August 21, 2016 — Paul Davids

[mike]

Modern rediscovery
The modern search for the Mary Rose was initiated by the Southsea branch of the British Sub-Aqua Club in 1965 as part of a project to locate shipwrecks in the Solent. The project was under the leadership of historian, journalist and amateur diver Alexander McKee. Another group led by Lieutenant-Commander Alan Bax of the Royal Navy, sponsored by the Committee for Nautical Archaeology in London, also formed a search team. Initially the two teams had differing views on where to find the wreck, but eventually joined forces. In February 1966 a chart from 1841 was found that marked the positions of the Mary Rose and several other wrecks. The charted position coincided with a trench (one of the scour pits) that had already been located by McKee's team, and a definite location was finally established at a position 3 km (1.9 mi) south of the entrance to Portsmouth Harbour (50°46′0″N 1°06′0″W) in water with a depth of 11 m (36 feet) at low tide.[96] Diving on the site began in 1966 and a sonar scan by Harold Edgerton in 1967–68 revealed some type of buried feature. In 1970 a loose timber was located and on 5 May 1971, the first structural details of the buried hull were identified after they were partially uncovered by winter storms.

You'd think the "First person to re-discover the Mary Rose" would get a mention.....

You don't get a mention here either.

How I Found The Mary Rose - Submerged

So it seems the claim made on the valiant page that you were "the first person" to discover her is a lie isnt it ?

 

[Double Nought Spy]

I'd be very interested to hear what Jesus has to say about the Shroud. Surely he has an opinion.

 

[mike]

I'd prefer it if you did not hassle the relatives of former colleagues

Actually Alex jnr is very touchy about people stealing his fathers credit.

*** Good News! Please note - ***
I am pleased to say that things have changed; the information below is no longer accurate dad is now getting his share of the credit at the site. The original diving team are not yet, but it looks as though the intention of the people now running the operation is to set the record straight so I expect this will happen soon. A.M.
We expect to start interviewing the original diving team about their experiences later this year. If you have any burning questions you would like them asked about the project please e-mail them to me

My father, with the aid of his research team on Project Solent Ships re-discovered the Mary Rose, King Henry the VIII's flagship. This early part of the history of the Mary Rose's re-discovery in recent time, is usually omitted from the credits at official functions and scant recognition is given to Dad.

I'm sure he will be horrified to learn some 2 bit fraudulent medium is claiming he found the Rose.

 

[mike]

So the history books don't credit George as being as he puts it the"First person to re-discover the Mary Rose", and the only reference i can find that supports his claim, comes from him.

The 92-year-old, who now lives in Launceston, told the ’Post’ "if I hadn’t been with him, they never would have found it", but before now his version of events have not been made public.

They simply reported what he told them, clearly didn't bother to fact check the claim. I cant find any record other than His own claims that support this as fact.

Here is what actually happened

In February 1966 a chart from 1841 was found that marked the positions of the Mary Rose and several other wrecks. The charted position coincided with a trench (one of the scour pits) that had already been located by McKee's team, and a definite location was finally established at a position 3 km (1.9 mi) south of the entrance to Portsmouth Harbour (50°46′0″N 1°06′0″W) in water with a depth of 11 m (36 feet) at low tide.[96] Diving on the site began in 1966 and a sonar scan by Harold Edgerton in 1967–68 revealed some type of buried feature

No mention of George, and it sounds like they didn't need his help at all, they had a chart and a sonar return taken by Edgerton which pinpointed the wreck. George's claim they would never have found it without him is fanciful and that's putting it kindly.

Richard Theilmann, managed to convince the Naval Order of the United States, New York Commandery he was a decorated war hero, and was in contact with aliens.....
Who is Richard Theilmann?

But of course he wasnt. This field is rife with con artists who if they do a good job can convince the gullible of the most outrageous lies.

 

[marduk]

And yet you're happy to cite as substantial evidence an unsent and unverified memorandum from a Bishop giving a second hand account of another Bishop, who received a confession from an unnamed artist about what may or may not have been referring to the genuine Turin Shroud as 'cunningly painted'. Nothing to back it up, no documentation or any evidence of an inquest. Ignoring the scientific evidence that it most definitely isn't a painting. Very logical, scientific approach.

