flimsy evidence. Who made you judge and jury? It's this kind of simplistic thinking that lowers this argument into the gutter.

Flimsy? You want me to google up some blantantly racist signs from the recent tea party protests or from as far back as the election campaign? I could but you know, I'm not your butler. How many would you need though, a dozen? Two? 50? 100? It probably wouldn't be that hard. Nah...fringe stuff, right? Easily dismissed. No cause for concern there...

It should be noted that at no point in this thread did I once, EVER state that I thought you personally (or cotton or DDA or anybody else here) was a racist or that I considered them such. I do think it's a little disturbing that you're all being so glib about it if for no other reason that by not making the effort to distance yourselves more vocally, you're actually contributing to the delegitimizing of the defense of the 2nd amendement. These assholes are making you look bad, you need to call them out on it.

To be sure I'm definately not going to waste my time in yet another 2nd amendment discussion, I think the global crime statisics for any given nation's gun crime vs firearm availability speak for themselves.

I'll still share meat with you, regardless of your opinions.<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

That's very generous but I'll stick to the supermarket if that's okay with you...
 
I'm going to try one more time to state why the 'racism' argument is pure horse shit. It seems to be a reaction of desperate people who can't stand any criticism of this new administration's policies, so they deflect these criticisms by using an ad hominem argument avoiding the criticism altogether just to call someone a racist, a criticism of their character. This argument is logically invalid. (See Copi's Introduction to Logic for verification.) It does not count in debate. Below take the word 'Obama' to mean the 'Obama Administration' and the Democratically controlled Congress. This is composed of thousands of people, many from the far left who are hell bent on changing this country into an image of what they want to see.

Objection: "Obama's foreign policy is a disaster. He has kissed and bowed to dictators, and thrown Israel and Eastern Europe under the bus (which they well know)."

Answer: You're a racist.

Objection: "Obama's health care plan is ruinous to everyone. This will add thousands of dollars in both taxes and premiums to the average person's budget."

Answer: You're a racist.

Objection: "Obama has created a budget deficit that is more than all previous Presidents combined, from George Washington to Bush 2. He has 'monetized' this debt (printed money) which will result in runaway inflation down the road."

Answer: You're a racist.

Objection: "Obama's anti second amendment stance is unconstitutional, as has been affirmed by the recent Heller Decision. Making firearms more restrictive will result in registration, then confiscation."

Answer: You're a racist.

Objection: "Pelosi and Reid are the worst leaders in Congress we have ever had."

Answer: You're a racist.

Objection: "Obama's relationship with the corrupt Chicago political machine, including his close association with William Ayers, the Weatherman bomber and cop killer, went largely unreported by the MSM."

Answer: You're a racist.

Objection: "Why is Obama's academic record, his means to secure a Harvard education, his ability to travel to Pakistan during a time when that was prohibited (on which passport, please?) and his birth certificate (His actual birth certificate, not a certificate that a certificate exists) all considered 'off-limits' when it is demanded that the activities of every other candidate, along with those of their off-spring, be closely scrutinized?"

Answer: You're a racist.

Objection: "Why is there such feigned outrage over portraying Obama as 'The Joker' or an association with a Nazi swastika when critics of Bush did EXACTLY the same thing, but then it was considered 'free speech'?

Answer: You're a racist.

This kind of knee-jerk reaction is an emotional ploy designed to prevent real inquiry and debate based on facts. It is, in my opinion, insanely juvenile and beneath contempt. It reminds me of Creationists' responses to the objection that the world was not made by God in 4004 BC at 10:00 in the morning on October 23rd with 'Well, you don't have an open mind.'

It's also an easy and PC call. I suspect many people call others racists to justify to themselves that they are not. This idea that there are those of superior intellect able to detect racism in those who cannot recognize it in themselves is specious at best and betrays the accuser in rather the opposite light. In fact, to feel superior to another group is the basis of racism itself. People who accuse others of racism might want to take a good hard look in the mirror and examine their own motives for why they feel composed to accuse others of racism when they can't possibly know. I would put Jimmy Carter and Al Gore in this category as well. It may 'feel good' to relegate your fellow Man to an inferior status based on your own perceived superiority of being on the side of righteousness, but the fact is you are being laughably simplistic and moreover, you're not contributing substantively to the discussion. Thus, you personally can be safely ignored. The overall trend, however, is very frightening.

