Arnold Sighting - Mistaken Identification????

[Constance]

Wasn't there another witness to the group of objects Arnold described flying over the mountains (a miner on the 'ground', at the same time of day)?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Still, it would only confirm something was seen, not necessarily all the fine details that Arnold observed from the air.

 

[Constance]

A comment by 'Larry' following a blog on the Arnold sighting at the ufo iconoclast site:

"It seems to me that if you want to use the delusion/hallucination explanation for UFO reports, you need to explain a few things, like: Why do witnesses who are aboriginals in the Australian outback or the Amazon basin have delusions/hallucinations with the same content as witnesses from Manhattan?

If the answer to that is that UFO’s draw on some universal structure built in to the mind, like Jungian archetypes, why did that archetype only start being activated in large numbers in 1947?

Why would such a universal propensity have evolved, in the first place? One would think that—rather than conferring some adaptive value--it would be maladaptive.

Why do people (like Arnold) go along for an entire lifetime functioning at a high level (and flying airplanes qualifies as that, if you’ll pardon the pun), have a 15 second interlude of delusion/hallucination, and then go back to being a normal, or above average individual?

Back when I was a Psych major, and would talk to Psychology researchers and clinicians about UFOs, I was somewhat amazed to find out that the idea that all UFO sightings could be explained as simply the result of psychosocial disorders was not a consensus position among Psychologists. Jung did not hold that position, for example. If there were a consensus, then you would think that that particular psychological disorder would have been conclusively identified in diagnostic handbooks, by now."

Makes sense to me.

The UFO Iconoclast(s): Damn you Kenneth Arnold!

 

[Constance]

New Mexico Area UFO Reports -- June/July 1947
Copyright 2002 by David Rudiak
Last updated on: April 11, 2014

"Below is an extensive compilation of UFO reports in New Mexico and surrounding areas for June/July 1947 gleaned primarily from a review of over two dozen New Mexico newspapers, two El Paso newspapers, about 20 Arizona newspapers, plus a few miscellaneous sources. Many new cases from Colorado have been added in 2007 from Ted Bloecher's massive nationwide review of the 1947 newspaper UFO reports.

See also companion Texas area UFO reports with more extensive coverage of Texas, plus Oklahoma and Arkansas.

The most sightings in this compilation were 20 on July 8, the same day as the Roswell base press release and Ramey's telegram and debunking. Other "hot" days were July 6 with 13 sightings, June 27 with 12, July 4 with 8, and June 29 and July 7 with 7 each. Altogether there are over 110 sightings, about 40 from June (or before) and about 70 from July. Of these, about 70 are directly from New Mexico or areas immediately adjacent (e.g., El Paso and SE Arizona). The concentration of sightings surrounding the immediate White Sands area was especially heavy, making up approximately 50% of all N.M. sightings even though this was only about 10% of the state by area. Over 90% occurred during the two week period between June 25 and July 10. A complete review of Texas and Colorado newspapers would probably turn up many more sightings from the immediate New Mexico area.

For graphical plots of these sightings click here.
Click here to go directly to report"

Rudiak's report is a long good read. Bloecher's nationwide review/catalogue of newstories concerning US ufo sightings in 1947, which Rudiak links to, is essential reading.

NM_UFO_Reports

 

[boomerang]

1947 was certainly a groundbreaking year. A comparable report today would leave hardly a ripple on the national scene.

Gene's point about the paucity of witnesses in the Arnold case is a good one. Looking at the totality of UFO events in '47 in a historical context makes for a good argument that the U.S. public was being mildly "Bennewitzed" for reasons of national defense or yet stranger reasons.

In describing "the greatest generation"--and my parents' generation really was extraordinary-- we may lose sight of psychological and societal effects carried over from the incomprehensible horrors of the WWII era. Factor in the Cold War. There was no shortage whatsoever of highly intelligent and capable operatives capable and willing to do things we have come to regard as way out of bounds. 1947 would seem to mark the beginnings of the relatively benign surveillance state in which we now live. A very interesting year.

 

[manxman]

Yes the authorities/security/intelligence agencies certainly bandwagoned the UFO hysteria back then, but never lose sight of the original wagon train, cos there is one.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

1947 was certainly a groundbreaking year. A comparable report today would leave hardly a ripple on the national scene.

Gene's point about the paucity of witnesses in the Arnold case is a good one. Looking at the totality of UFO events in '47 in a historical context makes for a good argument that the U.S. public was being mildly "Bennewitzed" for reasons of national defense or yet stranger reasons.

