App State Professor says "Ufology Waste of Time"

[Jimi H.]

Nahh, I don't think he'd get in any kind of trouble for having a discussion about UFOs with his students. When his outset is that they are myth, how could that be a threat to the reputation of a university?
And fwiw, at many universities, a fair amount of eccentric behavior is not frowned upon at all. I sure had some proffs with odd interests, e.g. a proff in gothic/occult lit., the guy had all sorts of interests comparable to what is written about here in the spooky section.
If a proff acknowledged to a student that some strange UFO case was fascinating, how could that threaten the university in any way?

If he started talking about his fear of the reptilian overlords, sure, but that's not too realistic a scenario.

And if he had been 'muzzled', why would he write that opinion piece? He could just say nothing then.

 

[exo_doc]

I found this......
"The favored debunking theory in the mid-2000s was that it was a model railroad wheel suspended from a transparent fishing line. Unfortunately the flange of the wheel was not the correct angle or dimensions and nobody had shown any evidence of the actual presence of fishing line when I stopped reading. I stopped reading because, as so often is the case, honest investigators who may have had a bit of a bias where running headlong into colossal egos that already knew it all without investigating."
at....
The Rex Heflin Case (1965), Fact or Fiction

 

[Jimi H.]

Alright, the point still stands. Can you prove to your proff that Rex Heflin saw a flying craft of non-human origins? If not, what can he really do about it?

His job is to teach you the scientific method, that way you can do the UFO-analysis yourself on your own time on a sound and diciplined foundation. And that way you can communicate what you find to other scientists. If you really find proof, you will have an audience among scientists, fear not.

 

[Jeff Davis]

This is the first I've heard of this Jeff. More info please.

OK, I'll get on it and edit this post as soon as I have some info. I was extremely saddened to learn of it myself.

I found precisely where I had read about it: The UFO Iconoclast(s)

I would be most happy to have a revised understanding of this case. I want it to be real and had always cited the same photographic evidence myself.

 

[exo_doc]

Alright, the point still stands. Can you prove to your proff that Rex Heflin saw a flying craft of non-human origins? If not, what can he really do about it?

His job is to teach you the scientific method, that way you can do the UFO-analysis yourself on your own time on a sound and diciplined foundation. And that way you can communicate what you find to other scientists. If you really find proof, you will have an audience among scientists, fear not.

Professor aside, if I had proof this website would be moot. Is it your proposition that undeniable proof must exist BEFORE investigating something?

 

[exo_doc]

OK, I'll get on it and edit this post as soon as I have some info. I was extremely saddened to learn of it myself.

I found precisely where I had read about it: The UFO Iconoclast(s)

I would be most happy to have a revised understanding of this case. I want it to be real and had always cited the same photographic evidence myself.

I guess he just happened to catch a jet flying by and creating a smoke ring at that time?

"And even less "spectacular" is Heflin's fourth and less-shown photo. It is less-shown probably because it is simply a smoke ring, likely from an air show:

Heflin's "UFO" Smoke Ring Photo

Air Show Smoke Ring at Base
I find this fishy.....will look into it later.

 

[Polterwurst]

Not understanding 5 percent of sightings does not mean they are ET: It just means we don’t know what they were.

Read more here: There are cool things to see in the sky – but don’t waste your time on UFOs | CharlotteObserver.com​

No kidding. I totally needed an astronomy professor to explain that to me.

The nightscape is totally foreign turf to those with few clues as to what is out there.

Wow. No need to get more condescending. I know I am an ignorant microbe that can only hope to get enlightened by the gods of science.

The scapegoat of “new physics we don’t understand” is often employed to turn tricks of light into impossible maneuvers by extraterrestrial spacecraft (“appeal to ignorance”)

This quote had me baffled at first. Did someone use quantum physics to explain UFO manoeuvers to the professor? I thought it was still field propulsion and stuff?