Now, this thread started as a reasonable discussion on 'ammo hoarding.' It has been hijacked. I object to that. If you look back at the discussion before it went awry, you will find:

1. This is old news. There's plenty of ammo available in most areas.
2. It is not so much hoarding as supply and demand.
3. Part of the issue is the credit crunch which has limited the ability of manufacturers and distributors to get loans to pay for getting product to market. Same thing happened to the housing market, but no one accuses others of hoarding houses.
4. Part of the issue was a lack of material, particularly brass.
5. Part of the issue is the military's need and precedence for ammo. They use .223. It's a NATO round.
6. Part of the issue is an avowedly anti-gun administration which will seek further controls on firearms based on how they look. A wooden stock and you're OK. A black gun and suddenly this is an 'assault weapon' though the innards are EXACTLY the same. It's this kind of insanity that 'promotes sales.'
7. .22 Long rifle, the most popular form of ammo, has never been in short supply, nor have any gauges of shotgun shells. They have all been readily available throughout this supposed shortage.
8. The supply issue has largely been resolved.

BTW, Obama is half white. I know because I dated his Mom's kid sister. :eek:
 
6. Part of the issue is an avowedly anti-gun administration which will seek further controls on firearms based on how they look. A wooden stock and you're OK. A black gun and suddenly this is an 'assault weapon' though the innards are EXACTLY the same. It's this kind of insanity that 'promotes sales.'
That's why I want to get one of these for my niece for her birthday.
She's a little Annie Oakley with a .22 Benjamin air-rifle, no joke.

GlamGuns.com! Guns for Girls and Glamorous Weaponry!
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That's very generous but I'll stick to the supermarket if that's okay with you...
Okee-dokey, here. I just prefer to gather my own or take livestock that has been raised under humane conditions. The stuff at the grocery store often has to die in a bad way at the end of a miserable life(I'll spare the details, but I have worked the line in a pork slaughter house). I can taste a difference.
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I don't blame people hoarding ammo. The way this administration is running things we could be facing a complete meltdown.
I believe the "Meltdown" is approaching it's apex.
Time to start thinking about what mold to pour that 'crucible-juice' into, ain't it soldier.
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Im curious CapnG why you think this is a race-related issue? Are people hoarding because of the president's racial profile?
Please clarify.

Cause and effect, as I said. The increased rate of purchase began as soon as Obama clenched the nomination. Now I'm sure a large percentage of that is no doubt simply because he's a democrat and 2nd ammendment supporters live in mortal fear of gun-grabbin' dems. But there's been enough blantant and overtly racist commentaries and signs made and displayed from that time to present at rallies and tea parties and so forth to indicate the presence of a very real, hard core racist element at work here. Denial of it is simply inexcusable.

And BTW Schuyler I am talking about actual racists here, not the faux racist knee-jerk response you mentioned. In point of fact, I agree with roughly half the objections you raised (although probably not for the same reasons you raised them). The others I just think you're either wrong or overreacting, strictly as a matter of opinion, race doesn't even come in to it. I must say though, this combined with the right-wing talking points sampler you posted earlier has been eye-opening to be sure.

I realize however that I must apologize to you all and shame myself because I have once again violated my oath to not participate in politically charged threads on this board. But before I unsubscribe from this thread and go flog myself, let me pose one more thought to you: If I'm wrong and the racist element is really a minor fringe element bearing no factor on these ammunition sales, then do me a favour and keep an eye on them. Because if I AM wrong then sales shouldn't be affected if the next President of the USA is white. Wait and see...
 
The increased rate of purchase began as soon as Obama clenched the nomination.
As I recall, based on personal memory, the big rush to "hoard" weapons and ammo started at some point during the "Honky" Clinton administration. The whole "Waco Thing" had a lot to do with that.
I will refrain from mentioning names or associations, but I will say...with some confidence, that trying to roll armed Feds over Texas would be ugly.
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