In describing "the greatest generation"--and my parents' generation really was extraordinary-- we may lose sight of psychological and societal effects carried over from the incomprehensible horrors of the WWII era. Factor in the Cold War. There was no shortage whatsoever of highly intelligent and capable operatives capable and willing to do things we have come to regard as way out of bounds. 1947 would seem to mark the beginnings of the relatively benign surveillance state in which we now live. A very interesting year.

Very true observation in as much as what made the papers could have been tainted to achieve a reaction, however, to what credibility do we give to the actual witness who reports these sightings. Taken as a whole, it's been estimated that 95% can be explained, or roughly this. But for that other group, can we dismiss or water down the sighting? Carrion is of that mind. You'd have to be willing to be "Bennewitzed" to be "Bennewitzed." Reading the case files starts changing that vague wondering quite a bit.

 

[Constance]

1947 was certainly a groundbreaking year. A comparable report today would leave hardly a ripple on the national scene.

Yes, one like Arnold's but standing alone. The difference is in the context in which Arnold's sighting took place, the immense wave reported in Rudiak's account of those first two weeks, drawn from Bloecher's research of sightings reported in local and national newspapers in the US over the rest of the year. There's another significant difference between that time period and our own -- the nearer visibility of anomalous aerial craft often flying at low altitudes during that first wave and in the succeeding waves here and elsewhere. Were we or any country to experience such ufo waves today, we wouldn't be having this conversation but a more interesting and better informed one.

Gene's point about the paucity of witnesses in the Arnold case is a good one. Looking at the totality of UFO events in '47 in a historical context makes for a good argument that the U.S. public was being mildly "Bennewitzed" for reasons of national defense or yet stranger reasons.

If so, the US PTB were very fast on their feet in mounting their ufo show -- within a month or two of the earliest ufo sightings in this country in 1947. How did they accomplish it? Where were all these various craft developed, manufactured, and housed? Who flew them? Have we heard from any of those pilots over the last 65 years? Why were these technologically advanced craft not used by the US military in the ensuing wars in which this country engaged beginning by 1950? And for what purpose was this elaborate project undertaken? Do we have any documentary evidence that it was mounted in the US? Did it extend (with or without diplomatic agreements) to all the other countries around the planet that also experienced pronounced ufo waves and, increasingly, interactions with landed ufos and their occupants? An immense physically engineered pretense, then, propagated globally for 65 years by US security agents and our air force? And no trace of evidence, here or anywhere, that someone knew about it, and possibly objected?

In describing "the greatest generation"--and my parents' generation really was extraordinary-- we may lose sight of psychological and societal effects carried over from the incomprehensible horrors of the WWII era. Factor in the Cold War. There was no shortage whatsoever of highly intelligent and capable operatives capable and willing to do things we have come to regard as way out of bounds.

No doubt. The question is how they were able to mount that elaborate planet-wide show for two-thirds of a century.

 

[boomerang]

If so, the US PTB were very fast on their feet in mounting their ufo show -- within a month or two of the earliest ufo sightings in this country in 1947. How did they accomplish it? Where were all these various craft developed, manufactured, and housed? Who flew them? Have we heard from any of those pilots over the last 65 years? Why were these technologically advanced craft not used by the US military in the ensuing wars in which this country engaged beginning by 1950? And for what purpose was this elaborate project undertaken? Do we have any documentary evidence that it was mounted in the US? Did it extend (with or without diplomatic agreements) to all the other countries around the planet that also experienced pronounced ufo waves and, increasingly, interactions with landed ufos and their occupants? An immense physically engineered pretense, then, propagated globally for 65 years by US security agents and our air force? And no trace of evidence, here or anywhere, that someone knew about it, and possibly objected?

No doubt. The question is how they were able to mount that elaborate planet-wide show for two-thirds of a century.

All pertinent questions that illustrate weaknesses in the breakaway civilization hypothesis. We seem always left with jigsaw puzzle pieces that almost, but not quite fit. I think your questions directly address this frustrating mismatch.

 

[Burnt State]

Wasn't there another witness to the group of objects Arnold described flying over the mountains (a miner on the 'ground', at the same time of day)?

Fred Johnson, a prospector with a compass and a telescope, witnessed a series of five to six discs that day from a ground location consistent wth Arnold's sighting. There were a couple of other newspaper reports that also confirmed the sighting but these, like Johnson's, all contain some significant discrepancies i.e. citing engine sounds and vapor trails. Johnson's report was an independent one which identified a compass flailing about wildly at the time of his sighting - a detail I find quite interesting as this will become a mainstay detail in future witness reports along with engines shutting off. Johnson's overall sighting is the most consistent with Arnold's and identifies details through his telescope that Arnold may not have seen i.e. an actual waving or shifting tail to the objects.