Right.

Historical documents are not as valid as channeled information from you.

You need help, man.

Or better meds.

 

[marduk]

I'd be very interested to hear what Jesus has to say about the Shroud. Surely he has an opinion.

"Hey, sweet linen, bud. How you guys doing with that whole be nice to each other for a change?"

 

[marduk]

Thank you for your comments. He doesn't appear to people in populated areas as it could cause a mass panic. Not particularly complicated, really. Not everyone thinks Adamski's photos and films are a hoax, so don't state it as proven fact. There were witnesses who gave testimonials, as others have mentioned on one of the Adamski threads. Besides which, there have been plenty of other sightings. Thanks for promoting my book by the way, very good of you.

The entity that killed everyone on earth except for Noah and his peeps is afraid of causing mass panic?

bwahahahahaha!

 

[mike]

The entity that killed everyone on earth except for Noah and his peeps is afraid of causing mass panic?

bwahahahahaha!

Its hilarious, god the guy who lit the blue touch paper and stood well clear of the big bang, who has a table reserved in perpetuity at the restaurant at the end of the universe. The Alpha and the Omega, tells George telepathically he wants to publicize his existence and directs him to a dark and lonely remote spot on Bodmin Moor so he can photograph his spaceship (the same one adamski photographed) and then at the last minute exclaims Ohh Eck, changes his mind about the publicity for fear of panic and does a no show.

In communication with the Spiritual Hierarchy, effectively the government of the universe,He was first awarded the accolade of Ascended Spiritual Master and has now been promoted to Supreme Spiritual Master.

But i think we have a clue here.

His wife Amanda had been incarnated for a special spiritual purpose but her intended karma had been ruined by suppressive people.

Notwithstanding karma is defined as :

The theory of karma as causality holds that (1) executed actions of an individual affects the individual and the life he or she lives

Karma is like dirty undies, if you look down and find skid marks in them, then it was you who put them there, not someone else.

But the phrase suppresive people is one we've heard before, coined by none other then elroy hubbard of scientology. SP's as they are called.

Suppressive Person - Wikipedia


I suspect George was once a scientologist which is where he heard this phrase, and like hubbard, figured he could pass off badly written science fiction as fact and make a quick buck from it.
Hubbard was also grandiosely delusional and credited himself with a long list of fictional accomplishments. I'm seeing a definite pattern forming here.

Anyway Ive sent his links and screen shots to a number of organizations including the mary rose museum, asking them if in their opinion the Supreme Spiritual Master was the person who discovered the ship, despite no mention in any official history's.

This should get interesting.

 

[marduk]

This should get interesting.

It should.

As you know, karma's a bitch.

 

[DROBNJAK]

Speaking of Adamski, his eyewitnesses have long been shown not to have witnessed his original contacts. That fact was publicized as early as the 1950s, in Jim Moseley's Saucer News.

Saucer News presents: the George Adamski Exposé | In Honor of Jim Moseley

Ray Stanford discussed Adamski's fakery in detail on our April 2 episode:

NOW PLAYING! April 2, 2017 — Ray Stanford | The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio

I am satisfied that George Admaski did not meet a Venusian in the California desert in 1952 — or ever.

I want Ray Stanford to be right about Adamski. But as Oscar Wilde said: “The truth is rarely pure and never simple.”

Here are two accounts, from credible independent witnesses, one from England and another from United States, who on separate occasions had seen and even photographed crafts exactly like Adamski's:

Encounter Over The Atlantic - Commander Graham Bethune Testimony

Stephen Darbishire, Lake District, England
Top ten UFO Sightings UK - Britain Explorer
1954 Caldbeck UFO Incident, page 1

 

[AlanValiant]

For those with an open mind on the Turin Shroud, these latest scientific findings are interesting:

Scientists have just found blood from a torture victim on the cloth used to 'bury Jesus'

 

[marduk]

For those with an open mind on the Turin Shroud, these latest scientific findings are interesting:

Scientists have just found blood from a torture victim on the cloth used to 'bury Jesus'

I don't even have to read that to be suspicious.

