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Astronaut says we're not alone

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the vast majority of species which have existed on this planet have left NO fossil record.

It's noteworthy that, sparse as the fossil record is for our ancestors a few million years ago, evidence has been found. Any intelligent nonhuman species, which was moderately successful should've left some traces. Even the early stages should have at least some documentation. The process of evolutionary ascent from reptiles to therapsids to mammals to primates to hominids took many hundreds of millions of years. Despite the fact that primates lived in environments hardly conducive to fossilization, we've found their ancestors since the Paleocene e.g. Purgatorius.
 
Oh I've studied some...

Trajanus, I should really take David's advice and just bail on this. You just got here, and already you've put yourself on a pedestal and are lecturing to the unwashed. Yet your lectures are out of the fifties full of assumptions that there actually ARE aliens, not to mention the rest of it. You seem totally unaware of the IDH, for example. The real question you should be asking yourself is, 'What am I bringing to the debate?' So far, nothing. We've been over and over the ground you are now claiming as your own. Only the naive are still there. Until you manage to establish your own credibility, get down off your fucking pedestal and attempt to learn something before you pontificate and make a fool of yourself.
 
I still don't think we're there. The original statement was something to the effect that 'most all' astronauts that walked on the Moon 'turned to religion.' All the evidence I see is that one did and one was already religious to begin with. Citing those two or three astronauts does not prove the original claim. It's not even close. Then we're told well, they had 'profound experiences' including the Russians, who never went to the Moon. Well, I can see that. I imagine floating up there would be a profound experience, but that does not equate to 'turning to religion.'

If you've read and/or seen 'The Right Stuff' by Tom Wolfe you'll know the astronauts--all of them--were placed in a pretty nasty position with regards to PR and the program. There's a scene at the first press conference for the 7 original astronauts where they are asked if they attend church. Gordo lies his ass off and claims he attends church regularly. They all were more or less forced to express religious faith because that's what the public wanted to hear. Not that some of them weren't religious, but these guys were mostly engineering graduates in the military and worked as test pilots--not your average emotionally religious person. But as the New American Heroes they were expected to express the core values of Americana.

Now, when these guys got back to earth, what did the press say? "Was your experience profound?" Really, listen to them and you see that they are being fed the answers. Given that the taxpayers just spent several billlion dollars to get you to the Moon and back for the experience of a lifetime, how could you NOT say your experience was profound? NASA is listening to every word you say and you'd better get it right. If you said, 'Yeah, it was cool, but the toilets in space are the pits so I'm gald to be home' you would never fly again. When Buzz Aldrin got back to earth all he wanted was to dump the regulation military underwear (which is truly terrible. I've worn it.) and get a pair of briefs from his wife. When James Lovell returned to earth he had been heard to say 'God damn it!' when everything on Apollo 13 was going to hell in a handbasket, and some minister made a big issue of it and NASA forced Lovell to publicly apologize for using foul language and taking God's name in vain. The movie kind of hints at this when he says, 'Are we on Vox?' but it doesn't go into detail of what the issue was about. This is the kind of pressure astronauts are under to express themselves properly and to pretend to be good Christians.

Now, in my opinion Mitchell's 'epiphany' is kind of lame. He says he suddenly realized that he was made of star stuff. Indeed, the molecules that make up our bodies were 'manufactured' inside stars. But this has been well known for decades. Carl Sagan spewed this stuff in 'Cosmos' and was equally 'amazed.' I don't think it is particularly amazing myself. You can get the same feeling of 'oneness with the universe' by dropping acid. Don't worry; it wears off. Mitchell had to have known this before he went up. he didn't 'suddenly realize,' he just remembered.

You know what the first astronaut prayer was? "Dear Lord, please don't let me fuck up." -- Alan Shepard on board the capsule on the launch pad.

Now I see where you're coming from. You're addressing Stillborns' comment about a religious reaction which impacted 2 astronauts.

I'm talking about processing the experience outside the religious framework, which Mitchell did. He felt the need to create a new framework while the others dealt with the experience differently. Most astronauts (if not all) gained a new perspective and were transformed by the experience at different levels.

Working at the Canadian Space agency for 5 years, I got an earful from Canadian astronauts during post-flight presentations about how the experience transformed them and how differently they view the world. I assume American astronauts are the same unless they're robots ?!?! :confused:
 
When it's all said and done, it's hard to imagine that anyone who had the opportunity to fly into space and see this planet from above, as well as get a clear, crisp view of the stars from outside of our atmosphere, would not be deeply affected at a spiritual level. I think of the time when I first truly saw the stars from the vantage point of being in the middle of nowhere, deep in the bowels of the Venezuelan countryside, old enough to appreciate what I was really seeing, jeez, it made me feel humble, small and more deeply connected to the Universe than ever before - or possibly since.

dB
 
OK, I can dig 'transformed.' But it reminds me of the 'Chop wood, carry water' issue (Didn't I put it up there somewhere? I forget. My apologies for repeating.) What do you do before enlightenment? Chop wood, carry water. What do you do after enlightenment? Chop wood, carry water. I just stacked a cord of wood this weekend. Now it hurts.

Many years ago I was around a guy (I worked with him and we had had issues) who suddenly proclaimed that God had talked to him after he prayed and everything was all better now. I thought at the time, well, you look pretty much like you did yesterday and in my view, you are still a flaming asshole. I see no difference. But, I have to admit, if HE says it was transformational, who am I to argue? But from MY perspective, I'm left saying: So? It's kind of like observing someone come to the sudden realization that their big toe nail is infected with a fungus! Wow!! And I'm saying, please, Lord, get me out of here.