But maybe he's referring to "mystery lights" or "orbs", not to nuts-and-bolts discs(?) I would think these little balls of light, which are by no means "tricks of light" in every case, will annoy astronomers from time to time. Anyone who spends a few nights looking at the stars will see them, so astronomers are probably ignoring them on a regular basis.
Maybe someone proposed a quantum physics solution to their right-angle turns, accelerations, joining, separating, zooming off etc. (although I don't see why, it's not that non-locality would explain any of that?) and that's what Prof. Caton is referring to.
And no, I don't think these "balls of light" are "extraterrestrial spacecraft". They might be "just" a natural phenomenon that's not yet been scientifically examined (probably because of the fear of being called a Ufologist).

There was a survey in 1977 where astronomers were asked about UFOs. Only 20% thought taking a closer look at UFOs was a waste of time, the rest though t they might be worth looking into. I guess that number would be a little bigger today, because of the ridicule factor and the ever-growing "UFO-mythology-and-entertainment industry" , but IMO, Prof. Caton is probably still not representing a majority here. Especially when it comes to speaking off the record, many astronomers will even admit to an interest in UFOs (at least I've been told it's the case with a few of them here in Germany).

Btw.: about that Rex Heflin character, the first thought when I saw that photo of him doing the "camera view sign" (I think that's what it is) with his hands was "well, if that ain't a trickster". He totally comes across as a possible hoaxer and he definitely had the experience and technology to make it look convincing.
And once they had his "UFO-picture" in the Encyclopedia Britannica, maybe he felt he had to stick with his story..?

 

[Jimi H.]

Professor aside, if I had proof this website would be moot. Is it your proposition that undeniable proof must exist BEFORE investigating something?

No, not if there's sufficient and good quality evidence to work with. In the case of the Heflin photos, many think they look like hubcaps. So, it is indeed evidence, but of what?

Could you actually explain to the proff why you think they look like ET craft? Do you know what an ET craft looks like? I've never seen one, have you?

To neutral parties, I think they look like hubcaps.

 

[Randall]

But why would a guy like him study anything where he can't get proper and reliable data?

Also, those Rex Hefflin photos always looked like a hub-cap to me, and a smoke ring needn't be anything out of the ordinary.

My point is not wether those Hefflin pics are anything out of the ordinary, my point is that to someone who hasn't been 'bitten' they necessarily must draw a laugh.

It's reasonable to laugh at the Hefflin photos.

Actually, I saw an episode on TV where some "UFO investigators" attempted to duplicate the Heflin photos with several objects including a hat they just chucked into the air, and I have to admit that they came out looking a lot like the Heflin photos. The smoke ring is just plain suspicious, especially since there's some kind of exhaust pipe nearby. I dunno how laughable the photos are though. For example I don't find them as laughable as the guy in the gorilla suit in the Patterson Bigfoot video .

 

[exo_doc]

No, not if there's sufficient and good quality evidence to work with. In the case of the Heflin photos, many think they look like hubcaps. So, it is indeed evidence, but of what?

Could you actually explain to the proff why you think they look like ET craft? Do you know what an ET craft looks like? I've never seen one, have you?
To neutral parties, I think they look like hubcaps.

Jimi, I am agnostic when it comes to UAP's. I have never pushed for the ET theory, nor any other really. I am just convinced there is SOMETHING up there worth investigating. So I wouldn't know what an ET craft looked like anyway

 

[DaveM]

Nahh, I don't think he'd get in any kind of trouble for having a discussion about UFOs with his students. When his outset is that they are myth, how could that be a threat to the reputation of a university?
And fwiw, at many universities, a fair amount of eccentric behavior is not frowned upon at all. I sure had some proffs with odd interests, e.g. a proff in gothic/occult lit., the guy had all sorts of interests comparable to what is written about here in the spooky section.
If a proff acknowledged to a student that some strange UFO case was fascinating, how could that threaten the university in any way?

If he started talking about his fear of the reptilian overlords, sure, but that's not too realistic a scenario.

And if he had been 'muzzled', why would he write that opinion piece? He could just say nothing then.