What is very peculiar in the Arnold report is the rate of speed, their weaving motion like a kite's tail, the number and shapes of the objects and how they negotiated the mountain's peak: all very significant features that are not really consistent with any advanced human technology that might be up in the sky at the time. We know Arnold did not lie, as not only is it not keeping with his character but is something that just caused problems for him more than anything else. His story appears genuine and seems to be the most public report of an incredible series of sightings that took place leading up to and following his event.

His further involvement in the Maury Island Affair though is extremely curious and demonstrates some serious manipulations at work, by both Palmer, and whoever else was keeping tabs on Arnold and his investigations.

 

[Sentry]

I don't think this has been posted here already- apologies if it has.
Isaac Koi posted this elesewhere:
"By the way, Martin Shough's paper on Kenneth Arnold is a great source of relevant material "
http://martinshough.com/aerialphen.../Arnold%20analysis2.pdf

169 pages, as I recall, with illustrations. Grab your beverage of choice and dig in!

 

[Gene Steinberg]

That document looks great. I've already read parts of it, and it rarely puts things together in a way where you see how the various interpretations of the Arnold case came about.

 

[fastwalker]

Arnold's narrative or some version of it has all too often been exploited, to the detriment of history and objectivity, as a mere didactic fable enlisted to serve conflicting ideological agendas.
Martin Shough

Bam, right away page 2 paragraph 3, hooked like a fish; I am in for the full count, lets see were this leads...

 

[Constance]

Burnt, thanks very much for nailing down all that information about the miner and other reported witnesses of the Arnold objects. I agree with what you say about Arnold.

 

[marduk]

That 'Jack' Frost was an interesting character and his Project Y does look a little more like the spade shaped craft Arnold initially described, but who tests a series of craft together in formation? This one didn't even get off the ground - just the mock-up was made.

Ok, ok, ok, the cat's out of the bag.

Between this and the avro aero car, yep, UFOs are all us Canucks.

We just use 'em to sneak your cheap beer across the border.

 

[Constance]

All pertinent questions that illustrate weaknesses in the breakaway civilization hypothesis. We seem always left with jigsaw puzzle pieces that almost, but not quite fit. I think your questions directly address this frustrating mismatch.

Meant to ask you who you're reading concerning the breakaway civilization hypothesis. I think Richard Dolan, in whose recent books I first read about this hypothesis, could be correct in his reasoning based on the secrecy of black projects managed by the military-industrial complex, but he has looked at it from the perspective of the last several decades rather than taking it back to 1947. Ah, but I just realized that we first heard the term 'military-industrial complex' from Dwight Eisenhower when he was leaving office. How much more did he know, or more likely foresee, than he said? Still, I find it impossible to believe the current hypothesis expressed by several posters and Paracast guests here that the worldwide ufo phenomena of the last 65 years have been an illusion manifested by US security agencies and the US air force. So who should I read to take that hypothesis seriously?

 

[Burnt State]

Ok, ok, ok, the cat's out of the bag.

Between this and the avro aero car, yep, UFOs are all us Canucks.

We just use 'em to sneak your cheap beer across the border.

You see, that's just how complicated this mystery is. I know for a fact that not one single Canuck would bother to exert a single iota of energy in procuring American Beer (flavourless, low percentage swill - that's not counting your craft beer, but let's face it, ours is significantly better) as we have many a fine brew here that keeps us enchanted. There's no need to use our breakaway, advanced tech to get the weak stuff when we have this here:

or this:

and these: Maudite (8%) & Fin Du Monde (9%)

 

[marduk]

You see, that's just how complicated this mystery is. I know for a fact that not one single Canuck would bother to exert a single iota of energy in procuring American Beer (flavourless, low percentage swill - that's not counting your craft beer, but let's face it, ours is significantly better) as we have many a fine brew here that keeps us enchanted. There's no need to use our breakaway, advanced tech to get the weak stuff when we have this here:

I'm a Trad guy myself, but you gotta get the girls loaded somehow.

And besides, with the Trudeu-o-tron zero point energy converter, the iotas we expend are free.

Except the marginally higher tax we pay on it of course.

 

[Burnt State]

oh, no you don't have to get the girls loaded - they will do their own thing i'm sure.

 

[fastwalker]

We know Arnold did not lie, as not only is it not keeping with his character but is something that just caused problems for him more than anything else. His story appears genuine and seems to be the most public report of an incredible series of sightings that took place leading up to and following his event.

After reading through the Martin Shough paper and listening to Arnold's radio interview in 1947 shortly after his sighting; I believe the story is genuine and his story stands the tests of time and speculation. I do not believe that this can be explained by a test flight of Horton's or anything else terrestrial.