OK. I admit. I'm closing in on 60 years old and I'm pretty well convinced that most everything is bull shit and I simply do not see a purpose here. I'm kinda tired, if you want to know the truth, and I just am having a hard time giving a shit about anything any more. There are going to be no more epiphanies, no more revelations, no more transformations, and no more enlightenment. I am quite completely comfortable, but I am to done.
 
Many years ago I was around a guy (I worked with him and we had had issues) who suddenly proclaimed that God had talked to him after he prayed and everything was all better now. I thought at the time, well, you look pretty much like you did yesterday and in my view, you are still a flaming asshole. I see no difference. But, I have to admit, if HE says it was transformational, who am I to argue?

IMHO, 'reading between the lines', he was telling you that his schizophrenia medication was working :D
 
...

OK. I admit. I'm closing in on 60 years old and I'm pretty well convinced that most everything is bull shit and I simply do not see a purpose here. I'm kinda tired, if you want to know the truth, and I just am having a hard time giving a shit about anything any more. There are going to be no more epiphanies, no more revelations, no more transformations, and no more enlightenment. I am quite completely comfortable, but I am to done.

yup. let the young ones worry about the issues, they are going further into the future, and they may have better ideas than we did. or not.

point being, we all have our time, some of us less, some more, but when it is time to let somebody else 'do', it is time to step back and live your life.

better stop before I start waxing philosophical again... one of those days and your post just stirred it up all over again ;)
 
your lectures are out of the fifties full of assumptions that there actually ARE aliens


You mean the idea has really falllen out of favor? Not to current top UFOlogists today, like Friedman or Randle.

You seem totally unaware of the IDH, for example.

I long ago heard of Vallee and the interdimensional idea and discussed it on this board, but it's not even scientific:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdimensional_hypothesis

As I said before, we know extrasolar planets exist in great numbers but so called other dimensions haven't to my knowledge even been verified.
 
As I said before, we know extrasolar planets exist in great numbers but so called other dimensions haven't to my knowledge even been verified.

Why do we bother providing a forum for people comfortable with making statements like this? I'm not sure, perhaps Gene & I are closet masochists or just chumps. This dork keeps posting this shit, and I can't really ban him/her/it, because they're just trying to engage in a conversation, but it reminds me of the time that I was visiting Florida while living in Caracas, and one of the old ladies in the clubhouse asked me if I would mind getting in touch with her daughter, who lived in Portugal, so she figured it would be a cheaper phone call from Caracas. When I tried to explain that her daughter was in EUROPE, she refused to accept what I was saying, and got rather upset at my ARROGANCE.

Sigh...

Yes, Trajanus, the aaa-lee-uns in the nots and bults shippees all come from Jupiter, and they're small because they eat too much fucking corn, like the Mexicans, and only corn and beets grow on Jupiter. And soda, it grows on soda bushes. You can't prove me wrong, so don't even try. My favorite is the raisin soda, which grows on elephants, Jupiterian Elephants. They're pink and purple, and they have intradimensional chicken sandwiches in their trunks.

No, pretty please with sugar on top, go somewhere else, like Abovetopsecret.com, they will love and appreciate you there, and you'll be amongst your peers. We're all stupid here, we believe in things that don't exist in your world, and we're not smart enough to ARRRGGGGHHHHHHH...
 
I see where Trajanus is coming from in saying that other dimensions are more of a theory than are exo-planets in other galaxies. But that doesnt go anywhere near justifying your incessant promotion of nuts n bolts and the ETH.

But Trajanus, to call the ID idea non scientific is like saying pregnancy has nothing to do with sex.
 
I see where Trajanus is coming from in saying that other dimensions are more of a theory than are exo-planets in other galaxies. But that doesnt go anywhere near justifying your incessant promotion of nuts n bolts and the ETH.

But Trajanus, to call the ID idea non scientific is like saying pregnancy has nothing to do with sex.


The link he posted states it isn't falsifiable, therefore isn't scientific. Think that's where he's coming from.

I personally don't care if someone concludes ets are here. Doesn't bother me.
 
The link he posted states it isn't falsifiable, therefore isn't scientific. Think that's where he's coming from.

I personally don't care if someone concludes ets are here. Doesn't bother me.

Same here, if 'they' were here, it wouldn't change my daily grind one bit.
 
Karyn Dolans latest episode of her podcast has Rich Dolan and Peter Robbins on it, and Rich talks a bit about talking to Mitchell at the X-Con about the famous Admiral Wilson(?) / Steven Greer / Dr Mitchell meeting where Greer told the Admiral that there is UFO SAP, the Admiral tried to get access to it, and was denied.

So if anyone is interested in that stuff the podcast is worth checking out. (he talks more about it than just what he has related in Paracast appearances)

Here 'tis:

http://media.podcastingmanager.com/64024-83474/Media/key042409.mp3

Thanks Gareth so much for this link. As I can remember correctly you have been also involved in our previous threads about Admiral Wilson episode in lenght - will have to recheck some of the older threads as there are some new details that Michell has mentioned in the X conference about Wilson briefing. I will post it later - have to catch up some free time.

Also for the first time Mitchell has mentioned that "admiral now denies the 'out of loop' aftermath of the meeting" (as a result of the Billy Cox article)...altough Wilson's name is still not mentioned.

Best Wishes

Giuliano
 
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