When the government controls grant money to universities, that makes for a powerful reason to keep your mouth shut. You should know that if you went to college. It is one thing to make negative comments on the UFO subject. Quite another to acknowledge that you are interested in those matters.

 

[Jimi H.]

.. I am just convinced there is SOMETHING up there worth investigating. ...

I like that answer, because anyone who believes (in the most non-religious sense of the word) that there is other life out there in the universe, only need to ask themselves: How far up (or away) do we have to go to meet it!

I must admit I don't really know where I stand on the ETH or IDH or whatever, either. There are a lot over-the-top fascinating stories, but also a seeming lack of good evidence, or available evidence! But those are fascinating topics, regardless. But that fascination constantly clashes with a more dry, physical view of the world

 

[Jimi H.]

When the government controls grant money to universities, that makes for a powerful reason to keep your mouth shut. You should know that if you went to college. ..

No, I didn't know that. Feel free to exemplify, what's your experience? Have you wanted to research UFOs at a university?

I would think it's about how you pitch it, and whether it's deemed scientifically valuable. (Or culturally, I'm sure there are numerous cultural studies papers written on the topic.)

I have read more than one scientific paper which obliquely stated interest in evidence that could point to ET. E.g. I remember reading a scientific paper on JSTOR, written by a PhD student (I think) who had his eyes on an object that returned to Earth orbit at long intervals. His advisor was intrigued, and encouraging, but suggested that he shouldn't oversell it, as he was likely to be disappointed by the object.. That's called not jumping to conclusions. It's been discussed on the webz.

What about the numerous astronomers who search for life, or at least the signs of life on distant worlds, every single day?

 

[Randall]

No, I didn't know that. Feel free to exemplify, what's your experience? Have you wanted to research UFOs at a university?

Excuse me for interjecting. I don't know what it's like today, but Sagan's story is relevant in that he was almost banished from the prestigious Cosmos club and was the target of elitist academics for his early interest in UFOs. But on the other hand, we had Hynek, who was a university professor and chairman of the Dearborn Observatory. With respect to the bureaucracy, I know that in more recent times John Mack ended up with a lawyer to advocate his position that abduction research should be taken seriously at his university. I guess it just depends on who's in charge and how open minded the big donors are.

 

[mike]

Its also been my experience that sometimes if we drill down , religious bias plays a part in the skeptic mindset.
God created the universe for man and in his own image, The bible makes no mention of ET's thus their existance would upset the applecart.

Ive had religious people state as fact ET cannot exist, since the bible clearly states god made man end of story.

DEFENSE CHEIF WARNS OF 'SATANIC UFOs'
by Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent
The Timesof London
A former head of the Armed Forces has helped to form a pressure group to warn of the satanic nature of many unidentified flying objects.
Admiral of the Fleet Lord Hill-Norton, Chief of Defence Staff, 1971-73, is involved with UFO Concern out of worry that some UFO encounters are "definitely antithetical to orthodox Christian belief", according to today's Church Times.
The Rev Paul Inglesby, a sub-deacon in an Orthodox church, who is secretary of UFO Concern, said the truth about UFOs has been suppressed for many years. He had never seen a UFO himself but knew many who had. "It is what they do and the messages that come from them that are anti-Christian, or demonic." A memo about the new group had been sent to the editors of various UFO magazines, and letters of support had been received by, among others, a professor and a prisoner he added.
Gordon Creighton, a Buddhist who edits Flying Saucer Review, said the group's founders were right to be concerned: "I do believe that the great bulk of these phenomena are what is called satanic."

UFOs Are Demons, Not Flying Saucers From Outer Space!

Demons in Alien's Clothing

 

[DaveM]

Per author Subrata Ghosroy the Defense Dept.(part of the Government the last time I checked) says, ' Every year, approximately the Pentagon provides $4 billion to support university research in the United States.' I am quite sure they don't want to waste their funding on UFO research. Mr. Hendrix, why would I want to research UFOs at a university? For one thing I am a little too old for that. As ufology stated, Dr. John Mack had to go up against a peer review board at Harvard because of his research on alien abductions. Luckily for Dr. Mack the issue was dropped . What do you base your assumption that 'at many universities, a fair amount of eccentric behavior is not frowned upon at all.'? Have you done research on the subject?