There could be blood on the shroud. It could have come from anywhere. Hell, maybe a priest nicked himself shaving and then handled it.

How could you say it was a torture victim?

So I read the article. It talks about ferritin/creatinine nanoparticles which is indicative of trauma.

What they are talking about is basically aerosolized blood spattering on the shroud.

How can you get this from wrapping it on a dead guy? I don't see how it could.

So I read the article this article references. What does it say?

Here's what it says:

TEM analyses show that the fiber is fully covered by creatinine nanoparticles, 20–100 nm in size, embedding small (2–6 nm) nanoparticles, made of defected ferrihydrite, typical of biologic ferritin cores. WAXS shows the presence of diffraction peaks of defected cellulose. Here we show how atomic resolution investigations unexpectedly discover a scenario of violence hidden at the nanoscale in the TS fiber and also suggest an explanation for the controversial results so far obtained. Indeed, a high level of creatinine and ferritin is related to patients suffering of strong polytrauma like torture. Hence, the presence of these biological nanoparticles found during our TEM experiments point a violent death for the man wrapped in the Turin shroud.

and

High levels of creatinine in the blood are observed in the case of strong trauma. There is a wide recent literature reporting on interaction between creatinine and ferritin in fatal accidents [41,42] or as a consequence of the rhabdomyolysis due to torture [43]. Indeed, De Abreu et al. report in [41] a study on acute kidney injury (AKI) after trauma, mostly in accidents involving cars and motorcycles, evidencing how AKI is secondary to severe crush injuries and rhabdomyolysis. In particular, the patients with AKI present a high level of creatinine and ferritin in the blood serum. High level of creatinine are also in the case reported by Schwartz et al [42] in the study of patients of emergency room with skeletal muscle trauma. Indeed, when muscle cells are destroyed as a consequence of a strong trauma, such as the torture, they release their content into the bloodstream as reported in [43]. One of the chemicals largely released is myoglobin [43]. The creatinine strongly binds to the iron nanoparticles [38] of the ferritin and this relationship is hence a signature of the occurrence of a strong polytrauma.

Which in itself is interesting. But all it means is that the material was at one time exposed to blood from a guy that had the crap beat out of him.

Which tended to happen a lot during medieval times.

What it doesn't say is that it re-dates the shroud at all, and it doesn't make any sense to me why a dead guy would spatter blood like this.

Unless they wrapped it around a guy that was alive, of course.

I don't know why they didn't carbon date the creatinine. It's got that nice CH3 group hanging off the N ring, after all.

If it were spattered with blood 2000 years ago that might be interesting. But even then, that wouldn't mean it was from Jesus. It would just mean it could be.

 

[mike]

For those with an open mind on the Turin Shroud, these latest scientific findings are interesting:

Scientists have just found blood from a torture victim on the cloth used to 'bury Jesus'

Back again George ?

 

[mike]

The Turin Shroud is a fake: Eminent historian claims it was one of 40 similar cloths which originated 1,300 years AFTER the crucifixion | Daily Mail Online

 

[mike]

Jesus’s Story is an Obvious Rehashing Of Numerous Previous Characters
Perhaps even more compelling is the story of Christ himself. As it turns out it’s not even remotely original. It is instead nothing more than a collection of bits and pieces from dozens of other stories that came long before. Here are some examples.