 

[Randall]

Its also been my experience that sometimes if we drill down , religious bias plays a part in the skeptic mindset.
God created the universe for man and in his own image, The bible makes no mention of ET's thus their existance would upset the applecart.
Ive had religious people state as fact ET cannot exist, since the bible clearly states god made man end of story.

Really good point. I think that the so-called Great Divide in ufology that happened back in the late 1940s was in part due to religious beliefs. Chief of Staff, General Hoyt S. Vandenberg, who rejected the Estimate of The Situation, was part of a religious family. Although he cited "lack of proof" as his reason for rejecting the Estimate, what possible proof could anyone give to a devout church goer whose church rejected UFOs?

 

[boomerang]

I should probably have done my homework before tossing out the Heflin video. Based on what I can tell from the photo analysis via exo_doc's link, the Heflin photos come off looking suspect. I'm not savvy or well informed enough myself to pass final judgment. Someone working with a like model Polaroid camera and same or simulated vantage point could probably lay the issue to rest one way or the other. Or has someone already? I do recall using the family Polaroid from about the same era and the one thing I recall in particular is the degree to which these photos deteriorate over time. Much more so than standard negative to copy pics.

At any rate--I will leave real photo analysis to the real experts. As for the original topic here--Anyone who has taken an array of college courses will recognize the kind of academic snobbery Jimi is references. Choose your profs carefully--if you can.

 

[mike]

Really good point. I think that the so-called Great Divide in ufology that happened back in the late 1940s was in part due to religious beliefs. Chief of Staff, General Hoyt S. Vandenberg, who rejected the Estimate of The Situation, was part of a religious family. Although he cited "lack of proof" as his reason for rejecting the Estimate, what possible proof could anyone give to a devout church goer whose church rejected UFOs?

Interesting it would be called project "sign"

There will be signs in the Sky in the end of this time period


UFO Strange Signs In The Sky - Learn what will happen during the great day of the Lord from the rapture into the tribulation period straight through the millenium in chronological order

The collins elite are another example of supposedly high level govt ppl who reject the ETH in favour of demons

Author and paranormal researcher, Nicholas Redfern joins us for a look into bizarre connections between a shadowy government military-intelligence group called the "Collins Elite", and the ET/UFO phenomena which they believe to be directly "demonic".

Using direct information supplied to Nick by former MUFON investigator and Anglican priest, Ray Boueche; in what can best be termed a vast right-wing religious conspiracy, the group upholds the US is threatened by an imminent Satanic threat, and the country should be locked down under martial law and the citizenry placed under strict Old Testament Law to thwart the "soul snatching" plans of the demonic horde.


Under the scenario outlined by the group, the American Constitution would be revoked and the nation placed under a type of Biblical Old Testament theocracy/surveillance state with closed borders and severe penalties for interacting with the "demons".

There is plenty of evidence to suggest this is a real issue and is interwoven even within Govt agencies.

And based on my own discussions with such people the rationale seems to be, The bible doesnt mention ET's just demons ergo they must be demons.
I dont doubt the existance of genuine ET species would put the final nail in the coffin of many of the worlds superstitions. I think they cant help but know this and thus feel threatened by it.

Its akin to a man on one continent knowing there is another over the sea, but hes never seen it or any of the animals on it.
Over time his imagination populates this place with sea monsters and unicorns
Until one day a person from this place comes and with genuine knowledge of it sets the record straight.

I think there is a very real potential for ET to do this in regards to our notions of the universe.

It will mean having to let go of the belief unicorns frolick in this land, something that may be impossible for some

And i cant help but wonder given the Profs generation and culture if this might be the root cause of his rejection of the UFO genre

 

[boomerang]

"It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so."

~Robert A. Heinlein