1. Asklepios healed the sick, raised the dead, and was known as the savior and redeemer.
2. Hercules was born of a divine father and mortal mother and was known as the savior of the world.
3. Dionysus was literally the “Son of God”, was born of a woman who had not had sex with a man, and was depicted riding a donkey. He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles, and was killed and resurrected, after which time he became immortal.
4. Osiris did the same things. He was born of a virgin, was considered the first true king of the people, and when he died he rose from the grave and went to heaven.
5. Osiris’s son, Horus, was known as the “light of the world”, “The good shepherd”, and “the lamb”. He was also referred to as, “The way, the truth, and the life.” His symbol was a cross-like symbol.
6. Mithra‘s birthday was celebrated on the 25th of December, his birth was witnessed by local shepherds who brought him gifts, had 12 disciples, and when he was done on earth he had a final meal before going up to heaven. On judgment day he’ll return to pass judgment on the living and the dead. The good will go to heaven, and the evil will die in a giant fire. His holiday is on Sunday (he’s the Sun God). His followers called themselves “brothers”, and their leaders “fathers”. They had baptism and a meal ritual where symbolic flesh and blood were eaten. Heaven was in the sky, and hell was below with demons and sinners.
7. Krishna had a miraculous conception that wise men were able to come to because they were guided by a star. After he was born an area ruler tried to have him found and killed. His parents were warned by a divine messenger, however, and they escaped and was met by shepherds. The boy grew up to be the mediator between God and man.
8. Buddha‘s mother was told by an angel that she’d give birth to a holy child destined to be a savior. As a child he teaches the priests in his temple about religion while his parents look for him. He starts his religious career at roughly 30 years of age and is said to have spoken to 12 disciples on his deathbed. One of the disciples is his favorite, and another is a traitor. He and his disciples abstain from wealth and travel around speaking in parables and metaphors. He called himself “the son of man” and was referred to as, “prophet”, “master”, and “Lord”. He healed the sick, cured the blind and deaf, and he walked on water. One of his disciples tried to walk on water as well but sunk because his faith wasn’t strong enough.
9. Apollonius of Tyana (a contemporary of Jesus) performed countless miracles (healing sick and crippled, restored sight, casted out demons, etc.) His birth was of a virgin, foretold by an angel. He knew scripture really well as a child. He was crucified, rose from the dead and appeared to his disciples to prove his power before going to heaven to sit at the right hand of the father. He was known as, “The Son of God”.

The problem, of course, is that these previous narratives existed hundreds to thousands of years before Jesus did.

The Bible is Fiction: A Collection Of Evidence

 

[Gene Steinberg]

After reading about Hercules, I wonder why they never asked the late muscle-bound actor, Steve Reeves, to portray Jesus at some time during his career.

Steve Reeves - Wikipedia

 

[mike]

Gives a whole new meaning to crossfit.

 

[AlanValiant]

Eau contraire.

Although, in this case, shooting fish in a barrel would be an understatement.

I think you were aiming for 'au contraire' here, Eau Contraire appears to be a kind of perfume.

The Turin Shroud is a fake: Eminent historian claims it was one of 40 similar cloths which originated 1,300 years AFTER the crucifixion | Daily Mail Online

Once again, The Paracast's answer to Sherlock Holmes settles the matter with two minutes of specious research. And you've even debunked the entire existence of Jesus Christ as well. How do you do it? It's a gift, almost paranormal in itself. How you don't have your own show yet is beyond me.

P. S. You have attempted to portray me as exploitative and mercenary, yet on another thread you have posted a free download to one of my books, which rather undermines your point.

 

[Ron Away]

 

[marduk]

I think you were aiming for 'au contraire' here, Eau Contraire appears to be a kind of perfume.



Once again, The Paracast's answer to Sherlock Holmes settles the matter with two minutes of specious research. And you've even debunked the entire existence of Jesus Christ as well. How do you do it? It's a gift, almost paranormal in itself. How you don't have your own show yet is beyond me.

P. S. You have attempted to portray me as exploitative and mercenary, yet on another thread you have posted a free download to one of my books, which rather undermines your point.

Stupid spellcheck.

I haven't attempted to portray you in any way.

What I have done is demonstrate that the evidence you put forth in no way directly or indirectly supports the shroud being associated with Jesus.

I don't believe I've ever linked to a book download. Can you point me to this post?

P.S. I have little doubt there was a historical figure (or figures) of which the mythology of Jesus was based upon. The mythology itself seems to be an aggregation of mithraism, egyptian, sumerian, and other cultures.

The figure is also interpreted very differently by Judaism and Islam, of course.